EPTim a zerg player and infestors are quite fine.
personally i think idra could have micro'd a bit better during the encounter.
[D] Infestor's Neural Parasite - Page 2
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EvasivE
United States70 Posts
im a zerg player and infestors are quite fine. personally i think idra could have micro'd a bit better during the encounter. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
If you don't use NP, and instead only use FG and IT, you will lose some battles which you could have won with NP. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
Even after costing 100 energy, requiring research to use, and being a channeled spell that completely disables the Infestor and leaves it vulnerable in the middle of battle, Blizzard still thought this ability needed a time limit? When Dark Archons could cast it as an instant, permanent, unlimited effect with relative impunity? | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
figq wrote: I have run tests in the unit tester using armies of equal resources/food size with or without infestors, and using the energy of the infestors for different spells (vs the same well balanced Protoss and Terran armies). The results were that as long as the enemy army has usable composition for the spell, NP>FG>IT energy-wise (i.e. using 4 ITs instead of 1 NP is worse, when there's a massive unit like colossus). So NP is not useless, and infestors are not useless. NP is useful enough for people to want to research it. It's only a waste if the enemy doesn't have big strong units. When you ran the tests in the unit tester, did you try to focus fire the infestor? In real scenarios infestors will be focus fired on sight making hit and run FG and IT more attractive. | ||
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onionchowder
United States137 Posts
Dark Archon's mind control drained all of their shields, rendering them vulnerable just as the Infestor's does. Also, in most cases, DA's other abilities were not that useful. Perhaps most importantly, the DA cost much more to build and was higher up the tech tree. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
Also, even though MC drained Dark Archons shields, they could still move away/get picked up by shuttles after casting. I'll concede on your last point though, Infestors are obviously lower on the tech tree, but then again they need to research Neural Parasite (I don't remember whether or not DA Mind Control was a research... :/) | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
I thought they reversed the change from this. Is it still 15 seconds? | ||
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
Neural Parasite is a fantastic spell under the right situations, even with the measly 15 sec duration it now has. That said, I've been reluctant to research it ever since the nerf. The value of NP is not so much being able to use the controlled unit to make attacks, but being able to move it into a more vulnerable position so the rest of your army can kill it. It is still a great spell to cast on big expensive units. Permanent Neural Parasite was ridiculously powerful, especially against Battle Cruisers in ZvT. To add insult to injury the BCs still continued to eat up the terran's supply! | ||
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Neuuubeh
138 Posts
On July 30 2010 07:47 EnderCN wrote: The ability is fine the way it is, compare it to the closest ability to it which is Graviton Beam and it comes out as the superior ability already. What the hell does it have to do with Graviton beam??? An ability by the best anti air unit in the game that makes it also viable for getting key ground units vs a 15 secs long spell duration off a pure caster unit? I really hope and think Blizzard will increase the duration on this. 30 secs is my guess  . The way it is now doesnt really make it viable... | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On July 30 2010 11:57 Batch wrote: You are right, if the enemy is able to focus fire, then hit and run FG/ITs is better. The range of NP is quite long though - 9(+5 after cast). So if you use your main army to intimidate / block, you still have good odds vs most unit compositions. Alternately, there's burrowed casting.When you ran the tests in the unit tester, did you try to focus fire the infestor? In real scenarios infestors will be focus fired on sight making hit and run FG and IT more attractive. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
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brinbran
United States52 Posts
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
On July 30 2010 09:10 st3roids wrote: Yea so idra and the others are nublets as well , mr smartass u obviously dont play zerg cause you would know going ruptors is good only if u are 100% certain for opponets build cause they huge risk factor due to the minerals required ause u wont be able to have much ground amry to support vs a mmm push. . IdrA didn't know TLO had BCs in time to counter with corrupters cause his scouting was lacking. And yeah I would have microd better then IdrA in those battles where he lost all his hydra. I played 400 games with Zerg at plat/diamond. The point is you ARE 100% certain that terran goes BCs. What do you not understand about this? If you see 2-3 starports with techlab and reactor thing - all you need is a spire (thats only 200/200). It takes ages to build a BC force, you have all the time in the world to prepare with a spire if your scouting is half decent. Then you do not build corrupters until you see how many BCs he has got and moves out towards you. Make a perimeter around his base with OLs to know when. Then you just instantly make as many corrupters as you need and there is NO risk at all to over produce corrupters. BCs are slow so you will have your corrupters in time on almost all maps except maybe scrapyard. Or bad positions on LT, meta. I would hardly call 200/200 investment a risk when he has already wasted more on ports, labs, reactor. But I would also recommend when seeing him building up a BC force to get flyer armor and get a few corrupters to save energy for corruption as that really helps you out. If he goes for the 20 BC army I'd recommend infestors in your mix as well as yamato can decimate your corrupter force. Should it happen that you actually produce to many corrupters and have 1-5 left after killing off the BCs you can make them to BL. | ||
