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[G] Ghost mech Terran vs Protoss - Page 14

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Shaithis
Profile Joined March 2010
United States383 Posts
August 11 2010 22:03 GMT
#261
For void rays, you have to get a quick swap of your tech-labbed starport to a reactor. For this reason, always build your port close to your rax. Also, you should be making marines constantly until you start making ghosts.
Hatsu
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom474 Posts
August 11 2010 23:45 GMT
#262
Actually early void rays are quite easy to repel in my experience, by the time they hit you have a bunch of marines and possibly a starport.

The main problem with this build is that, in my opinion, it is quite passive. And carriers are a huge, huge pain to deal with. Yes I know you can kill probes and nukes expansions, but the protoss still has a lot of opportunities to expand.
That said, it's a bloody awesome build and its far, far more fun to play than the various iterations of MMM/ghost out there.
Sedit qui timuit ne non succederet
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
August 12 2010 02:46 GMT
#263
Here are some replays to quench your thirst then as phase 2 hit, more protoss of course got familiar with this play style and started doing carriers/void rays in late game. So I started to use thors a lot more often, they are good versus void rays and gateway units in general.

[image loading]

[image loading]

it is still a very viable playstyle, i'll have to update the guide about thor usage with ghostmech (when im not lazy).
Sup
RandomBS
Profile Joined July 2010
United States130 Posts
August 12 2010 02:54 GMT
#264
thanks
"an intelligent zerg will go 2 hatch, my build was designed to take advantage of that and so lost because he went 3 hatch. going 3 hatch is utterly retarded for the reasons i just explained so yes i did lose because he did something dumb." -idra
KrissirK
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States63 Posts
August 12 2010 04:14 GMT
#265
Thank you Avilo. I love your family now :D <3
ekhie
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland14 Posts
August 12 2010 05:58 GMT
#266
Thanks a lot Avilo! :D You're the man.
Ready to roll out!
whatthemate
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia51 Posts
August 12 2010 06:01 GMT
#267
Ghost mech vulnerable against early robo| warp prism robo harass play.

I noticed avilo got tons of gas early.
whatthehell
InfusedTT.DaZe
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania693 Posts
August 12 2010 06:08 GMT
#268
What about that game against....forgot where u lost Avilo? against 5 carriers , u made thors -_-' any way the ideea to defeat this build is try to go late game and go mass carriers(because he will not have vikings if he thinks u go standard Stalker/Chargelots/Immortal etc...)
"Echoes of past events nudge the tiller on my present course, I await its reflection in the future"
ekhie
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland14 Posts
August 12 2010 06:40 GMT
#269
You seem to have corporated Thors into your play, any specific reason for this? Also, you opened up with a Marauder instead of Marines. These are of course little things but I'm so friggin' curious about slightest nyances that I just can't help myself asking these questions. ;-P

It's just that the build and play you pulled off was somewhat different from the stuff you outlined in the original post - can you share some thoughts about this? You did say you need to update the original post, so I'll be waiting that to unfold. :-)

I apologize if I'm asking stupid questions but I'm still quite new to SC2, so I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible.
Ready to roll out!
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-12 07:20:36
August 12 2010 07:08 GMT
#270
On August 12 2010 15:08 Lunzela wrote:
What about that game against....forgot where u lost Avilo? against 5 carriers , u made thors -_-' any way the ideea to defeat this build is try to go late game and go mass carriers(because he will not have vikings if he thinks u go standard Stalker/Chargelots/Immortal etc...)


Obviously thors suck versus carriers, but in that ladder game I decided to TRY them - and it just happened to be a game that was casted even though it was a pretty bad game. (also iirc, I didn't scan or scout the protoss guy's main for tech for like 5 min lol, deserved to lose that one).

