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On August 29 2013 20:20 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 20:15 Izerman wrote:is it possible to actually make the units not clump up at all? when you really have to select each unit and press them against eachother ? that would bring a whole other concept to the playground  or maybe why not just make everything bigger scale for less surface dps for smaller units? Idea number 1 basically requires a recode of the pathing system. As far as I know it is hardcoded, and if it isn't I don't posses the technical skill to change it x.x. Idea number 2 You must take a lot into consideration. The idea is to have your army spaced out, with actual space in between units. This enables a lot more micro than clumps of units are capable of. Bigger radius on all units also means they are still clumped, just the units look much larger (and quite strange if too big). There is a mod that did this for sc2 WoL, the results were quite awful x.x.
oh cool. thx for explanation for question 1.
question 2 though..
shouldnt you increase the bubble where the units are selectable and such as well?
i mean change everything accordingly ?
im gonna go and experiment i think
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On August 29 2013 20:21 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
I'd say something between method 2 and 3 for spread speed.
A few things though. Can you make the movements more randomly timed so they don't move in syncronized jitters?
Also, It might be nice if the spread happens with slightly slower movements to make it look more smooth.
I tried the first idea. It just doesn't spread as reliably (50% chance to spread).
Trying out the second idea now.
Good ideas btw.
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first idea could be made like this:
If [UNIT] within spread range, for each 0.1 second, if randomizer is positive, do spread movement.
The randomizer could be set to something between 10-20% to make units spread randomly, but within a very confined timespan
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On August 29 2013 20:57 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
first idea could be made like this:
If [UNIT] within spread range, for each 0.1 second, if randomizer is positive, do spread movement.
The randomizer could be set to something between 10-20% to make units spread randomly, but within a very confined timespan
I've got something with a 20% chance every .4 seconds.
It looks really good (the units walk instead of dead sprint .2 away  ) but the problem is that is doesn't spread very fast at all.
Perfectly fine but I'd much rather prefer something that makes a spread formation accessible all the time.
Keep in mind, you can break the magic box by adding in a single unit from your rally point into your control group.
I'd rather spread out be default and automatic, and let clumping be a choice. (makes me almost want the super spreader)
Edit:One more thing of note. You do see the green circles that represent units move commanding somewhere. You can disable these for the mod to get rid of them. Does anyone like these at all? I've never given them much thought.
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The move circles look silly, and will be confusing for observers.
As for the random spread - increasing the percentage OR the frequency will make spreading much faster. It should be possible to get a fast spread while keeping it somewhat random.
With 20% every 0.4 seconds you will have 30% of units not making a movement the first 2 seconds (0.8^5)
With 30% per 0.4 its 16%
With 10% per 0.1 its 12%
With 50% per 0.5 its 6%
I'd say anything below 10% not moving for 1.5 seconds will probably be fast enough
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Yeah, get rid of the green circles every time a unit auto-spreads.
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hm, i do think you need to factor in more time than dec's method to get a full spread. If the outer ring of units don't get into position then it doesn't matter much what inner units do. Not sure though
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december, you might get slightly better results if you increase the distance they move each time. Slower movement speed, but longer wander distance.
adding an initial delay is nice too, but i'm not sure it's needed if you added a %chance to spread.
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Alright I'm sticking with the latest version I just created with Zaphod's idea.
With a group of 26 zealots it takes them roughly 5 seconds to be "spread" but takes them another 3 seconds to stop moving around entirely (always one or two units shuffling around). With the time it takes to spread first being relatively low I don't mind one or two units shuffling around if they don't look bad.
Units will not be slowed when idle spreading, messes with stop command->move. Looks good enough without it from what numbers I ended up with.
What suffers is MASSSSSIVE groups. They will take a bit to unravel, but they will spread out during this process (basically you'll most like be effected at least a little by the movement system).
So here are some actual game play things and tricks I forsee.
A player can manually blob and move his blob full speed with no movement spread if he hits stop and immediately activates move command again every 6 seconds in game time. This requires a lot of attention to your army in return. It also leaves you vulnerable to aoe. I can see early marines vs zerglings using this tactic to ensure they have less surface area. Though we have seen tests where marines slightly spread out more effective, but I'm not sure WHEN that scenario is. Most of the time balling is slightly more favorable to you if you get a-moved by lings.
Every once in a blue moon a unit will auto spread into tank fire or a mine. It will not happen very often unless intentionally trying to ball up right next to mines or siege tanks. I will laugh evily, and find amusement in your dispair as you lose 50 minerals worth of marines, BWHAHAHAHAH.
A big group of units who you let auto spread first WILL move faster across the map in a better formation than someone who clumps first, and the moves.
Your formation is more wide spread instead of being a column if you wait for your units to spread.
This process can be sped up greatly by sectioning off your army into different groups.
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I want to try it out, but sadly i can't play till 9 sept 
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Is it even possible to remove the movement indicators? (just for specific movements)
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On August 30 2013 04:36 SolidSMD wrote:I want to try it out, but sadly i can't play till 9 sept
X>X.!!! That is a long time.
@Pura
With two clicks yes. No more flashing lights!
Is there anyone who actually cares about it? They added it in during the transition from WoL.
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yes, exams n shit , had more time between exams last 2 weeks so i was able to mix in some sc2, now only 2-3 days for each. FML >.<
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Anyone gonna play something tonight? I would love to obs game or two.
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I have been out of the Starbow scene for a while (only lurking), but I would love to observe some games, too. Channel starbow on EU, correct?
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#pura
yes, however people wait for a new big patch so no one plays atm sort of
the patch is suppoused to arrive on friday
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On August 30 2013 08:17 Foxxan wrote:
#pura
yes, however people wait for a new big patch so no one plays atm sort of
the patch is suppoused to arrive on friday
Thanks for the reply ^^ I'll wait for the patch then. :D
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I just want to add my two cents that I think it's VERY IMPORTANT we get the idle spread aesthetics to be as smooth as possible. The sillier it looks, despite the fact that we know it's good for gameplay, the more damaging a first impression it will make on new players.
I'm excited to see it in action though. I rarely check replays, so the more casted VODs we can get after the movement patch goes live the better, pretty please?
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Does units auto spread when on hold position?
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EPT
