EPT[A] Starbow - Page 35
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:10 hersenen wrote: Don't play this game, every patch it gets worse and the map maker refuses to revert any changes. They haven't changed it back to six workers at the start so for the first 30seconds you're just building workers, it doesn't add any variety to the game what-so-ever, only makes the start of the game longer which is the most boring part. There's no reason to 4pool or rax on 4 supply or gateway on 4 supply. You wont have the economy to even support the production you got out so early. However, the creators of this game are apparently too illogical to listen to this and "Just want t3h gaem to be liek brodwarrr". Next they added the firebat which was supposed to replace the marauder but they also kept the marauder? lol what? tl;dr the developers of this mod don't care about polishing things up and actually making the game good, they just keep piling on new stupid units and abilites, a novelty mistake by many game developers. Your complaints seem very minor compared with the standard blizzard game developed by so-called professionals. 4 workers stabilizes the game and makes cheese riskier, all for a mere 30 seconds more? And the firebat and marauder don't overlap half as much as other units in the standard game. I personally would axe the marauder, but that's just me. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 11:10 0neder wrote: I personally would axe the marauder, but that's just me. As would I. I don't like it.  | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On July 11 2012 11:27 Laertes wrote: Trust me Dakota the marauder should have a place, I would like to see some MMM, cause it is a brilliant thing. Trust me on this, I will handle everything. Are you trolling? | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
There is a possibility my friend. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
READ MY LIPS: PAH-THEHHHH - TICK! PS. That's how you troll yo  | ||
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nucLeaRTV
Romania822 Posts
Get out of this forum. PS: Yeah, that's how you do it. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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seve
91 Posts
Edit: Im on now (EU) and happy for everyone that wants to play. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
- Making Protoss able to push out earlier with their few early units. - Teleporting fast defence to a base. - Transfer workers from one base to an other base far away. It was added when Dragoons were in the game. People didn´t walk away with their slow army in the beginning, of risk of loosing it. The swift Stalkers now roams the map freely, even vs Zerg. If Recall still stays in the game, I will make it have a long cooldown (2-3 min) and not require any energy.. (So it does not interupt with Chrono boost, its hard to keep track of which nexus the energy is drained from when you Chroono boost. All of a sudden, the nexus you wanted to use Recall with has lost its energy since you had all nexuses (nexi?) selected in one hotkey when you boosted.) | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On another note. I know Blizz is going to introduce Nexus recall in Hots, but I think it could be done better by making it a separate structure, much smaller. Having units recall surrounding your nexus feels odd, especially with probes in the way. It might be better to make a small structure, similar to a pylon in size, so your units can recall around that. Just a thought. | ||
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seve
91 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 12 2012 03:25 seve wrote: I like the extra structure idea. Even more than upgrading it, because you could upgrade one thing from the cyber core and build the recall beacon at the same time. Now that enables Protoss to do really strong early game pushes (and all ins i guess) without risking too much. I dont know if that would balance out, but well, worth a try. I was thinking that moving Dark Templar tech to the Templar Archives and then having the Dark Shrine model available for the new structure we're thinking of for the Recall structure. /rant +2 armor on a Firebat is way too strong for 75 minerals and 25 gas. They are not classified as armored anyway and they have 3 range which almost out ranges a fucking Hydralisk. Not only that but they have 100 HP. Especially when the armor upgrade for Firebats are 100 minerals and 100 gas. God awfully cheap for what you're getting. Not only that but the Medic is coming into play. Put Siege Tank support behind all the Firebats and it's really really difficult to stop. Honestly, if Firebats need some armor. The Terran should have to upgrade them through the Engineering Bay. Also, please revert the changes to the range of the basic units like Stalkers, Hydralisks, Marines and even Mutalisks back to where they were. Firebats should at least be 50 HP, 2 range, and at least be classified as armor as Hydralisks can't even kill them very well with the +2 armor upgrade leaving them with a total of 3 armor. So that means that Hydralisks do 3 damage every shot without any upgrades to Firebats. Since they are not classified as armored, they don't get dealt extra damage from Hydralisks which makes Firebats own Hydralisks even with the +2 armor upgrade. Not only that but the Firebat is 75 minerals and 25 gas and it way too beafy for its cost. /end rant | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
