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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
For the record, Alterzim is a terrible map. The worst kind of gimmick map. I do think FRB would make it play substantially better, straight up, yes. But I agree it wouldn't "fix" it.
@neobowman: FRB was a cool experiment, but it ended up not really achieving the goal. But I think we learned some things in the process. Such as, terran imba. (mules on 6m bases is stooooopid)
@lez: I like unconventional main base layouts like that, but it definitely shifts the game into a different territory where players can just die in certain situations where they miss a proxy or otherwise don't get a good scout. I would make sure the center of your map has watchtowers to allow spotting of early moveouts so that it's not too easy to 1base.
@infcereal: not a bad concept, but you really need to work on your proportions. For example the main base is ridiculous small, and you need a diagonal ramp there. The natural is also cramped. The middle is kind of chokey for the only spot to move through without breaking rocks. The open areas in front of the 3rd base are very large, maybe there can be something there. It seems like this map should be at least 10-20% bigger just so there is room for the mains in the corners.
@namrufus: First thing, I would remove the ramps that connect the 4m1g 3rd bases. I think it only detracts from the map and will result in 1dimensional pushes into those areas. I would also make the map a little wider, the rush distance seems a bit short. For example, the large open area in front of the rocktower at the real 3rd, the distance between those areas is quite short, and that is where armies will usually stand in a more passive game. I think you should put a tower in the open lowground to provide players a reason to go down there. So it watches the level 1 narrow path but none of the level 2 route. I don't think the natural should be 6m1hyg, I don't think this operates the way you want it to here. If anything you could have distance mining patches or something. Have you thought about 4hym1hyg bases instead of 4m1g? I think these would be more interesting because they really punish sticking to only 2 bases but they don't let you sit around on "3 bases". Is it a conscious choice to have the walloff spot so far from the natural nexus? (Out of range of photon overcharge?) I feel like the ramp should be in a more normal (less forward) spot. The 12 oclock gas only is kind of weird. I think there should be minerals there too so it can be a real income source in a mined out game, not a "win more" gas boost.
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On November 30 2013 04:07 EatThePath wrote:
@neobowman: FRB was a cool experiment, but it ended up not really achieving the goal. But I think we learned some things in the process. Such as, terran imba. (mules on 6m bases is stooooopid)
That's an interesting point you bring up. Considering that Terrans have an advantage with fewer resource bases, wouldn't the inverse be true as well? I imagine that at a certain point, having more minerals would be detrimental to Zerg who tend to have lots of bases but not enough drones to saturate the minerals. It could be interesting to play around with it for balance considerations.
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Experimenting more with far 3rds and narrow chokes vs open spaces on an otherwise standard (though relatively small at 148x148) 4p layout. Basically as Z you'll want to defend in one of the open areas either in front of your nat or 3rd, as P/T you can use one of the chokes.
Not sure yet what to do with the center, probably just a few obstacles to reduce the openness - maybe a center gold base for the lulz?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vZuBSbe.jpg)
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made something very similair to that, made it very hard for zerg to take a 3rd, if not other races later, but if thats what you want to achieve I don't see the problem.
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something has always irked me about 3rds with one entrance. I guess derelict watcher has shown that it's not imba, but it seems uninteresting. I kind of like the antiga shipyard approach. for the attacker by ground it's predictable that they can only use one path, and for the defender it can be annoying to navigate against air harrassment. just imo but I would hate to play a PvZ like that.
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-NegativeZero- , the chokes seem too tight, maybe make some ramps 3 width and rocks in some of the heavy chokes. I really love the 1 width ramp 3rd's, really want to see a map with this feature get played on a major tournament or on the ladder.
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your Country52798 Posts
Stairway to Oblivion
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p5uEY2P.jpg)
144^2
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natural and both thirds look over vurnable to cannon rush
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your Country52798 Posts
On December 01 2013 00:29 19Meavis93 wrote:
natural and both thirds look over vurnable to cannon rush
you could just take the other third against a cannon rush
anyway no zerg in their right mind is going to take the forward third
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not only the cliffs, but also the minerals, theres plenty of opportunity for 2pylon blocks from what I can see
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I think the corner bases are a little too close, try spacing them out more evenly with the other bases.
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NegativeZero with the current TvZ meta it looks far too difficult for Zerg to take a third and hold it while Terran once a walloff is up and defensive mines placed should have a much easier time holding a third - and the momentum shifts which occur when expansions power up are so critical...It would be cool if we saw a fallback to an older meta of macro hatch before third but I don't think that's very likely since Terrans are so adept at holding expansions now.
To all mapmakers - what do you think about pressing mineral lines closer to the edge of cliffs so that retarded cannon rushes are no longer possible? I think it would be very good for ZvP.
Negative if you just moved the third a bit closer then I think the map would be awesome.
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bloodstained ground
The map is kinda small (147*140).
