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BIG IMPORTANT UPDATE! TELL YOUR FRIENDS!
GO TO CHAT CHANNEL NTBL FOR GAMES!
LOOK A WEBSITE
NTBL Client Version One: REQUIRES JAVA, should work on Mac & Linux & Windows
This program will monitor a folder you select and automatically upload any NTBL replays placed in that folder. With this, I'm resetting the leaderboard on the website. This leaderboard should /should/ stay up for a while and will be considered the definitive version of the NTBL rankings. The ranks you see in game don't mean anything right now. A future update will have the maps display the online ranking at the beginning of the game.
HOW TO USE:
On June 26 2011 13:40 PartyBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 13:27 Rewdant wrote:
I'm unable to upload replays.
Do i make a new folder and put the replays into it and make the replay location that folder or does it upload the replays automatically from the original replay location? (where all my other replays are kept)
Help needed. 1. Choose the folder first. 2. Leave client open (don't exit) 3. All NEWLY added replays will be counted - the client will say if the upload was successful or not. You probably put your replays in a folder and then selected that folder name in the client - this won't work. If you have already played a few NTBL games that you want uploaded, select your folder name and transfer those replays into that folder while the client is open.
- Run NTBLClient.jar
- Hit find and pick where your replays are going
- This should be either My Documents/Starcraft II/<name>.<code>@1/Replays/Mutliplayer OR My Documents/Starcraft II/<name>.<code>@1/Replays/Unsaved/Mutliplayer depending on whether you have SC2 automatically saving replays. I don't know what the default path is on Macs, but I imagine it's something similar.
- SC2GEARS USERS: For the client to detect replays, the filename must start with [NTBL]. Keep that in mind if you have SC2gears set to rename your replays.
- Let the magic happen
To easily upload all your old NTBL replays[i.e. The ones from before this update]:
- Use the find to pick a folder
- Move all of your NTBL replays into that folder
- Let the client do it's thing.
Leave the client running while you play
Clarification on how the client works! It only uploads replays that are placed in the directory while the client is running. This is to avoid re-uploading replays every time you run the client
DOWNLOAD LINK
Now about what is actually going on here:
http://www.notblizzladder.com/ now with content!
Online rankings are in alpha! Try it out!
Right now, for a game to be counted online, you need to upload it with the online uploader. We haven't written in unique game enforcement yet, so you can just upload the same game over and over again if you really want. Because of this, we will be wiping the database when we write that in, probably in the next day or so. This is all for testing purposes. For science. A client to automatically upload replays is in progress.
After seeing Blizzards latest foray into the realm of map-making and their unwillingness listen to anyone, I decided I'm making my own ladder!
Version 1 of Not The Blizzard Ladder(NTBL) has been released! It's like the iCcup ladder, except Starcraft 2! Features include:
- iCcup ranking system across multiple maps
- No matchmaking, play with your friends! (Yes, it's a feature)
- Observers!
Current Map pool is:
- GSL Crossfire SE
- GSL Bel'Shir Beach
- MLG Xel'Naga Caverns
- GSL Xel'Naga Fortress
- MLG iCCup Testbug
- GSL Terminus RE
- GSL Crevasse
- MLG Metalopolis
- MLG Shakuras Plateau
- MLG Tal'darim Altar
- MLG Typhon Peaks
To find these maps, go to create game and type NTBL into the search bar, and join chat channel NTBL to find games.
Update: Computer players are now counted as rank E.
Update 2: Treat this as preseason. None of the implementation is finalized, I will probably move rankings to a website, and it is really easy to give yourself whatever ranking you want right now.
Planned Features:
- Online Stats YES!
- External Client YES!
- Lobby directory (Using client)
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If You could please explain to me more how this ladder system works? (the ranks and how they fluctuate I mean) Good job if this works by the way!!!
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So it's just a custom map?
How is this a ladder?
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The ranks work just like iCcup did. (E , D+/-, C+/-, B+/-, A+/-, S) You start with 1000 points, and gain/lose points after a game based on your rank and your opponents rank. Your points are stored online and stay between games across all of the NTBL maps.
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I wish the best of luck to you!
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Checked it out, be nice if there was a website, but yeah, I played 1 game against the computer, and 2nd game it showed I was 1-0 with 1100 pts. Pretty interesting.
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I probably need to add something that makes sure computers don't count. I have no idea how the Bank code handles AI players.
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Wow this could be really cool. I'll have to test it out tomorrow when I have more time on my hands.
Good luck man!
Edit: Just checked it out real quick, it would be cool if you implemented a way to make the maps random so it would be more of a matchmaking - ladder system.
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Haha, this sounds like an interesting idea. If lots of people do this it could become a huge thing!
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Why is there no matchmaking? I don't know how hard it would be to implement a formulaic match making system, but as a suggestion: Match-making puts you in range of 200 up or down of your opponent. Winning or losing gives you 50 points up or down.
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Creative name you got there 
However in all seriousness, I really support the idea. It will be really nice to be able to play non-ladder maps with random opponents.
Keep in mind that you really do need to put in some sort of matchmaking system. There is no lobby from which players can pick and choose games like there was for bw, so the players will be relying on the map to match them with someone appropriate.
Also fixing the computer player issue would be good.
Looks like you have some work ahead of you if you want to make this work. Best of luck!
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The current plan for matchmaking is chat channels. There is a NTBL chat channel right now, and as this becomes popular, the idea is to have chat channels for each ranking, NTBL-D, NTBL-D+ etc. To do actual matchmaking like the blizzard ladder has I feel would require me to have direct support from blizzard, unless their mod API really takes off, but that won't be until HoTS at least. If anyone knows some way to accomplish automated matchmaking, please let me know. Right now I am working on making AIs count as E-ranked players.
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Something like this with custom matchmaking could replace the blizzard ladder for me entirely. I'm intrigued!
Needs a chat channel, though!
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Weren't Typhon, Shakuras, Metalopolis, and XNC made by blizzard? Or am I just having an old person moment. If they are maybe you could consider adding maps from Map of the month, or other maps such as neo enigma, or other ICCUP maps. Jus an idea... sounds great to me
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Thank god this is finally happening, i was just thinking today why hasnt this been tried yet.
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this has promise, i look forward to seeing how this progresses 
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Cant people just edit their ranking in the files? I know my friend did this with his score in that Mafia map, I assume it works the same way... I know nothing about map making though.
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On June 22 2011 13:06 Megakenny wrote:
Cant people just edit their ranking in the files? I know my friend did this with his score in that Mafia map, I assume it works the same way... I know nothing about map making though.
I will probably end up adding encryption/checksums later. I'm more worried about getting it working to begin with. I'm pretty sure that it is possible, however.
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looks promising, will be using
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This idea has been tossed around since beta -- I'm not sure it wasn't realized because of pitfalls or lack of motivation, but best of luck to you.
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Looks promising, I'll check it out. If this ends up being awesome and gets rather popular it'll be huge next season with all the new shitty maps coming in.
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On June 22 2011 12:35 wattabeast wrote:Weren't Typhon, Shakuras, Metalopolis, and XNC made by blizzard? Or am I just having an old person moment. If they are maybe you could consider adding maps from Map of the month, or other maps such as neo enigma, or other ICCUP maps. Jus an idea... sounds great to me
You're right but the versions listed are modified for tournament play. Generally they make it so you can't block the bottom of ramps and have no close spawn positions.
I fully support this concept btw.
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On June 22 2011 13:10 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 13:06 Megakenny wrote:
Cant people just edit their ranking in the files? I know my friend did this with his score in that Mafia map, I assume it works the same way... I know nothing about map making though. I will probably end up adding encryption/checksums later. I'm more worried about getting it working to begin with. I'm pretty sure that it is possible, however.
Encryption IS possible but... until encrypted maps themselves are supported (probably won't happen until the Marketplace hits, and you can bet that won't happen until at least HotS) there's no point. Having an encryption algorithm would simply be a deterrent because anybody could just open up the map and reverse-engineer it.
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this looks pretty cool... gonna try it out and see how i like it
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On June 22 2011 14:08 jnkw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 13:10 angrybacon wrote:On June 22 2011 13:06 Megakenny wrote:
Cant people just edit their ranking in the files? I know my friend did this with his score in that Mafia map, I assume it works the same way... I know nothing about map making though. I will probably end up adding encryption/checksums later. I'm more worried about getting it working to begin with. I'm pretty sure that it is possible, however. Encryption IS possible but... until encrypted maps themselves are supported (probably won't happen until the Marketplace hits, and you can bet that won't happen until at least HotS) there's no point. Having an encryption algorithm would simply be a deterrent because anybody could just open up the map and reverse-engineer it.
Ultimately I think the solution would be to add checksums, and have a background app that monitors the bank file and updates to a website. This website would serve as the definitive source for the ladder rankings.
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Definitively going to be playing this and seeing how I like it :D
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Wow, this is a great idea!
Except Terminus RE should be SE
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If somebody gets me an editable version of Terminus SE, I will upload it.
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I will totally join up on this ladder... once I get my ~4000 wins -_-
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On June 22 2011 14:46 angrybacon wrote:
If somebody gets me an editable version of Terminus SE, I will upload it.
I sent you a PM regarding any help you might need. hit me up man, totally willing to be apart of an awesome movement like this!
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One small request once you clear up the major issues - could you allow players to have multiple "accounts" on this map for say their different races and whatnot? That would be just freaking awesome.
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Cool idea.
Can someone explain how the iccup rank system works? What does A, B, etc. means?
I have no idea but as far as I can tell A or B+ on BW is much more impressive tan master or grandmaster on sc2?
Maybe someone can point out a thread about that for me.
Thank you =)
EDIT: Ok, nvm fount the info i asked for.
I'll be playing this SO much.
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i'm definitely playing this
definitely
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It would be cool if this got on the news page or something to get the word out even more. Im not sure how many people check the custom map thread.
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Thanks, that's pretty much what I was planning, more or less.
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On June 22 2011 15:28 Darkbane wrote:
It would be cool if this got on the news page or something to get the word out even more. Im not sure how many people check the custom map thread.
We can always hope for a sympathetic mod to spotlight it :D
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I will definitely use once it is refined (no AI wins etc.)
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On June 22 2011 12:19 angrybacon wrote:
The current plan for matchmaking is chat channels. There is a NTBL chat channel right now, and as this becomes popular, the idea is to have chat channels for each ranking, NTBL-D, NTBL-D+ etc.
Oh yeah, I kinda forgot chat channels existed  It took them so long to implement them when they finally came out I was used to not having them.
Well, if that's the case all that needs to happen is for the AI issue to be fixed. Once that happens, I'll play for sure!
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On June 22 2011 15:51 Zephos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 12:19 angrybacon wrote:
The current plan for matchmaking is chat channels. There is a NTBL chat channel right now, and as this becomes popular, the idea is to have chat channels for each ranking, NTBL-D, NTBL-D+ etc. Oh yeah, I kinda forgot chat channels existed It took them so long to implement them when they finally came out I was used to not having them. Well, if that's the case all that needs to happen is for the AI issue to be fixed. Once that happens, I'll play for sure!
I changed it so AI players are treated as Rank E
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Sounds really cool, I hope this catches on
You should try doing a tournament revolving around this to gain support from players.
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Russian Federation22 Posts
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This is great, just played a few games with my friend, and it felt just like the ol' ICCup days. I really hope this catches on.
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i like this idea, but a website is pretty crucial to the success of this.
I was thinking of a client (iccup) type thing that would sync the bank file on your pc and the websites database, and everything would be handled via the that connection (you gain points through the website and the client updater, not through the map file). (so you can't play the same person X amount of times).
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Good luck with this. I would love play on it when it comes to EU
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WHOO! A ladder that makes sense!
To quote (paraphrase I guess?) iNcontroL (on some old SotG episode), your rank on Blizzard ladder is determined by how shiny your league icon is ^_^
I really hope that this takes off, as this will be really helpful to the community.
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I find this interesting but...
ICCup ladder system is no better than the blizzard ladder system IMO. You can play only your friends and be ranked among everyone ? This is strange. The fact that 90% of players where D/D+ on ICCup also shows that something wasn't working.
There is no perfect way to make a ladder system but at least blizzard system seems a little more honest.
Also I don't see what you have against the new blizzard ladder maps, plus, you say that they never listen to the community but they recently made the GSL maps available on the ladder so... (And these maps are as imba as the blizzard maps).
Good luck in your journey but i'm used to blizzard ladder system and I like it
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I hope this catches on :3.
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This is a good idea and a step in the right direction but the implementation is very, very weak in its current state. Matchmaking through chat channels is not the way to go with this. This might be better used as a "find friends your level to play against" tool rather than an improvement on Blizzard's current ladder system.
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I think that once I get a website going, I might write soft matchmaking and a lobby system into the client.
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Using this as soon as it hits EU.
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If this takes off, I'll definitely use it. Lots of potential here.
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Looks like an initiative on some solid ideas. I wish you the best!
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If this works out please consinder using my next map update ( Takayoni and Kageyoni 2.1 hitting in 1-2 days) for your pool <.< and take out Tal darim altar the map has to big design flaws wich wont allow a proper controled game rather it supports totaly greed pure and the way you can use terrain besides near your 3 bases is far from any good !
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But why the iccup rating system? It seems so arbitrary that you can for example gain points with a sub 50% win percentage in D etc. Why not just go with an ELO rating? Wouldn't that be way more transparent?
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This seems really cool, like how ICCup was. :D
I will definitely be using this.
Hope this works out!
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On June 22 2011 18:02 Patat0r wrote:I find this interesting but... ICCup ladder system is no better than the blizzard ladder system IMO. You can play only your friends and be ranked among everyone ? This is strange. The fact that 90% of players where D/D+ on ICCup also shows that something wasn't working.There is no perfect way to make a ladder system but at least blizzard system seems a little more honest. Also I don't see what you have against the new blizzard ladder maps, plus, you say that they never listen to the community but they recently made the GSL maps available on the ladder so... (And these maps are as imba as the blizzard maps).
