EPTPvP - How to stop 2gate proxy rush? - Page 2
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MolestedRabbit
17 Posts
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Deleted User 55994
949 Posts
really simple! why forge when you can just match the gateway count and win... | ||
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BettyNyah
10 Posts
On June 08 2010 21:35 faction123 wrote: if you 2gate against 2gate proxy you will win 100% of the time really simple! why forge when you can just match the gateway count and win... 2gating immediately when you see it. Yes you will win every time. But if you start standard 12gate/gas, then see it, you will not have your gates finished before his and will be behind on your army. Also, 2gating against a 2gate proxy can possibly come to a stalemate which will leave you contained quite well on some maps. Putting an early cannon down with your gates will halt any aggression that your opponent will put out, then you will be able to take advantage of the weakness of his economy as he lost quite a bit sending that probe out so early. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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scDeluX
Canada1341 Posts
If you scout after gate on a large map IE Blistering. --> go forge or your dead (no cronoboost you will lose) One cannon or two if game gets long enough in your mineral if the best defense. Send you zealot in his mineral lines while teching and its gg. On smaller maps you cant try to out-zealot him since you'll scout him earlier and with your probes and some micro you can hold it off. That being said, I believe that the current state of any kind of 2 gates with crono is very strong. | ||
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Rampager
Australia1007 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
If you can't defend against 2gate Zealots by getting your own 2gate Zealots (because they're too slow) then do this: stop all Probe production, cancel gas if it's still building or take Probes off gas if they're mining, build a Forge to completely block your ramp, use all boosts on Gateway to build Zealots (make sure they're rallied toward your ramp, not toward the inside of your base), start a Cannon as soon as Forge finishes. If all your Zealots die and he's breaking down your wall, build more buildings to fortify your wall and keep making Zealots. On Blistering, your second Pylon should be near your rocks, anticipating having to build a Cannon there to keep Zealots off your rocks (which will still be useful even if he gets Stalkers/Sentries to break the rocks). | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Powster
United States650 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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Nitron
Singapore177 Posts
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On June 08 2010 23:26 Liquid`NonY wrote: In my experience, Protoss needs to 10gate on 2 player maps. I don't see how a 12gate or 13gate defends against a proxy 10pylon 10gate 10gate. And Protoss ought to be blocking their ramp with their first Pylon and Gateway against P/Z. If you can't defend against 2gate Zealots by getting your own 2gate Zealots (because they're too slow) then do this: stop all Probe production, cancel gas if it's still building or take Probes off gas if they're mining, build a Forge to completely block your ramp, use all boosts on Gateway to build Zealots (make sure they're rallied toward your ramp, not toward the inside of your base), start a Cannon as soon as Forge finishes. If all your Zealots die and he's breaking down your wall, build more buildings to fortify your wall and keep making Zealots. On Blistering, your second Pylon should be near your rocks, anticipating having to build a Cannon there to keep Zealots off your rocks (which will still be useful even if he gets Stalkers/Sentries to break the rocks). Yeah, you definitely have to wall. If you can wall, even if you have to keep building structures while yours are being razed, once you wall and get that cannon up, the proxy has failed. | ||
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Deltawolf
United States105 Posts
 So at that point they either A) Stubbornly continue their efforts and lose or B) Give up, make a forge, and try to tech to void at their base. So Immediately just take out pylons while your probe scouts their base once you overcome the cheese, but don't worry so much about the gateways because you want to break in their base BEFORE they turtle. You can continue to pump if a probe comes back to repower them. If they aren't turtled up yet, then you can rush and win. If they turtle up, you have already outteched them by having your cyber up, and they wasted all their money on the forge.So you just use your advantage and beat them to the punch. Tadddaaaa. At least works in platinum league, however in the higher levels of play you may see differences in the approach that make it harder to defend? dunno. | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
