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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
So I will probably increase that inner dangerous radius a bit. But maybe it is not necessary. Hm. That is just how it feels when I look at games, and when I try in in the editor. If you want, try it in the Starbow unit tester. Set up some Spider mine fields and walk into them. You can slow down game speed to see the detonation damage. Does it feel ok? | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
HP 100 Armored Cost 75/25 Requires Tech lab? Damage with rocket weapon - 12 vs all, 18 or 20 vs mechanical Damage with flame-weapon - 8 vs all, 16 vs light (Makes them 2-shot Zerglings with +1 weapon upgrade) Attack cooldown 2 seconds on both weapons. Range 5 on the rocket weapon Range 1.5 on the flame weapon Not sure if it shall benefit from the range upgrade, as it currently does, (6 range Marauders too good?) I will try to add some kind of delay or cooldown on the weapon switch The rocket attack is strong vs Stalkers, Vultures etc. It does deal damage bonus vs Immortals, but due to Immortals high dmg, they still seem able to beat Marauders quite easily. So there is not damage bonus vs armored targets, like Lurkers. But those numbers are ofc not final. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Should be great if opponent can do some micro against it He fires infront of him for 2seconds, 8damage per second Something like that? I have some concerns about zerg, has their macro been calculated? It seems 2gate zealot rush is so strong against zerg, because so low larva If terran macro is better than protoss, because lets be honest the chronoboost energy doesnt add up in macro imo. Cut the reactors? I would love to see equal macro for all races When is the patch live? is it live now? Maybe increase larva per second for zerg? Have you considder removing inject? I mean remove the queen? edit: have you considder starting the easier road sometime? For example, you cut the immortal right now, buff stalker. If stalkers get problem than nerf blink or remove it FOR NOW and think about possible addtiions meanwhile, focus more on balance and tight gameplay right now. Make everyrace none-broken the first 10min for example, meanwhile think of solutions and adding units at the same time If this was done, and balance was better and so on. That gives more testing via games at the same time Could be easier | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
If I do changes to the macro, I need to have better data if there is macro imbalances. (Otherwise I do not know what I try to improve or change.) The patch is not uploaded. I will do it maybe 5-6 hours from now. I am still working on it as we speak, | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Weerwolf
75 Posts
On August 13 2013 20:26 Kabel wrote: Here is what I have in mind for the Marauder (Playing around with different values, but still stay close to what is already in the game) HP 100 Armored Cost 75/25 Requires Tech lab? Damage with rocket weapon - 12 vs all, 18 or 20 vs mechanical Damage with flame-weapon - 8 vs all, 16 vs light (Makes them 2-shot Zerglings with +1 weapon upgrade) Attack cooldown 2 seconds on both weapons. Range 5 on the rocket weapon Range 1.5 on the flame weapon Not sure if it shall benefit from the range upgrade, as it currently does, (6 range Marauders too good?) I will try to add some kind of delay or cooldown on the weapon switch The rocket attack is strong vs Stalkers, Vultures etc. It does deal damage bonus vs Immortals, but due to Immortals high dmg, they still seem able to beat Marauders quite easily. So there is not damage bonus vs armored targets, like Lurkers. But those numbers are ofc not final. Maybe it is a good idea to make the flame attack 4x2 and 8x2 vs light? Makes it so that lategame zerglings won't always be 2 shotted, and can keep some potency. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Maybe it is a good idea to make the flame attack 4x2 and 8x2 vs light? Makes it so that lategame zerglings won't always be 2 shotted, and can keep some potency. Yeah might work. Hm.. Attack cooldown 2 sec = the time it takes to switch weapon or the time it takes to fire again? Or is it like the goliath which has two attacks but just follows a priority. Can you chose which weapon it will use? The time it takes to fire again. (The current Marauder in the game has attack cooldown 2 sec) The Marauder can choose what weapon to use via clicking on a button. It starts with the Grenade Launcher "activated", but can click to change. Only one weapon is active at the same time. | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
That way we can also have some sort of particle effect for the switch. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