I still can't build stalkers until the dark shrine is built. When I hover my mouse over the stalker on the gateway, it even says that it requires a dark shrine. So sad. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I agree. Titanium Armor upgrade for Firebats will be axed. They become almost invulnerable now :s On July 12 2012 06:48 pzea469 wrote: I still can't build stalkers until the dark shrine is built. When I hover my mouse over the stalker on the gateway, it even says that it requires a dark shrine. So sad.What version do you have? It requires only cybernetics core for me. Are you on EU or NA? Cause both servers are supposed to have the same version. There are still bugs in the game, but I have set a goal for myself. Before the end of July this MOD shall be "complete", aka all errors are fixed, all units and spells have been decided and everything is as polished as it can be. But the balance work will still continue.. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 12 2012 07:20 Kabel wrote: I agree. Titanium Armor upgrade for Firebats will be axed. They become almost invulnerable now :s Another thing. What was the reasoning to reducing the range from Marines, Stalkers and even Mutalisks etc, by 1? | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
Original Message From Kabel: ... ... ... I also wonder if you would like to do an analysis of Tremor and Point defence Drone? Perhaps you haven´t seen them so much or played with them. (Atleast Tremor. PDD is like in SC2) Earlier I wrote a post regarding this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304955¤tpage=32#629 The reasoning behind Tremor was too give Zerg some kind of area control and pre-combat spell. Something that is actually good to not cast in the combat on top of the enemy. Rather a spell that is about positioning and casting it at the right spots and moments. - You cast Tremor to temporarily gain control of an area. (Control in what way? Forcing out the enemy? Making it hard for the enemy to pick a fight there?) - The problem is that Tremor kills everything in the area it tries to control.. : / Or rather, the problem is that if 6-8 tremors are casted in the same area, its not area control, its area dominance.. the power is overwhelming. And since buildings can´t move, bases fall easy.. Right now Brutalisks are summoned. 200 HP high regeneration of life and ca 30 damage per melee strike.. They are slow, but if they reach the enemy, they deal high damage.. and can tank damage quite well.. Which of these parameters should I increase/decrease to get the effect I theorize about? PDD. The problem is that it can be unstoppable. I´ve had games where 5 Science vessel summons 5 PDD on top of a huge army of siege tanks outside the enemy main base. The enemy can´t get a shoot of and the game is over. I try to avoid spells that are so powerful that if you reach a critical mass of them you can win the game in one battle. Don´t know if that statement is true thought.. : / I like that the PDD says to the enemy: "Don´t take the fight here." Like a life line. You can´t use PDD all the time, but when you use them, you buy some time.. And soon the enemy will be able to attack.. But not right now.. I don´t know why it works so well in SC2.. if people ever use it? Here it is very strong.. Last question: I´ve found an old spell we played with some months ago. You can see it on the picture here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304955¤tpage=32#636 I am considering to add it to the Arbiter, but I am not sure what the spell shall do. Some kind of shield.. That shield vs what? Boring if its an exact copy of Dark Swarm.. Its gonna have to be something useful, something unique and something that feels like Protoss.. ... ... ... Tremor + Show Spoiler + there are several things that can be done with the tremor, I will list the options I can think of and the motivation/explanation of each, and I will list them in reverse favourite order. 1. playing with stats + Show Spoiler + if you want the brutalisks to control the space without killing everything around them, simply make them less deadly, I recommend reducing their damage down to like 5-10 or something and making them a lot faster to compensate. note that 8 or so tremors will still happily destroy a base even with low dps, but they probably will not destroy an army, not by themselves at least. basicly, make the brutalisks require support to actually hold the ground, but act as replaceable meatshields in battle. 3. permanent (or not) tremor that acts as Gas containers + Show Spoiler + tremors do nothing at all, however, when they die the area around them (damages/slows/reduces armor by a bunch(maybe 3 or 4?)