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I've been doing 2 gate proxy rushes for about 30 games the last 2 days on the maps
blistering (gates behind enemy natural mins)
steppes (tried both getting gates below and above choke)
scrap station (gates in front of enemy rocks)
desert oasis (duh)
BO is like this:
-) 7th probe goes proxy
-) build 10 probes
-) build pylon proxy
-) build 2 gates
-) get 11th and 12th drone
-) build 2nd pylons still proxy -> send drone home mining
-) get chrono'ed lots
BO varies a bit from map to map (DO -> 6th probe goes proxy)
T can defend with good wallin and repair
Z can defend with crawler besides hatch and camping to roaches
As P, i only held this (once) or failed with it (once) if the rushed P gets 2 gates himself and camps to forge (which does take REALLY long since you can't save that much mins).
A friend told me P should be able to hold this with gate -> forge. But it seems i can't compete with his dual gate lots when i only build lots from one gate.
Has anyone got a replay of a PvP defend that involves a gate -> forge build for the defender where the defender wins against this push?
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Personally, if I detect a 2 gate as Protoss, I will finish my wall-off with a cybernetic core, hold on for dear life at my choke point so his superior numbers of Zealots do not overwhelm me until I get a Stalker. Once you have Zealots/Stalkers you should be in great shape.
Unfortunately I do not have a replay of 2gate as Protoss, only as Zerg.
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On June 08 2010 06:08 Makh wrote:
Personally, if I detect a 2 gate as Protoss, I will finish my wall-off with a cybernetic core, hold on for dear life at my choke point so his superior numbers of Zealots do not overwhelm me until I get a Stalker.
how can you hold your choke? even the small chokes let 4 lots hack away on your buildings ... wouldn't they raze one of the block buildings before the stalker could come? even then, by the time the stalker comes, the agressor has about 5 lots which he can rotate to take quite some shots from the stalker.
still looking for a replay not involving getting 2 gates as defense. :/
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Theoretically, you have the capacity to train the same number of units they do. If they 2gate proxy, you 2 gate defense.
The alternative is to place a cyber core at your choke so only 1 opposing zealot fights at a time (and 2 of yours) and get a stalker out ASAP. If you can successfully have wall-off Zealots a 1 Stalker you should have won the game.
Alternatively, go 2 gate yourself, build Zealots, and when they attack use probes to encircle your opponent and wipe them.
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On June 08 2010 06:49 Makh wrote:
The alternative is to place a cyber core at your choke so only 1 opposing zealot fights at a time (and 2 of yours) and get a stalker out ASAP.
how do i place buildings so 2 of my lots can hit 1 of his? never seen this.
and if i misunderstood you: having zealots 1on1 fightng depletes the lots of the defender faster than the of the attacker?
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there is really no reason not to go two gate to stop a proxy 2 gate, then you're on equal grounds and if you ever push him back (he has no choke) then it's only a matter of killing his two pylons to completely shut down his production. just turtle at your choke lettings four zealots fight at a time until you can get your cybernetics up and get some stalkers/sentries. if you don't have enough zealots then fall back and let 1 zealot fight at a time until shields regen, and more zealots pop out. make sure you make more pylons to power your gates incase the one walling falls
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What's the advantage of going gate/forge over 2x gate though? Assuming gate/forge does work (I'm sure it does if you get the forge out fast enough), all you've done is stopped the rush... he still has you contained. While if you held on w/ your own 2-3 gate not only do you push out but you easily power down all his production buildings and then can go in for the kill.
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I don't know about this specific proxy 2 gate build, but I've found it pretty easier to defend by adding gateways and chronoboosting zealots. (Stop mining gas, and cancel any assimilators that are building, they're a waste of resources.)
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If it's inside your base. Build a forge and surround the proxy with 2 cannons immediately.
If it's outside your base. You can wall off with a zealot and get some stalkers. Snipe his probe and kite his zealots.
10 Forge, 12 Gate will give you better tech options and will keep you secure. If he's got you contained, you need to get a scout out asap. If he's just building zealots, get a stargate and push some void rays into his base. If he's starting to tech in his base or expanding, build up as large of an army as possible and try to bust his proxy since he's used up a lot of his money on tech/econ over army.
