On June 23 2011 05:50 tsuxiit wrote:
Non-Blizzard ladders are clearly the future of competitive SC2. This is a good start, but I'd say be ready to expand as time goes on. If you keep the map pool competitive and make sure you have a good reliable ranking system I'm sure pros will start to play on it.

I agree 100% with you, the current Blizzard ladder sucks and is extremely imbalanced for competitive play. I will give reasons based on individual problematic ladder maps now:

Scrap Station - Too close for a "close by air" style map making the main easy to attack and hard to defend from aerial harassment or drops. Natural also has open space (literally) behind it making it easy to sneak an attack too. Also the natural is too vulnerable due to destructible rocks and other nasties and too much emphasis on choke points. Any potential third base is additionally very tricky to defend. A definite and instananeous veto for me.
Delta Quadrant - For Zerg, this map is horrendous because you are basically establishing your natural expansion in an area that can easily be flanked with early game aggression while your other natural which is much harder to hit is obscured by rocks. Simply put.... WHY?
Backwater Gulch - Natural is quite hard to defend from early game aggression considering the lack of a narrow choke point (it's admittingly quite wide) and small-ish rush distance. Furthermore, any third base you get will be very, very, very hard to defend. Not good for Zerg.
Metalopolis - In the Blizzard version, you get 3 types of game, either A) A nice macro game where scouting is easy and early game aggression is much harder, B) Close by air games where attacking via air can give you a distinct advantage or C) Close by land positions where the Xel'Naga Watchtowers suddenly become useless, the rush distance between bases becomes tiny and establishing a third under tonnes of potential pressure becomes hard. You cannot tell what your game will be like until initial scouting is complete, in which case, it can completely balls up your build.
Typhon Peaks - Broken in terms of starting positions that are identical by longitude, because the hidden pathway that cannot be scouted via the Xel'Naga Watchtower is not obscured by rocks. I think that either starting positions sidentical by latitude or cross positions should be implemented for balance reasons. Hell.... just cross positions perhaps.

Dexxy

Sweden45 Posts

June 22 2011 21:33 GMT

#103

This actually seems amazing, can't wait for EU version!

Keype

Sweden455 Posts

June 22 2011 21:37 GMT

#104

wow, this is awesome!

Hope u can get in up on eu soon too!

Will be so good to have alternatives to blizzard ladder.

Nelson340

United States1 Post

June 22 2011 21:37 GMT

#105

Is there any reason for the neutral supply depots near bases?

Also, when it comes to rank D, I wish there was a way for the game to tell apart people who are new to the ladder and those who are bad.

goal 888

167 Posts

June 22 2011 21:49 GMT

#106

Played a few games and feel like this is gonna be extremely useful for tryin new builds and findin practice partners

Clbull

United Kingdom1439 Posts

June 22 2011 21:49 GMT

#107

On June 23 2011 06:37 Nelson340 wrote:
Is there any reason for the neutral supply depots near bases?

I presume it's for several reasons:

1) A TvZ bunker marine rush where it was possible for Terran players rushing a Zerg opponent to block the ramp in between bases with two bunkers, which a GSL terrain edit changed although I have a feeling this was part of it too

2) Decorative purposes. The map looks a bit plain without the occasional neutral lowered supply depot dotted around.

GreYMisT

United States6736 Posts

June 22 2011 21:50 GMT

#108

the neutral supply depots are to prevent bunker/pylon wall offs below ramps. and when the game tells you the rank of the player, it also displays wins/losses, so that should aid you in determining the skill of the player.

VelRa_G

Canada304 Posts

June 22 2011 21:56 GMT

#109

Playing tons more SC2 now and never playing Blizzard ladder. Thank you so much for an honest ladder system free of gimmicks.

Synchro

Philippines52 Posts

June 22 2011 22:03 GMT

#110

Very promising! Would love to have this in SEA, too! Great job ntbl!

Glurkenspurk

United States1915 Posts

June 22 2011 22:05 GMT

#111

Just played a game and this is the most badass thing ever. I've been hoping for an iccup style ladder and this is quite amazing. <3

GreYMisT

United States6736 Posts

June 22 2011 22:50 GMT

#112

On June 23 2011 07:05 Odal wrote:
Just played a game and this is the most badass thing ever. I've been hoping for an iccup style ladder and this is quite amazing. <3

It really is a much more relaxing and less stressful form of laddering.

H.k[D]

United States260 Posts

June 22 2011 23:32 GMT

#113

i love this, great job
hope the player base expands ^^

Dhalphir

Australia1305 Posts

June 23 2011 00:05 GMT

#114

Shame that this still really doesn't allow for practising one specific matchup due to not being able to host games with a custom name to them.

Any chance we can get custom maps uploaded with PvZ or PvT for example, in the title? is that workable?

vOdToasT

Sweden2870 Posts

June 23 2011 00:16 GMT

#115

How are you going to prevent people from giving their friends free wins?

epikAnglory

United States1120 Posts

June 23 2011 00:23 GMT

#116

Create ladder with spectators, hope for success. Anyways with all seriousness, I do not think games with spectators should be counted. There will be people that will work with their friends so they could get to top of the ladder.

On June 23 2011 09:16 vOdToasT wrote:
How are you going to prevent people from giving their friends free wins?

Good point as well, you need to set limits to how much times you can play one person like iCCup.

Zurachi

Canada289 Posts

June 23 2011 00:27 GMT

#117

This is actually AMAZING! Major major major props for doing this. I will be doing my best to spread the word and will be playing/practicing on this way more

angrybacon

United States98 Posts

June 23 2011 00:28 GMT

#118

On June 23 2011 09:05 Dhalphir wrote:
Shame that this still really doesn't allow for practising one specific matchup due to not being able to host games with a custom name to them.

Any chance we can get custom maps uploaded with PvZ or PvT for example, in the title? is that workable?

Chat channels are your friend! The 20 map upload limit makes that rather unworkable for the time being. Eventually we'll have an external lobby system.

On June 23 2011 09:23 iTzAnglory wrote:
Create ladder with spectators, hope for success. Anyways with all seriousness, I do not think games with spectators should be counted. There will be people that will work with their friends so they could get to top of the ladder.

Show nested quote +

Good point as well, you need to set limits to how much times you can play one person like iCCup.

That is planned along with online stats.

hoby2000

United States918 Posts

June 23 2011 00:40 GMT

#119

Is there a way to get the winner information from replays? Because if there is, then you could create an application that automatically uploads the reply once it has been created after the game. This way the system can verify that there was truly a victory.

angrybacon

United States98 Posts

June 23 2011 00:42 GMT

#120

On June 23 2011 09:40 hoby2000 wrote:
Is there a way to get the winner information from replays? Because if there is, then you could create an application that automatically uploads the reply once it has been created after the game. This way the system can verify that there was truly a victory.

Top men are working it. Top. Men.