EPT[A] Starbow - Page 34
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frogmelter
United States971 Posts
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WhiteKnight
New Zealand134 Posts
How about giving the Queen an Egg popping spell? For 25 Energy the queen can break open an egg effectively spawning the unit inside immediately? Similar to what the queen does in WOL singleplayer. For example you got an Ultralisk morphing and you see an enemy attack on it's way. For 25 Energy you could manually pop the Ultralisks Egg producing the unit straight away. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On July 11 2012 07:36 MNdakota wrote: I have to disagree that the races do not "need" certain spells. I like the race diversity. One race doesn't have to be similar to the other. Every race doesn't need a "defensive" spell or a "control" spell. That will just be even harder to think of ideas either way. The Queen is probably a unit that should be looked at instead of all the other spell casters out there because the Queen is the most undeveloped one. Remember that it is an attacking spell caster and it is 150 minerals so it probably shouldn't be in its place right now. If it were to gain good abilities, then it would have to be moved to another tier. I honestly think that what we've come up with is solid. On an unrelated note. I think Creep Tumors are extremely awkward to deal with and it feels messy to me. I've felt like this even with vanilla StarCraft 2 even. Maybe bring back Creep Colonies so creep is more scary to deal with. I agree that races do not "need" certain spells, I also agree that race diversity is important, I would also say that none of the previous statements invalidates any of what you quoted. it is simply quite strange that, for example, terran has twice as many damage spells as zerg and protoss do combined T (6), Z (2), P (1) and almost twice the snipe spells T (5), Z (1), P (2) now, obviously this is because many terran snipe spells are also terran damage spells, but for a race to have 6 damage spells and 11 units, thats strange, right? the question in this case is "does terran really need 1 damage spell per 2 units?" the answer is no. absolutely not. thus several of these spells are actually redundant. which ones are redundant is a different question, and not one that I plan to answer unless asked to investigate. quick note: if a race have too many spells/abilities that do roughly the same thing, the race will feel boring to play simply because there is little diversity among the races units themselves. a little bit like having a game where there is balance by similarity, such as warcraft 1. as for protoss, which in my opinion is the worst one off on the spell-front, I would like to invite to a thought-experiment: imagine that you play a race which have no spells. what do you do if or when you fall behind? there are no high templars which can exploite an enemy weakness and let you kill a mining line. there are no arbiters to surprise recall into his base. there are no dark swarm to keep your hidden base alive. there is no amazing micro that can turn the tide of a losing battle. protoss dont lack spells or power, per se, they lack options. snipe spells are good for neutralizing key enemy units. damage spells are good for big battles where it is harder for the enemy to defend themselves from it. stop spells are important for exploiting the enemies mistakes and keeping both players alert. pre-combat spells drag the action out over a longer period of time and discourages deathball tactics (because pre-combat spells tend to do a lot of damage to unprepared big armies, possibly turning the tide of battle harshly) mobility spells allows for different playstyles, but are not that important. area control spells create unprecedented strategic depth. supportive/defensive spells are pimpest-play material (at least defensive) and give you options to save your key units from snipe spells and similar. information spells make the game a true battle of the minds rather than a battle of the builds. right now terran is heavy on snipe and damage, which means their playstyle will skew towards just trying to kill the enemy before said enemy gets to use its options. see how this is not good design? terran doesn't try to counteract the enemy movements, they try to eliminate enemy movements. this, among other things, encourages deathball tactics. zerg is heavy on mobility and information spells, while this is not a problem in itself, it makes them weak in battle, note, weak does not mean weak, it means low on options. see how this is not what we want either? (it encourages using auto-attack units instead of spellcasters) protoss have very few spells in general, and thus have to rely mainly on the power of their main army to win games. I can say this without having played many matches because I do my reasearch. thouroghly. note that if they have to rely on their main army that means it is a bad idea to split up, since it is difficult to defend with a small force when the size of the force mainly decides the efficiency of said force. thus having few area-control spells and information spells encourages deathballs, simply because it is safe. but note, while 2 spells can fulfill the same role they do not need to be similar. an excellent example is sniper round vs lockdown, both are snipe spells, but one is a damage spell while the other is not, and the other is a stop spell while the one is not. so yes, I completely agree with you. racial diversity is important. this does not mean universal options are bad. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 08:38 Roblin wrote: so yes, I completely agree with you. racial diversity is important. this does not mean universal options are bad. There are already tons of options. The game doesn't revolve around spells either. If you can give some ideas for the Queen or Arbiter. That would be great! What are you trying to get at mate? | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