Just stay calm, and remember that your first priority is to kill the probe then the pylon early. If he's got multiple pylons, just bust the gates. As long as you can make sure he doesn't expand you will be ahead of him economically because he wasted so much getting that probe out early and getting those two gates out as fast as he did over focusing on his econ.
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HI All,
I used to have to same problem as well against 2 gate (yea name unfamiliar sicne I just joined today lol) but anyway here is what I do. I build a gateway, then a cyber core after zealot, and then I chrono boost out sentries. I get 2 of them. THen Ill either get stalkers or go for phoenixes.
How it works is i have a choke (not the zealot tight type but the stalker type one) and I use forcefield on the ramp. If i get 2 sentries, ill use 2 forcefields and kill of the zealots inside it. Ill also probably put down another gateway and chrono boost out stalkers. Because he did this proxy 2 gate thing, hes gonna be pretty behind in tech, so normally i transition into stargate and chrono phoenix. This way,I can lift off any stalkers he has as well as kill off his probes. If he buildscannons, for every 2 canons he builds (300 minerals) I expand once (400 minerals). Its basically gg by this time.
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On June 08 2010 09:48 BettyNyah wrote:
If it's inside your base. Build a forge and surround the proxy with 2 cannons immediately.
have a replay ready?
also, when exactly should i build the cannons? because i imagine that if i build them too early, he can just cancel the gates and all he has wasted is like 150 mins, right?
On June 08 2010 14:13 Maher wrote:
HI All,
I used to have to same problem as well against 2 gate (yea name unfamiliar sicne I just joined today lol) but anyway here is what I do. I build a gateway, then a cyber core after zealot, and then I chrono boost out sentries.
do you have a replay of how you can hold off his first 3-4 zealots with your 1-2 (assumint you build your cycore after your first gate)?
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On June 08 2010 09:48 BettyNyah wrote:
If it's inside your base. Build a forge and surround the proxy with 2 cannons immediately.
If it's outside your base. You can wall off with a zealot and get some stalkers. Snipe his probe and kite his zealots.
10 Forge, 12 Gate will give you better tech options and will keep you secure. If he's got you contained, you need to get a scout out asap. If he's just building zealots, get a stargate and push some void rays into his base. If he's starting to tech in his base or expanding, build up as large of an army as possible and try to bust his proxy since he's used up a lot of his money on tech/econ over army.
Just stay calm, and remember that your first priority is to kill the probe then the pylon early. If he's got multiple pylons, just bust the gates. As long as you can make sure he doesn't expand you will be ahead of him economically because he wasted so much getting that probe out early and getting those two gates out as fast as he did over focusing on his econ.
first off listen to 0 of this. If you follow this guys logic just "wall off and tech straight to carriers, trust me it should work"
You wont have the resources to go gate forge zealots+cannons. he can just power down your cannons anyways with 3-4 zealots esp with no support. by the time u even get one air unit out u will have lost your wall and any/all probes.
I would say your best bet is to just cancel anything you have going and get your chrono boosted 2 gate going. With proper micro the best case scenario for him is to get a few probes, which still leaves him with the pylon+gates in the open field and a much slower follow up= gg for him.
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My problem with fighting off this rush usually stems from one of the following:
a) His 2nd gate was up faster, allowing him to reinforce and overwhelm. My gate is usually quite delayed because I don't normally pylon scout, so I have a gas building (or finished) by the time it's detected.
b) I make probes : he spams Z.
c) I try to tech instead of 2-gate response : he spams Z
Buildings are too fragile and your choke will not be safe long enough for Forge + Cannons or Sentry. You will be dead long before those options are even close to viable. If he goes proxy 2gate, you HAVE to cancel all else and add a 2nd Gate of your own, and probably pull probes for his initial assault.
