I agree with the feedback you've gotten so far STK. I'm no Meavis but I'll try to answer your question.

The middle high ground base is not usable as a 3rd simply because it's too close to your opponent. Of course there could be a gimmick strat like a fast PF or something, which is actually a good thing about it, but it doesn't make sense as a standard 3rd. Don't change it, but don't treat it like a 3rd.

The high ground 3rd continuing on from the natural is not usable as a 3rd because it gives no defender's advantage. The defender's army has to live right in front of that 2-FF ramp to defend the 3rd and nat, and can easily get trapped in a bad position, just because of that awkward spot. (Some would say the defender's army should have to move more in order to defend nat and 3rd base at once - another thing to consider) Meanwhile the attacker has a lot of flexibility and doesn't seem to have a downside from an aggressive position. There's more space on the attacker's route into the base and the ramp is in line with the army path - it's hard to get trapped, plus there's an escape route. You could try changing this by adding a collapsible rock tower in the attacker's route, adjusting the defender's ramp size and/or direction, and by giving the defender more space in the base.

The lowground 3rd isn't tenable either because it's forward to the opponent and wide, wide open. It's also too hard to defend, just because it's too close so timings come nice and quick and again because the attack has more space to maneuver and get a good angle than the defender.

As for changes, I recommend strongly against making the change suggested in orange, since it generally doesn't solve the main problem: The rush distance over the high ground is too short. You could try adding huge diagonal rocks or collapsible towers to those ramps, which also makes taking the middle high ground base more possible. You also should consider pushing the mains back deeper into the corners, giving you some space to move the lowground 3rd further away from the opponent (and also making it less blink-friendly - leave space between that 3rd and the main).

Good luck <3

iamcaustic

Canada1509 Posts

November 06 2014 01:32 GMT

#2622

On November 06 2014 02:13 SwedenTheKid wrote:
[image loading]

will be away from my PC for a few days. How does this look? Low ground 3rd by nat ramp removed.

I'd say there's a simpler solution to improving the map:

Only downside is the high level of resource saturation with minimal army movement, so you might want to consider doing something about the low-ground third anyway.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 06 2014 04:29 GMT

#2623

Wow, that really helps Xeno and iamcaustic. Will be making the changes as soon as I can. Also probably will combine the 8 o'clock base and the low ground 3rd, or make it a half base. Don't like the amount of resources so close to the main base. Plus with that base gone it will give me more room to work with the main. Will have to experiment.
+ Show Spoiler +

still can't think of a good name. Maybe "solace night"? "Neo Neptune"?

daboss9635

Canada21 Posts

November 06 2014 05:54 GMT

#2624

Sorry if i'm kind of spamming the forums but here's another update on the map sub-station.
Changes:
1) Easier to harass gold base.
2)Two towers for overlords on each side of the map. (one at the natural and near the gold base)
3)Extended map bounds for more air space.
4)Spread out ramps near the third and a untraversable cliff to make the third a bit easier to wall off and secure.
5) A small bit of low ground at the 4th base to make it less open.
6) Many additional aesthetics to improve on the atmosphere.
But I still need to work on the textures a bit more...

Also if you guys could give me some more feed back that would be amazing!!!
So here's the map:

[image loading]

OtherWorld

France17333 Posts

November 06 2014 14:48 GMT

#2625

I like it. I guess now only the potential blink issue remains, along with the ZvZ wall thing.

TheFish7

United States2824 Posts

November 07 2014 01:48 GMT

#2626

On November 05 2014 09:54 SwedenTheKid wrote:

Dude this map reminds me of this map:

"Crossfire" (name taken)

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 07 2014 02:57 GMT

#2627

hmmm its a stretch but I see the connection. Was originally going for the BW Blue Storm look, but its pretty clear to me that the final version of my map is going to look way diffirent.
+ Show Spoiler +

how do low ground mains sound?

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

November 08 2014 20:28 GMT

#2628

New map: Desolo

144x144
14 bases
Pocket mineral-only (8 patches)
Regular natural has 6 patches instead of 8
The smaller ramp is blocked on the bottom by 4 mineral patches with 5 minerals each

Meavis

Netherlands1300 Posts

November 09 2014 00:15 GMT

#2629

to many ramps and chokes, far to many actualy, please browse through a couple of good maps and look how open terrain is on those to get a better idea of how open terrain needs to be.

also your minerals/geyser placement is very awkward on some bases.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 09 2014 02:38 GMT

#2630

trying to figure out a good layout for the outer 4th/3rd. I think its a good idea to make it a half gold. Obviously very rough draft. Concerned about how cramped the middle is.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 09 2014 02:51 GMT

#2631

+ Show Spoiler +

better main-nat-3rd idea? Yes its a low ground base. (rocks will be added to nat-to-3rd hill)

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 09 2014 03:48 GMT

#2632

So this is my last upload today...hopefully. What do you guys think of the center? The Main/nat/3rd layout? any feedback would be great <3

Or this other version I just sketched. Idk which is a better layout. Green is collapsible rocks, purple walls are defensive positions (light to dark-early to late).
+ Show Spoiler +

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 11 2014 04:38 GMT

#2633

New map I'm finishing. Inspired by Fighting Spirit. Also, gold naturals. (Updated Image)

No pathing behind the natural. Path to the main-side 4th is blocked off by rocks. 3rd is the only mineral line/gas that can be hit by tanks. Tower in center can spot pretty much everything crossing the map. Maybe to OP. Textures could use some work. Also I have no doodads at this point.
+ Show Spoiler +

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

November 11 2014 04:49 GMT

#2634

If I were you I'd widen the bridges that lead to the center as well as the ramps that come off of the 4ths. It feels way too easy to 4-base (with higher income because gold) and only have to hold two relative narrow chokes, and only be vulnerable mostly at the 3rd. For instance I know in PvZ I could open phoenix to deter a spire opener, and then sit on 4 bases with a bunch of sentries. And in PvT conversely I'd have a hard time doing anything with a turret and two bunker-walls barring my avenues of mid-game attack.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 11 2014 05:15 GMT

#2635

Thanks for the advice, updated. It was a concern I had. Hard to convert BW layouts because of stuff like that. Still a bit of a turtle map, but I'm decently happy with it.

Xenotolerance

United States464 Posts

November 13 2014 00:49 GMT

#2636

cool stuff yo. I quite like the middle. It might look a little off at first, but I think army movement is pretty interesting... in cross positions. In close positions the counter-clockwise player just gets stuffed, especially against tanks and air.

oh yeah - I've always had the impression that easy, close gold bases really strongly favor Terran - see Gangnam Terran. I don't see the gold natural as crucial to the concept, so you might consider switched the gold to, say, what's currently the 3rd, and make either 4th easier.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 13 2014 03:14 GMT

#2637

Its only cross-spawn at the moment, btw. Thanks for the feedback.

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

November 13 2014 04:10 GMT

#2638

(Updated) I think is pretty much done. What do you think of the sort of 2 in 1 map style with the different gold base placements? The theme? Made the 3rds more exposed to limit turtle play. Cross-spawn only of course.