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On July 28 2010 18:12 iEchoic wrote:
1) Very vulnerable to gas steals. Opponents who exploit this by sending stalkers up your ramp while you try to shoot the assimilator make it even worse. Most 1/1/1 compositions can not be supported off one gas (for reference, producing siege tanks alone takes about one refinery operating at full capacity worth of production)
2) Relatively easy for P to get an army that can hold off early pushes and expand before you
3) Difficult to apply early pressure/harassment
4) Gives the other player time to get basically anything they desire. Chargelots for example.
1. Instead of reactor-barracks, double barracks. It's easy to adapt around a gas steal.
2. It's easy to hold off very early pushes out of 1/1/1 but protoss builds that go up to 2 gate and core before nexus are not timed right to pull ahead before a scouting terran can push. This means protoss expands have to come very early and drastically change the options for Terran.
3. This is true in any situation Terran does not do rax MM pressure. Even proposed reaper-hellion suffer the same to micromanaged stalker and forcefields.
4. There's no tech option that Terran should fear out of 1/1/1. For example, chargelots are easy to counter simply by positioning marines behind the siege tanks when you push. Counter intuitive given that siege tanks have terrible cost to hp ratios, but this actually increases unit survival by a significant amount because they have larger hp totals, 1 armor, and more hp/sec from SCV repair than any medivac can provide for any one marine.
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wow, seriously? i can't believe people don't even read your initial post avilo before commenting.
THIS IS NOT AN AGGRESSION BUILD. holy &*(( people, this build is to defend and might i say defend VERY well into a natural, building an army and then slowly containing the protoss army with tanks/EMP/ravens/marines/banshee harass.
you want to keep the protoss from expanding? get 3-4 banshees and kill that probe. kite around stalkers -- SCOUT. build some bunkers. learn to defend.
if you use this build like u would with MMM, then yes u will die and u will die horribly thinking "what went wrong".
please stop posting "this build doesn't work" blah blah blah. the idea of this build is to give the terran an advantage at the start so u don't lose to early DT rushes, or fast immortal push. 1/1/1 doesn't mean u can't adjust, build another factory or rax or starport, ghost academy for EMP, etc.
this build is almost flawless to virtually anything protoss can push u with early game. there are mass stalkers of course, but 1 raven/handful of marines/bunkers 1 tank should be what u have by the time he's attacking and it should be more than enough to take out that stalker army until you get seige up and slowly expand/contain.
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On July 28 2010 18:12 iEchoic wrote:
Surprised this is still being discussed.
Standard supply-rax 1/1/1 against P was very powerful for a while. Good protoss players have learned to beat 1/1/1 builds (or at least make them much more difficult) as its popularity boomed. There's a number of reasons I don't run these builds anymore:
1) Very vulnerable to gas steals. Opponents who exploit this by sending stalkers up your ramp while you try to shoot the assimilator make it even worse. Most 1/1/1 compositions can not be supported off one gas (for reference, producing siege tanks alone takes about one refinery operating at full capacity worth of production)
2) Relatively easy for P to get an army that can hold off early pushes and expand before you
3) Difficult to apply early pressure/harassment
4) Gives the other player time to get basically anything they desire. Chargelots for example.
There is the TLO-style supply-refinery-rax into reaper/hellion 1/1/1 that may become more popular due to the fact that you can apply early pressure much more easily as well as finish the 1/1/1 progression around 30 seconds faster. This is dangerous on two-player maps, especially small ones, though.
*snicker*
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tbh interesting build and i only got most of the way through it so ill give it some tries and let you know how i did
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Thanks man, I recognized your name from the CNC3/RA3 community, you were one of the biggest names and top players, and now I can use your guide to learn TvP (and T in general) better, which I really want to do
Very good guide, I have been using it as a base for my strategies while climbing the ladder
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First, absolutely magnificent post & strategy outline; this type of play appeals to me greatly! Absolutely love it.
Second, I didn't read through all the 13 pages so my apologies if the answer lies there, but would there be any recent replays available? I just couldn't get the ones in the first post to work, would very much appreciate a replay pack or just individual games. I really want to see bunch of these games and try to absorb as much information as possible. 
Thank you!
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Avilo thanks for the perfect strategy - As I'm finding it just now, maybe you can upload some recent (not beta version) replays?
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its a good strategy.. until the toss makes voidrays and you insta-lose.
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On August 05 2010 03:09 drewbie.root wrote:
its a good strategy.. until the toss makes voidrays and you insta-lose.
Make 2 marines, emp the ray. It dies.
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On August 05 2010 03:09 drewbie.root wrote:
its a good strategy.. until the toss makes voidrays and you insta-lose.
I'm actually not sure where you're coming from on this. I've dealt with voidrays, and yes sometimes you can lose to them, but often I see them, focus with marines/ghosts, get some vikings out and maybe a thor or two and then they're really not a threat. The issue is if all your AA is killed off and you're left with like, tanks vs voidrays, you lose your push. That happens to me a lot, but it usually isn't even GG if that happens.
Stargate play early game should NEVER be met with a starport. It reduces your ability to push and your tankcount and eco by too much. I've decided it just doesn't work. Make more marines and throw down some turrets, you need the gas for tanks.
I think once you're on 2 base you can afford to throw down a port or two to deal with voidrays.
The real issue is voidrays are often difficult to scout and prepare for. A good protoss who proxies 3 stargates in midgame can ruin your day - but that's what protoss does in BW too =P
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I lost to this earlier today by none other than avilo... you cant really go voidray cuz he builds turrets every 5 feet and has a few vikings that really discourage voidrays. I honestly cant think of anything I should have done except HT to feedback all the thors and ghosts he had. I am really stumped...I guess I should have just mass expanded
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I know I asked this already but could anyone provide us replays of ghost mech (1-1-1 raven opening) in action? I would be so happy about that.
I've been trying to implement and execute it against tosses and for the most part it has worked superbly. I have lost to stupid things like early rushes by not getting SCV's to repair the wall in time etc, but when I manage to pull the build just right and micro properly this is just an awesome strategy. Mind you, I'm a Bronze leaguer (lol).
Huge thanks to Avilo and others (again) who have contributed to this thread, it has definitely given me a solid approach to TvP which truly works wonders if I'm able to execute it properly.
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I would also like some replays. The ones in the OP don't work anymore.
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As the last 2 posts said. Can anyone provide replays? :D I'll love your family if you do (:
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Just so it doesnt go unheard, here is the third post in a row asking for replays . Avilo plesae post some rep pack or just some reps of you doing this strat man, itd be awesome to see it in action so that we can actually see how you play this style...
I wont love your family though, i think thats kind of sick... (reference to the post above me  )
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Another request for replays. Anyone have anything?
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As a fan of this build, I shall demand replays too (fourth request, Avilo please! :D)
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i pmed avilo he hasn't responded to me =(.
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I will try to play some 1-1-1 TvPs and get yall some reps today; God knows been trying for days but all I get is TvT!
Er, I think that there is a way to make the replays work; they are definitely worth watching. I believe that Trump streams 1-1-1 TvPs also, but he's been plagued by endless TvT just like the rest of us.
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I will try to post some replays as well. But I, too, would like to see some replays by the pioneer himself because I feel like my play isn't as clean as it could be (my biggest weakness has always been void rays). I will post a replay or two when I get home in a few hours.
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EPT