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On June 08 2010 14:58 yarkO wrote:
My problem with fighting off this rush usually stems from one of the following:
a) His 2nd gate was up faster, allowing him to reinforce and overwhelm. My gate is usually quite delayed because I don't normally pylon scout, so I have a gas building (or finished) by the time it's detected.
b) I make probes : he spams Z.
c) I try to tech instead of 2-gate response : he spams Z
at least i can help you with b) and c)
b) you have to admit the fact that he can produce boosted lots out of 2 gates with 12 probes on mins. he even has the room to build a cycore/forge/assimilator after his 7th lot (at least, i do). just step down and don't make more than 12-14 probes and don't put them in gas early.
c) if you try to tech, tech slow. get 2 gate first (like i said in my OP) and get like 14 probes with a late assimilator then you should be allright.
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ahh i beat a proxy 2 gate recently.. all u need is 2 zealots to hold the tiny opening at ur wall and get stalkers out asap with 1 sentry to use FF if hes streaming zealots to ur base.. once you have 3-4 stalkers you can outmicro them easily.
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1 Gate -> Forge to stop 2 gate proxies
Make Z's from your 1 gate while teching to Stalkers.
Run by proxies and harass probe line if you can. Otherwise, pressure his proxies after your cannon is up so that he's forced to make more Zealots.
I seriously don't advise going 2 gate to stop a 2 gate proxy for two reasons:
1) Your gateways are going to be behind (both of them if he does the standard 10 pylon 10 gate 10 gate).
2) He's been saving his Chronoboosts.
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On those 2p maps an opponent's 9pylon scout should be able to scout your base right before needing to chrono his 13th probe if he was going 9pylon/10 chrono/12gate. At the point cut probes at 12 to build a 2nd gate (12/12), continue probe production to 14, and save all future chrono for zealots. Even if the defender lose 2-4 probes to their first zealot, since they've been mining with 3 extra probes the whole time, defender should be ahead in minerals.
p.s. you really don't need a forge unless they're doing like 1 gate in their base + 2 proxied gates (hi rotterdam)
p.p.s. this is also assuming you have the micro to right click injured probes to far mineral patches when enemy zealots are in your mineral line. if you don't, maybe you should consider 10 gate as your default pvp opening since it's both viable and is less disadvantaged vs proxy gates.
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On June 08 2010 06:03 jacen wrote:
Has anyone got a replay of a PvP defend that involves a gate -> forge build for the defender where the defender wins against this push?
I think i have only one replay where the defender hold off with 1 gate + forge , i almost always used 2+1 gate rush successfully. Then he won but only beacuse i played in a stupid way. If he cannon heavily, you can stop building zeal and just fast expand. Watch for VR and the game is secured.
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On June 08 2010 14:56 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 09:48 BettyNyah wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If it's inside your base. Build a forge and surround the proxy with 2 cannons immediately.
If it's outside your base. You can wall off with a zealot and get some stalkers. Snipe his probe and kite his zealots.
10 Forge, 12 Gate will give you better tech options and will keep you secure. If he's got you contained, you need to get a scout out asap. If he's just building zealots, get a stargate and push some void rays into his base. If he's starting to tech in his base or expanding, build up as large of an army as possible and try to bust his proxy since he's used up a lot of his money on tech/econ over army.
Just stay calm, and remember that your first priority is to kill the probe then the pylon early. If he's got multiple pylons, just bust the gates. As long as you can make sure he doesn't expand you will be ahead of him economically because he wasted so much getting that probe out early and getting those two gates out as fast as he did over focusing on his econ. first off listen to 0 of this. If you follow this guys logic just "wall off and tech straight to carriers, trust me it should work" You wont have the resources to go gate forge zealots+cannons. he can just power down your cannons anyways with 3-4 zealots esp with no support. by the time u even get one air unit out u will have lost your wall and any/all probes.
orly? When did I say tech straight to carriers? I said send some void rays directly into his base. Most 2 gates work purely off zealots in the early stage. Even then, you should be able to defend your ramp quite easily with a cannon and some units to block any other units from coming in. Never should you just straight tech to something. A scout can mean a variety of different units; if he's only got zealots, a stalker is a perfect scout as nothing he has will be able to chase down that stalker, if you get the stargate out from a 2gate/star build, you can boost out a phoenix to see everything that is going on in his base and the entire map.
Also, gate/forging is basically the same spending build wise. You are just sacrificing 2-3 zealots for 1-2 cannons.
