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Diamond Zerg 400 here. i'm at work so no replay for now.
First of all I scout very early on short rush distance map (9 drone max and ovie on 9) to prevent any cheese and to adapt for 2 gates rushes.
If I see one gate cybercore (no chrono boost on Zealot), I usually go 14 pool, 16 hatch.
Otherwise, 15 gas, 15 pool into 20ish expand.
First 100 gas --> ling speed
Second queen right after the first one finishes. Creep tumor when first queen is transfered to the nat. Depending on the map, second creep tumor at the nat.
Second 100 gas --> Lair tech + second extractor
Lair is done --> Hydra den (I pump 4-5 hydras max)
I sacc an overlord to see which tech he goes into (let's assume this is 4 gate push)
I drone whore until roughly the 36 supply mark with only 2 zerglings for scouting (1 in front of his ramp, one at the Zel Naga). I poke around to see his army composition (zealot heavy --> more spine, stalker heavy --> more lings).
At roughly 36 supply, I put between 3-5 spine and start doing maaaaaass lings.
I put 10-15 of them hidden to see if I can backstab as he leaves his base. You can do that and still be safe as he is forced to warp inside his base to protect and buy you time.
Let him engage the spine crawlers before engage your lings. You want the spine to soak up the damages. Retreat cautiously when he forcefield.
You shoud have between 20 and 30 lings and more on the way when he pushed (and please avoid being supply cap like me when he pushes). Sometimes you can end the game right here with counterattack with your remaining/hatching lings.
After the push you should have several lings left, rouglhy 28-30 drones (he should have 22-24) and 2 bases.
The rest is up to you. Personaly I immediatly expand, put infestation pit and rush tier 3 for the inevitable collosi. But I start wondering if a mutalisk tech switch could take them offguard. Meaning spire instead of hydra den. Any thoughts on that fellow zergs and protoss?
PS : I become suspicious if the push doen't not come aroud the 45-50 supply mark. It could be weird 4 gate / 2 collossi rush. So I scout again to be sure.
PS 2 : Some 4 gates pushes can happen really soon and take you off guard. I think particularly about zealot/sentry pushes. So be ready to put spines/pump lings. You will have to stall until spines are done.
Hope this helps.
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4 gates are really hard to defend, but with good map coverage it can be done.
As long as you have a decent army, you won't be in trouble IF (and this is a big if) you can kill the proxy pylon before its done.
Also any kind of faster aggression, since you can have 4-ish roaches when they still only have a zealot or 2 if there really trying to get the 4 gates fast.
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On close maps like steppes would it be a viable option to take the gold mineral deposit instead of your natural to hide your expansion. I've had this work against numerous opponents who only found my 2nd expansion late in the game after I had secured my natural.
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On August 10 2010 02:09 Moa wrote:
On close maps like steppes would it be a viable option to take the gold mineral deposit instead of your natural to hide your expansion. I've had this work against numerous opponents who only found my 2nd expansion late in the game after I had secured my natural.
this is not viable at high level, you should never base a stragey on an opponent making a mistake
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If you see 1 gate, core on the way, and gas on the way, automatically assume a 4 gate and prepare accordingly. Early expo is hard to defend without spines, so beware.
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On August 09 2010 16:17 altairian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 07:22 Jermstuddog wrote:
I really hate this perception that Roaches suck in ZvP.
1 Roach barely loses to 1 Stalker.
Roaches are 75/25 Stalkers are 125/50.
While they deal significantly less damage at a significantly smaller range than hydras, they cause you to have a double-line reducing the effectiveness of colossi.
Yes, Roaches take 4(+1) more damage than hydras do from stalkers, but they also cost half the gas and almost 2x as much HP.
Roaches DO NOT SUCK in ZvP unless you are 200/200 Yeah they do. Against pure stalkers, with speed and on creep, roaches do well. Add in zealots and sentries, and the story changes a lot. Speedlings are a lot harder for protoss to deal with than roaches, even though zealots are so strong against zerglings, with speed it becomes very difficult to manage fighting speedlings unless you've created a situation that they're forced to engage.
Are you kidding? How can you claim roaches work good against stalkers but bad against zlots and opposite for lings? Roaches work great against everything you can build from gateways, ESPECIALLY zealots. I honestly have never lost a game where I've had 100pop+ and mostly roach army and opponent has only had gateways. Roaches are the ultimate counter for gateway units since they can't be countered with HTs and sentries as much as hydras can. I know hydras do sick dps, but roachswarm is often only stoppable by robo units.
And all that with upgraded roaches on creep.
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So, as far as a basic build order goes, if you scout gate-gas, it's optimal to throw down your expansion as soon as possible? I'd love to get a nice standard opening which can transition smoothly into either early roaches (to hold off two-gate pressure) or a quick expansion to hold off a 4-gate or immortal push or the like,
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i think blings are a good/viable option, since it's not insanely high/expensive tech. and they do splash, so 'tis good. I think hydra/ling is also a very viable option.
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EPT