Good luck in your journey but i'm used to blizzard ladder system and I like it
Actually, that shows that something is working really well. And no, they aren't even close to the crap Blizzard has put out.
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Please get this going on EU.
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On June 22 2011 18:02 Patat0r wrote:
but they recently made the GSL maps available on the ladder so...
They made one GSL map available on the ladder.
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This looks fun, but i can play vs people who aren't my friend?
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On June 22 2011 22:02 antilyon wrote:
This looks fun, but i can play vs people who aren't my friend?
Right now we have the NTBL chat channel. Matchmaking is a planned feature.
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ok really bad question?
I am a total noob at sc2 and social networking. Chat channel in IRC or on BNET?
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GOGOGO! It can hit big! And i hope Blizz will pay attention to this.
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i guess another name would have been a wiser choice(atleast for making your own ladder, if it works out i will be happy), but good luck nevertheless. With so many ladder haters you might be successful ^.^
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On June 22 2011 23:40 Ashes wrote:
ok really bad question?
I am a total noob at sc2 and social networking. Chat channel in IRC or on BNET?
I'm going to assume he means in game of SC2 bnet.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZUsN8.png)
Was bored at work. Made a logo if you want to use it.
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On June 23 2011 01:15 Centorian wrote:
Was bored at work. Made a logo if you want to use it.
Sexy, I <3 hex grids
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Hmmm, love the idea i will play it when it hits EU
btw how will you make it so like B rank player wont be gaining points with playing against D level player and winning over and over again?
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On June 22 2011 21:56 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 18:02 Patat0r wrote:
but they recently made the GSL maps available on the ladder so... They made one GSL map available on the ladder.
And they added rocks! ^^
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On June 23 2011 01:37 thOr6136 wrote:
Hmmm, love the idea i will play it when it hits EU
btw how will you make it so like B rank player wont be gaining points with playing against D level player and winning over and over again?
This. Also if you have a matchmaking feature or w/e it still needs to be possible to choose which map you want to play on and choose which race you play (idc if that just means manually finding your opponent). Also - it would be sick if you could find a way for having a seperate ladder ranking for playing each race.
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Oh wow. This looks amazing- I'm going to play on this and support this ^_^. The more people it has, the better.
I hope the curve is very steep at the end.
Also: Have you considered talking with the ICCUP people to work together?
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On June 23 2011 01:37 thOr6136 wrote:
Hmmm, love the idea i will play it when it hits EU
btw how will you make it so like B rank player wont be gaining points with playing against D level player and winning over and over again?
Hm, now that i am thinking about it... how about making in your client a chat channel, where you would be placed in according to your rank, chat channel for d-/d/d+ ; c-/c/c+ etc and there you could find people to play with.
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On June 22 2011 12:35 wattabeast wrote:Weren't Typhon, Shakuras, Metalopolis, and XNC made by blizzard? Or am I just having an old person moment. If they are maybe you could consider adding maps from Map of the month, or other maps such as neo enigma, or other ICCUP maps. Jus an idea... sounds great to me
Yes, yes, yes and yes. However, Typhon Peaks, Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis and Xel'Naga Caverns are the maps which people liked from Blizzard.
But the current map pool and map pool available in Season 3 seems crap compared to the map pool for the NTBL. Especially when you consider maps like (s)Crap Station, Backwater Gulch, Delta Quadrant and the Season 3 1v1 ladder maps which just look badly designed and have rocks strewn around everywhere on the map.
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brilliant. we've been needing an alternative to blizzard's flawed ladder. being forced to play on at least on of four garbage maps, as well as close positions gets so frustrating. I like to play fun games, not ones forced into stupid scenarios before anything even happens
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I just want to say this sounds amazing!! I wish I had the abilities to help you out
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Played a game against a silver player so far (I'm Plat). Was fun, and I loved playing on Xel'Naga Fortress. Very excited to play more games on this. Awesome Idea. You should make a website that tracks who plays and their current points to help with match making.
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Get this polished and working ASAPLY!!
Blizzard needs something to show them that their ladder is a piece of crap!
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On June 23 2011 02:24 thOr6136 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 01:37 thOr6136 wrote:
Hmmm, love the idea i will play it when it hits EU
btw how will you make it so like B rank player wont be gaining points with playing against D level player and winning over and over again? Hm, now that i am thinking about it... how about making in your client a chat channel, where you would be placed in according to your rank, chat channel for d-/d/d+ ; c-/c/c+ etc and there you could find people to play with.
If it's anything like icCup, you just get waaaaay less points for beating people in lower levels than you.
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This sounds like an awesome idea with quite some potential! I'll help out some with development if you like. =D
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On June 23 2011 03:49 gensulitor wrote:
This sounds like an awesome idea with quite some potential! I'll help out some with development if you like. =D
Get out matt.
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I love this, gonna play most of my games on it from now on.
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Great idea!!! Was waiting for this all my sc2 life! Finally a playable ladder. Can you put in on EU too please ? =3
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Also can i ask, why you decided to put so many Blizzard maps in ;], this is the first time the community has the choice of maps and you go with the same maps we've been playing since release -.-
anyway I can't wait for this on EU.
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On June 23 2011 04:20 Exstasy wrote:
Also can i ask, why you decided to put so many Blizzard maps in ;], this is the first time the community has the choice of maps and you go with the same maps we've been playing since release -.-
anyway I can't wait for this on EU.
the current map pool is an example of what it can be, unlike the blizzard ladder this mappool can change
in addition to that these are maps which people have liked in general, specifically shakuras and xel'naga, this metalopolis doesnt have close by ground so its fine to play on, over time the maps will be cycled out when ntbl starts working with iCCup more
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I am aware of this, i just thought that even to begin with,
because i CAN play on metal (cross pos) but we still have been playing it since beta,
it's a great balanced map but It's getting a little rinsed.
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On June 23 2011 04:25 Exstasy wrote:
I am aware of this, i just thought that even to begin with,
because i CAN play on metal (cross pos) but we still have been playing it since beta,
it's a great balanced map but It's getting a little rinsed.
Then don't play it. The way I see it, nothing is lost by including any of these maps, since no one is being forced to play them. My map selection was MLG pool + GSL pool.
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i love this! totally amazing, just played a couple games and this is EXACTLY what the community needs! this needs to be spotlighted or something, the word needs to get out! one thing i would say is to add ALL of the popular maps to the pool! there is no reason why we should have our map choices limited, especially since map choice is a consensus between the two opponents. other than that i would have to say this is perfect :D
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Very well then ^_^,
if i could suggest some great maps you might want to look at just for when you might update.
ICCup Neo Enigma - is a great map but i haven't seen alot of.
Asteroid Juction - by JackyPrime
Alpha Stations - by Winpark
Masada - by Winpark.
thanks =D
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Yeah im pretty pumped to ladder on bel'shir beach, been wanting a good game on that map
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We're looking for people experienced in Java to develop a client and web development who can make a website based on mySQL data. PM angrybacon
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This is awesome! I am so excited for this, just yesterday I posted how I would just be playing customs with friends on GSL maps if the pool for HotS shapes up the way its looking but this, THIS! is much better. Very glad someone decided to take on this project.
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I like the current map pool but if I could suggest some maps for the map pool.
NTBL Delta Quadrant:
- Destructible rocks placed obscuring the ramp 'entrances' to the 4 Gold expansions. Makes flanking attacks on the out-of-base natural take more time.
- Destructible rocks blocking the second natural mineral field and Gold expansions removed. Allowing Zerg opponents to easily take a third Crevasse style or just not a natural that is hugely wide open and exposed to attacks.
- Cliffs next to the in-base natural removed, however, the area around it has been widened for drops. Still makes it better for Zerg players.
NTBL The Shattered Temple
- Only cross positions enabled. This map was only bad on close-by-air positions and frickin horrible on close-by-land positions (because the Xel'Naga Watchtower became useless and the rush distance was too small.
- Choke point near the natural narrowed slightly making it slightly easier to defend.
NTBL Desert Oasis:
- Now a bridge connecting the two island expansions to the main map near where the original's Gold expansions are..Island expansions are generally a bad idea anyway.
- The old third bases now have Rich Mineral Fields and Rich Vespene Geysers. Probably deserved because of how vulnerable obtaining that base makes you.
- Another natural expansion has been created outside the ramp leading outside the main, near where the destructible rock blocked ramp is.
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wow nice! This has a lot of potential future. will this be on eu too?
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Definitely interested in trying this out when I get home. angrybacon, please message me if you need help with this; I am an experienced software developer and would be happy to help develop the system, or even just review it a little bit.
Edit: I think that ideally you put this in a public code repository like bitbucket or github so that the community can freely audit and contribute to it, as well as report issues. Then you don't have to worry about addressing the software end of things so much through your website.
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Non-Blizzard ladders are clearly the future of competitive SC2. This is a good start, but I'd say be ready to expand as time goes on. If you keep the map pool competitive and make sure you have a good reliable ranking system I'm sure pros will start to play on it.
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We need more people playing this, it could be huge in the future! Come to channel NTBL! :D
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On June 23 2011 05:58 GenesisX wrote:
We need more people playing this, it could be huge in the future! Come to channel NTBL! :D
I would if I had an NA account. Otherwise, I'm waiting for this to be released on EU.
On June 23 2011 05:50 tsuxiit wrote:
Non-Blizzard ladders are clearly the future of competitive SC2. This is a good start, but I'd say be ready to expand as time goes on. If you keep the map pool competitive and make sure you have a good reliable ranking system I'm sure pros will start to play on it.
I agree 100% with you, the current Blizzard ladder sucks and is extremely imbalanced for competitive play. I will give reasons based on individual problematic ladder maps now:
- Scrap Station - Too close for a "close by air" style map making the main easy to attack and hard to defend from aerial harassment or drops. Natural also has open space (literally) behind it making it easy to sneak an attack too. Also the natural is too vulnerable due to destructible rocks and other nasties and too much emphasis on choke points. Any potential third base is additionally very tricky to defend. A definite and instananeous veto for me.
- Delta Quadrant - For Zerg, this map is horrendous because you are basically establishing your natural expansion in an area that can easily be flanked with early game aggression while your other natural which is much harder to hit is obscured by rocks. Simply put.... WHY?
- Backwater Gulch - Natural is quite hard to defend from early game aggression considering the lack of a narrow choke point (it's admittingly quite wide) and small-ish rush distance. Furthermore, any third base you get will be very, very, very hard to defend. Not good for Zerg.
- Metalopolis - In the Blizzard version, you get 3 types of game, either A) A nice macro game where scouting is easy and early game aggression is much harder, B) Close by air games where attacking via air can give you a distinct advantage or C) Close by land positions where the Xel'Naga Watchtowers suddenly become useless, the rush distance between bases becomes tiny and establishing a third under tonnes of potential pressure becomes hard. You cannot tell what your game will be like until initial scouting is complete, in which case, it can completely balls up your build.
- Typhon Peaks - Broken in terms of starting positions that are identical by longitude, because the hidden pathway that cannot be scouted via the Xel'Naga Watchtower is not obscured by rocks. I think that either starting positions sidentical by latitude or cross positions should be implemented for balance reasons. Hell.... just cross positions perhaps.
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This actually seems amazing, can't wait for EU version!
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wow, this is awesome! Hope u can get in up on eu soon too! Will be so good to have alternatives to blizzard ladder.
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Is there any reason for the neutral supply depots near bases?
Also, when it comes to rank D, I wish there was a way for the game to tell apart people who are new to the ladder and those who are bad.
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Played a few games and feel like this is gonna be extremely useful for tryin new builds and findin practice partners
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On June 23 2011 06:37 Nelson340 wrote:
Is there any reason for the neutral supply depots near bases?
I presume it's for several reasons:
1) A TvZ bunker marine rush where it was possible for Terran players rushing a Zerg opponent to block the ramp in between bases with two bunkers, which a GSL terrain edit changed although I have a feeling this was part of it too
2) Decorative purposes. The map looks a bit plain without the occasional neutral lowered supply depot dotted around.
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the neutral supply depots are to prevent bunker/pylon wall offs below ramps. and when the game tells you the rank of the player, it also displays wins/losses, so that should aid you in determining the skill of the player.
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Playing tons more SC2 now and never playing Blizzard ladder. Thank you so much for an honest ladder system free of gimmicks.
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Very promising! Would love to have this in SEA, too! Great job ntbl!
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Just played a game and this is the most badass thing ever. I've been hoping for an iccup style ladder and this is quite amazing. <3
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On June 23 2011 07:05 Odal wrote:
Just played a game and this is the most badass thing ever. I've been hoping for an iccup style ladder and this is quite amazing. <3
It really is a much more relaxing and less stressful form of laddering.
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i love this, great job
hope the player base expands ^^
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Shame that this still really doesn't allow for practising one specific matchup due to not being able to host games with a custom name to them.
Any chance we can get custom maps uploaded with PvZ or PvT for example, in the title? is that workable?
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How are you going to prevent people from giving their friends free wins?
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Create ladder with spectators, hope for success. Anyways with all seriousness, I do not think games with spectators should be counted. There will be people that will work with their friends so they could get to top of the ladder.
On June 23 2011 09:16 vOdToasT wrote:
How are you going to prevent people from giving their friends free wins?
Good point as well, you need to set limits to how much times you can play one person like iCCup.
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This is actually AMAZING! Major major major props for doing this. I will be doing my best to spread the word and will be playing/practicing on this way more
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On June 23 2011 09:05 Dhalphir wrote:
Shame that this still really doesn't allow for practising one specific matchup due to not being able to host games with a custom name to them.
Any chance we can get custom maps uploaded with PvZ or PvT for example, in the title? is that workable?
Chat channels are your friend! The 20 map upload limit makes that rather unworkable for the time being. Eventually we'll have an external lobby system.
On June 23 2011 09:23 iTzAnglory wrote:Create ladder with spectators, hope for success. Anyways with all seriousness, I do not think games with spectators should be counted. There will be people that will work with their friends so they could get to top of the ladder. Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:16 vOdToasT wrote:
How are you going to prevent people from giving their friends free wins? Good point as well, you need to set limits to how much times you can play one person like iCCup.