1 pylon = 100 min
2 gateways= 300 min
2 zealots= 200 min
Total min spent initially=600
compared to gateway/forge
1 pylon=100 min
gateway/forge= 300 min
1 cannon= 150
1 zealot=100
Total min spent initially= 650
So you're saying that you couldn't possibly be 50 minerals ahead of a person who has pulled a probe off the line at 7 or 8 food? If you scouted your area properly, you should know where the proxy is and should build your pylon down his throat. The first two zealots will come out before the first cannon finishes, so yes you will have to defend it with anything you have at the moment which will probably be 1 zealot and some probes thrown in, but once your cannon finishes, it's GG for his proxy, there is nothing he can do to protect it.
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If my scouting probe sees nothing in my opponents base (which basically means proxy :p), I complete my wall with the forge and drop a cannon asap. Once I feel a bit more safe, I use my scouting probe to cannon rush his nexus, since he has been wasting all his resources on zealots. Even if I don't kill him with that, I will at least make him run all his zealots to defend his own base. Just top gold here.
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if you 2gate against 2gate proxy you will win 100% of the time
really simple!
why forge when you can just match the gateway count and win...
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On June 08 2010 21:35 faction123 wrote:
if you 2gate against 2gate proxy you will win 100% of the time
really simple!
why forge when you can just match the gateway count and win...
2gating immediately when you see it. Yes you will win every time.
But if you start standard 12gate/gas, then see it, you will not have your gates finished before his and will be behind on your army.
Also, 2gating against a 2gate proxy can possibly come to a stalemate which will leave you contained quite well on some maps. Putting an early cannon down with your gates will halt any aggression that your opponent will put out, then you will be able to take advantage of the weakness of his economy as he lost quite a bit sending that probe out so early.
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I've encounter that alot in Diamond league and tried alot of the variations.
If you scout after gate on a large map IE Blistering. --> go forge or your dead (no cronoboost you will lose)
One cannon or two if game gets long enough in your mineral if the best defense. Send you zealot in his mineral lines while teching and its gg.
On smaller maps you cant try to out-zealot him since you'll scout him earlier and with your probes and some micro you can hold it off.
That being said, I believe that the current state of any kind of 2 gates with crono is very strong.
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On Blistering Sands a 2gate is quite honestly impossible to beat unless you also matched his BO exactly. You can wall off your choke sure, and then what, watch as your backdoor debris gets decimated and he walks in with a superior army and dominates everything you have since you have no army. "Get a stalker/sentry" hah, right, good luck, let me know how that works out for you.
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8751 Posts
In my experience, Protoss needs to 10gate on 2 player maps. I don't see how a 12gate or 13gate defends against a proxy 10pylon 10gate 10gate. And Protoss ought to be blocking their ramp with their first Pylon and Gateway against P/Z.
If you can't defend against 2gate Zealots by getting your own 2gate Zealots (because they're too slow) then do this: stop all Probe production, cancel gas if it's still building or take Probes off gas if they're mining, build a Forge to completely block your ramp, use all boosts on Gateway to build Zealots (make sure they're rallied toward your ramp, not toward the inside of your base), start a Cannon as soon as Forge finishes. If all your Zealots die and he's breaking down your wall, build more buildings to fortify your wall and keep making Zealots.
On Blistering, your second Pylon should be near your rocks, anticipating having to build a Cannon there to keep Zealots off your rocks (which will still be useful even if he gets Stalkers/Sentries to break the rocks).
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You could just always 10 gate scout/12 gate in PvP no matter what like I do.. you wont ever lose to proxy gateways / cannon rushes. It gives you map control, vision from watch towers, lets you harass there main making them build more army than they wanted if they were teching which will let you catch up in tech, lets you expand safely. Only problem I could have with this build is a 1 base timing push with immortals I think.. but I think that would only kill your army but then you should be able to repel him back still.. dunno since havent ran into that much... if they go 2 base which most do then you will have advantage since you can expand way before them with map control..
