EPTTLDR: zealot phoenix, NOT stalker
[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 51
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
TLDR: zealot phoenix, NOT stalker | ||
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lao
United States33 Posts
On November 13 2010 14:35 Daniel C wrote: How to hold off marine/banshee/raven with 1 gate FE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ldWtVIPbdw&feature=player_embedded TLDR: zealot phoenix, NOT stalker what if he doesnt go for the hellion drop? just straight into raven + 3 banshees + marines? i don't know if your chargelot timing would hold. but in general, this builds upon kcdc's strat to form this: -if scout probe can rule out 6 rax marine all in or some other type of super super early cheese, continue. if not, do a safe one base, build sentries get ready to FF ramp, expand when youre safe, etc. -1gate FE, poke with zealot + stalker, if you see marauders and rax with tech labs, pull back, build a second gas, get 4 gateways and a healthy mix of sentries, prepare for a 3rax. if theres a bunker and looks like no gas is being spent on rax stuff, stay on 1 gas, only get 1 sentry, go robo + 2 more gates, get some stalkers to defend drops with, and build obs -defend drops or pokes until obs can scout what he's doing. if he's got a tech lab on the port, go with the phoenix/chargelot combo, stop all stalker production. if hes got a techlab on the fact or you see an armory, start chronoing out immortals and zealot/sentry. not sure if charge is worth it here. if he's expanding or going heavy rax, macro safely, go colossi or templar or whatever. i think that about sums up the most popular terran builds. the problems i see though are: 1) if your obs gets there and he went straight to raven + 3 banshees + marines, you wont have time for charge and everything. 2) if your obs gets there and he went straight for thor, not sure if you can get immortals out in time. i think the key may be to make the decision of whether to build the robo or pure gateways immediately after scouting the front. | ||
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AlexXx
United States58 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
Once the toss' expand is pomping for a while, and you got all what you need to be as strong as the Terran, we all know how to defend against his push with some adaptation... Here the point is : how to resist to EARLY pressure right after making 1 gate FE. It means, before 9-10min of game. | ||
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Gradius
United States112 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-166377.jpg) Feel free to offer any other advice, etc. Thank you in advance. | ||
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lao
United States33 Posts
On November 17 2010 09:44 Gradius wrote: Question: what do you guys do when the Terran gets his own fast-expansion and basically out-produces you in everything? I don't feel confident that some sort of early warp-gate rush would be able to punish him for his expo. What do you guys think? Feel free to offer any other advice, etc. Thank you in advance. well this was clearly a custom game. the terran was just way better than you. this looks like about a 700 diamond vs. a platinum player. after scouting mass marines, you never built a single sentry. you built a robo and didnt build an observer until past 10 mins, you never transferred probes, in fact, doesnt look like you even built probes out of your expansion nexus. in any case, the point is you shouldnt have fallen behind. against someone of equal skill, this terran with that marine ghost push at ~11min would have gotten demolished. | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
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Gradius
United States112 Posts
On November 17 2010 12:09 lao wrote:well this was clearly a custom game. the terran was just way better than you. this looks like about a 700 diamond vs. a platinum player. after scouting mass marines, you never built a single sentry. you built a robo and didnt build an observer until past 10 mins, you never transferred probes, in fact, doesnt look like you even built probes out of your expansion nexus. in any case, the point is you shouldnt have fallen behind. against someone of equal skill, this terran with that marine ghost push at ~11min would have gotten demolished. Thanks for the sage advice, I'll keep it in mind: "be more skilled than your opponent next time". Yeah, my skills definitely aren't up to par since I haven't played in a while, but I wanted to hear what people thought of this opening from Terran, not elitist rank nonsense (I'm ahead of him in diamond not that it makes any difference). Also, I definitely transferred probes and built them out of my expo. | ||
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sechkie
United States334 Posts
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lao
United States33 Posts
On November 18 2010 08:30 Gradius wrote: Thanks for the sage advice, I'll keep it in mind: "be more skilled than your opponent next time". Yeah, my skills definitely aren't up to par since I haven't played in a while, but I wanted to hear what people thought of this opening from Terran, not elitist rank nonsense (I'm ahead of him in diamond not that it makes any difference). Also, I definitely transferred probes and built them out of my expo. i don't know why you're upset or feel insulted. you played with not just worse mechanics than your opponent, but so much worse that no conclusion re: the overall strategy can be made from the results. i'd like to point out that i said nothing close to "be more skilled than your opponent." don't put words in my mouth please. it'd be more accurate to say my answer is "be not too much worse than your opponent." | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