7 bases
Open 2nd base
2 choices for your 3rd base : one of them has only one gaz (high yield vespene gaz)
Short rush distance
You can't touch the nexus/hatch/CC by sieging a tank behind the 3rd base minerals
Many path ways and sneaky stuff
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LmqZqmG.png)
+ Show Spoiler +
Tell me what you think 
I'll publish it soon, I still need to fix/finish many things
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EB2HGiz.jpg)
Changes made:
-Increased width of 4 ramps from 2 to 3
-Added a little more space to the open areas in front of nats and 3rds
-Added 2 burrowed ultralisks to each 3rd ramp to prevent both defensive and offensive FFs until they are killed
-Added central obstacles and watchtower
To clarify the original intent/reply to people's comments/explain some stuff:
The thirds are indeed supposed to be hard to take. (In fact, every expansion should be a little more difficult to take - the nat chokes are also 2 squares wider than normal.) However, theoretically I think defending the 3rd as Z shouldn't be any harder than as P/T. On 3 bases, Z will want to use the 2 open areas in front of the nat and 3rd to defend, intercepting the enemy army before it actually reaches the 3rd entrance - these 2 areas are significantly closer than the actual nat-3rd distance and have more than enough room for the zerg army to get a good surround.
I know people have been avoiding using watchtowers recently and for good reason, but with the bases on this map so much more spread out than normal, I think this one might be interesting and effective in keeping track of army movements, idk. Thoughts?
Also I remember someone using the burrowed ultralisk FF preventing thing a long time ago, but I forget what map it was and I can't find it...
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your Country52798 Posts
On December 01 2013 00:16 The_Templar wrote:Stairway to Oblivion + Show Spoiler +144^2
Small update, fixed most of the mineral lines. Still trying to move one of the corner bases without destroying the layout.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F0b1CMG.jpg)
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Hey there.. so.. this is my first map.. ever.
Please tell me what i've done completly wrong :D
The idea was, to create a map, that has initialy a long rush distance but get's much shorter as the game progresses (by destroying the rocks between the bases)
Of course it is still WIP and the bounds of the long highway-thingy aren't there yet.
Thanks in advance.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j9Q0O2g.jpg)
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On December 02 2013 14:59 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Also I remember someone using the burrowed ultralisk FF preventing thing a long time ago, but I forget what map it was and I can't find it...
I want to say that was monitor or maybe semmo, I could be wrong though. The map was dirt/sand coloured, that's all I can remember. XD
I have also played around with making duplicate colossus units with alternate textures so they look like statues. That way the players know they are there but can still move through them while they block FF. idk, maybe something like this is worth it.
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On December 02 2013 14:59 -NegativeZero- wrote:Changes made: -Increased width of 4 ramps from 2 to 3 -Added a little more space to the open areas in front of nats and 3rds -Added 2 burrowed ultralisks to each 3rd ramp to prevent both defensive and offensive FFs until they are killed -Added central obstacles and watchtower To clarify the original intent/reply to people's comments/explain some stuff: The thirds are indeed supposed to be hard to take. (In fact, every expansion should be a little more difficult to take - the nat chokes are also 2 squares wider than normal.) However, theoretically I think defending the 3rd as Z shouldn't be any harder than as P/T. On 3 bases, Z will want to use the 2 open areas in front of the nat and 3rd to defend, intercepting the enemy army before it actually reaches the 3rd entrance - these 2 areas are significantly closer than the actual nat-3rd distance and have more than enough room for the zerg army to get a good surround. I know people have been avoiding using watchtowers recently and for good reason, but with the bases on this map so much more spread out than normal, I think this one might be interesting and effective in keeping track of army movements, idk. Thoughts? Also I remember someone using the burrowed ultralisk FF preventing thing a long time ago, but I forget what map it was and I can't find it...
Wow, this is really cool. I might try something along these lines after finals since I'll have time.
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On December 05 2013 10:30 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 14:59 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Also I remember someone using the burrowed ultralisk FF preventing thing a long time ago, but I forget what map it was and I can't find it... I want to say that was monitor or maybe semmo, I could be wrong though. The map was dirt/sand coloured, that's all I can remember. XD I have also played around with making duplicate colossus units with alternate textures so they look like statues. That way the players know they are there but can still move through them while they block FF. idk, maybe something like this is worth it.
Are the colossi indestructible or raised HP something? I think the advantage of using burrowed ultras is that they are burrowed and therefore harder to remove, at least in the early game where something like an FF blocking the ramp is more likely to be a game-changing event.
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On December 05 2013 15:13 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 10:30 EatThePath wrote:On December 02 2013 14:59 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Also I remember someone using the burrowed ultralisk FF preventing thing a long time ago, but I forget what map it was and I can't find it... I want to say that was monitor or maybe semmo, I could be wrong though. The map was dirt/sand coloured, that's all I can remember. XD I have also played around with making duplicate colossus units with alternate textures so they look like statues. That way the players know they are there but can still move through them while they block FF. idk, maybe something like this is worth it. Are the colossi indestructible or raised HP something? I think the advantage of using burrowed ultras is that they are burrowed and therefore harder to remove, at least in the early game where something like an FF blocking the ramp is more likely to be a game-changing event.
I actually first did them as untargetable / unkillable because I wanted a permanent FF blocker that was also a built-in visual cue. Without knowing the ultras are there you just see a forcefield fail to appear, so it could be confusing. You could make it however though, like same HP/armor as rocks, with or without shields that recharge quickly, etc.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7OZOU2d.jpg)