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if i scout proxy gates I just throw down 2nd gate of my own, hold the choke with 1 zealot wall until 2nd gate gets up and running at which point you should be way ahead
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just get 2 gateways also and keep pumping zealots, use some of ur probes to help out, if your micro sucks you may build a forge and get 1 cannon. Then get ur third gateway, cybercore and transition to stalker/zealot and hunt for the proxy gates = gg
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On June 08 2010 23:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:
In my experience, Protoss needs to 10gate on 2 player maps. I don't see how a 12gate or 13gate defends against a proxy 10pylon 10gate 10gate. And Protoss ought to be blocking their ramp with their first Pylon and Gateway against P/Z.
If you can't defend against 2gate Zealots by getting your own 2gate Zealots (because they're too slow) then do this: stop all Probe production, cancel gas if it's still building or take Probes off gas if they're mining, build a Forge to completely block your ramp, use all boosts on Gateway to build Zealots (make sure they're rallied toward your ramp, not toward the inside of your base), start a Cannon as soon as Forge finishes. If all your Zealots die and he's breaking down your wall, build more buildings to fortify your wall and keep making Zealots.
On Blistering, your second Pylon should be near your rocks, anticipating having to build a Cannon there to keep Zealots off your rocks (which will still be useful even if he gets Stalkers/Sentries to break the rocks).
Yeah, you definitely have to wall. If you can wall, even if you have to keep building structures while yours are being razed, once you wall and get that cannon up, the proxy has failed.
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Like Powster said, a 10 pylon -> 10 gate is very safe, especially in PvP. Hell, I open it in all my match-ups. Scout after pylon on big maps, after gateway on small maps. Anything fishy, go scout around your area frantically. That's when i can decide to cyber up or throw down more gates. Usually, I just feel safer getting the second gate though, regardless of what I see, but it gives you that flexibility, especially against like a reaper rush. If vs Zerg, you can 2 gate and rush an expo if they go 15 pool/16 hatch and break it. If vs Toss and they proxy gate you, just zealot pump into a 3rd gateway, and then throw down cyber and gas. I almost always have a good enough economy to continue to pump zealots and add the 3rd gateway, which will break their proxy when you have a 3:2 advantage  So at that point they either A) Stubbornly continue their efforts and lose or B) Give up, make a forge, and try to tech to void at their base. So Immediately just take out pylons while your probe scouts their base once you overcome the cheese, but don't worry so much about the gateways because you want to break in their base BEFORE they turtle. You can continue to pump if a probe comes back to repower them. If they aren't turtled up yet, then you can rush and win. If they turtle up, you have already outteched them by having your cyber up, and they wasted all their money on the forge.So you just use your advantage and beat them to the punch. Tadddaaaa. At least works in platinum league, however in the higher levels of play you may see differences in the approach that make it harder to defend? dunno.
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in the time it takes for you to respond going gate zealot forge cannon, I can got gate gate zeal zeal and get to ur front door with a 2v1 zealot advantage. and if a single zealot gets inside its almost a huge advantage, unless your good enough to multitask and never lost a probe. Even still just the headache and lost mining times makes up for this(see pvz BW).
And if you are making anything more than an extra forge and 2 cannons you are actually going to be behind economically and techwise. I know you golds and plats might not understand this, but its the truth. Considering you're going to have a forge and 2 cannons while the 2gateing toss could have the same mineral investment into a gas and core.
And how is it "GG" for his proxy? If you go forge cannons instead of more zealots he basically got away with it. Yes he lost mining time, but until he losses his proxy its not a lose. He lost say 50 minerals in delayed mining time, but you lose 150+150 forge cannon minimum. and a 250 mineral differential is a huge difference that early, u can either get outexpoed or teched. And YES static d that early is basically a waste. Please don't even try to argue that.
If i could for a p to waste 450 minerals on cannons and a forge before trying to tech for 0 punishment(except sending an early probe and little mining time) i would do it every game. Maybe you should try out your strats in high level competition before offering poor advice. Just the fact that you are suggesting that you even need to scout with a phoenix so soon after a cheese shows me how little you probably know about strategy. You really shouldn't need to have to scout that soon after a 2 gate.