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kaztah
Norway1221 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:51 SaJa wrote: How many gates we should get on 2 bases ? How many with 3 bases ? How many max with b4 to spend properly our economy ? Load up a game vs a very easy computer, macro up to 2 bases and try it out, proceed to macro up to three bases and try it out. It shouldn't take you more then a few minutes to find out how much you can support and when you can support it fully. | ||
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Legion710
Canada423 Posts
I am a 2000 diamond Brotoss and I just hit a huge wall (at least versus my 2400 practice partner). It seems I can not handle a simple mm push when my FE is almost done (if I don't FE I simply lose because he does, and it's a strategy that is supposed to work and that I'm supposed to pin down anyways). I simply cannot figure how I can survive his first stim conc shell push with around 5 marauders and 2 marines... By that time I will have a sentry, one or two zealot and two or three stalkers, which is basically a joke vs conc shell and stim... Now I go and watch some pro replays but I never see this situation exactly and I really don't know why, because this just seems so imba to me. I either see the terran try to push with only marines and 1 marauder, which obviously fails, or him simply not attacking at all. I don't understand why pros would be less agressive, because that push is hell. I have lost about 25 games in a row against this and I'm about to throw my monitor out of the window. I'd provide some replays but I'm at work. | ||
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kyarisan
United States347 Posts
with more specific information (as well as a replay) you will get an answer, otherwise there's nothing that can be said. | ||
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Legion710
Canada423 Posts
And sentry is pretty crucial... I'm gonna disregard that comment. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On November 19 2010 04:40 Legion710 wrote: Seems I can't create a new topic yet, so I'll post here. I am a 2000 diamond Brotoss and I just hit a huge wall (at least versus my 2400 practice partner). It seems I can not handle a simple mm push when my FE is almost done (if I don't FE I simply lose because he does, and it's a strategy that is supposed to work and that I'm supposed to pin down anyways). I simply cannot figure how I can survive his first stim conc shell push with around 5 marauders and 2 marines... By that time I will have a sentry, one or two zealot and two or three stalkers, which is basically a joke vs conc shell and stim... Now I go and watch some pro replays but I never see this situation exactly and I really don't know why, because this just seems so imba to me. I either see the terran try to push with only marines and 1 marauder, which obviously fails, or him simply not attacking at all. I don't understand why pros would be less agressive, because that push is hell. I have lost about 25 games in a row against this and I'm about to throw my monitor out of the window. I'd provide some replays but I'm at work. The build to hold this off is as follows: cut probes at 20 20 stalker 20 warpgate research 22 nexus 22 pylon 22 zealot resume probe production 25 gate 25 gate 25 gate Just let your nexus take damage while you camp on top of your ramp waiting for your 4 gates to finish. Warp in a round of 4 units and you have a total of 7 units to defend. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
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lao
United States33 Posts
On November 19 2010 04:40 Legion710 wrote: Seems I can't create a new topic yet, so I'll post here. I am a 2000 diamond Brotoss and I just hit a huge wall (at least versus my 2400 practice partner). It seems I can not handle a simple mm push when my FE is almost done (if I don't FE I simply lose because he does, and it's a strategy that is supposed to work and that I'm supposed to pin down anyways). I simply cannot figure how I can survive his first stim conc shell push with around 5 marauders and 2 marines... By that time I will have a sentry, one or two zealot and two or three stalkers, which is basically a joke vs conc shell and stim... Now I go and watch some pro replays but I never see this situation exactly and I really don't know why, because this just seems so imba to me. I either see the terran try to push with only marines and 1 marauder, which obviously fails, or him simply not attacking at all. I don't understand why pros would be less agressive, because that push is hell. I have lost about 25 games in a row against this and I'm about to throw my monitor out of the window. I'd provide some replays but I'm at work. he gets both stim and conc shell? are you poking with your initial zealot + stalker (+stalker #2 potentially)? it sounds like he makes 2 marines out of the first rax, then when the second is finished, builds tech labs on both immediately, then double-researches and starts making marauders? if you're poking with your first zealot and stalker, you will kill the two marines no problem and force SCVs to be pulled. | ||
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