That is planned along with online stats.
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Is there a way to get the winner information from replays? Because if there is, then you could create an application that automatically uploads the reply once it has been created after the game. This way the system can verify that there was truly a victory.
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On June 23 2011 09:40 hoby2000 wrote:
Is there a way to get the winner information from replays? Because if there is, then you could create an application that automatically uploads the reply once it has been created after the game. This way the system can verify that there was truly a victory.
Top men are working it. Top. Men.
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I have been thinking about this constantly since the new maps were announced. I hope this gets HUGE! Good work!
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Wow this is great !
I hope this can get kinda mainstream so more ppl play it and Blizzard ladder will go to hell, cuz of their stupidity..
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Great idea! It's alot more fun playing on some of these maps than the normal blizzard ladder deal. Of course, the more people that start playing games on this, the easier it will be to have mostly even matches. As for the whole question of protecting against win-trading, obs cheating, and rank editing, an actual server/client would probably help with this stuff - but even without anything like that I would hope that most people respect the system and realize that its just a game and that you're playing to have fun and/or improve, neither of which cheating helps with.
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This is a really good idea and I hope it happens
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I created an account here just to post in this thread.
I was totally burnt out on Blizzard's ladder. I just couldn't take it anymore.]
Now I have hope. Me and a friend who had pretty much quit playing competitively, only playing customs, are now looking forward to this.
Excellent!
Things I'd love to see:
1) Matchmaking. Yeah, I realize it may be awhile, and this whole thing is in development, but an automated matchmaker would be so awesome.
2) Larger map pool. Or at least, rotate maps frequently. I think that 20 maps is a good pool, but if it has to be smaller, than at least change it up frequently so things don't get stale.
3) No Blizzard maps at all. Hate those. Use player created maps exclusively.
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck.
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This is awesome, the channel has really started to pickup. My two friends and I will be using this a lot now, hopefully I can keep spreading the word.
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Excuse my ignorance, but how exactly would a match maker work for this system? If it is possible, totally badass.
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Great idea here. I appreciate the work you guys put into this. I would love to see iccup Match Point added. I wish that map was used more.
Thanks for the maps and I will try this out when I get a chance!
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Support --
Hope it works out well
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When this gets big I will play it more then the Blizzard ladder. Those new maps look TERRIBLE...
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I doubt you can auto-matchmake, but finding matches in chat channels was never really that bad. Just took a bit more time. It worked fine for ICCUP no reason it shouldn't work for this.
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On June 22 2011 12:35 wattabeast wrote:Weren't Typhon, Shakuras, Metalopolis, and XNC made by blizzard? Or am I just having an old person moment. If they are maybe you could consider adding maps from Map of the month, or other maps such as neo enigma, or other ICCUP maps. Jus an idea... sounds great to me
The above maps were remade for GSL etc, and are very very similar. But have things like no close position spawns, and some have supply depots built & lowered on various ramps to prevent various types of Wall in's.
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Would be awesome if you teamed up with iCCup, just giving the maps that name would make it 100x more popular
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It's a good initiative, but it'll be hard to maintain a solid playerbase without marketing or something.
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Could someone explain to me how ICCUP worked? i never played BW on ICCUP...
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On June 23 2011 17:08 simansh wrote:
It's a good initiative, but it'll be hard to maintain a solid playerbase without marketing or something.
Well, all it really needs is a tournament with a decent prize pool, which adapts this ladder as qualification grounds for players. The bigger the tournament the better. But at this point, any tournament would be enough.
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If anyone here knows PHP and wants to help, please shoot me a PM
We need a webdev!
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This is the best idea ever. A realistic and meaningful ladder and ranking system is what made the iCCup bw experience.
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So these maps aren't on the eu server huh.
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First of all I'd really like to see this on the EU region.
Secondly, I really think there should be more iCCup maps in the pool. The iCCup map pool is a greatly overlooked source for good maps.
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I think the map pool is fine. Generally I just want to see the maps that are being used in competitive play. I don't want to have 20+ maps that I have to learn at any given time in the pool. As long as you keep up with the major tournaments I think its fine.
Personally I think you should stay away from Auto-Matchmaking. Without the AMM feature it forces people into the channel to find games. Suddenly we have active chat channels. When I played this last night I was hanging out in the channel talking about games... joining other games to watch people play. Doing re-matches. It feels like BW. I worry that AMM would take away the personality of a system where you have to find someone you want to play with.
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On June 23 2011 13:20 PariahDrake wrote:
I created an account here just to post in this thread.
I was totally burnt out on Blizzard's ladder. I just couldn't take it anymore.]
Now I have hope. Me and a friend who had pretty much quit playing competitively, only playing customs, are now looking forward to this.
Excellent!
Things I'd love to see:
1) Matchmaking. Yeah, I realize it may be awhile, and this whole thing is in development, but an automated matchmaker would be so awesome.
2) Larger map pool. Or at least, rotate maps frequently. I think that 20 maps is a good pool, but if it has to be smaller, than at least change it up frequently so things don't get stale.
3) No Blizzard maps at all. Hate those. Use player created maps exclusively.
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck.
On the note of 3. Are you kidding me? A few of the Blizzard maps like The Shattered Temple and Metalopolis are actually quite well designed but are spoiled by how different each match can be through the randomness of positioning.
I say only use the TOURNAMENT versions of certain Blizzard maps i.e. MLG Metalopolis where only cross positions are enabled.
I think it's safe to say that none of these maps will be used in their current format, for reasons mentioned below.
1v1test1:
- The Gold expansion is the only truly viable option for a third base, is obscured by rocks and surrounded by higher cliffs, making it very difficult to take and defend
- Destructible rocks seem very badly placed
- The attack positions between close bases are too small. Too much randomness about whether you'd be playing a short close game or a longer macro game until initial scouting. For it to be a tournament option, cross positions are MANDATORY.
- 4 Xel'Naga Watchtowers seems like overkill for a map that small. For maps like Tal'darim Altar, Terminus and Crevasse, they made perfect sense
1v1test2:
- Too small for a 4 player map.
- Raised cliff area near the third is bad as proven by maps like Lost Temple, because of hard-to-combat drops on there.
- Looks like Blizzard just employed a 4 year old as their map designer, said 4 year old started randomly placing destructible rocks on the map editor onto a map they were already designing and then as he was watching the kid plaster the map with rocks, David Kim suddenly had one of those awful "eureka" moments. Yes, the rock placements and the plastering of the map with rocks merge into one of the worst map ideas ever. Blizzard must be crazy to introduce this.
- Doesn't deserve to be in the map pool for the mere fact that it's considered a "Rush" map. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this map seens much worse than Steppes of War did.
1v1test3:
- Probably the best out of the 4 maps.
- Close positions are bad for tournament play. End of.
- The destructible rocks next to the thirds seem like a stupid idea because for a few seconds longer, you can just slip your army past the third undetected in an early attack.
- I think the only way to make this map tournament viable is to enforce cross positions and remove one of the two ramps leading into the third. That way, the destructible rocks would have a purpose and the third would be a bit easier to defend because of that.
1v1test4:
- Why is the lowered cliff area near the smokescreen there? It's just stupid map design.
- The third should be a bit easier to defend. I say remove the ramp where the destructible rocks are and widen the other ramp leading to the third slightly.
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Just tried this with a friend. Nice! I'd love to see this on SEA (the lag on NA is a little too much for us).
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On June 23 2011 13:20 PariahDrake wrote:
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck.
Agreed, this is a great idea and I'd hate to see the wrath of the almighty ruin it.
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On June 24 2011 02:55 bakesale wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 13:20 PariahDrake wrote:
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck. Agreed, this is a great idea and I'd hate to see the wrath of the almighty ruin it.
Seconded...
As much as I agree with the name, it's inflammatory nature might hurt this in the long run.
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On June 24 2011 03:28 dudecrush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:55 bakesale wrote:On June 23 2011 13:20 PariahDrake wrote:
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck. Agreed, this is a great idea and I'd hate to see the wrath of the almighty ruin it. Seconded... As much as I agree with the name, it's inflammatory nature might hurt this in the long run.
I also agree that a name change could certainly benefit the league in the long run. Does anyone have any creative ideas for one though? I'm sure a brainstorm could give Angrybacon some ideas.
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Please publish it on the EU server, until then I am withholding my complements and words of encouragement.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On June 24 2011 05:03 Khao wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 03:28 dudecrush wrote:On June 24 2011 02:55 bakesale wrote:On June 23 2011 13:20 PariahDrake wrote:
4) Change the name. I know, I'm kinda pissed at Blizz too for their ineptitude, but let's be diplomatic. Make a real name, instead of an insult towards Blizzard (even though they deserve it!) and let's see how popular it can get, and how serious people will take it.
Thank you so much for doing this, and good luck. Agreed, this is a great idea and I'd hate to see the wrath of the almighty ruin it. Seconded... As much as I agree with the name, it's inflammatory nature might hurt this in the long run. I also agree that a name change could certainly benefit the league in the long run. Does anyone have any creative ideas for one though? I'm sure a brainstorm could give Angrybacon some ideas.
I say stick with NTBL for the time being, at least until Blizzard attempts to take their map development and ladder improvement more seriously.
If it turns quite big and Blizzard does improve then by all means change the name to something more professional.
On June 24 2011 05:34 SaltyDog wrote:
Please publish it on the EU server, until then I am withholding my complements and words of encouragement.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Seconded. EU release please.
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Fair enough.
Even though I live in NA I think an EU release would be great for popularity.
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So how popular is this on NA already? Are there many people in the chat channel playing?
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On June 24 2011 09:28 `Winter wrote:
So how popular is this on NA already? Are there many people in the chat channel playing?
Consistently ~50 people always in the channel with people up for games
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this is sweet!
this has so much potential. We finally get to play more maps and the devs within this program seem very ATTUNED to the pro scene and will accommodate us fairly quickly compared to blizz. AWESOME.
but yeah we need some kind of soft matchmaking to get games going a bit faster. At least the option to. Finding players faster and getting games rolling quicker will help with the growth.
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Updates to the website! Online ranking alpha test! Check it out!
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Finally a way to play good maps and not put up with close positions, hopefully this works really well
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I dont know howd you do this, but im sure we could get this to the top of the melee popualrity but it would be sick if you could make maps that were specific to your rankign just like the iccup. Example: 1v1 Tal'darim Alter D+. Youd have to make it not auto start, but that would be really cool. You could use this in conjuction with your website, so the host could check the other guys ranking real quick.
I noticed you siad that you were going to have your own match making thing, how do you plan to do that?
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On June 24 2011 10:25 angrybacon wrote:
Updates to the website! Online ranking alpha test! Check it out!
i dont see any changes
ok i see it! it is just very hard to see
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does the A+/- cover a rating range or is it separated like the blizzard ladder (1k broze is weaker than 1k diamond)?
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Very cool. I'll be sure to try out your new ladder system. Thanks!
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On June 24 2011 10:52 gslavik wrote:
does the A+/- cover a rating range or is it separated like the blizzard ladder (1k broze is weaker than 1k diamond)?
No separation, just like iCCup.
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Played 3 games on it i like the system of it showing u it
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This is amazing, can't wait until its finalized
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About the name change: well, might as well give credit where it's due to the creator...the Bacon league? in fact, it barely changes the original name you have now (from NTBL to TBL) xD.
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On June 24 2011 11:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:About the name change: well, might as well give credit where it's due to the creator...the Bacon league? in fact, it barely changes the original name you have now (from NTBL to TBL) xD.
I still like "The League Formerly Known As 'Not The Blizzard Ladder'"
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On June 23 2011 22:06 Centorian wrote:
Personally I think you should stay away from Auto-Matchmaking. Without the AMM feature it forces people into the channel to find games. Suddenly we have active chat channels. When I played this last night I was hanging out in the channel talking about games... joining other games to watch people play. Doing re-matches. It feels like BW. I worry that AMM would take away the personality of a system where you have to find someone you want to play with.
I prefer AMM because it makes it easier to find games. The channels aren't all that good for this, at least not with SC2BW.
I strongly support this idea, by the way. I've been hoping for something like this for months. I knew it was only a matter of time!
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On June 24 2011 11:41 Ribbon wrote:
I prefer AMM because it makes it easier to find games. The channels aren't all that good for this, at least not with SC2BW.
I strongly support this idea, by the way. I've been hoping for something like this for months. I knew it was only a matter of time!
The NTBL channel is actually rather active.
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On June 24 2011 12:12 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 11:41 Ribbon wrote:
I prefer AMM because it makes it easier to find games. The channels aren't all that good for this, at least not with SC2BW.
I strongly support this idea, by the way. I've been hoping for something like this for months. I knew it was only a matter of time! The NTBL channel is actually rather active.
This, 67 ppl in it already and were at two days.
This is helping a ton of people who hate ladder.
Cant wait for match making, going to be epic.
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Good job. Looking forward to having some meaningful games on these maps!!
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People are all asking for matchmaking, but I'm pretty sure this is impossible with the current state of the Blizzard API. If someone knows otherwise do tell. I certainly hope bacon can find a way around this.
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On June 24 2011 12:48 dudecrush wrote:
People are all asking for matchmaking, but I'm pretty sure this is impossible with the current state of the Blizzard API. If someone knows otherwise do tell. I certainly hope bacon can find a way around this.
You dont have to do it through the game, you can do it through the website, have everyone in a chat room and have a program do the matchmaking, you get matched then you go in game and play the person.
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Matchmaking is planned after online ranks.
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I've been playing some games, awesome idea and look forward to future updates.
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On June 24 2011 12:48 dudecrush wrote:
People are all asking for matchmaking, but I'm pretty sure this is impossible with the current state of the Blizzard API. If someone knows otherwise do tell. I certainly hope bacon can find a way around this.
