EPTOn July 29 2011 08:28 Barrin wrote:
The minerals at top right and bottom left have 7 mineral patches touching each other so nothing can walk through them (unlike the top left and bottom right). This makes SCV's have a much harder time starting to repair a missile turret that might be placed back there. It also lessens the potential of micro'ing a zealot (with stalkers behind it) or a marine (with more marines/marauders behind it) between the minerals to "filter-AI" zerglings into them (not allowing this lessens skill ceiling IMO).
The 5th bases seem to have 9 mineral fields BTW.
The minerals at top right and bottom left have 7 mineral patches touching each other so nothing can walk through them (unlike the top left and bottom right). This makes SCV's have a much harder time starting to repair a missile turret that might be placed back there. It also lessens the potential of micro'ing a zealot (with stalkers behind it) or a marine (with more marines/marauders behind it) between the minerals to "filter-AI" zerglings into them (not allowing this lessens skill ceiling IMO).
The 5th bases seem to have 9 mineral fields BTW.
The map was built off a 4 base model, so when you refer to the 5th bases I don't know what you mean. Regardless, there are no bases on the map with 9 mineral fields
And those 4 watch towers are awfully close to each other (but I can tell they were carefully placed ^_^).
At first I wasn't really convinced that the rotational imbalance was gone at all in this map. But as I was writing #2 in the following I started to see that you actually did do #2 to a pretty good extent. But it is still flawed (in the late game)
There are pretty much 3 main ways to deal with rotational imbalance (they can be used in conjunction with each other).
(1) Make the third base have less resources (possibly as little as 5 minerals 1 gas). It's really more effective on a style of 12base 4p rotational (and wouldn't really help on this map).
(2) Manipulate the layout, openness, distances, and/or vulnerabilities in such a way that the expansion layout is roughly equal (all things considered) for either position, even though it is rotational symmetry.
(3) Let one player have an easier to take third while letting the other player have an easier 4th and 5th.
I wouldn't suggest changing resource count in this map. And this map definitely doesn't fall under #3. You actually did #2 better than I thought at first... but I have a concern for the late game. Well, the first 5 bases are actually roughly equal and that is rather impressive. But someone spawning at 4 o'clock has an easier 6th, 7th, AND 8th base than someone spawning at 8 o'clock (etc.). I guess this adds the "flavor" where the 8 o'clock position will want to be more aggressive and/or focus more on map control, I just can't really say I'm a complete fan of it here
Overall this map is quite good, though
At first I wasn't really convinced that the rotational imbalance was gone at all in this map. But as I was writing #2 in the following I started to see that you actually did do #2 to a pretty good extent. But it is still flawed (in the late game)
There are pretty much 3 main ways to deal with rotational imbalance (they can be used in conjunction with each other).
(1) Make the third base have less resources (possibly as little as 5 minerals 1 gas). It's really more effective on a style of 12base 4p rotational (and wouldn't really help on this map).
(2) Manipulate the layout, openness, distances, and/or vulnerabilities in such a way that the expansion layout is roughly equal (all things considered) for either position, even though it is rotational symmetry.
(3) Let one player have an easier to take third while letting the other player have an easier 4th and 5th.
I wouldn't suggest changing resource count in this map. And this map definitely doesn't fall under #3. You actually did #2 better than I thought at first... but I have a concern for the late game. Well, the first 5 bases are actually roughly equal and that is rather impressive. But someone spawning at 4 o'clock has an easier 6th, 7th, AND 8th base than someone spawning at 8 o'clock (etc.). I guess this adds the "flavor" where the 8 o'clock position will want to be more aggressive and/or focus more on map control, I just can't really say I'm a complete fan of it here
Overall this map is quite good, though
I appreciate the feedback. I'll definitely correct the mineral field issue, I tested it last night and it absolutely will not do.
As for the late late-game expansion topic you're right, though that's one of those areas that's extremely difficult to eliminate from 4base rotational maps. Unfortunately, I think the only way to truly correct the recurring issues (that you pointed out) in 4base rotationals is to make them cross-spawn only, and I'm not willing to take that step and make the map that predictable.
Ragoo wrote:That middle... a bit of a tower cluster going on there, I hope you put a lot of thought into that.
Overall solid map with nice, solid texturing. It will probably play out well. But nothing really interesting unfortunately I think since Crevasse/Tal'Darim/Terminus are so dominant in tournaments for so long now, new big 4spawn rotational maps have to do something really interesting to be worth it, like Ithaca, Green Harvest, Katrina, Othello etc
Overall solid map with nice, solid texturing. It will probably play out well. But nothing really interesting unfortunately I think since Crevasse/Tal'Darim/Terminus are so dominant in tournaments for so long now, new big 4spawn rotational maps have to do something really interesting to be worth it, like Ithaca, Green Harvest, Katrina, Othello etc
The Towers in the middle were placed very carefully. Take the top left tower for example. If a player holds the top right or bottom left tower, they can't see whether the top left tower is being held based on tower animation, but if the player holding the top left tower had its unit on the bottom side of the tower, it would be revealed. Make sense?
I kept looking at different tower configurations of 1, 2, 3 and 4. Four seems to be the number that keeps things balanced based on spawn locations and still shows a more worthwhile portion of the map. If I remember right, 1 tower only covered like 10.5% of the total map
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After further review for the last week, I think I'm going to remove the terrain "spikes" and light doodads in the middle to open it up some more. With the LOS blockers in the middle, it's key to hold as many towers as possible as the area does feel tighter if you don't. I'm also going to add some additional LOS blockers in certain areas.
Thanks for all your feedback community! Please keep it coming!
*Edit: Typo
Oh, and as an announcement of my next project, a map theme based off the creepiest game I've ever played, Doom 3...