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I usually pylon/gate near my nexus in PvP, if I spot any proxies I cut probes, build a second gate immediately and pull probes as needed to make up for their initial edge in zealot count. I really prefer forcing them into zealot wars rather than walling off and letting them try to catch back up economically.
I also scout after pylon, 12 gate -> scout is just asking for trouble given the high proportion of cheesy players on ladder
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The only way I see getting a forge superior to also getting two gates (or more) is if you are able to get cannons into their base, since they have no units to defend. Someone who cheeses by cannon rushing will probably be able to hold off the two gate proxy and destroy the opponents base.
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On June 09 2010 00:20 zomgtossrush wrote:
in the time it takes for you to respond going gate zealot forge cannon, I can got gate gate zeal zeal and get to ur front door with a 2v1 zealot advantage. and if a single zealot gets inside its almost a huge advantage, unless your good enough to multitask and never lost a probe. Even still just the headache and lost mining times makes up for this(see pvz BW).
And if you are making anything more than an extra forge and 2 cannons you are actually going to be behind economically and techwise. I know you golds and plats might not understand this, but its the truth. Considering you're going to have a forge and 2 cannons while the 2gateing toss could have the same mineral investment into a gas and core.
And how is it "GG" for his proxy? If you go forge cannons instead of more zealots he basically got away with it. Yes he lost mining time, but until he losses his proxy its not a lose. He lost say 50 minerals in delayed mining time, but you lose 150+150 forge cannon minimum. and a 250 mineral differential is a huge difference that early, u can either get outexpoed or teched. And YES static d that early is basically a waste. Please don't even try to argue that.
If i could for a p to waste 450 minerals on cannons and a forge before trying to tech for 0 punishment(except sending an early probe and little mining time) i would do it every game. Maybe you should try out your strats in high level competition before offering poor advice. Just the fact that you are suggesting that you even need to scout with a phoenix so soon after a cheese shows me how little you probably know about strategy. You really shouldn't need to have to scout that soon after a 2 gate.
There's nothing wrong with Gateway -> Forge. All you really need is 1 cannon. And no, you won't have a 2v1 zealot advantage because the second zealot starts at the same time as the third zealot. The cannon will finish by the time Zealots #2 and #3 are at your base.
Here's the exact build order for a 2 proxy gateway on Blistering sands:
Send out 7th probe
Chronoboost 9-10th probes
10 pylon
10 gateway
10 gateway
1st gateway Finishes
Pylon
Zealot #1 (Chronoboost)
Zealot Finishes same time as 2nd gateway finishes
Zealot #2 and #3 (chronoost both)
And no, I'm not in Gold Division. I was 2000+ Platinum pre-patch, and 400 Diamond in the latest ladder. If I can get replays to work, I have one where MnMine (some 600 rated Diamond) tried a 2 gate proxy on Blistering sands and got shut down by the 1 gate forge build.
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if you built at your choke, just finish the wall off with a forge, build a cybercore behind the pylon. build like 1-2 zealots if you want... And build an additional pylon. I Realize thats a lot of minerals so it goes in this priority....
Finish wall with forge
Make sure if they kill your pylon they still can't get in. (ie build a cyber core or anything)
Start a cannon or build a pylon if your other one is dead but it shouldnt be yet.
Build a 2nd pylon...
At this point probably get a 2nd gate and produce stalker/zealot.
I prefer the forge/wall method because fighting zealots with zealots bores the shit out of me. If you're comfortable with your defense forget the forge and just get stalkers.. You will probably still need a wall.
Also leave your scouting probe there and cannon them if they don't have anything in their base.
The theory is They go early agro and you turtle and tech up.
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It's not that hard in reality folks, assuming equal skill level between players (i.e. zealot micro). You 10 gate on small maps, 12 gate on large ones, wall off your ramp, and scout before you decide to throw down your gas or not. If proxy, throw down a 2nd gate and eventually a 3rd gate if needed to overwhelm them. If he's teching then you can throw down your gas and proceed as normal.
And no, "scouting" his proxy after you threw down your gas and core does not mean you've scouted it. It means you've been caught with your pants down.