As bacon stated, matchmaking is planned after we get automatic replay uploading working. Likely this will occur using the same client that uploads replays. You will either press a key combination which will be detected or alt-tab and press a button on the client to ask for a matchmaking game. After a short period of time (hopefully enough people will play that it can be short) the client will play a sound, and display a notification. It will then both display the name of a chat channel where you can meet your partner and copy it to the clipboard so you can paste it directly into the channel name. This will avoid having to add your partner to a friends list etc.
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awesome, lets keep this alive and active!
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Played, it's not bad. Hopefully we can keep up the activity though until it's finished (until then it's not bad to just find some matches with like minded people )
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If you could have everyone on your website sign in and then click a button to basically search for an opponent hopefully similar to your skill level and then it spits out a map and your opps name and char code for a game. Then you start it up and you can have the report option afterward it basically would look something like this. Super rough but just an idea.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/ntbl.jpg/
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you should give like a 10s or 15s grace period for people to leave the game without losing points if people lie about their rating or whatever
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On June 24 2011 14:37 rauk wrote:
you should give like a 10s or 15s grace period for people to leave the game without losing points if people lie about their rating or whatever
ICCUP gave people like 2min or something...can't remember the exact amt.
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On June 24 2011 14:37 rauk wrote:
you should give like a 10s or 15s grace period for people to leave the game without losing points if people lie about their rating or whatever
Hidden feature: you have about 27 game seconds right now.
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Make it like the Wgt was (very nice european ladder from Broodwar). GL.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tc5fy.png)
Which one of you was this?
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This is a really great idea and I am fully in support of it.
I just wanted to throw this idea out there... I don't know if it will be feasible or not...
You might see if you can contact the guys at sc2ranks.com about leaderboards and rankings. Perhaps they'd even be willing to implement a "NTBL Ranking" stat on players' profiles in the future. Who knows... just thought I'd throw the idea out there.
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Would be awesome if all top players were to move to this or something. I doubt it but wish you the best of luck as this is definitely a good step forward ^^.
Only thing is I can see it being abused by friends to get a high rank
Actually what would be really cool is if you could get teamliquid to support this a lot somehow. Not sure if thats actually possible but yeah. I really hope this becomes popular for anyone playing competitively :D.
Good luck thinking of the possibilities has me excited as the blizzard ladder system just blows right now and their crappy maps are annoying .
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Only read the OP and the first page of comments because gstl is about to start
Is this gonna be on EU too? Looks like it has potential.
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On June 24 2011 18:03 xsksc wrote:Only read the OP and the first page of comments because gstl is about to start Is this gonna be on EU too? Looks like it has potential.
He said he'd publish it on other servers eventually once he's not making so many frequent changes to it. I'm waiting on SEA too, except SEA gets a free US account so it ain't so bad :D
Also, Dual Sighttttt
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in full support of this although i would like to see typhon peak taken out and dual site put in or just add dual site, ty for organizing and coming up with this idea angrybacon
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Can't wait to try this out!
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Hope this works, I kinda liked ICCUP way of laddering
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Hey guys I'm working with Bacon and we've drafted this FAQ. This will be up on the main site tonight, but for now refer people here for repeated questions =)
- Is “Not the Blizzard Ladder” the final name for this project?
- No. We’ve had a number of people point out this might upset Blizzard, and we don’t want to hurt their feelings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. We love Blizzard for making such a fantastic game. We just wanted a different laddering system, and the name was chosen to get your attention. Obviously, it worked. AngryBacon still likes The League Formerly Known as “Not The Blizzard Ladder”, or TLFKANTBL.
- When will “NTBL” be released?
- Sometime this summer. Right now we are in pre-alpha phase, and we’re treating all of you like developers/in-house testers. Both the client side application and server/website will go through the traditional alpha-beta releases before a v1.0 is made public.
- How do I get in the alpha/beta?
- You’re in it, and as long as you keep playing the NTBL maps and uploading them here you don’t have to worry about the official state of the project. Barring a server threatening explosion in popularity you should be fine. However, the leaderboard and points will be reset as needed throughout development.
- Where can I find games?
- Go to the NTBL channel on B.net and find a date.
- Will there be matchmaking?
- In the future, possibly. However, we want to make this better than the standard ladder, so it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to reuse flawed implementations of a generally good idea. If we can do it better, we will.
- Will more/different maps be added?
- Sure. We’re starting with the MLG/GSL pool because they’re widely played and respected as good maps. This is a great opportunity for the community to decide what maps to play on though, and you’ll get this opportunity in the future. In order for a map to enter the map pool, we need an editable version to submit. The versions of the MLG and GSL maps that are posted on B.Net are locked and cannot be edited for NTBL. If you can find editable versions of maps that we need (Right now Dual Sight, an up to date Terminus & Xel’Naga Fortress), please let us know
- Will this be released outside of North America?
- That’s the plan, but only NA for now! Sorry!
- Where can I submit bug reports?
- Here: notblizzladder@gmail.com
- How can I help?
- Right now we have a small team of web/ application developers working on the various parts of this project. If you are quite familiar with PHP, SQL, or Java, you’re welcome to e-mail notblizzladder@gmail.com and we’ll see if there’s something for you to do!
- Find editable, up-to-date versions of maps
- Otherwise, keep playing the maps, uploading replays, and finding places we messed up.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
Thank you so much and I wish you the best of luck. This is a great project! Keep up the good work
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On June 24 2011 13:21 meursault wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 12:48 dudecrush wrote:
People are all asking for matchmaking, but I'm pretty sure this is impossible with the current state of the Blizzard API. If someone knows otherwise do tell. I certainly hope bacon can find a way around this. As bacon stated, matchmaking is planned after we get automatic replay uploading working. Likely this will occur using the same client that uploads replays. You will either press a key combination which will be detected or alt-tab and press a button on the client to ask for a matchmaking game. After a short period of time (hopefully enough people will play that it can be short) the client will play a sound, and display a notification. It will then both display the name of a chat channel where you can meet your partner and copy it to the clipboard so you can paste it directly into the channel name. This will avoid having to add your partner to a friends list etc.
This is genius! I feel kinda stupid not to have thought of this tbh...
Not having to use your friends list is also a really good idea.
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I think this is an amazing idea and thanks for doing it. Just wanted to say that the map Terminus is RE and tournaments use SE with the rocks at the 3rd.
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On June 25 2011 03:38 dudecrush wrote:
Not having to use your friends list is also a really good idea.
Chat channel.
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On June 25 2011 03:48 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 03:38 dudecrush wrote:
Not having to use your friends list is also a really good idea. Chat channel.
That's what I meant >.<, That using a chat channel was a great idea.
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Once this first "independent ladder" is fully implemented, it would be nice to extend it to support multiple ladders - different people would prefer to play on different sets of maps as their ladder. So, you may have that in mind while designing the current ladder implementation. In either case, this is great!
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These are some big plans!
Best of luck to you!
Edit: Just a few questions for now, as time goes on, will there be channels like NTBL (D) or NTBL(B) that are for players of that skill rank? Or will this external client have this feature implemented?
Are your final goals looking like a ladder system nearly identical to the ICcup format and how it was played out?
Like I said before, I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses, keep at it guys!
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On June 25 2011 04:11 Blixy213 wrote:
These are some big plans!
Best of luck to you!
Edit: Just a few questions for now, as time goes on, will there be channels like NTBL (D) or NTBL(B) that are for players of that skill rank? Or will this external client have this feature implemented?
Are your final goals looking like a ladder system nearly identical to the ICcup format and how it was played out?
Like I said before, I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses, keep at it guys!
He said that, assuming it gets popular enough he does plan on having different channels for different ranks just like iccup. Really hoping this catches on to like every competitive player including the pro's. Would be amazing.
rooting for this to be super successful! Again good luck guys :D
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By far my favorite detail so far with NTBL is that "Player 2" is on the Leader Board, has wins, and is ranked higher than several people.
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I'd like to help with the programming (for any of it really depending I guess) (though don't rely on me too much atm, as I'm currently trying to balance my life with (this?), actual playing of SC2, other work (school, job/freelancing) ^_~
where/who do I contact..
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On June 25 2011 04:33 Jermstuddog wrote:
By far my favorite detail so far with NTBL is that "Player 2" is on the Leader Board, has wins, and is ranked higher than several people.
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
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I didn't play BW other than UMS games so I'm not familiar at all with now iCCup worked, but this does sound like a really cool idea. I'll be sure to check it out.
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If the popularity if this ends up getting pretty big and matchmaking is difficult to implement, you should setup a system of rank separated channels people can join to find opponents of a similar level, just like ICCUP did.
NTBL D- 1
NTBL D 1
NTBL D 2
NTBL D 3
NTBL D+ 1
NTBL D+ 2
NTBL D+ 3
NTBL C- 1
NTBL C- 2
NTBL C 1
NTBL C 2
NTBL C+ 1
etc etc
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I love this ladder so much.
Edit: FAQ'd!
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I haven't read through the entirety of the posts (besides the OP), but I hope you get TL to give this thread some love! Sounds great, and keep up the good work!
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BIG IMPORTANT UPDATE GO READ IT
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Bacon... put the NTBL chat channel thing back at the top of the tread in red bold text. It's sorta buried in the middle of the OP and it is very important...
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the program works on linux and amc only?
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just so you know, my SC2BW mod uses iccup rating system aswell. (atleast it used to, i took it out to redesign it, next version will feature a much improved version of it.)
your welcome to look at it and see how i've done some things
such as, bank encryption using starcode, recording match up statistics, recording misc stats, etc.
however you seem more capable than me with a website and such. gl.
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wow this idea just keeps getting better by the day.
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On June 25 2011 12:16 MavercK wrote:
just so you know, my SC2BW mod uses iccup rating system aswell. (atleast it used to, i took it out to redesign it, next version will feature a much improved version of it.)
your welcome to look at it and see how i've done some things
such as, bank encryption using starcode, recording match up statistics, recording misc stats, etc.
however you seem more capable than me with a website and such. gl.
I looked into doing starcode encryption, but since we are doing ranking online with MySQL, there's no reason for it. Match up statistics etc are probably a good idea, but won't be implemented in galaxy code.
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Just played some games... Lost horribly.
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Woah! I just checked this out the other day and it's amazing to me that a java client + functional site have appeared in such a short time. O_O Kudos to you, angrybacon (and anyone else working on this, if there are any)!
I might just have to give this a try.
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On June 25 2011 12:03 Korxo wrote:
the program works on linux and amc only?
ROFL what? He said it SHOULD work on Linux and Mac...why on earth would an app be made for a 1% minority that applies to the entire community...it's a java applet, it runs on anything that can run java, which of course includes Windows.
This is awesome, hoping to see this take off big time.
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On June 25 2011 15:00 stormfoxSC wrote:
Woah! I just checked this out the other day and it's amazing to me that a java client + functional site have appeared in such a short time. O_O Kudos to you, angrybacon (and anyone else working on this, if there are any)!
I might just have to give this a try.
TY stormfox. There is a team of developers working literally around the clock on various parts of this project with our fearless leader angrybacon at the head! What that means is we'll be rolling out features/patches frequently. So keep playing and keep checking back at the site!
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This ladder is amazing and I truly hope it gets a TL spotlight come on mods this is a great project that deserves some love!
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This is fantastic, and I love you for doing this. That is all :D
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If we on EU were to run the applet and upload our replays would they all go towards the same rankings on the site?
that is when we get the maps.
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I would love to see this on EU!
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Trying this for the first time today. I'm excited! Hopefully this grows into something the TL community can be proud of.
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On June 25 2011 21:05 Exstasy wrote:
If we on EU were to run the applet and upload our replays would they all go towards the same rankings on the site?
that is when we get the maps.
As it is set up right now, yes. I will probably add a realm field to the database.
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It would be really cool if this could get featured so more people could find out about it, great jobs guys and keep up the god work.
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I'm thinking that this should maybe get moved to general instead of maps, but w/e.
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On June 26 2011 07:22 angrybacon wrote:
I'm thinking that this should maybe get moved to general instead of maps, but w/e.
general threads tend to rise and fall in a short period of times. However ongoing projects like yours and the Brood War map project should do well over here.
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This is awesome; F TBL, long live NTBL. I'll be playing games all night!
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Hey AngryBacon, Just a thought on the looks of the java program that you (or someone else designed). They might want to utilise SWT for the look and feel of the program.
I recently used it for our java project for a business. Utilises native windows rather than relying on swing for the look and feel, which looks a little tacky in my eyes.
Just a helping pointer. Would love to help out, if you need someone who can code some PHP and java (CS major from the UK) PM me.
Thanks.
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can you upload this to eu thanks
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On June 26 2011 08:21 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:22 angrybacon wrote:
I'm thinking that this should maybe get moved to general instead of maps, but w/e. general threads tend to rise and fall in a short period of times. However ongoing projects like yours and the Brood War map project should do well over here.
Thing is, less people will see it too
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One thing you might want to encourage is for people to try and play some games on a regular map. I know the purpose of the NTBL is to be able to play on better maps in the first place
- but if you can get people to play on say Crevasse at least somewhat regularly, it may be able to increase at least one of your [NTBL] tagged maps to reach higher popularity in the custom maps which can help to promote more people finding out about it. Also, you should try and create a custom loading screen for [NTBL] maps - with information about the NTBL chat channel and the basic purpose of NTBL, again to help more people find out.
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I'm unable to upload replays.
Do i make a new folder and put the replays into it and make the replay location that folder or does it upload the replays automatically from the original replay location? (where all my other replays are kept)
Help needed.
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On June 26 2011 13:27 Rewdant wrote:
I'm unable to upload replays.
Do i make a new folder and put the replays into it and make the replay location that folder or does it upload the replays automatically from the original replay location? (where all my other replays are kept)
Help needed.
1. Choose the folder first.
2. Leave client open (don't exit)
3. All NEWLY added replays will be counted - the client will say if the upload was successful or not.
You probably put your replays in a folder and then selected that folder name in the client - this won't work. If you have already played a few NTBL games that you want uploaded, select your folder name and transfer those replays into that folder while the client is open.
