EPT[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 55
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monk
United States8476 Posts
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
On November 28 2010 06:39 Inori wrote: no offense but every single time I get on your stream and you play vs T with this strat it ends up with you failing for 2-3 times in a row and then ragequtting stream. You probably see other streams than me !? | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
On November 23 2010 08:05 kcdc wrote: You made a lot of small errors in those two replays that made them look like lopsided losses when in fact they were very close. First, go 13-gate and don't pylon scout. Supply before barracks and longer zealot build time has made 13-gate flat out better than pylon scouting and 14-gate. You'll have your gates and your warpgate research a few seconds earlier this way, and your economy will actually be slightly better. This your saying don't pylon scout then when would you scout? I was using this build alot till the stim and thor rush popped up heavily so I have just been going with 2 gate robo. So I am looking back in here to see what tweaks have been discovered. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
Is there actually a way to stop these attacks without losing straight up? I can usually deal with them easy enough on 1 base but they always attack right before you can transition into something decent and have an economy. Particularly on steppes or close positions temple, etc. PS: I haven't read the whole thread ofc, its over 50 pages long ;o | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
Is colossus+phenix better than colossus (damned vikings) into ht (damned ghost ..) ? | ||
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tocador
Brazil31 Posts
On November 29 2010 09:24 SaJa wrote: I would like to know what the best between colo or HT right to the first transition ? And when do I have exactly need to upgrade chargelot (I think in midgame my timings tech are not good). Is colossus+phenix better than colossus (damned vikings) into ht (damned ghost ..) ? If you went for ROBO to scout obviously going for colo is going to be faster. If you actually planned ahead and WANT to go HT, you can always research halucination and improvise scouting in place for obs and just go for charge + HT's. If i usually see fast medivacs i personally go HT. I find that chargelots often work vs fast medivacs, as that with fast vacs he can just produce 2 rounds of vikings and colo are dead. But if you see just mass infant with stim and you allready gotten a robo, go for the colo. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
(Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread, but it is massive. I read the first several pages, and the last few, but didn't spot posts particularly related to my question.) For a bit of background (you can stop reading now if you don't care; nothing important to my question is below), I am a very new player (I played SC1 (pre-Brood War), as well as Brood War, though not very seriously, and have just recently gotten back in to RTS with SC2), and I'm absolutely a Bronze level player. I have a ton of stuff to work on to move my gameplay to a higher level, but I'm trying to develop a basic playbook so I'm not thinking "Oh crap, what do I do now?" once my first Gateway/Core finishes. For the last week or two, I've been doing Four-gate in every matchup, and have had decent success with that. However, I wanted to broaden my horizons, since Four-gate doesn't help develop macro as much as I'd like (I understand it can be macro-oriented, but I don't think I'm good enough to play it that way; at least not yet.) So, my current playbook looks something like this: vP: Four-gate vT: FE vZ: Two-Gate/Robo I understand those certainly aren't the best strategies in all situations, but I'm trying to nail down one build per matchup that has a decent chance of winning most games (leaving it as much as possible to my poor play and/or my opponent's good play to lose it for me.) However, I'm loving the FE build, and I'm wondering if I can apply it against Zerg in some situations. (I'd also like to try it against Protoss, but I understand any PvP build needs to be able to beat a Four-Gate and FE doesn't seem like it can without some major mis-plays from the opponent.) Thank you. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
(I'd also like to try it against Protoss, but I understand any PvP build needs to be able to beat a Four-Gate and FE doesn't seem like it can without some major mis-plays from the opponent As a platnium player, I definitely think that 1gate FE is viable against Protoss on most of the maps. I find that if you push out with your first zealot and stalker and micro them well, you can put on enough early pressure to get out an expansion without much trouble. The key is both using chrono boost on your gateway to increase unit production and to keep on reinforcing the pressure at his front. Also, if the mirco is too tough, you can beat them with army composition. If you have enough energy to throw down 3 FFs, and they're done well, you can most likely delay the 4 gate push until your gateways can run through another cycle of unit spawns or your robo can kick in. Maps like Metalopolis are a bit tougher, since it is hard to FF such a large area. Hope this helps. | ||
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turbopasca1
Moldova41 Posts
No big surprise , every build has its ups and downs , i find it works good on long distance locations , but definitely very dangerous on close ones. | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
On November 29 2010 14:33 Inori wrote: lol, exactly right now yet again I just logged in, saw his stream, get on to watch it and I see Mini getting raped by Terran after going 1gate FE, again. You probably do see some other stream. I've seen lot of his streamlive too, and most of PvsT I've seen him wins :/ I've seen yesterday minigun dyin' vs marine/tanks early push (aswell) in close position on metalo. Minigun didn't manage it very well (he splitted his army and the Terran saw it, so he just killed his stalkers who had not zealots to tank with, and minigun didn't poke the terran to contain him). Shit happens. But you know, this build order just put you ahead from your opponent, of course it's harder to defend in early game against Terran rush doin' 1 gate+FE than 4 gates. However, it is a challenge which can make you win if you succeed. Also, many protoss playing on 1 bases can die vs Terran all-in. I mean, it's not because you do 1 gate+FE that you are invincible ~~ there will be always a stronger player than you, especially when you need to play perfectly at the begining to be safer a bit later. By the way, minigun is playing top players, which means that his build order works pretty well until you'll get his level  | ||
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Hane
France210 Posts
However, i'm a lot in trouble with terran FE builds into mmm+v+emp or thors +mass banshie marins push (or at least PF+gold expo)... Any advices for mid/late game vs terran, assuming he got the 'same' (mule ftw) macro ? | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
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Hane
France210 Posts
 Or maybe my timmings are bad ? When are you suppose to push / get your 3rd ? | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
Even if your phenix are dying, they are tanking long enough to defend the colossus the time to kill all those m&m shit. Of course, if you're making phenix, you probably need to hide them (cheese somehow), normally a Terran who makes vikings doesn't make ghost especially if he doesn't see any HT. | ||
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headies
United States63 Posts
Now with the discovery of the SCV as an offensive unit, I've been losing to a lot of marine/tank/scv all-ins that roflstomp it. Also been facing quite a few thor pushes that are almost impossible to stop unless you have a colossus or DT.. or VR(maybe?). If you think I'm wrong I'd love to see a replay of you holding something like that. | ||
Minigun
619 Posts
On November 29 2010 14:33 Inori wrote: lol, exactly right now yet again I just logged in, saw his stream, get on to watch it and I see Mini getting raped by Terran after going 1gate FE, again. You probably do see some other stream. Man, it's ridiculous that people expect you to play perfect, every game. Just because I lose, once or twice, doesn't mean the build isn't viable, I just did something wrong, whether it be bad scouting, wrong unit composition, getting supply blocked, not cutting enough probes when an all in is coming, etc, etc, etc. There is so much to account for. At high level play, you have to make VERY few mistakes to pull it off, but if I played perfect, it would hold every time. But it's okay, you don't have to use it  .Comments like these makes me wonder why I turn on the stream in the first place. | ||
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sechkie
United States334 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:33 sechkie wrote: I've been to scared to use this build since the thor repair rush became so popular >.< how does the timing hold up against this?? and what's the correct response? since it's hard to scout it coming since we have a later observer. (Not sure if its been posted) This problem has been fixed previewsly. Just read the previews pages .. About scv all-in => IT IS NOT ALL-IN !! Terran got the MULEs !!! ^^ | ||
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