How do you think I have this refined down pretty well now? a lot, a lot of testing, which means a lot and a lot of losing games to see what works and what does not work. That's the first (and needless to say only) game where i tried mass thors versus carriers - just to see how it would work never know if you do not try something. so never be afraid to try something and see how it ends up. Reactored vikings are always the best option versus carriers.
Sup
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
August 12 2010 07:16 GMT
#271
On August 12 2010 15:40 ekhie wrote:
You seem to have corporated Thors into your play, any specific reason for this? Also, you opened up with a Marauder instead of Marines. These are of course little things but I'm so friggin' curious about slightest nyances that I just can't help myself asking these questions. ;-P

It's just that the build and play you pulled off was somewhat different from the stuff you outlined in the original post - can you share some thoughts about this? You did say you need to update the original post, so I'll be waiting that to unfold. :-)

I apologize if I'm asking stupid questions but I'm still quite new to SC2, so I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible.


ah, just like everyone else i tweak things a lot, so I test different units and things to see how someone will react differently, and to see how many units you can have at a certain time etc.

the thors are really good versus void rays and pretty much anything, a lot of protoss players have gotten used to hellion harrass, so it's just another way to switch things up too pouring all your minerals into thors instead of hellions.

the fundamental ideas and unit composition are the same though. mainly the thors inclusion really does very good against the mass void ray switches later in the game (thors+emp+turrets).

Sup
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
August 12 2010 10:36 GMT
#272
Wait, how do thors beat Void Rays? VRs are armored and are the direct hard counter to thors (and many other things). Unless he clumps his VRs likea chump or has some ridiculous number of the, I don't see how VRs work.

I'm tryin to make ghost+mech work vs Toss too. God damn it's hard.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Svizcy
Profile Joined May 2010
Slovenia300 Posts
August 12 2010 11:06 GMT
#273
Yea i'm trying Ghost mech also and my problem is that toss just outexpands me, but then usses his units just to prevent me from taking third expo and so on until i am forced to move out.
I like playing like this but at same time i find it very hard to get to my next expo after the natural one.
Will watch the 2 of your replays now and perhaps i learn something.

good day, svizcy
Shaithis
Profile Joined March 2010
United States383 Posts
August 12 2010 15:17 GMT
#274
On August 12 2010 15:08 Lunzela wrote:
What about that (T)(us)Game against....forgot where u lost Avilo? against 5 carriers , u made thors -_-' any way the ideea to defeat this build is try to go late (T)(us)Game and go mass carriers(because he will not have vikings if he thinks u go standard Stalker/Chargelots/Immortal etc...)


Simply put, "he thinks u go xxx" is not diamond-caliber play. You HAVE to scout. Minerals are not as important for this build, so you should be scanning a LOT. Every time you do a drop, you should be getting some good info on what he is doing. Rule of thumb that if you see a carrier beacon, it's time to get some vikings (even if he only got it for flux vanes / air upgrades). You should have 1-2 reactors already, so just swap your starport. Don't make too many vikings though, mix it up with turrets and a few thors so you do not leave yourself open to a tech switch.

Also, carriers are expensive and take a long time to deploy. If you ever get "ambushed" by a carrier masser, you are doing it wrong; watch your replay to pick up on all of your missed opportunities to harass their economy and force them to build lower-tier units.


On August 12 2010 19:36 link0 wrote:
Wait, how do thors beat Void Rays? VRs are armored and are the direct hard counter to thors (and many other things). Unless he clumps his VRs likea chump or has some ridiculous number of the, I don't see how VRs work.

I'm tryin to make ghost+mech work vs Toss too. God damn it's hard.


VRs are hardly a direct counter to thors. It's a given that mass VRs beat mass thors (with micro), however a few thors backed by marines, ghosts, turrets and vikings will have no problem.