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On June 26 2011 11:23 PartyBiscuit wrote:
One thing you might want to encourage is for people to try and play some games on a regular map. I know the purpose of the NTBL is to be able to play on better maps in the first place
- but if you can get people to play on say Crevasse at least somewhat regularly, it may be able to increase at least one of your [NTBL] tagged maps to reach higher popularity in the custom maps which can help to promote more people finding out about it. Also, you should try and create a custom loading screen for [NTBL] maps - with information about the NTBL chat channel and the basic purpose of NTBL, again to help more people find out.
This is a good idea but doesn't this only work if they players make the game public before they start?
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Please relase it on EU. I hate the blizzard ladder and i dont want to play on it.
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how long does it take for the results of an uploaded replay to show up on the online ladder?
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A couple of updates:
- AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
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On June 27 2011 01:46 angrybacon wrote:A couple of updates: - AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
Wow thats awesome. Do you know if it will be possible to stop ladder abusing with like a friend or 2 ?
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On June 27 2011 04:33 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 01:46 angrybacon wrote:A couple of updates: - AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
Wow thats awesome. Do you know if it will be possible to stop ladder abusing with like a friend or 2 ?
The way ICCUP did this was by only allowing you to play a certain amount of games vs. certain opponents. This would work even better than in BW because each person only gets 1 account.
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On June 27 2011 04:33 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 01:46 angrybacon wrote:A couple of updates: - AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
Wow thats awesome. Do you know if it will be possible to stop ladder abusing with like a friend or 2 ?
That will be out in the next few days, approximatly following iCcup rules.
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On June 27 2011 06:24 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 04:33 blade55555 wrote:On June 27 2011 01:46 angrybacon wrote:A couple of updates: - AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
Wow thats awesome. Do you know if it will be possible to stop ladder abusing with like a friend or 2 ? That will be out in the next few days, approximatly following iCcup rules.
Ah awesome, I didn't know if that was going to be possible or not :D.
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On June 27 2011 06:45 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 06:24 angrybacon wrote:On June 27 2011 04:33 blade55555 wrote:On June 27 2011 01:46 angrybacon wrote:A couple of updates: - AI Games don't count
- Games shorter than 1 game minute don't count
- The website doesn't suck as bad
Wow thats awesome. Do you know if it will be possible to stop ladder abusing with like a friend or 2 ? That will be out in the next few days, approximatly following iCcup rules. Ah awesome, I didn't know if that was going to be possible or not :D.
Yeah, I already have timestamped match history in the SQL, I haven't written the checks for gametrading yet though. Also, I've been told the site will have match history sometime soon.
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I think this should be a featured thread. It's really nice and it really needs to get as much exposure as possible, maybe on day it'll be the main ladder for SC2.
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still waiting for EU version :X
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On June 27 2011 09:11 ObserverSix2One wrote:
still waiting for EU version :X
NTBL is in alpha, and it is not a complete product. Think of NA as an alpha-testing region. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out, it will most likely be pushed out to other regions.
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On June 27 2011 09:15 equ1n0x wrote:NTBL is in alpha, and it is not a complete product. Think of NA as an alpha-testing region. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out, it will most likely be pushed out to other regions.
More like pre-alpha.
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On June 27 2011 09:42 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 09:15 equ1n0x wrote:On June 27 2011 09:11 ObserverSix2One wrote:
still waiting for EU version :X NTBL is in alpha, and it is not a complete product. Think of NA as an alpha-testing region. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out, it will most likely be pushed out to other regions. More like pre-alpha.
Its progressing nicely thanks for working on it its an awesome idea ^^.
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this seems great!
when alpha phase is over, do you think stats will become global?
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Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
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On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him.
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On June 27 2011 09:15 equ1n0x wrote:NTBL is in alpha, and it is not a complete product. Think of NA as an alpha-testing region. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out, it will most likely be pushed out to other regions.
yeh makes sense, just wanted to know if It's a days or weeks [or months] waiting, but you pretty much answered that, thanks.
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On June 27 2011 14:35 ObserverSix2One wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 09:15 equ1n0x wrote:On June 27 2011 09:11 ObserverSix2One wrote:
still waiting for EU version :X NTBL is in alpha, and it is not a complete product. Think of NA as an alpha-testing region. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out, it will most likely be pushed out to other regions. yeh makes sense, just wanted to know if It's a days or weeks [or months] waiting, but you pretty much answered that, thanks.
I believe that the website portion of the team is working on accepting eu replays right now. It's partly just a matter of deciding how to show it on the website and how to handle it in the database.
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On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him.
I was suspicious as well, but indeed he is just good. I played him on a pretty close match and he beat me fair and square. Also his match history shows NTBL wins against mostly master league players.
EDIT: Also, on other note. Bacon, it'd be nice to add a WLR column on the site if possible. Thank you!!!
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On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him.
And there will never be matchmaking. That would defeat the purpose of this project... haha.
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There is a new version of Bel'Shir Beach being used in the GSL, just a heads up :o
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On June 27 2011 19:13 hoby2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him. And there will never be matchmaking. That would defeat the purpose of this project... haha.
Also, it's apparently illegal =P
On June 27 2011 15:46 Fede wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him. I was suspicious as well, but indeed he is just good. I played him on a pretty close match and he beat me fair and square. Also his match history shows NTBL wins against mostly master league players. EDIT: Also, on other note. Bacon, it'd be nice to add a WLR column on the site if possible. Thank you!!!
WLR = win/loss ratio?
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On June 27 2011 22:22 EpicTRC wrote:
WLR = win/loss ratio?
Yep
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On June 27 2011 20:20 Nefariously wrote:
There is a new version of Bel'Shir Beach being used in the GSL, just a heads up :o
Where is thread about this?
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On June 27 2011 22:22 EpicTRC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 19:13 hoby2000 wrote:On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him. And there will never be matchmaking. That would defeat the purpose of this project... haha. Also, it's apparently illegal =P
He said there might be some day.
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I can't believe this isn't featured.
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omg this is so good!!!!! i will probably try this
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On June 28 2011 00:03 sjschmidt93 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 22:22 EpicTRC wrote:On June 27 2011 19:13 hoby2000 wrote:On June 27 2011 13:37 angrybacon wrote:On June 27 2011 13:12 XXXSmOke wrote:
Any ETA on Matchmaking? Looking at the current top standings already shows some abuse..
23-0 .
Actually, he's just good. He is playing different people most games. Someone needs to win against him. And there will never be matchmaking. That would defeat the purpose of this project... haha. Also, it's apparently illegal =P He said there might be some day.
We'll be changing the FAQ. We can't do matchmaking, as it's explicitly forbidden in the Terms of Service. There are other ways to encourage matchups based on equivalent skill and we'll be implementing that in the future, but anything resembling the matchmaking service Blizzard has is a no go.
On June 27 2011 23:58 Fede wrote:Yep
I can put that up tonight ^_^ Good suggestion.
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Going to start playing games in this ASAP.
Nice to finally be able to play something other than blizzard crappy maps with no need to have friends online.
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I really hope this takes off, its a really cool idea.
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just seems like too much hassle for each match though =\
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On June 28 2011 09:05 JiYan wrote:
just seems like too much hassle for each match though =\
I agree, it will take some serious creativity to get around the matchmaking system. Team Liquid is a creative bunch, I have faith something will be discovered.
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On June 28 2011 09:05 JiYan wrote:
just seems like too much hassle for each match though =\
play bw on iccup, was the same thing . match making is nice but i wouldn't mind being able to host games again.
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Played a little bit this afternoon and loved it. Casually finding a match and picking a map is so much better than "OMG PLAYER FOUND WHAT MAP IS IT WHAT RACE ARE THEY WHAT STRATEGY AM I GOING TO DO?!?!"
I think as this gets bigger and the rankings get stabilized, rank-named rooms (like NTBL-A, NTBL-B) are the best way to find even matches. Personally I think matchmaking is unnecessary, and if blizzard says it's against the ToS then there's absolutely no way they would ever let it happen, even with a clever workaround.
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On June 28 2011 09:05 JiYan wrote:
just seems like too much hassle for each match though =\
Well when there is only a small group of people on it its tough. If it gets bigger it will become ez.
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On June 28 2011 10:49 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:05 JiYan wrote:
just seems like too much hassle for each match though =\ Well when there is only a small group of people on it its tough. If it gets bigger it will become ez.
yup, here's to hoping all the pro's eventually switch to this or anyone playing competitively :D
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I am trying to work things out with Blizzard. There are large updates in the works, and because everything is in a somewhat stable state, I am waiting until things are worked out to make a release.
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On June 28 2011 13:30 angrybacon wrote:
I am trying to work things out with Blizzard. There are large updates in the works, and because everything is in a somewhat stable state, I am waiting until things are worked out to make a release.
you are talking to blizzard about doing this mod or whatever?
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Just had an interesting thought. Lets say this becomes big like iccup and everyone starts using it. With no matchmaking people would be more inclined to pick the matchup we they are best at. For me it would be ZvT. No at first glance that would be kind of dumb. But if your opponnent is best at TvZ (to the point where thats all he wants to play) then he would likely have a god TvZ as well. So what I see this leading too would be better matches. Simply put, if you can choose your best matchup, assuming no cheese, then the will be good games. For example, ZvZ would only be chosen by two opponents who both like ZvZ alot. Meaning no "7 pool double spine for easy win herp derp" bullshit
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On June 28 2011 14:47 Mr. Enchilada wrote:
Just had an interesting thought. Lets say this becomes big like iccup and everyone starts using it. With no matchmaking people would be more inclined to pick the matchup we they are best at. For me it would be ZvT. No at first glance that would be kind of dumb. But if your opponnent is best at TvZ (to the point where thats all he wants to play) then he would likely have a god TvZ as well. So what I see this leading too would be better matches. Simply put, if you can choose your best matchup, assuming no cheese, then the will be good games. For example, ZvZ would only be chosen by two opponents who both like ZvZ alot. Meaning no "7 pool double spine for easy win herp derp" bullshit
I think ultimately the goal of this is mostly to provide a practice ground that has a good map pool and more open skill metric than the blizzard ladder. Real competition happens in tournaments and I don't see that changing. If people avoid certain match-ups, they are only hurting themselves. Also, we do plan on adding match-up statistics in the future.
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On June 29 2011 06:16 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:47 Mr. Enchilada wrote:
Just had an interesting thought. Lets say this becomes big like iccup and everyone starts using it. With no matchmaking people would be more inclined to pick the matchup we they are best at. For me it would be ZvT. No at first glance that would be kind of dumb. But if your opponnent is best at TvZ (to the point where thats all he wants to play) then he would likely have a god TvZ as well. So what I see this leading too would be better matches. Simply put, if you can choose your best matchup, assuming no cheese, then the will be good games. For example, ZvZ would only be chosen by two opponents who both like ZvZ alot. Meaning no "7 pool double spine for easy win herp derp" bullshit I think ultimately the goal of this is mostly to provide a practice ground that has a good map pool and more open skill metric than the blizzard ladder. Real competition happens in tournaments and I don't see that changing. If people avoid certain match-ups, they are only hurting themselves. Also, we do plan on adding match-up statistics in the future.
so your in the talks with blizzard about this? or did I misread your post about that?
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On June 29 2011 09:53 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:16 angrybacon wrote:On June 28 2011 14:47 Mr. Enchilada wrote:
Just had an interesting thought. Lets say this becomes big like iccup and everyone starts using it. With no matchmaking people would be more inclined to pick the matchup we they are best at. For me it would be ZvT. No at first glance that would be kind of dumb. But if your opponnent is best at TvZ (to the point where thats all he wants to play) then he would likely have a god TvZ as well. So what I see this leading too would be better matches. Simply put, if you can choose your best matchup, assuming no cheese, then the will be good games. For example, ZvZ would only be chosen by two opponents who both like ZvZ alot. Meaning no "7 pool double spine for easy win herp derp" bullshit I think ultimately the goal of this is mostly to provide a practice ground that has a good map pool and more open skill metric than the blizzard ladder. Real competition happens in tournaments and I don't see that changing. If people avoid certain match-ups, they are only hurting themselves. Also, we do plan on adding match-up statistics in the future. so your in the talks with blizzard about this? or did I misread your post about that?
More like trying to get in talks with blizzard, and they're just kind of ignoring me.
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On June 29 2011 10:50 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:53 blade55555 wrote:On June 29 2011 06:16 angrybacon wrote:On June 28 2011 14:47 Mr. Enchilada wrote:
Just had an interesting thought. Lets say this becomes big like iccup and everyone starts using it. With no matchmaking people would be more inclined to pick the matchup we they are best at. For me it would be ZvT. No at first glance that would be kind of dumb. But if your opponnent is best at TvZ (to the point where thats all he wants to play) then he would likely have a god TvZ as well. So what I see this leading too would be better matches. Simply put, if you can choose your best matchup, assuming no cheese, then the will be good games. For example, ZvZ would only be chosen by two opponents who both like ZvZ alot. Meaning no "7 pool double spine for easy win herp derp" bullshit I think ultimately the goal of this is mostly to provide a practice ground that has a good map pool and more open skill metric than the blizzard ladder. Real competition happens in tournaments and I don't see that changing. If people avoid certain match-ups, they are only hurting themselves. Also, we do plan on adding match-up statistics in the future. so your in the talks with blizzard about this? or did I misread your post about that? More like trying to get in talks with blizzard, and they're just kind of ignoring me.
Ah ok thats what I kind of figured that blizzard would ignore it for the most part 
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This is so much fun =D Played games all afternoon, had no problems finding people to play against. I enjoy this much more than regular ladder due to no close positions. I find that the people that play this cheese ALOT less. Out of the 15 games I played today I only got cheesed once (cannon rush in PvP). So, for all the people out there that hate being cheesed and want to practice their play this is a great place to do so. Also, NTBL is a great way to meet friends and form practice partners. On the regular ladder you hardly talk to your opponent outside of gl hf. NTBL gives you more of a chance to chat after the game, or get a bo3. Overall, AMAZING UMS. 10/10.
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Hey bacon, I played a game today where the guy dropped at 1:07 game was RevUlfsark vs Bensin on Xel Naga Caverns. Please make it so it does not count this game thanks!