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Watch Altitude TL Invitational; WhiteRa vs. Tester games, really insightful for high level PvP play.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B066E4F286BAD516
+ Show Spoiler +WhiteRa pushes with 2 gate, Tester holds off and shuts it down with (1) stalker micro
Quick cyber is really the answer IMO, Forge is not necessary and can only put you up defensively, really disrupting your transitioning, unless you plan to FE.
Quick cyber also allows for you to get sentrys, which if he continues to Zealot push even after you get a Stalker, the sentry can shut it down or turn the tides completely.
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excuse me, but i don't see any proxy gates in the 2 recent white-ra vs tester matches.
did you mis-read the title of the thread?
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Get second gateway, chrono lots, pull probes and you should be fine...
If you went 1gate core, just get down second gate asap, chrono lots after your first stalker and hold off until warpgate finishes or you just flat out fight it off. Pull probes as necessary.
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Sometimes, depending on the situation, you can cannon your opponent's base. If you wall off completely (and your scouting probe is still outside), then stop all production. He'll be preoccupied with breaking your wall, and if you can manage to save up 700 minerals (minimum), get a forge and put a cannon or two within range of his Nexus. Once it's up, he's either forced to come back to defend his base with zealots, or face losing his Nexus. If you stopped all production, you'll probably have the resources to build a Nexus where his was, and then it'll be well-defended by a few cannons you threw up. If you can hide it, it's always best to keep the forge outside of your base when you do this, so his zealots can't destroy it to stop your cannon production.
I've been able to win proxy games like this a few times when being proxied. It's not an easy solution or appropriate in all cases, but I've found that it can really turn the game around.
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I dont have any personal replays but I've had allot of success holding this off. If you scout it early you wall off with a cybernetics core and then use sentries to push back zealots and stalkers to keep them back. Recovering is pretty easy too. Building a robo bay gives you warp prism so you don't have to worry about the wall off, and then you can move into colossus to mop up their failed rush ground army.
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On June 09 2010 05:14 jacen wrote:excuse me, but i don't see any proxy gates in the 2 recent white-ra vs tester matches. did you mis-read the title of the thread?
Sorry I wasn't more descriptive, he did not proxy but what I explained is what you have to do regardless, possibly pull a few probes to delay with that. The positions are fairly close on the Lost Temple game, comparably to some proxys.
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I've tried lots of different ways to stop 2-gating, and the most effective way I've found to do it is to just mirror the strategy. Except I do it better and hold at my choke. I just mass zealots early in (again, if I've scouted a 2gate) and use a roughly equal number of zealots, but with defender's advantage. The other option is to throw a couple canons behind your wall, but defensive 2-gating pretty much always beats offensive 2-gate proxy since you haven't pulled probes and you have the choke advantage. If he just keeps pounding you, then start teching to stalkers after the initial assault and you'll be able to hold off even more easily.
You'll always be slightly ahead in unit count and tech (since you'll be ahead in economy) and eventually he'll run out of steam and your advantage will slowly grow. If he's dumb, then it's an easy win. If not, then you still have a small advantage that you can exploit.
And, again, if you aren't very confident in being able to pump out zealots faster than him, just build like 2 canons and 2 zealots. The zealots block your wall for more than enough time for the canons to take out your attackers, and in the meantime you can just build whatever the hell you want because all he has is 2 gates and some zealots. 
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On 2p, I now always 2 gate build against PvP. That means saving my CBs as well (At most, I will use one CB for probes). If the opposing P is proxy-rushing, I will have no problem defending it. If I find he's tech'ing, I'll zealot rush, then tech switch as I gain an advantage.
On 4p maps, it's more tricky. It often depends on how fast you find your opponent. If you scout the proxy build too late, it's a very uphill battle. If you 2 gate yourself from the start, zealot rushing is less effective on big maps and you're severely tech-disadvantaged. I hate early PvP on big maps since it feels like a guessing game.
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pvp... i scout with 8th probe which goes for the first pylon.
if it notices a proxy, i save all my chronos right away. go for 2 gateways and mass zealot to hold ramp maybe few probes to get advantage when he attacks (he must attack)
if u can stop the rush game is urs. so because of this i feel like proxy gate rush is kinda sucky. it would have like %33 winning rate in platinium which is bad 
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EPT
