Is it weird for me to say that I think Barrin's 6m Devolution would be a killer LotV map? (assuming normal mineral lines) It has more bases, spreads out the action a bit, but retains a central attack path and doesn't go too overboard with the size...

[image loading]

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

November 16 2014 10:44 GMT

#2644

On November 16 2014 15:45 TheFish7 wrote:
Is it weird for me to say that I think Barrin's 6m Devolution would be a killer LotV map? (assuming normal mineral lines) It has more bases, spreads out the action a bit, but retains a central attack path and doesn't go too overboard with the size...

+ Show Spoiler +

Holy crap it's King Sejong Station, never realized that before. Seems like it could work with what we know about LotV so far, but I think we should wait until the beta before making any assumptions about economy and map design.

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

November 18 2014 05:51 GMT

#2645

On November 16 2014 07:06 MarcusRife wrote:
Something I've been working on. More bases than usual anticipating LOTV.

Analyzer image
+ Show Spoiler +

Very simple but effective design. I like it!

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

November 18 2014 05:52 GMT

#2646

Although I feel Zerg would have a hard time taking that middle third, since the rocks take time to break down and I don't think Z would eagerly take the base behind the rocks due to creep and reinforcing and all.

The_Templar

your Country52798 Posts

November 18 2014 07:14 GMT

#2647

MarcusRife, if you made the map slightly larger so that the bases are more spread out, I think that could still be a HotS map. It's got a very interesting 6 base design. (Also, that island watchtower gold base is really cool :D)

The main problem is that, everywhere there could be a large-scale engagement, there's probably a base already there. Outside the 5th (highest ground) could be nice, but I don't really see anywhere else. (Although my sense of proportion might be off and everywhere is sufficiently open, but I don't think so?).

I'm not entirely sure how abusable the center choke is. I might point out that it sort of makes breaking two sets of rocks redundant since you can easily bypass one and you might consider just changing it to one rock blocking all three chokes.

bibi123

Albania1 Post

November 18 2014 08:21 GMT

#2648

Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 18 2014 22:28 GMT

#2649

+ Show Spoiler +

Which is better center layout? None of the stuff in the first overview would be final.
Any feedback would be nice. If not Im just going to go ahead with the way it is, with obvious balance changes.

Meavis

Netherlands1300 Posts

November 18 2014 22:44 GMT

#2650

I like 2nd more, more breathing room for armies, 3rds look bit close to eachother in pic but hope its just there

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 18 2014 22:52 GMT

#2651

Yes, it looks smaller in the pic. Actual version would be more spacious/longer 3rd to 3rd rush distance. Plus collapsible rocks would help vs. early game attacks. Thank you for the input.

Xenotolerance

United States464 Posts

November 19 2014 01:26 GMT

#2652

weird one...

152x152
Nat to nat close ~38, cross ~48

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 19 2014 02:22 GMT

#2653

Those high ground pods in the main are always nice. Idk about taking a 3rd as Zerg, with the collapsible towers. If a player controls the center they have a huge advantage. Not that I'm a good mapmaker or player, so my opinion probably can be disguarded. Maybe push the 3rd back and make a path between the 3 ramps and collapsible tower. Then that path could have CRs on it?

Xenotolerance

United States464 Posts

November 19 2014 04:30 GMT

#2654

STK I think I found a clean answer for your suggestions:

Rocks impeding the ramp to the center are gone, not sure why I had them in the first place. Maybe playing Cloud Kingdom just makes me want to put rocks on every ramp. And there's an overlord pod blocking line of sight to the tower from the attacker's side. It's still an option to target it down, but you have to commit to it during an attack instead of knocking it down from your own side of the map. I might need to make the pod wider to actually achieve this effect ... or move the tower to the other side.

Army movement with the middle is pretty good now that those rocks are out. It was too easy before to get up there early and lock it down. Now I'm not super worried about it being too strong of a position in general until late gate game, or if those center bases become super important, because once anyone has a decent size army, the side paths open up and runbys get really good. I am worried about imbalance in a matchup with zerg: With P or TvZ in close positions, with the Z being counter-clockwise, might screw the zerg for a 3rd base, since Z can't really expand to the normal 3rd safely, and if they take the other 3rd they're open to attack from the middle. Siege units on the middle are really really good in that scenario, so a zerg player would have to get more aggressive, possibly taking the high ground 3rd as a forward position and/or trying to push creep hard into the terran through that area (thinking of Life vs Taeja on Merry GO Round, but a mapmaker shouldn't count on Life for a balanced concept ... or they can just get swarm hosts) In any case, it's easier for a zerg to take either 3rd now than it was before, but maybe not easy enough.

I'm excited about this layout... thanks for the feedback!

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 19 2014 05:58 GMT

#2655

No problem! But like I said your the more experienced map maker. My main concern before was the 3rd, from my Zerg point of view, but you seem to have it figured out. And yeah, I didn't mention it but the map seemed to have unnecessary rocks. Glad to know there gone. Looks like a solid map layout to me.
+ Show Spoiler +

i would personally make the map have a jungle or desert theme, because it's shape and symmetry feels more natural. That's all up to you of course, buy when was the last time we saw a pretty agria map?

prapti

United States1 Post

November 19 2014 07:13 GMT

#2656

User was banned for this post.

Meavis

Netherlands1300 Posts

November 19 2014 09:59 GMT

#2657

@xeno, taking a counterclockwise base against a clockwise opponent spawn is hard as fuck, outside of that there's to many deadzones that take a while to get around.

Xenotolerance

United States464 Posts

November 19 2014 18:57 GMT

#2658

Poking at the map, not sure where to take it. I'm looking at the use of dead space in pro maps, and I'm not understanding what you mean right away.

Overgrowth:
+ Show Spoiler +

Image link
I'm looking at the rocked-off ramps with dead zone at either end in front of the standard 3rd, and the big jungle pod in front of the forward 3rd.

KSS:
+ Show Spoiler +

Image link
I'm looking at the crevasse coming off the forward high ground base, the really wide pit around the natural (where the helipad is it's bigger than you need to avoid siege tanks attacking resources), and the sparkly pit in front of the usual 3rd.

Both of these maps are professional and have a different flow entirely so direct comparison isn't useful - I'm not comparing my work to pro maps. Regarding dead zones though I do see some pretty big ones around the 3rds in particular. I could see someone describing them as being too numerous and taking too long to go around - so I'm wondering what the particular differences are that make these dead zones prosauce and mine a problem. I do notice that the dead zones are generally in front of bases to help with defense - is that it though? Thoughts?

oh yeah I did try and make some changes:

I tried reducing the dead zones, but mostly I just felt like I was taking away from interesting flow. I did find a way to scoot the clockwise 3rd closer and widen the ramp to make it easier to defend. But it's definitely a step backward at the same time, especially with the center.

Homonuncnunc

United States41 Posts

November 19 2014 19:23 GMT

#2659

You'd be better off comparing your map to Nimbus or even Frost, for obvious reasons. I think you could probably push the 12/3/6/9 bases further towards the edges to give yourself a little more room to work with in the center. I definitely prefer the look of the dead spaces in the center; it was open enough before, but the ramps weren't with all those rocks.