The weapon is switched immediately and the cooldown also refuses to work. I will try to see if I can fix it. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 13 2013 21:56 Kabel wrote: Yeah might work. Hm.. The time it takes to fire again. (The current Marauder in the game has attack cooldown 2 sec) The Marauder can choose what weapon to use via clicking on a button. It starts with the Grenade Launcher "activated", but can click to change. Only one weapon is active at the same time. Don't give it a switch button. Why? - it already has a "mode": stim - switching stuff is clunky and will only be done before a battle. It doesn't add anything to a battle in terms of micro, unless you make the switch instant - it takes a lot of boring setup work to switch such small units all the time. When you play an engagement based style, chances are pretty that you are in the wrong mode with a lot of your units What you can do instead is: 1) give the marauder two weapons with equal attack speed but different range 2) give the grenade launcher a minimum range (like siege tanks) of 1.5 --> that way a marauder in close combat will always use the flamethrower, while one that is further away will use the grenade launcher --> properly positioning/moving (with and against) marauders will be important, so that they use the right weapon though 2) is optional. If you don't give it a minimum range, the marauder will always choose the best weapon if under 1.5range (I believe, but I'm not sure; I think you can adjust how he chooses the weapon in the data editor) | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
It alone counters lurker/ling style. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I have not completed everything I would like to complete. Stuff is not as smooth as I aimed for. But I will keep working in the editor tomorrow and tonight, since I have more bug fixes and stuff to take care off. I need to take a break now. And then I will upload what I have done so far, so we can try it and see if it is on the right track or not. I can not guarantee the Immortal & Marauder solution will work. It is one thing to try it vs the computer in an isolated context, and an other thing to see it as a part of the gameplay, played by good players. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 14 2013 01:07 Xiphias wrote: Big J. You've just made a unit which kills most of zerg units very efficiently.... It alone counters lurker/ling style. This is extremly situation dependend. Think about Ultralisks. You want punisher grenades against them, no matter what. But you only get them, if you micro well. Then there is AI. Flamethrower mode means that all marauders automatically run forward to kill zerglings. Two weapons mean that they will just fire with whatever they have, which can very well be worse as the marauders at the back won't automicro to deal more damage. Or vis-verca: against ultras you want punisher grenades. But if you just sit there and let them close in you suddenly get flamethrowers. Stalkers might blink on top and immortals may be dropped into marauders to force them into the wrong mode. Dependend on what you play against, it will be a lot about where you stand and how you move. also hydras, mutas are still very strong options. Banelings aren't that bad against marauders, especially when they are clumped. Lurkers do counter marauders anyways as far as I know, or has this changed? (because one of the intentions with the starbow marauder has always been that it was NOT able to overrun tanks or lurkers easily) With modes I just fear it will be frustrating, because you scout what your opponent has: adjust. Then you scout again: adjust anew. You may send the wrong ones to kill zealots/zerglings that harass you. And the newly incoming reinforcements will always be in punisher mode, which you may not need at that point and suddenly you have to start switching them in midst of a combat. Of course that needs testing. But with stim and switchmode I believe you may often just get frustrated with clicking a ton of buttons or losing because you didn't put thought into it every minute of the game. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304955¤tpage=356#7119 I did not manage to fix all bugs and small improvements I wanted to do. So I will probably upload a "fix patch" tomorrow | ||
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Weerwolf
75 Posts
Then again, I am pretty stupid. It is actually a brilliant idea! Even though marauders would be somewhat more allround-ish (which isn't really a bad thing, because they were too narrow), they would require vastly different micro from a marine. Not only that, they would also have AI that would be exploitable, the thing that makes most BW units great. I really think it could create very interesting gameplay. Ofcourse the variables can be tweaked with rocket damage and cooldowns, but the general idea is pretty sweet. Especially if you do things like having the rocket at a larger cooldown (or the flamethrower), so people can exploit a longer cooldown. The only thing you would really have to watch out for is not making both attacks extremely effective. If you have the flamethrower effective with 8x2 vs light (4x2 vs rest) which would 2shot lings all game long except at the end of the game, you need to make sure the rockets aren't too effective, since it would melt zealots and stalkers otherwise. So it would need to be effective vs stalkers, bad vs zealots or the other way around. Since the main problem was with stalkers and the flamethrower attack could actually get in the way, make it the stronger rocket and a weaker flamethrower vs everything (a.k.a. 6x2 vs all or 4x2 vs all). | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
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