/other debuff) to all (enemy units/mechanical units/other cathegory of units). do you not agree that this would give a pretty unique feeling to it while also efficiently defending space (not by themselves though, by themselves they are useless)? because lets face it, sure they need to die to actually do anything, but how easy is it really to make sure none of your units are attacking the little blobs on the ground that will very likely wreck your world if you kill them (assuming a there is a big battle happening)? its pretty hard isn't it? thought so. 4. permanent (or not) tremor and temporary broodlings + Show Spoiler + scrap the brutalisks entirely, make the tremors spawn broodlings instead, with the following stats: broodling: standard stats but lives for 60 seconds, walks around randomly (Critter pathing) until enemy aproaches host tremor (or whatever works best, I dont care about how they recognize threats), cannot be controlled by player (important), perhaps cannot be selected?. tremor: builds instantly upon skill usage, is permanent until destroyed, and spawns 1 broodling every 5 seconds. infestor: either has a limit of max 1 tremor built, or a very very long cooldown. why is this my favourite? because the strength of the thing builds up over time, and completely disallows or slows any enemy movement through the area, in effect its a super spinecrawler which can be summoned anywhere (note however that it is pretty weak within the first minute of being spawned), especially if there are more than one. the battle strength of the tremor is increased greatly by having your army in the area, since if the battle goes on for 20 seconds the tremor will have spawned an additional 4 broodlings on top of the 12 it will have at all times. also note that broodlings benefit from melee and carapace upgrades, so it will be unique in that it is the only static defense which scales with upgrades. and finally it is my favourite because the look of having a bunch of small things running randomly around the tremors like ants feels incredibly zergy. it pleases my inner zerg quite well. Point Defence Drone + Show Spoiler + There are three things which together give the property of "PDD unstoppable", namely these: 1. they stack with each other. 2. they are purely beneficial. (does not stop allied projectiles) 3. the caster is a terran unit. (almost every single unit is ranged and can almost always do some kind of damage without leaving the safety of the PDDs, but most importantly tanks are fairly massable) imagine if zerg had it (you don't need to imagine, they already do!) why does this work out? because theres not much they can attack from inside the dark swarm (because mostly melee, I don't think dark swarm protects air units, else darkswarm/broodlord might be worth experimenting with) imagine if protoss had it, why does this work out? well, it doesn't, but its not as often as it is for terran because it is very difficult to mass siege range units as toss (they would need lots of reavers, but if they have lots of reavers, then that has its own weaknesses) I think the main problem is that they stack with each other, and that there is literally only 3 non-terran ranged units whose attacks are not stopped by PDD (void ray, carrier interceptor attacks and broodlord (indeed, flying broodlings are not stopped by PDD)) so for most point and purposes the PDD is a dark swarm as long as the enemy is not terran. however, the PDD has weaknesses and strengths that the dark swarm does not, namely: 1. can run out by overuse 2. stays for a lot longer 3. discriminates between enemy and allied projectiles as you can see, the one weakness is eliminated by stacking them, and that is why you experience the things you do. however, I must say that stacking 5 PDDs on top of each other is probably not an issue, simply because 5 stacked PDDs can only defend a limited amount of space, if the enemy have 3 bases, then its pretty impossible to defend all of them at the same time, and if he is somewhere where he can force a fight (such as outside your base) then I aplaud him for a well played game, because if he got a contain on you with several siege tanks then I doubt the PDDs was what lost you the game. however, if you insist on changing PDD to make them weaker, then I would recommend making it possible for multiple PDDs to eliminate the same projectile at the same time, and let both consume energy. in other words, its the same scenario as when you asked about banelings, my answer is: make them overkill. but in this case its overkilling projectiles. Arbiter + Show Spoiler + some things I can think of: all protoss units (allied or not) regenerate 20 (synonym to OMFG LOTS!, does not need to be exactly 20) shields per second in the area. all units (maybe all units? maybe just enemy units?) are slowed by a bunch. all units in the field get a penalty to armor (which can go to negative armor) or get a bonus to armor, or enemies get penalty and allies get bonus. an equivalent to the bw stasis field, make all units in the area unable to move, use spells, deal damage and take damage. advanced forcefield: units cannot enter or exit the area, enemies on the inside cannot attack enemies on the outside, and vice versa. units in the area cannot use spells. while a unit in the field has more than 10 energy, it cannot take damage, instead it loses 10 energy and the attacker takes the damage the unit would have taken. (HT tanks ftw!) Recall on seperate building + Show Spoiler + I love it, I recommend the Obelisk, also known as the dark pylon, as the building. the obelisk was a very early alpha building in SC2 and was scrapped at some point in development, so the model is still in the editor. the only things known by the public about the obelisk is that it was a dark templar equivalent of a pylon, and gave both pylon power, supply and had 3 supportive spells which cost energy. http://sc2pod.com/wiki/Obelisk maybe make pylons upgradeable into obelisks/dark pylons | ||
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