|
On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/.
|
On July 12 2010 23:33 Zoltan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/.
i think he's saying when a person chooses random in a tourney they should be required at game start to state their race accurately... not saying i agree but that's what he's saying
|
Open with a factory opening. You don't have to go 1/1/1 (actually vs terran or protoss this can put you at a disadvantage). I would not play multiple barracks ever (it's pretty bad vs any race but especially vs terran you're gonna be quite behind). If you want to play super safe, scout while making your depot. Yes, a lot of random players like to cheese because it's even harder to predict and counter. It's very possible to lose to that stuff just by bad luck. More times than not you'll be ok though.
|
I feel the 9/10 rax, 10 ref build works best on this occasion. I scout with my 11th scv after orbital command, and grab a reaper for D, if i see an opening then i go straight for a 2nd reaper.
Just keep level headed and expect ANYTHING. Once you know what he is playing, look for his angle.
|
I've been using the same build against all and its been pretty effective. Basically, a 2 rax to seige tank build. Followed by a few medivacs + vikings. I basically push out with my first 4-6 marauders(conc shell done, stim on the way). So far its been very effective against against all races. You probably will lose to mass lings or void rush though if not scouted.
|
Well... I am pretty sure that opening 10 Depot, 12 Rax, 13 Refinery, 15 Orbital, Marine is ideal vs every race. If you scout even as late as your Depot SCV, you will still know in plenty of time, even on a 4 player map.
His scout will get to your base sooner or later, and if not, just throw down your Factory at 100 gas and hang out for another 5 seconds it takes to enter the 4th base.
|
On July 12 2010 23:33 Zoltan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/.
I am saying that random enables them to know what race you are while you are blind to who they are. There should be no benifit to just selecting random.
When you choose random it should show what was selected at the load screen, still enabling a person to let the computer choose but not giving and advantage.
|
On July 13 2010 02:53 Sleight wrote:
Well... I am pretty sure that opening 10 Depot, 12 Rax, 13 Refinery, 15 Orbital, Marine is ideal vs every race. If you scout even as late as your Depot SCV, you will still know in plenty of time, even on a 4 player map.
His scout will get to your base sooner or later, and if not, just throw down your Factory at 100 gas and hang out for another 5 seconds it takes to enter the 4th base.
Yep ! All my BOs start by this very conventional recipe, but it's just after the orbital I do something very different for each race. So its ok with scouting earlier. If I send my 8 or 9 SCV instead of depot SCV I can have the time to see all the pos before spending money for the key building.
But there is another problem now :D
The placement of my firts building is really different depending on whether I play vs Z, P or T.
vs Z I use only big buildings to wall (often at the bottom of the ramp) while vs T I don't use wall at all.
So vs RANDOM, If I choose to use the "standard" wall (supply/barrack/supply) it mean I could not do the BO you mentioned before, and it mean I could die to zerg too.
If I chose to prevent Zerg, I have to place my supply anywhere, but my barrack on the ramp and wait for my scv to find my opponent to see what im gonna do (facto or barrack), which i find quite annoying (despite the fact you have to put down an additional supply to correctly finish the wall).
|
I would do the standard economic opening supply/rack/orbital/gas and go with 1/1/1 (1/1 if you dont like starports (Darn 2 base mutaling sometimes i randomly go ebay 2 fact thor and get a planetary fortress/turrets...when the mutaling shows up...FU!!)). Do a Baneling safe wall off, with second depot at the location which completes a double wall when you add your fact. By now you have scouting info. +theres no need to wall at the bottom of your ramp.
If you have a feeling of unease then get a reactor on the barrack since the right amount rines or hellions or vikings can pretty much hold out against everything thrown at you early on.
imo if all 3 races are balanced then random is tinyly imba. : D which is fine : D Though i feel BMed when I play vs random...tho only because players don't random in BW...but this is not BW right?
: D
|
On July 12 2010 23:33 Zoltan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/.