They haven't changed it back to six workers at the start so for the first 30seconds you're just building workers, it doesn't add any variety to the game what-so-ever, only makes the start of the game longer which is the most boring part. There's no reason to 4pool or rax on 4 supply or gateway on 4 supply. You wont have the economy to even support the production you got out so early. However, the creators of this game are apparently too illogical to listen to this and "Just want t3h gaem to be liek brodwarrr". Next they added the firebat which was supposed to replace the marauder but they also kept the marauder? lol what? tl;dr the developers of this mod don't care about polishing things up and actually making the game good, they just keep piling on new stupid units and abilites, a novelty mistake by many game developers. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:10 hersenen wrote: Don't play this game, every patch it gets worse and the map maker refuses to revert any changes. They haven't changed it back to six workers at the start so for the first 30seconds you're just building workers, it doesn't add any variety to the game what-so-ever, only makes the start of the game longer which is the most boring part. There's no reason to 4pool or rax on 4 supply or gateway on 4 supply. You wont have the economy to even support the production you got out so early. However, the creators of this game are apparently too illogical to listen to this and "Just want t3h gaem to be liek brodwarrr". Next they added the firebat which was supposed to replace the marauder but they also kept the marauder? lol what? Hey. What's up? You're the guy who called me a pathetic cunt, right? Welcome back! So um, about that thing you were complaining about? That is already fixed. I told you to try out the "CD Quarantine, QQ" map. Nope instead you flame me for whatever reason. Yeah, um. Six workers are already back. Good job mate. You made yourself look like an idiot and not only that insulted everyone who plays the custom map. Including me. Remember to calm down next time keyboard warrior. Have a nice day/night MrSoloDolo! | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:14 MNdakota wrote: Hey. What's up? You're the guy who called me a pathetic cunt, right? Welcome back! So um, about that thing you were complaining about? That is already fixed. I told you to try out the "CD Quarantine, QQ" map. Nope instead you flame me for whatever reason. Yeah, um. Six workers are already back. Good job mate. You made yourself look like an idiot and not only that insulted everyone who plays the custom map. Including me. Remember to calm down next time keyboard warrior. Have a nice day/night MrSoloDolo! Don't bring your stupid drama into this thread. Didn't we just have a lengthy conversation about not talking to eachother and avoiding drama or is your reading comprehension too low? | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:15 hersenen wrote: Don't bring your stupid drama into this thread. Didn't we just have a lengthy conversation about not talking to eachother and avoiding drama or is your reading comprehension too low? Yeah maybe I blocked you so I couldn't read what you were telling me. We never talked. Awkward! Despite whatever the hell just happened. Some new updates are coming up in a couple of days. By the way. Stalker requires Dark Shrine! Big bug. Another note maybe is that we could move the Dark Templar to Templar Archives? Not only that but the Dark Templar is bigger than a Stalker and it looks funny.  | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
Yes, I will help with ideas and telling you bugs and everything and whatever else. Here to help! | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
But I need too know if you will add the spells to the latest version? (The one currently uploaded on EU and NA) Or you have an old version with the content on? (I know you added this stuff a while ago to your version of the mod) If so, please mail it too me so I can add the latest stats from the current version to your older version of the mod. The important thing is that we get the spells to work. Its also important that we don´t have two MODS overlapping. It seems like the guy above played the map with 4 workers. :s | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:47 Kabel wrote: I gave Laertes a list of spells he can add to the official MOD, like Maelstrom, Ensnare etc. By the way, is the Firebat replacing the Marauder or not? Just curious. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:49 MNdakota wrote: By the way, is the Firebat replacing the Marauder or not? Just curious. The thought was that the Firebat would replace the Marauder. But we are currently considering if the Marauder can have a role in the Terran infantery as well. Having only 3 infantery units feels a bit empty.. But it´s also important that each unit in the game adds something to the race.. So I can´t give an answear if the Marauder shall be kept or not at the current state. As we play more, we will see if the Marauder might have a role to fit. If not, it will probably be cut. Perhaps the Medic will make a comeback..  It was in the MOD earlier. It could heal biological units and it could recharge energy to your units. (A blue beam..) The problem with the Medic in BW was that it was extremely narrow.. You had it to heal marines.. The other spells of the medic was useless.. If we find a way to make Medics have more useful spells/abilities, it might make a comeback.. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:55 Kabel wrote: If we find a way to make Medics have more useful spells/abilities, it might make a comeback.. Oh man I would love the Medic so much!  Remember that the Medic does not need to be another spell caster. It does its job to heal infantry! Nothing more, nothing less. On July 11 2012 09:56 Laertes wrote: try not to demotivate me, it could be hazardous to the my morale and motivation. Don't let me take you down. I'm anal about changes to the game that I may not like. Just ignore me completely if you need to. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
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WhiteKnight
New Zealand134 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 11 2012 10:27 WhiteKnight wrote: Im On SEA and NA I also have arcade. Where can I find the latest version of this map to try out? At the moment on NA. The map "CD Quarantine Zone" has the latest version so far. | ||
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