Also let me know if there is a better place to mention things like this.
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sorry for asking again but can anyone explain how ICCUP works in BW?
did you just find an opponent?
how did you restrict people playing people their skill? like D's not going to play with A's
how to restrict people from only playing 1 map? (e.gg an easy map for one race?)
How did they restrict people from only playing 1 matchup? or keep on playing one person?
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The problem I see is that the custom maps are too abusable by cheats....you have almost no way of deterring hackers whereas on the Blizzard Ladder, they have the power to monitor and ban hackers. Blizzard won't monitor custom game hacks because quite frankly that's a massive job to do and there's really not much consequence to it. It's hard enough to police just the Blizzard Ladder.
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this is pretty brilliant. can't wait to try it out!
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On June 29 2011 22:17 Hopelessnoob wrote:
sorry for asking again but can anyone explain how ICCUP works in BW?
did you just find an opponent?
how did you restrict people playing people their skill? like D's not going to play with A's
how to restrict people from only playing 1 map? (e.gg an easy map for one race?)
How did they restrict people from only playing 1 matchup? or keep on playing one person?
You joined the server (iCCup) and based on your rank you were moved to a channel.
Ladder D (1-X)
Ladder C (1-X)
Ladder A-B (1-X)
D was for D-/D/D+
C was for C-/C/C+
A-B was for B- until Olympic (the one above A+)
You wrote in channel for example
[B+] me Terran MOTW /msg
this means you are B+ and you only want to play against B+, you're Terran and you want to play the map of the week (always 2 maps or a few more). After you got messaged you can host a game and play.
If you play on MotW it was +130 points (vs equal rank), if you lose -X (depends on the rank, iirc -140 if you were A- and higher, -100 if B- until B+, -75 for C ranks and -50 for D-Ranks)
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On June 29 2011 16:47 Ulfsark wrote:
Hey bacon, I played a game today where the guy dropped at 1:07 game was RevUlfsark vs Bensin on Xel Naga Caverns. Please make it so it does not count this game thanks!
Also let me know if there is a better place to mention things like this.
notblizzladder@gmail.com is a good place. We look there everyday, like we do here, but it's less likely it will be missed there.
On June 29 2011 22:17 Hopelessnoob wrote:
sorry for asking again but can anyone explain how ICCUP works in BW?
did you just find an opponent?
how did you restrict people playing people their skill? like D's not going to play with A's
how to restrict people from only playing 1 map? (e.gg an easy map for one race?)
How did they restrict people from only playing 1 matchup? or keep on playing one person?
I think you'll find that we're not big on restrictions. Just the opposite, we're trying to give you more options. We don't "restrict" you from playing against higher/lower level players, though the number of points you receive or lose varies depending on your relative rating. Why would a D not play an A? All A's start at D to begin with.
We don't restrict you from playing one map, but it's also evident that people are using this ladder as more of a tournament practice ground. After all, that's why we chose this map pool. You're more than welcome to play one map all the time, but good luck learning anything/getting better (not directing this at you, just the hypothetical person you're describing). Perhaps your rating will go up, but that doesn't matter at a tournament. Same goes for only playing one matchup.
We do restrict you from playing the same person multiple times in a given day. You can keep playing the same person but you won't keep receiving points. We'll also be monitoring for win trading.
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@naruto :D thanks man. So happy you answered. <3 your play
@epic I was just wondering how did iccup handled this.
Also regarding d's playing A. Many good players would prefer to not noobie bash, rather play better players and practice (i assume this. I am just a noobie x.x) so I would think when this map goes more mainstream (hoping :D)
People of rank D may just keep trying to cheese A's and that may not be really fun.
Also, I think ICCUP's map of the week is a great idea. Mabye NTBL can think of implementing this to diversify map usage?
Hope this grows and become the main ladder for SCII :D.
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If you have someone at rank D playing someone of rank A, if the A player wins, he gets 10 points (which is hardly anything), and the D player loses nothing, and if the D player wins, he gets 200 points, and the A player loses 280.
As for cheating, we do keep all replays, so if you report someone for cheating, we can examine those.
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I love this idea.
Too bad I'm on EU though... But since this system doesn't care about ping and things like that, I hope to use it soon.
Keep on guys !
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On June 30 2011 01:52 -Zoda- wrote:
I love this idea.
Too bad I'm on EU though... But since this system doesn't care about ping and things like that, I hope to use it soon.
Keep on guys !
Hmm..
Considering it is replay-based, is it possible to make it work cross-region? As in, the client will accept the replays from all servers? Might be a bit tricky but it would be nice if you could log in to any server and it would affect the same rank on here.
This is a pretty cool system, stuff like this could be the future of Starcraft if Blizzard proves incapable.
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On June 30 2011 02:13 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 01:52 -Zoda- wrote:
I love this idea.
Too bad I'm on EU though... But since this system doesn't care about ping and things like that, I hope to use it soon.
Keep on guys ! Hmm.. Considering it is replay-based, is it possible to make it work cross-region? As in, the client will accept the replays from all servers? Might be a bit tricky but it would be nice if you could log in to any server and it would affect the same rank on here. This is a pretty cool system, stuff like this could be the future of Starcraft if Blizzard proves incapable.
If we do multiple regions, we will do a ladder for each reasons. Partially because it wouldn't make sense to have commingled ratings in separate player sets, and mostly because the unique identifier we are using is only unique across a single region.
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Can we get this on EU please?
It'd be AWESOME.
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Just thought I'd point out that almost no tournament used Terminus RE. The newer version is SE.
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I was just getting interested in this, then I see it's apparently not on EU.
Why is this? D:
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On June 29 2011 22:44 novabossa wrote:
The problem I see is that the custom maps are too abusable by cheats....you have almost no way of deterring hackers whereas on the Blizzard Ladder, they have the power to monitor and ban hackers. Blizzard won't monitor custom game hacks because quite frankly that's a massive job to do and there's really not much consequence to it. It's hard enough to police just the Blizzard Ladder.
The thing about cheating is if you know he cheated by watching the replay or something. You can make sure to never play him again and just ignore him. Tell other people. Then he won't be able to play again. Also reporting to blizzard doesn't hurt even though they take forever to ban .
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I'd play this ladder just for the maps lol
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On June 30 2011 03:33 Asday wrote:
I was just getting interested in this, then I see it's apparently not on EU.
Why is this? D:
it's not finished yet so there's barely anything to release on EU, they are working on it :D i can't wait either.
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Does this require both players to upload the replays to count? Any rules on who is supposed to upload the replay (although I'm sure the winner will alt-tab and drop the replay in the folder in a heartbeat).
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On June 30 2011 06:12 Razith wrote:
Does this require both players to upload the replays to count? Any rules on who is supposed to upload the replay (although I'm sure the winner will alt-tab and drop the replay in the folder in a heartbeat).
Only one player needs to upload, either player can do it.
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I am certain you have already thought of this but you guys should add a stats page, with matchup/maps statistics, I am more interested in which maps are played most than I am matchup percentage.
I
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Angrybacon: Is there anything I can do to help this project?
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I think this is a fantastic product, and love everything about it!
I'm going to start it up fully tomorrow, i have been waiting for something like this!
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@angrybacon I hope u implement this on the other servers soon. I play on SEA and I'd love to see NTBL implemented there.
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This definitely has potential, but is Blizzard okay with the client?
On June 30 2011 15:19 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
@angrybacon I hope u implement this on the other servers soon. I play on SEA and I'd love to see NTBL implemented there. You could offer to host it on SEA yourself if you wanted to...
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have u considered adding sanctuaria and hysteria to the map pool? (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238769)
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On June 30 2011 17:12 AnxiousHippo wrote:This definitely has potential, but is Blizzard okay with the client? Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 15:19 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
@angrybacon I hope u implement this on the other servers soon. I play on SEA and I'd love to see NTBL implemented there. You could offer to host it on SEA yourself if you wanted to...
Yes, I'm definitely willing to host it but someone will have to tell me how, I don't have any idea what hosting entails. I hope it isn't too upload intensive task - our uploads in india are capped pretty hard, I get upload speeds of 10KBPS.
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your Country52797 Posts
I attempted to find a gold league player or lower to play against me.
15 minutes later, I was practically screaming with anguish at everyone saying "Master league game plz"...
Bottom line, not many noobs on it 
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Very good for practice games.
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This is great for low level players like me who want to get better. Everyone on there so far is willing to help me get better. In the 7 games I've played, I've already improved 10-fold. Also the Blizz ladder sucks.
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On June 30 2011 18:15 Anomandaris wrote:
have u considered adding sanctuaria and hysteria to the map pool? (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238769)
I've been in touch with iGrok.
On July 01 2011 01:13 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:I attempted to find a gold league player or lower to play against me. 15 minutes later, I was practically screaming with anguish at everyone saying "Master league game plz"... Bottom line, not many noobs on it
Protip: Just say D player looking for game :D
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Angrybacon,
Could we get a status update? What is the team working on/waiting for right now? Do you have a list of features that are planned in the final release?
A small blog like setup for people to track development on the website would be awesome.
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On July 01 2011 03:38 Akzever wrote:
Angrybacon,
Could we get a status update? What is the team working on/waiting for right now? Do you have a list of features that are planned in the final release?
A small blog like setup for people to track development on the website would be awesome.
I like this idea. I'll see if we can't put a little something up tonight =)
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Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes.
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On July 01 2011 04:46 Loes wrote:
Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes.
If you find me an editable version of it :D
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This has been my savior since everybody started using the drop hack. Sad that blizzard cant keep hacks out of their own ladder. So happy to play games without getting dropped every other game.
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On July 01 2011 05:36 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 04:46 Loes wrote:
Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes. If you find me an editable version of it :D
I'd also like to see Dual Sight added to the pool. Oh, and the version of Xel'Naga fortress on the NTBL is outdated - there is a newer one with a timer on the watch tower.
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On July 01 2011 08:01 PBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 05:36 angrybacon wrote:On July 01 2011 04:46 Loes wrote:
Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes. If you find me an editable version of it :D I'd also like to see Dual Sight added to the pool. Oh, and the version of Xel'Naga fortress on the NTBL is outdated - there is a newer one with a timer on the watch tower.
What do you mean by a timer?
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On July 01 2011 15:47 AnxiousHippo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 08:01 PBJ wrote:On July 01 2011 05:36 angrybacon wrote:On July 01 2011 04:46 Loes wrote:
Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes. If you find me an editable version of it :D I'd also like to see Dual Sight added to the pool. Oh, and the version of Xel'Naga fortress on the NTBL is outdated - there is a newer one with a timer on the watch tower. What do you mean by a timer?
The Xel' Naga tower disappears after a certain amount of time.
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On July 01 2011 15:54 Ulfsark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 15:47 AnxiousHippo wrote:On July 01 2011 08:01 PBJ wrote:On July 01 2011 05:36 angrybacon wrote:On July 01 2011 04:46 Loes wrote:
Any plans to update Bel'sheir beach to the current version? I believe the current GSL version has two watch towers among some other changes. If you find me an editable version of it :D I'd also like to see Dual Sight added to the pool. Oh, and the version of Xel'Naga fortress on the NTBL is outdated - there is a newer one with a timer on the watch tower. What do you mean by a timer? The Xel' Naga tower disappears after a certain amount of time.
Its 7mn if i remember correctly
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real time or ingame time?
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I was fairly certain it was 8 minutes. Gametime. (Obviously.)
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loving what is going on with the website, keep up the good work!
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this thing is sick. it updates on the website pretty much immediately
i can't wait until it's developed further and starts getting more press
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I could really see this taking off with some more well known players starting to use it, but still.. pretty kick ass
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If you need someone to help host this on EU, i'll gladly help.
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Very interesting, would love to see this on EU, will gladly play it once it's hosted over here.
I mean, these maps are just way more interesting to me than the blizzard maps, sure hope a lot of people start playing this.
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IVe been playing on NTBL as much as possible lately and have to say that as a gold level player it has helped my game more than anything else I've tried. It's given me the chance to play diamond and master level players and get feedback from them after. Thanks for putting this together AngryBacon.
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On July 04 2011 01:30 IMBensin wrote:
IVe been playing on NTBL as much as possible lately and have to say that as a gold level player it has helped my game more than anything else I've tried. It's given me the chance to play diamond and master level players and get feedback from them after. Thanks for putting this together AngryBacon.
I couldn't agree more as a Silver player. The people playing on the NTBL are very helpful and willing to give advice to us scrubs. I've improved 10x since I started playing on the NTBL.
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Pretty sweet ill definitely play some games here.
Kinda tired of PVP on shit maps.
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I installed it, then joined the channel and was all by myself. Argh, if it is working out on NA, plz get it to EU too.
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Is there any way to upload tell the client the reps if we didn't have the client open when we played the game? Maybe this would be a good idea to implement?
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Is there a lowering player count? That's sad to see, around the beginning the channel would regularly have 50-60 players in it, now it's only around 15-30...
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On July 05 2011 05:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Is there a lowering player count? That's sad to see, around the beginning the channel would regularly have 50-60 players in it, now it's only around 15-30...
It is a holiday weekend for a large part of the NA server's population
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Blizzard wont stomp this out?
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On July 05 2011 06:41 DyEnasTy wrote:
Blizzard wont stomp this out?
I think the way this works is that you run a program that uploads your replays to a server, which tells the program how good you are, so the program can write a bank file that the map reads, so your opponent knows how good you are. If this is the case, I believe it is against EULA, 'cause you're not meant to edit game files, but this is both cool, and bank files aren't included with the game.
Assuming I'm not wrong, there's no way BE would particularly not want this, and no way they could get rid of it under their own terms.
EDIT: I'm pre-emptively joining the NTBL chan on EU, btw. Can't wait to play this at all. FINALLY a ladder with non-shit maps.
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On July 05 2011 05:50 PBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 05:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Is there a lowering player count? That's sad to see, around the beginning the channel would regularly have 50-60 players in it, now it's only around 15-30... It is a holiday weekend for a large part of the NA server's population
Except the numbers seemed to have a linear decline, and have been happening for at lesat the past week. Plus if anything, a holiday means more time to play , fireworks are only for night after all.