He's saying that picking random gives an advantage because they have an up on you without you knowing their race
|
As a random player myself, if I go up against another random player I immediately send out a gatherer to find out what my opponent's race is before choosing my own tech path. If I random as Terran, going for a standard 1/1/1 build is almost always my initial tech choice but I will opt out of fast Starport if I see my opponent doing something like quick banelings or a zealot pump.
|
Wow, saying 1/1/1 for every random game is a bit limited. It's a good balanced build but thats like saying 1/1/1 is good against all races and all builds.
The key moments of a TvX is the beginning. Thus I said 10rax10ref because it gets a rax up quick for whatever early harass may be. Past that, it just depends who/what you're up against after you scout. Just scout early and put a little bit more effort into early D, then if he went for an expo, use your early D to be Early O =D
|
Start scouting early while moving into a 1/1/1 build until im sure of what strategy my opponent has chosen.
|
I'm almost sure i've seen louder sending hist 6th scv's right away to scout.
I've also been doing it, it does delay you but at least if they are Zerg you have the information do make rax/rax or rax/factory to stop banelings.
and if you can or like, you can do a proxy rax at 9/10 to cheese him with reaper, or go for a bunker at his ramp
|
On July 13 2010 03:06 Competent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 23:33 Zoltan wrote:On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/. I am saying that random enables them to know what race you are while you are blind to who they are. There should be no benifit to just selecting random. When you choose random it should show what was selected at the load screen, still enabling a person to let the computer choose but not giving and advantage.
There's an advantage to having to practice nine matchups? Do tell.
|
Step 1: scout
Step 2: beat them because you're so much better.
|
Being skilled enough to be competent in all 9 match ups should grant you the advantage of having a one up against players who pick and can only play one race. I don't understand how that is BM. It shows that if you truly are skilled enough to play all match ups equally, than you are the more versatile player and deserve the advantage.
The reason why no one played random in BW was because it was impossible to remember the build orders fluently in all 9 match ups without getting confused. It's a little bit easier in SC2 just because it's a newer game with more opportunities for experimenting.
EDIT: The idea of showing a player's race who picks random at the load screen is absolutely RIDICULOUS. As the game progresses and build orders become more refined, the amount of random players will slowly start declining naturally.
|
On July 13 2010 11:39 kidcrash wrote:
The idea of showing a player's race who picks random at the load screen is absolutely RIDICULOUS. As the game progresses and build orders become more refined, the amount of random players will slowly start declining naturally.
Agreed on the first point. On the second, what makes you think that they will decline? I don't see that build orders are correlated to people choosing random.
|
The best advise has already been said here. Early scouting. As one poster suggested, get the scout before or just as your rax finishes. This can't leave them too much time, pending a 'cheese' play, to do any more than you are? I mean, if they do go 'cheese', you have the opportunity to wall off whilst scouting. If you don't really care about 'cheese' play, then do what you do. Either way, finding them early and getting as much info as possible is always the best advice versus any random. Except TLO, because you never know what he's going to do, even if you scout.<Mildly kidding on this last sentence btw.
|
On July 13 2010 10:12 Darthturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 03:06 Competent wrote:On July 12 2010 23:33 Zoltan wrote:On July 12 2010 23:29 Competent wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, there should be no element of suprise because you want to choose random, it is an unfair advantage that random people obtain that us "Choosers" do not receive.
I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying that random has an inherant advantage because they didnt pick their race? Or are you saying that you want to pick random and that takes away the element of surprise? I keep reading the sentence and it makes less and less sense =/. I am saying that random enables them to know what race you are while you are blind to who they are. There should be no benifit to just selecting random. When you choose random it should show what was selected at the load screen, still enabling a person to let the computer choose but not giving and advantage. There's an advantage to having to practice nine matchups? Do tell.
terran - terran
terran - zerg
terran - protoss
zerg - zerg
zerg - protoss
protoss - protoss
only 6 brah, it's k.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