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Truffy
United States95 Posts
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
On July 30 2010 18:53 Truffy wrote: After the reduction to 15 second NP I tried it in 3-4 games (diamond league p2 of the beta) and found it absolutely worthless. Since then I've yet to research it. Really 15 seconds doesn't seem like enough. At least two of the games the 15 second time was the difference between a win and a loss. Is 12 seconds is even worse fyi to all those saying is fine , is absolute crap | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
On July 30 2010 09:46 EvasivE wrote: lets be real though, cost/time/risk involved in fast teching to cruisers compared to playing it safe as a zerg and mass macroing. TLO won the match and it wasnt because infestors need to be buffed. im a zerg player and infestors are quite fine. personally i think idra could have micro'd a bit better during the encounter. you obviously not playing zerg and not seeing the same game cause terran in that game was in safe mode turling wallin whereas zerg had full map control. micro better ofl he litterally np almost all bcs and fyi for tlo doing better macroing that idra i mean srsly lol what else will you think trying to justify a nerf that shouldnt even been there , np as it is not worth the resources neither the energy required . and infestors atm vs ghosts and templars are a joke | ||
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LolnoobInsanity
United States183 Posts
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
What the hell does it have to do with Graviton beam??? An ability by the best anti air unit in the game that makes it also viable for getting key ground units vs a 15 secs long spell duration off a pure caster unit? Yes an ability that immobilizes the phoenix and another unit and stops the unit from attacking being compared to an ability that immobilizes the infestor and another unit but the unit attacks under the infestor control. What could I be thinking comparing the two.... Infestors could completely lose NP and still be a unit I would build almost every game. NP needs to be strong enough to make it worth researching and that is about it and I feel that it is strong enough now. It was certainly overpowered when it never broke. Maybe there is a happier medium between the two extremes and I'd agree with the one posters suggestion of better energy regen while burrowed for infestors. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
Yea so idra and the others are nublets as well , mr smartass u obviously dont play zerg cause you would know going ruptors is good only if u are 100% certain for opponets build cause they huge risk factor due to the minerals required ause u wont be able to have much ground amry to support vs a mmm push. I'm not sure what you're saying... you shouldn't go corruptors unless you scout? You could say that for any unit past Zerglings.As a Zerg player, the last thing I'm afraid of while in Lair tech or above is a MMM push. Banelings, infestors (for FG), hydras... I'm pretty sure I'll come out on top if I haven't been asleep or AFK all game. Plus, for those 3 things, gas is the limiting resource (or maybe larvae for enough zerglings and banelings depending on how early we're talking, but then he doesn't have medivacs either), not minerals, so overspending on minerals probably won't affect my ability to repel MMM. Regardless is a infestor thing thread and no Np doesnt cut it much vs big units anymore cause obviously none will np a smaller unit . I agree that neural parasite is way less useful now. The only way I could imagine getting my research and energy's worth is on thors with cannons or BCs with yamato. Maybe on Ravens too, just to waste their energy/remove detection. It went from a reliable spell to something really situational, which is a shame.also infestors are nearly usless now cause they cant shoot like ghost once out of mana neither can tranform to archons I'm okay with this -- not every spellcaster needs an attack. High templar and ravens don't have an attack -- do you think they suck too?Ofc this was due to have perma np a unit b4 but right now is sup bar vs ghosts and Ht's I doubt neural parasite has anything to do with infestors having an attack or not. | ||
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
On July 30 2010 22:27 st3roids wrote: you obviously not playing zerg and not seeing the same game cause terran in that game was in safe mode turling wallin whereas zerg had full map control. micro better ofl he litterally np almost all bcs and fyi for tlo doing better macroing that idra i mean srsly lol what else will you think trying to justify a nerf that shouldnt even been there , np as it is not worth the resources neither the energy required . and infestors atm vs ghosts and templars are a joke Here is a replay for you. Its not showing any good use of NP. But it shows how to deal with "turtling" T going BCs. However in this game T does in fact stay even with Z on bases almost whole game so turtling might not be the right word but the fact tat he is on more bases means he has way stronger eco then a 1-2 base terran would. vs a 1-2 base turtling terran doing it like dimaga did would tip it way way more in Zs favor. dimaga (z) vs jinro(t) http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/34672 I also think investing 150/150 in NP when dimaga did have a few infestors out could be of good use for him. NPing a few BCs in one of those battles and yamato his own units. So post a replay where it doesn't work for you or stop your trolling | ||
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