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GGLCheck
France15 Posts
I mean I did exactly the same but i just got badly owned in my own base by blink and immortals. I don't think it is really viable against good Ps... I mean, your replays were against Ps with 40 and 50 apms, a bio push would have crushed them easily. I am skeptical about this strat, really... | ||
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Guilloteen
United States128 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:32 GGLCheck wrote: I tried this 2 times against a good friend who is diamond P and was totally owned by immortal / stalkers with blink. I mean I did exactly the same but i just got badly owned in my own base by blink and immortals. I don't think it is really viable against good Ps... I mean, your replays were against Ps with 40 and 50 apms, a bio push would have crushed them easily. I am skeptical about this strat, really... lol you're toss friend may be in diamond, but obviously, you're not.. I have a 95% win rate vs toss with this..the ones where i lose are the ones where they 4 gate rush me.... give it a serious try, it works really well for me, dunno why it shouldn't for you | ||
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Sorkoas
549 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
I haven't done heavy analysis on it yet. After the tech lab on the factory, go for a siege tank right away, instead of lifting and making another tech lab. The siege tank behind a wall always makes holding a wall against stalker pressure much easier. When the starport finishes, make a viking first. Even if there isn't stargate tech, the viking makes a good scout and isn't a total waste as it can be landed. When the siege tank is done, the factory can then make a second tech lab, and the starport can then make a raven like normal. Slightly faster siege tank, viking before raven. | ||
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GGLCheck
France15 Posts
On August 13 2010 07:59 Guilloteen wrote: lol you're toss friend may be in diamond, but obviously, you're not.. I have a 95% win rate vs toss with this..the ones where i lose are the ones where they 4 gate rush me.... give it a serious try, it works really well for me, dunno why it shouldn't for you I have 60% win against my friend however I was a bit tired yesterday and need to give a more serious try for sure, however my first feeling (hey, I m just telling what I feel :p ): - what if he goes stalker heavy on 3 / 4 gates and blink up the cliffs or into the tanks ? You will definately lose lots of units... - this build just let the P expand freely because you seriously lack mobility, letting him expand with warp gates will let some timing windows wide open for him because he can outpop you easily - what s the point of this build since bio push, like done by Strelok or Sjow for instance, will instamurder any P if the T do bad ? - this strat just lacks mobility... Void rays are not a pb, but blink, for me, is... On the second game against him, I will find the replay at my home, he just jumped onto my cliff with 8 stalkers, kill the 2 tanks in a second, and jump back in my natural where my tank were. Another pack of 3 immortals and 3 stalkers was here supporting... I was unable to get a clear shot with EMP and he just blinked when I put down ADD... Tanks blasted themselves... | ||
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:18 Sorkoas wrote: The real problem with harassing with ravens is their speed and how they dont really deal damage until you have them in masses. And when will that happen? Works only if your opponent doesn't have any air units at all. I believe you can do much better investments for harassment. Edit: Sorry, of course ment ravens and not reapers.  How many ravens do you need to sneak up and plant one autoturret? You will of course be moving away the instant it is cast. The whole point of harassment is to attack where his army is not present, otherwise even dropping four helions would do nothing. | ||
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ToXin
Dominican Republic5 Posts
1- Does the storm do more damage in initial when the storm come out in the first second .. or it's the same damage per second? 2- Does the EMP remove natural parasite when my unit(thor/tank or wtver) its already mind controled? | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
On August 13 2010 17:18 GGLCheck wrote: Pdd is vital against stalkers with blink. It makes blinking into your tanks useless, and they can't run away or most of them will die on the way out. If they are still going stalkers late game, i think it might be useful to get another raven. I have 60% win against my friend however I was a bit tired yesterday and need to give a more serious try for sure, however my first feeling (hey, I m just telling what I feel :p ): - what if he goes stalker heavy on 3 / 4 gates and blink up the cliffs or into the tanks ? You will definately lose lots of units... - this build just let the P expand freely because you seriously lack mobility, letting him expand with warp gates will let some timing windows wide open for him because he can outpop you easily - what s the point of this build since bio push, like done by Strelok or Sjow for instance, will instamurder any P if the T do bad ? - this strat just lacks mobility... Void rays are not a pb, but blink, for me, is... On the second game against him, I will find the replay at my home, he just jumped onto my cliff with 8 stalkers, kill the 2 tanks in a second, and jump back in my natural where my tank were. Another pack of 3 immortals and 3 stalkers was here supporting... I was unable to get a clear shot with EMP and he just blinked when I put down ADD... Tanks blasted themselves... | ||
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Guilloteen
United States128 Posts