On August 12 2010 20:06 Svizcy wrote:
Yea i'm trying Ghost mech also and my problem is that toss just outexpands me, but then usses his units just to prevent me from taking third expo and so on until i am forced to move out.
I like playing like this but at same time i find it very hard to get to my next expo after the natural one.
Will watch the 2 of your replays now and perhaps i learn something.

good day, svizcy


You HAVE to harass their economy. Hellion drops, banshees, anything. Probes have to die, or you will definitely get outproduced.
Sorkoas
Profile Joined May 2010
549 Posts
August 12 2010 15:38 GMT
#275
I have been practising doing a ghost/marine (+some marauders in the mix) opening Gretorp style to have mobility and a stable defense vs any early all in cheeses. The idea is to either make a timing push or just turtle up with bunkers and etc until you can grab your expansion and build up a solid mech army. You stick to only barracks play until you have that expansion up because using ghosts eats in to your gas. When your expo is up you make a factory and starport from which you get out some tanks and vikings. At this point I'd suggest having two barracks, one with a reactor and one with a tech lab. When you can afford it you go for another factory and starport. If possible you throw in Thors later on.

1 base: Marines, Ghosts + some Marauders.
2 base: Marines, Ghosts, Tanks, Vikings + some Marauders and a Raven or two (2x PDD or even seeker missiles, why not?), possibly some Thors as well
3 base: Ghosts, Tanks, Vikings, Thors + some Marines Marauders and Ravens
4 base: Later tier focus, of cvourse

Bio into heavy mech transitions. Might wanna get some medivacs and hellions up for mobility + harass options. Even teching cloaked banshees might be a good idea since you have your raven(s) to snipe observers and all.

I'll throw up some replays when I have had some good matches. I haven't actually been able to practise this well since game went retail due to lack of gaming time.

Thoughts?
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-12 16:01:23
August 12 2010 16:00 GMT
#276
Firstly, thanks for writing this up. I've been using it since around phase 2 and i've worked up from gold to mid diamond. I'm just wondering when's the best time to move out? Whenever the protoss doesn't attack me but rather plays defensively, I find that I don't have the map control to expand or deny expansions.

Also I've just noticed that you said put first 100 gas on factory while I normally get reactor for barracks first. Is this a must or personal preference?

One more question, how many vikings should you have to counter collosi/ if you scout a robotics bay. I'm having the most trouble with collosi right now.

Once again thanks, great build got me to 400 elo diamond, and hopefully further in the future.

edit: I noticed this build doesn't have the marine numbers mid game to counter pheonix's, is this when its a good time to build thors, or should I put down barracks?
mieke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States11 Posts
August 12 2010 16:29 GMT
#277
Here's my latest attempt at this strategy. After reviewing it, I realize that I could be gaining map control in several points of the match and made it that much easier but this strategy is still new to me so I would appreciate all feedback.

[image loading]
NorwegianRage
Profile Joined March 2010
United States71 Posts
August 12 2010 19:46 GMT
#278
On August 13 2010 01:29 mieke wrote:
Here's my latest attempt at this strategy. After reviewing it, I realize that I could be gaining map control in several points of the match and made it that much easier but this strategy is still new to me so I would appreciate all feedback.

[image loading]



Just watched this replay. Build execution is pretty solid imo but there were a couple things you did I'm not so sure about. For one why is it necessary to drop the hellions from a medievac? This map provides a great flanking path of approach already. Also I was left feeling as if you could have been doing more to harass, (auto-turrets, cloaked banshees, more sneaky hellion shenanigans) this build and this execution of this build demonstrate the power vs gateway and robo units.

Can someone upload a replay vs mass voidrays? I having some trouble with these in my own practice games.
mieke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States11 Posts
August 12 2010 20:40 GMT
#279
Hmm...I never considered using the auto-turret as a harass tool only b/c PDD seems too useful to not always have full energy to use. But you're right on the banshees, I should try harassing with them. I usually don't get cloak b/c 200 gas is a lot to kill some probes especially when they get detection. Though I should try it, b/c it would probably force them into a defensive posture allowing me to move out and assume map control.
Sorkoas
Profile Joined May 2010
549 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-12 21:42:32
August 12 2010 21:18 GMT
#280
The real problem with harassing with ravens is their speed and how they dont really deal damage until you have them in masses. And when will that happen? Works only if your opponent doesn't have any air units at all. I believe you can do much better investments for harassment.

Edit: Sorry, of course ment ravens and not reapers.
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