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What is the planned way to detect unique games? having both players running the program (simultaneously), and uploading the same version of the replay at the same time?
Could work pretty decent that way I think.
As it is right now if I play people on NTBL maps and they are running the launcher, will I automatically be put on the NTBL ladder?
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I think I remember them saying that only one player needs to be running the client. If you play someone else who is running the client, the client will upload the replay with your name included and presumably add you to the system.
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On July 05 2011 15:34 Xapti wrote:
What is the planned way to detect unique games? having both players running the program (simultaneously), and uploading the same version of the replay at the same time?
Could work pretty decent that way I think.
As it is right now if I play people on NTBL maps and they are running the launcher, will I automatically be put on the NTBL ladder?
First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Second question: yes, that may change, however.
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Whats going on with the progress of the client?
Is it at a standstill? Or does it just seem that way?
The other day EpicTRC said he would try and get a dev/update blog going on the site, whats going on with that?
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On July 06 2011 08:30 Akzever wrote:
Whats going on with the progress of the client?
Is it at a standstill? Or does it just seem that way?
The other day EpicTRC said he would try and get a dev/update blog going on the site, whats going on with that?
Fourth of July weekend
We're gearing up for something big
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This seems like a really nice alternative to the Blizzard ladder, Any word when we could expect this on EU?
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On July 06 2011 10:57 nonneb wrote:
This seems like a really nice alternative to the Blizzard ladder, Any word when we could expect this on EU?
Sometime after the next client release.
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On July 06 2011 09:32 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 08:30 Akzever wrote:
Whats going on with the progress of the client?
Is it at a standstill? Or does it just seem that way?
The other day EpicTRC said he would try and get a dev/update blog going on the site, whats going on with that? Fourth of July weekend We're gearing up for something big
now you starting to sound like incontrol, don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
can't wait for the next client release so I get to play this on EU, hope that we will have about 50-30 people in there too :X
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Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins.
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On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote:
Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins.
client has to be on for the games to count.
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I can't wait until this rocks off. Its sooo much fun to play on the GSL maps. The people that play this rarely cheese, so its nice to be able to get good practice in. <3 NTBL
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This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game.
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On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote:
Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins.
The other person uploading the replay.
On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote:
This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game.
There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection.
On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote:
don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AX1I9.png)
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On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote:
First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good.
Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed.
While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well.
(the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common)
Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played.
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I'm liking this very much, easy to find games, easy to practice builds, much less daunting than the normal ladder. I feel as if I have less invested in it than the normal ladder, which is a great stepping stone to not being afraid of laddering anymore. Just a tip though, not for you, but for players; don't forget to set your race since it's a custom. -_-
Thanks for making this, I'm sure it took a lot of effort, and it's very much appreciated.
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On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote:
First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played.
We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating.
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On July 06 2011 14:05 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote:
First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played. We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating.
Personally I couldn't care less about the ladder points, the things I care about are being able to choose my opponent, play the match up that I want to play, not being forced to play mirror which IMO is completely boring, being able to challenge a rematch.
I think all of those things are much more important than the ladder points, and add much more fun to the game.
let's assume someone does manage to hack the system and gets tons of points, do you really care? I don't, I still have all of the other features which make the game 100% more fun then playing the normal ladder. [I don't really have NTBL yet, I assume based on what guys said on the forum.]
Actually I really don't understand why people in EU don't just log into the channel and play themselves.
=/ Meh,
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On July 06 2011 17:59 ObserverSix2One wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 14:05 angrybacon wrote:On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote:
First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played. We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating. Personally I couldn't care less about the ladder points, the things I care about are being able to choose my opponent, play the match up that I want to play, not being forced to play mirror which IMO is completely boring, being able to challenge a rematch. I think all of those things are much more important than the ladder points, and add much more fun to the game. let's assume someone does manage to hack the system and gets tons of points, do you really care? I don't, I still have all of the other features which make the game 100% more fun then playing the normal ladder. [I don't really have NTBL yet, I assume based on what guys said on the forum.] Actually I really don't understand why people in EU don't just log into the channel and play themselves. =/ Meh,
This. Seriously, who cares if some loser wants to spend the time to hack the system for literally no benefit. This isnt about rank, its about choosing your opponent and maps, GOOD MAPS. I literally dont give a !@#$ if some guy wants to make a bunch of fake replays so he can pretend he's A+ or something lol. I also don't think anybody would do it unless this became the main ladder everyone uses, including pros, and we aren't there yet.
Basically there are more important things to focus on right now than preventing hackers from gaming the system, like matchmaking or something. Has there even been an incident of someone submitting a fake replay? seriously, its not an issue right now.
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Most "heavy" security things, have to be anticipated beforehand.
It may not be a priority right now, but they probably have to at least lay down a solid base for it.
It's quite hard to make an application without caring about security and then implementing a total system while the application is in full use.
So it's probably a good way to work on it now, they do have to find a balance between what is needed and what could be done later, but laying some solid, easily extensible, security bases seems necessary.
Good work, Btw .
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This is an awesome idea and has so much potential. If you can get this to take off I think it will be huge.
Maybe request a spotlight on TL?
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote:
Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote:
This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote:
don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup
Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it.
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On July 07 2011 01:15 jackalope1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote:
Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote:
This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote:
don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it.
This is what I am hoping for. I really do hope all players playing competitively switch to this. Would be like iccup again :D
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On July 07 2011 07:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 01:15 jackalope1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote:
Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote:
This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote:
don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it. This is what I am hoping for. I really do hope all players playing competitively switch to this. Would be like iccup again :D
That's not concept art.
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AngryBacon (and team)
Thats looking fucking awesome!
What sort of Release schedule are you going for?
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Holy crap this is amazing!
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Really nice job, im interested to see more progress on that program shown in the screenshots
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I will try this, looks interesting.
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On July 07 2011 14:53 Klesky wrote:Unzip it, then run it.
Oh shit I feel dumb. I did have it unziped but I kept on clicking on the zip folder
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On July 07 2011 14:56 -Jacob- wrote:Oh shit I feel dumb. I did have it unziped but I kept on clicking on the zip folder
I've done that a few too many times. When you load the program don't get weirded out when you don't see replays in there too, i got confused but it only shows ones that you played while you loaded it. And if you refresh it, it will clear it.
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when this gets a full release will it be put on EU as well? id love to ladder this way rather than using the regular ladder. the NTBL chat channel on EU is always empty lol
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like it cuz of the BW feeling and the maps, looks really promising.
does it work for EU server aswell?
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Yeah I love this NTBL. I'm mid-diamond on blizz's ladder but usually I get cheesed and just rage quit. With NTBL I can actually play a normal game without having to worry about a lame cheese coming my way.
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can still cheese just maps arent as good for it
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On July 08 2011 04:12 -Jacob- wrote:
Yeah I love this NTBL. I'm mid-diamond on blizz's ladder but usually I get cheesed and just rage quit. With NTBL I can actually play a normal game without having to worry about a lame cheese coming my way.
People will still cheese you on this ladder so instead of blaming your losses on that everyone else is terrible maybe you should learn to defend a little aggression and stop complaining that everyone won't leave you alone until you have your brood lords up. Less qq more pewpew.
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On July 08 2011 02:43 th3_great wrote:
when this gets a full release will it be put on EU as well? id love to ladder this way rather than using the regular ladder. the NTBL chat channel on EU is always empty lol
I'm chilling in the NTBL channel whenever I'm online. If you talk I'll reply, so long as I'm looking, and not in a game.
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On July 08 2011 09:57 Asday wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 02:43 th3_great wrote:
when this gets a full release will it be put on EU as well? id love to ladder this way rather than using the regular ladder. the NTBL chat channel on EU is always empty lol I'm chilling in the NTBL channel whenever I'm online. If you talk I'll reply, so long as I'm looking, and not in a game.
Same here i'll come look for ya, look for DragonFury
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On July 08 2011 10:29 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 09:57 Asday wrote:On July 08 2011 02:43 th3_great wrote:
when this gets a full release will it be put on EU as well? id love to ladder this way rather than using the regular ladder. the NTBL chat channel on EU is always empty lol I'm chilling in the NTBL channel whenever I'm online. If you talk I'll reply, so long as I'm looking, and not in a game. Same here i'll come look for ya, look for DragonFury
In the EU one? Sure. I'm Asday. :DD
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nice that you made a new ladder lol... but i still like blizzard ladder more because i can get paired with people of my skills.
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On July 08 2011 04:25 oskarla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 04:12 -Jacob- wrote:
Yeah I love this NTBL. I'm mid-diamond on blizz's ladder but usually I get cheesed and just rage quit. With NTBL I can actually play a normal game without having to worry about a lame cheese coming my way. People will still cheese you on this ladder so instead of blaming your losses on that everyone else is terrible maybe you should learn to defend a little aggression and stop complaining that everyone won't leave you alone until you have your brood lords up. Less qq more pewpew.
This is so true. If you can't properly scout and react to cheese, you don't actually know how to play a long macro game.
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On July 08 2011 13:50 ElusoryX wrote:
nice that you made a new ladder lol... but i still like blizzard ladder more because i can get paired with people of my skills.
I sort of agree with this, but I really enjoy being matched up against ultra gosu people like RevUltrasark (or whatever that name is). They're all really nice about offering advice at the expense of their time. It's the best way to get better.
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Would it be possible to make some sort of external feature that automaticly pairs me up with players who are also using the program? Or at the very least, some sort of IRC channel outside Bnet incase the offical bnet channel is full?
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On July 08 2011 18:05 Bswhunter wrote:
Would it be possible to make some sort of external feature that automaticly pairs me up with players who are also using the program? Or at the very least, some sort of IRC channel outside Bnet incase the offical bnet channel is full?
See that screenshot I posted?
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I for one have no idea what that screenshot means.
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On July 09 2011 15:58 Silent_J wrote:
I for one have no idea what that screenshot means.
As far as I can tell, it's a channel system for NTBL, not sure if it will have match-making capacity.
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On July 08 2011 14:25 Silent_J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 13:50 ElusoryX wrote:
nice that you made a new ladder lol... but i still like blizzard ladder more because i can get paired with people of my skills. I sort of agree with this, but I really enjoy being matched up against ultra gosu people like RevUltrasark (or whatever that name is). They're all really nice about offering advice at the expense of their time. It's the best way to get better.
<3
I need to take down bannon! His crown shall be mine!
I mean like I need to beat him, not take his spot, well both actually.
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On July 09 2011 16:58 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 15:58 Silent_J wrote:
I for one have no idea what that screenshot means. As far as I can tell, it's a channel system for NTBL, not sure if it will have match-making capacity.
Look harder.
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Do both players need to have the client downloaded?
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On July 11 2011 02:46 wattabeast wrote:
Do both players need to have the client downloaded?
No, if one player has the client running correctly, it counts it for both players.
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On July 11 2011 02:46 wattabeast wrote:
Do both players need to have the client downloaded?
no just one
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This sounds so promising, ty OP, perhaps we will get enough active players to have games constantly going.
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Channels dying pretty rapidly Only 3 ppl in it right now. We gota get this back up.
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well damn id much rather play this than the shittu blizzard ladder. hope some more people show some love!! i love every single map in the pool! gunna try this out.
edit: just played a few rounds, works great! And the maps are just amazing. no more close positions on metal or shatterd, and getting to play on the gsl maps is just a treat, and rewards the longer play i find. keep up the good work sir!
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On July 13 2011 03:58 Akzever wrote:
Need updates!
+1 especially EU updates
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Just a thought - to get more attention/activity, you could organize a SC2 tournament on NTBL maps .
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once LA + NA are linked ill start to play NTBL ^^
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A NTBL tourny would be amazing! I would donate for a prize pool forsure
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so.. How soon will this be up on EU? I think people here would use it more tbh. Keep the work going, awesome job!
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I dunno how successful this is going to be. I don't think angrybacon has the right mindset for a project like this (planning for this to be his full time job, when its still in the early stages, isn't the best for the project)
The issue with any non blizzard ladder isn't execution, but integration. Its hard to get a model that works for everyone, and get the GOOD players playing the maps. Also, approval from blizzard.
I don't know if any development is currently going on. I know the client was just about done, and know that they are waiting for some sort of approval from blizzard.
I do hope that there will be a custom ladder at some point, and look forward to it when it comes.
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Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net
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On July 18 2011 13:39 blade55555 wrote:
Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net
then why no update? I mean the OP completely abandoned this thread, I'm waiting here in EU for a lot of time now, just to hear news, not necessarily release on EU just say something.
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According to AngryBacon via sc2chat, they are aiming for a major release sometime this week.
Lose not faith!
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Hope so, this is something I'm really looking forward to
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On July 18 2011 13:48 ObserverSix2One wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:39 blade55555 wrote:
Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net then why no update? I mean the OP completely abandoned this thread, I'm waiting here in EU for a lot of time now, just to hear news, not necessarily release on EU just say something.
How has he abandoned this thread? He's busy working on the damn project let him be.
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On July 18 2011 18:55 Asday wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:48 ObserverSix2One wrote:On July 18 2011 13:39 blade55555 wrote:
Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net then why no update? I mean the OP completely abandoned this thread, I'm waiting here in EU for a lot of time now, just to hear news, not necessarily release on EU just say something. How has he abandoned this thread? He's busy working on the damn project let him be.
and how was I supposed to know that? answer: I wasn't, because no one actually updates the thread to let me know, that's exactly my point...
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to attack nor criticize, I'm not saying that he is not doing enough work and he should do more, I'm saying that I have no idea what-so-ever if he is doing (or not) something, and because I don't have any access to the server I can't see whether he is online or not, so as far as I know the OP was inactive for over a week and there is no progress being made, which saddens me.
All I asked is to know whether there is a progress being made or not... isn't that kind of the whole point of this thread?
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Played some sick games on NTBL today ^.^ . Being able to play on the GSL maps is soo much funner than the blizzard maps =D. NTBL fighting!!!