On August 13 2010 17:18 GGLCheck wrote: I have 60% win against my friend however I was a bit tired yesterday and need to give a more serious try for sure, however my first feeling (hey, I m just telling what I feel :p ): - what if he goes stalker heavy on 3 / 4 gates and blink up the cliffs or into the tanks ? You will definately lose lots of units... - this build just let the P expand freely because you seriously lack mobility, letting him expand with warp gates will let some timing windows wide open for him because he can outpop you easily - what s the point of this build since bio push, like done by Strelok or Sjow for instance, will instamurder any P if the T do bad ? - this strat just lacks mobility... Void rays are not a pb, but blink, for me, is... On the second game against him, I will find the replay at my home, he just jumped onto my cliff with 8 stalkers, kill the 2 tanks in a second, and jump back in my natural where my tank were. Another pack of 3 immortals and 3 stalkers was here supporting... I was unable to get a clear shot with EMP and he just blinked when I put down ADD... Tanks blasted themselves... well, blink stalkers should not be an issue, really...you have pdd...and if the game goes past your initial push of 3-4 tanks, 1 raven, 1-2 banshee (or viking), and marines, then you need to getting more ravens and start adding ghosts... Late game I usually have a bunch of banshees and 3 or 4 ravens, and i go around harassing with that, while my main army is at home defending my expos... the ravens can pdd if there are cannons, and the banshees destroy all the probes, and then back out, repeat with other expos..I usually move out when i have about 4 or 5 ghosts that are fully charged, then start moving out... usually by this time, a good toss will have an army that counters mine perfectly, with immos to kill tanks, a few colossi to destroy marines, and chargelots for tanks and rines, but with emp and ravens (pdd or autoturrets), i almost always win the fight 1-sidedly.. sometimes if i see the toss going for chargelots right away, i replace marines with helions with preigniter...but in this case i have to go vikings instead of banshees, and use the helions to harass, since i don't have banshees... Also, with proper use of a sensor tower or two, this build is almost unbeatable... Its not that toss has nothing they can do, its just that the things they have to do to win are ridiculously hard....OR they can just 4 gate rush, and win... so, basically, i'm saying blink stalkers shouldn't be too much of an issue 0_0 | ||
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Azerbaijan
United States660 Posts
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
Really, tanks are one of the best ways for Terran to punish Protoss for vesting heavily into stalkers. | ||
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GGLCheck
France15 Posts
The difficult fact was to adapt to this build that is much more tactical than timed like bio, and it's also funnier because you have plenty way to harass. Fact resided in unit placement, thanks for your help. I even won a game without attacking, just harassing and letting him getting slaughtered trying to desperatly attack. He even said than T is imba :p I put 2 towers up my cliff to early scout and avoid prism / DTs. If he tries DT he is pretty much owned by its cost. I also put 2 or 3 rines along the cliff allowing the tanks to take free cheap shots at his army if he tries to blink. Banshees are a great add to destroy zealots along with igniter helions. I just have to take care of all my moves, need marines to kill obs if I spot them with raven. Meh It s incredibly funnier than bio play anyways :p | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4120 Posts
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On August 17 2010 03:23 Dante08 wrote: This build is solid but really requires superb execution and defense if the P is aggressive. If you make a single mistake P will just roll you easily. And in late game even if you crush their army they can reproduce easily with their warp gates and 3-4 base. Plus its super hard to fight off a transition to void rays. Any solutions to this? Well, regarding lategame, if it gets that far, you quite literally will crush his army with minimal losses, so dealing with warpgates isn't a big issue. Also, you want to be 3x nuking some of those bases and warpgates and keeping their probe count down with hellions. Obviously if you leave him 5k minerals and 15 gates, you are gonna have to some issues.. As far as a transition to void rays, that's something that takes time. You should already have a reactor and a starport, link them and add another starport, building a 2nd reactor with another building. EMP + vikings + marines + a thor or 2 should let you push into his base with your tanks/hellions and end it. | ||
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Divine_
Sweden115 Posts
That hurt. | ||
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SoFFacet
United States101 Posts
What kind of tactics can the Ghost-Mech player use that make this kind of Protoss response ineffective? | ||
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Doormat
United States12 Posts
On August 17 2010 23:24 SoFFacet wrote: My only question about this strategy is why do Protoss players feel the need to attack it? Why not just take more bases and macro, and run circles around the mech army with backstabs, drops, etc? What kind of tactics can the Ghost-Mech player use that make this kind of Protoss response ineffective? The issue with mass expanding for the Protoss player is that the Terran has so many tactics with which to harass. Banshees, ravens, hellions, and nukes are all really easy to obtain and the Terran can afford to split his forces a bit to harass because tanks are so cost efficient at defending. Backstabs and drops tend to be pretty weak against Terrans playing this strategy because they typically have little space to defend because they don't mass expand. | ||
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kme
Serbia176 Posts
But I would definitely like to see some non cheesy reaper build in TvP as they are also very good against zealots (who are very hard to deal with). Maybe some 4 rax MMR timing push? That seems nice since reapers can enter the base from behind and force P to split his army. | ||
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