And if you are making anything more than an extra forge and 2 cannons you are actually going to be behind economically and techwise. I know you golds and plats might not understand this, but its the truth. Considering you're going to have a forge and 2 cannons while the 2gateing toss could have the same mineral investment into a gas and core. And how is it "GG" for his proxy? If you go forge cannons instead of more zealots he basically got away with it. Yes he lost mining time, but until he losses his proxy its not a lose. He lost say 50 minerals in delayed mining time, but you lose 150+150 forge cannon minimum. and a 250 mineral differential is a huge difference that early, u can either get outexpoed or teched. And YES static d that early is basically a waste. Please don't even try to argue that. If i could for a p to waste 450 minerals on cannons and a forge before trying to tech for 0 punishment(except sending an early probe and little mining time) i would do it every game. Maybe you should try out your strats in high level competition before offering poor advice. Just the fact that you are suggesting that you even need to scout with a phoenix so soon after a cheese shows me how little you probably know about strategy. You really shouldn't need to have to scout that soon after a 2 gate. | ||
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Cerion
213 Posts
I also scout after pylon, 12 gate -> scout is just asking for trouble given the high proportion of cheesy players on ladder | ||
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Ephemerality
United States203 Posts
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
On June 09 2010 00:20 zomgtossrush wrote: in the time it takes for you to respond going gate zealot forge cannon, I can got gate gate zeal zeal and get to ur front door with a 2v1 zealot advantage. and if a single zealot gets inside its almost a huge advantage, unless your good enough to multitask and never lost a probe. Even still just the headache and lost mining times makes up for this(see pvz BW). And if you are making anything more than an extra forge and 2 cannons you are actually going to be behind economically and techwise. I know you golds and plats might not understand this, but its the truth. Considering you're going to have a forge and 2 cannons while the 2gateing toss could have the same mineral investment into a gas and core. And how is it "GG" for his proxy? If you go forge cannons instead of more zealots he basically got away with it. Yes he lost mining time, but until he losses his proxy its not a lose. He lost say 50 minerals in delayed mining time, but you lose 150+150 forge cannon minimum. and a 250 mineral differential is a huge difference that early, u can either get outexpoed or teched. And YES static d that early is basically a waste. Please don't even try to argue that. If i could for a p to waste 450 minerals on cannons and a forge before trying to tech for 0 punishment(except sending an early probe and little mining time) i would do it every game. Maybe you should try out your strats in high level competition before offering poor advice. Just the fact that you are suggesting that you even need to scout with a phoenix so soon after a cheese shows me how little you probably know about strategy. You really shouldn't need to have to scout that soon after a 2 gate. There's nothing wrong with Gateway -> Forge. All you really need is 1 cannon. And no, you won't have a 2v1 zealot advantage because the second zealot starts at the same time as the third zealot. The cannon will finish by the time Zealots #2 and #3 are at your base. Here's the exact build order for a 2 proxy gateway on Blistering sands: Send out 7th probe Chronoboost 9-10th probes 10 pylon 10 gateway 10 gateway 1st gateway Finishes Pylon Zealot #1 (Chronoboost) Zealot Finishes same time as 2nd gateway finishes Zealot #2 and #3 (chronoost both) And no, I'm not in Gold Division. I was 2000+ Platinum pre-patch, and 400 Diamond in the latest ladder. If I can get replays to work, I have one where MnMine (some 600 rated Diamond) tried a 2 gate proxy on Blistering sands and got shut down by the 1 gate forge build. | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
Finish wall with forge Make sure if they kill your pylon they still can't get in. (ie build a cyber core or anything) Start a cannon or build a pylon if your other one is dead but it shouldnt be yet. Build a 2nd pylon... At this point probably get a 2nd gate and produce stalker/zealot. I prefer the forge/wall method because fighting zealots with zealots bores the shit out of me. If you're comfortable with your defense forget the forge and just get stalkers.. You will probably still need a wall. Also leave your scouting probe there and cannon them if they don't have anything in their base. The theory is They go early agro and you turtle and tech up. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
And no, "scouting" his proxy after you threw down your gas and core does not mean you've scouted it. It means you've been caught with your pants down. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B066E4F286BAD516 + Show Spoiler + WhiteRa pushes with 2 gate, Tester holds off and shuts it down with (1) stalker micro Quick cyber is really the answer IMO, Forge is not necessary and can only put you up defensively, really disrupting your transitioning, unless you plan to FE. Quick cyber also allows for you to get sentrys, which if he continues to Zealot push even after you get a Stalker, the sentry can shut it down or turn the tides completely. | ||
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