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It's actually kind of ironic how I now use the Blizzard ladder to practice for the NTBL.
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I understand you have heard it already many times, but it can't be emphasized enough: this has to be published on EU gate as soon as possible, just has to. Sounds really reasonable and I am already being pumped about it.
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I'm getting the error "could not find the main class: NTBLCient.NTBLMain. Program will exit."
Anyone know what is going on?
edit: FIXED! forgot to extract the files /me is dumb.
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People have said this before many-a-time, but adding the MotM maps should really be considered, possibly some iCCup maps that haven't made a debut. Playing on GSL maps is nice...but if feels like at this point even those maps are getting old because I've watch sooooo many games on them and every tourney just rides on the GSL bandwagon. I think some originality would definitely go far.
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On July 20 2011 11:20 Soluhwin wrote:
People have said this before many-a-time, but adding the MotM maps should really be considered, possibly some iCCup maps that haven't made a debut. Playing on GSL maps is nice...but if feels like at this point even those maps are getting old because I've watch sooooo many games on them and every tourney just rides on the GSL bandwagon. I think some originality would definitely go far.
Ya'll keep suggesting things I'm working on.
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Sorry, Bacon, but you've been pretty silent lately, so we're in the dark as to what you are working on.
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On July 21 2011 01:17 Silent_J wrote:
Sorry, Bacon, but you've been pretty silent lately, so we're in the dark as to what you are working on.
Trying to make things compile >.>
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If anyone is really good at using pyinstaller to compile python apps, please shoot me a PM.
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sounds like you've been working hard, any small previews to come?
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On July 22 2011 05:34 `Winter wrote:
sounds like you've been working hard, any small previews to come?
Maybe if I can get this to compile so people don't need to setup python to run the new client
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The client doesn't seem to be working for me. Is it just me being dumb or are other people experiencing the same issues
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On July 24 2011 01:15 FezTheCaliph wrote:
The client doesn't seem to be working for me. Is it just me being dumb or are other people experiencing the same issues
I don't know what is going wrong because "not working" is rather ambiguous so I'll just throw things out there:
The folder comes zipped, extract it
It only uploads replays that where added to the designated folder when the client is running, so, if you try to run it to post replays you've already played, it won't work.
If you don't have your replays on auto save the folder needs to be unsaved THEN multiplayer, not just multiplayer/not just unsaved.
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Oh wow if this catches on it could be amazing! I wouldn't hesitate for a second to leave behind the shitty blizzard map pool!
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On July 18 2011 21:01 ObserverSix2One wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:55 Asday wrote:On July 18 2011 13:48 ObserverSix2One wrote:On July 18 2011 13:39 blade55555 wrote:
Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net then why no update? I mean the OP completely abandoned this thread, I'm waiting here in EU for a lot of time now, just to hear news, not necessarily release on EU just say something. How has he abandoned this thread? He's busy working on the damn project let him be. and how was I supposed to know that? answer: I wasn't, because no one actually updates the thread to let me know, that's exactly my point... Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to attack nor criticize, I'm not saying that he is not doing enough work and he should do more, I'm saying that I have no idea what-so-ever if he is doing (or not) something, and because I don't have any access to the server I can't see whether he is online or not, so as far as I know the OP was inactive for over a week and there is no progress being made, which saddens me. All I asked is to know whether there is a progress being made or not... isn't that kind of the whole point of this thread?
Because it's really obvious? Pardon me for assuming common sense was common.
Seriously, though, I've read the thread and I know. No-one else is asking either. Which post did you miss that we didn't?
On July 22 2011 05:57 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:34 `Winter wrote:
sounds like you've been working hard, any small previews to come? Maybe if I can get this to compile so people don't need to setup python to run the new client
Python isn't hard to set up. It may be easier for you to pack python and your .py scripts into an NSiS installer, and let it run its course.
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nice work angrybacon!
any plans to publish this is EU?
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On July 24 2011 23:29 Asday wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 21:01 ObserverSix2One wrote:On July 18 2011 18:55 Asday wrote:On July 18 2011 13:48 ObserverSix2One wrote:On July 18 2011 13:39 blade55555 wrote:
Well I don't see blizzard removing it, They still play on their servers, its just a "ums" so to speak kind of like TSL3 cloaked just the stats go on their website instead of on battle.net then why no update? I mean the OP completely abandoned this thread, I'm waiting here in EU for a lot of time now, just to hear news, not necessarily release on EU just say something. How has he abandoned this thread? He's busy working on the damn project let him be. and how was I supposed to know that? answer: I wasn't, because no one actually updates the thread to let me know, that's exactly my point... Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to attack nor criticize, I'm not saying that he is not doing enough work and he should do more, I'm saying that I have no idea what-so-ever if he is doing (or not) something, and because I don't have any access to the server I can't see whether he is online or not, so as far as I know the OP was inactive for over a week and there is no progress being made, which saddens me. All I asked is to know whether there is a progress being made or not... isn't that kind of the whole point of this thread? Because it's really obvious? Pardon me for assuming common sense was common. Seriously, though, I've read the thread and I know. No-one else is asking either. Which post did you miss that we didn't?
LOL, OMG are you seriously going to bash me for asking what's up? don't you have anything better to do?
I've seen people abandoning projects all the time, hell, I've abandoned tons of projects, you are naive if you think this doesn't happen from whatever reason.
anyway leave me alone troll, I asked what's up and got an answer, not from you by the way. =/
I've said what I wanted to say and I'm not gonna waste any more of my time justifying myself to a random guy on the internet, if you still have a problem with me just for asking what is going on, then it's your problem, I'm not going to discuss this anymore. geez lighten up, angrybeacon himself didn't get offended so what the hell did you?
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On July 25 2011 00:06 jonhy- wrote:
nice work angrybacon!
any plans to publish this is EU?
Come on mate, if you had read the FAQ's or the rest of the thread you would know that they plan to release it. Don't post if you haven't read the thread.
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Too bad it's only NA servers.
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wow cool thing, waiting for eu release
@ angrybacon, i think its not a big deal to install python
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Please, can someone make a youtube video for explain how this work ?
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i will make once it will be released on europe
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Angrybacon wheres the bacon?
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On July 26 2011 00:39 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
Please, can someone make a youtube video for explain how this work ?
Can't you just read the OP? It's really not that hard.
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This is the best time for NTBL to breakout since billiard made weird choices with its map pool.
I hope this takes off well and spread to other servers :D GL angrybacon :D
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Whoever can support these Project.
SUPPORT IT PLS.
eSports Mappool ftw!
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I really hope alternative ladders become more important, and I applaud the effort here, but I think the map pool is pretty boring and stale at this point. Why not bring in newer community maps? There are sooo many good ones out now.
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On July 27 2011 21:23 Quotidian wrote:
I really hope alternative ladders become more important, and I applaud the effort here, but I think the map pool is pretty boring and stale at this point. Why not bring in newer community maps? There are sooo many good ones out now.
Well this is the best few competitive maps now. It's much better than the normal ladder maps. But NTBL needs a breakout such as a tourney or a huge update in order to get attention to themselves and attract more players
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Just take all the Cup/Tournament Maps, which Blizzard do not want to put in their ladder..
And i just wanted to say
I love the Internet Community!
I love all these selfmade Projects!
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Holy shit the ladder map pool fucking sucks now
I was going to ladder until I got to diamond and then do this exclusively but Plat is high enough. Plus I'll actually get better playing on the NTBL. I look forward to seeing you gents on the ladder.
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I'll be joining once I set everything up tomorrow!
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Having a hard time finding games. It's a little complex for how far it has gone thus far, but an external matchmaking system would make things easier. Initial skill differences might be difficult
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Angrybacon, wheres the bacon?
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Dude, new ToS from blizz, has a part regarding to external matchmaking services... Hope they dont screw this up for you.
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On August 02 2011 11:07 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Dude, new ToS from blizz, has a part regarding to external matchmaking services... Hope they dont screw this up for you.
I was just about to say this, they literally just made a tos update that bans usage of external matchmaking services :O what does this mean for ntbl
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It could mean that we have to find our own matches, like Bacon has been saying this whole time. I'm pretty sure he's mentioned this before.
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looks like blizzard reallyyyyy doesn't want anything remotely similar to iccup 2.0 :\
good luck with the project though. :[
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Well, if this is on EU, enough people play and you change the map pool a bit I will definitely abandon the Bnet ladder^^
Imo the map pool right now would be cool with GSL maps, newer iCCup maps (like Ithaca and the Anniversary maps, those are also played in the iCCup Nationvoice Korean Weekly) and some of the best TPW maps (which recently took 5 out of 5 Map of the Month spots) and Hysteria+Sanctuarium as the "best maps" (claimed so by MotM judges) from Map of the Month so far
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On August 03 2011 19:52 Ragoo wrote:Well, if this is on EU, enough people play and you change the map pool a bit I will definitely abandon the Bnet ladder^^ Imo the map pool right now would be cool with GSL maps, newer iCCup maps (like Ithaca and the Anniversary maps, those are also played in the iCCup Nationvoice Korean Weekly) and some of the best TPW maps (which recently took 5 out of 5 Map of the Month spots) and Hysteria+Sanctuarium as the "best maps" (claimed so by MotM judges) from Map of the Month so far
These are my exact sentiments.
I too look forward to seeing NTBL on EU, and I think it's a real shame that there are no iCCup maps in the pool. The BNet ladder is better than the past season, but almost none of the maps on it compare to the iCCup, TPW, MotM or GSL maps.
I can't wait until the day when this gets over to the other side of the Atlantic.
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What is the average skill of players in this ladder? I'm interested in playing in it, but, being only low platinum, I feel like I would just lose almost each and every game.
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Could you please remove "MLG" from all the map names? It makes it really obnoxious when I'm trying to actually look at the list of MLG maps. Having MLG in your map name is stupid; its not the map used in MLG.
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The point of having MLG in the name is to make sure people know there are no close spawns. How else should he denote that?
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i hope this project didnt die
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Pretty sure this project is dead
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This looked so cool, too.
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It takes more effort than just queuing up in the normal ladder so it didn't really have a chance of becoming very popular. And if people BADLY wanted to play MLG maps they could just click join custom game and get paired up with a diamond or masters player to play with that way.
I like the idea, unfortunately it just couldn't be as easy as using the ladder built into BNet.
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On August 05 2011 02:54 Pokebunny wrote:
Could you please remove "MLG" from all the map names? It makes it really obnoxious when I'm trying to actually look at the list of MLG maps. Having MLG in your map name is stupid; its not the map used in MLG.
It's the MLG version of the map, only with a couple extra functions for NTBL. Deal with it.
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I remember when this was booming, like 50 people in the channel at a time, kinda sucks that it died down after season 3 . We need to tell ALL our friends about this and somehow bring this back guys! We can't let this die down!
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On August 11 2011 02:52 Nightmare1795 wrote:
It takes more effort than just queuing up in the normal ladder so it didn't really have a chance of becoming very popular. And if people BADLY wanted to play MLG maps they could just click join custom game and get paired up with a diamond or masters player to play with that way.
I like the idea, unfortunately it just couldn't be as easy as using the ladder built into BNet.
That doesn't work at all... and as far as I remember, you match up with somebody and then immediately the game starts, even if you match up with some silver n00b~
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It just seems like the main dev, Angrybacon, didnt really know what he was doing as far as the programming.
For future developers, let it be known this project died because the dev lost interest, not because the public did.
The alpha release in this OP, and on the website, is NOTHING like what was planned, or what could become of a project like this.
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not true
blizz changed tos
can't use third party matchmaking
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Even though Blizzard said no third party matchmaking, that just means that a third party program can't set up a game for you. But a third party program with chat channels and a "find player" function based on your record on ntbl would be fine if it just gave you the id of the player you're looking for, and let you make the match.
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It wouldn't even need a match-making system...
And as GhettoSheep mentioned, custom channels [for like different skill rankings] would be cool. If anything, just commitment to the project rather than more developments, would have been enough. Imo, things like a tournament hosted via NTBL maps, or even just updates/additions of maps would have been nice.
Its downfall seemed to largely be a compounding issue of less people using it leading to less people to play so that less would want to use it with fewer available opponents. Small efforts like tournaments to promote it would keep it alive.
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How would OP feel about releasing the source code?
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Hahaha, welcome to eFame, your map is being played right now on the SC2 Blue stream. :D
On August 05 2011 02:54 Pokebunny wrote:
Could you please remove "MLG" from all the map names? It makes it really obnoxious when I'm trying to actually look at the list of MLG maps. Having MLG in your map name is stupid; its not the map used in MLG.
HAHA NOW IT ACTUALLY IS BEING USED FOR MLG.
Hee hee hee, I amuse myself so well.
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I just saw some text from "not the blizzard ladder " on the blue stream from mlg. It was the game with the 7pool. Does MLG use this?
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On August 27 2011 07:29 NcK wrote:
I just saw some text from "not the blizzard ladder " on the blue stream from mlg. It was the game with the 7pool. Does MLG use this?
Obviously an accident.
EDIT: Though now DongRaeGu is ranked. :D
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't creating a 3rd party ladder system(which is what this basically is) against the EULA/TOS?
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On August 27 2011 07:54 Asday wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 07:29 NcK wrote:
I just saw some text from "not the blizzard ladder " on the blue stream from mlg. It was the game with the 7pool. Does MLG use this? Obviously an accident. EDIT: Though now DongRaeGu is ranked. :D
He would be ranked if the replay would be uploaded onto the system. otherwise it just stores stuff locally.
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On August 12 2011 07:52 Fiendish wrote:
not true
blizz changed tos
can't use third party matchmaking
This is what killed the project, I worked on it.
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can they enforce that rule? I mean..
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I know this is an old thread, but with the sudden popularity of Starbow mod I think a mod like this could be useful to provide ranked matchmaking for Starbow players! Is OP still following StarCraft at all? Is anyone interested in adapting this system to starbow? I would love to contribute my efforts (I know Java and can develop web sites) but don't quite have the time to lead such an undertaking.
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EPT
