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On February 16 2011 06:59 kingkira wrote:uhm this is for namelesszero heres a wicked kizarld game from a couple patches back http://www.mediafire.com/?t6zkc63iggn9hy6i have a pretty good DK replay too if you want it zero i think kizarld is a really good support character but everyone in pub thinks he sucks lmao its kinda funny. I studied him and learned how to use his skills at the right timings so he's actually really good i can post a tutorial if you guys want
Thank you very much for your replay. It's nice to see people doing well with heroes that aren't understood very well. Some more things I'd like to see more of in future games with Krizard are:
Timing your freeze attack with your green box to have the box explode at the very moment the opponent comes out of his freeze.
Defeating two opponents at once by utilizing the freeze attack to negate one.
Solo general killing.
Again, thanks very much for uploading these replays guys. You're helping many players out, not just helping me to study.
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Okay the one thing I disagree with is that the ice box technique is more or less made for defensive purposes not offensive so utlizing icebox when they comeout would help reduce incoming damage
Example when freezing most ranged characters will attack as soon as the freeze technique dispels so extra defense would help against it
And plus icebox does not do much damage lmao
Just the way I thought about that skill do you agree?
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On February 16 2011 11:15 kingkira wrote:
Okay the one thing I disagree with is that the ice box technique is more or less made for defensive purposes not offensive so utlizing icebox when they comeout would help reduce incoming damage
Example when freezing most ranged characters will attack as soon as the freeze technique dispels so extra defense would help against it
And plus icebox does not do much damage lmao
Just the way I thought about that skill do you agree?
Why is that funny? Anyway, you should probably take a look at your skills and do some research before you make another post.
Ice Block does as much damage as an individual spear from Ice Spear, more damage than your ultimate, and nearly as much as Ice Breaker. On a hero that heavily lacks in the damage department, stringing any skills together that you can do to more damage is kind of necessary.
It has defensive capabilities but it sits stationary on the ground and any high skill player is going to tell you that there's no better defense than simply avoiding a hit altogether. You're not gonna do that while sitting still inside of a box and Krizard most certainly doesn't need to sit still being as fragile as he is.
Krizard is a support character based heavily on timing in order to keep from getting crushed and I feel that the fact of the matter remains that his Ice Block does damage for a reason. If you're playing Krizard properly, the first reaction that a ranged hero is going to have is not to attack you as soon as the freeze dispels, it's going to be to run before they get double-teamed or to go heal up. Not to mention you spoke as if the freeze didn't last long enough for you to run up and Ice Block and still have time to retreat.
I'm assuming you posted this to troll?
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Assa you told me to upload some good games so here I am =P.
High level North American inhouse game with a bit of back and forth. Players who excelled in this game are Justin and Hype. I'm happy that I've finally found some good players to play with check it out. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-189553.jpg)
EDIT: SORRY ONLY 4 PLAYERS SUPPORTED o.o
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Modes seem like they are fairly easy to counter in high level play. You have to consider if you would rather balance be at the low level or at high level.
My only problem with the modes is that they require no skill. For several ranged like igniz or zava, you have to anticipate your opponent's movement and try to hit them. With modes, it's 1 button and you right click. I don't even pick modes on heroes any more (except for berr/megagun) because they are so damn cheesy.
Modes shouldn't apply debuffs either. It's bad enough that melee have movement speed and charge, but a slow is a little over the top...
By the way, I love igniz now. His skills are extremely fun to use and it makes it a lot more challenging to try to kill people (in contrast to drago, soul hunter, sylon, etc).
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On February 16 2011 18:02 Deken wrote:
Modes seem like they are fairly easy to counter in high level play. You have to consider if you would rather balance be at the low level or at high level.
My only problem with the modes is that they require no skill. For several ranged like igniz or zava, you have to anticipate your opponent's movement and try to hit them. With modes, it's 1 button and you right click. I don't even pick modes on heroes any more (except for berr/megagun) because they are so damn cheesy.
Modes shouldn't apply debuffs either. It's bad enough that melee have movement speed and charge, but a slow is a little over the top...
By the way, I love igniz now. His skills are extremely fun to use and it makes it a lot more challenging to try to kill people (in contrast to drago, soul hunter, sylon, etc).
Agreed. Like I said man, modes just need a drawback to them.. Probably increased damage taken. Really, only Genesic seems to murder at high level. Get a great player using Genesic and you'll probably never beat them without teamwork or a serious level advantage.
Igniz is great but like you said, he's probably not as good as a great Drago. Drago when played properly is very strong.
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any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther.
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On February 17 2011 09:17 0mar wrote:
any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther.
Yeah I kinda wish they were still in the map. Was a great place to gain a major advantage.
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On February 17 2011 10:30 NamelessZero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 09:17 0mar wrote:
any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther. Yeah I kinda wish they were still in the map. Was a great place to gain a major advantage.
I can see why they were taken out. I haven't killed security soldiers in weeks. I usually just zoom between lanes and kill exp boxes and enemy troops. In the korean replays I saw, they were killing most of the defense before lvl 15, which rarely happens in NA servers. I suspect they were taken out because security soldiers are rarely killed in high level play.
There are a few changes that I think might add some neat features:
It would be cool if the troops had abilities to protect and/or harm heroes. Stick in a few marauders so you can use your troops to help you escape and/or punish overzealous heroes. This will make the enemy spawn more than just walking exp boxes.
I'd also like to see some bonuses applied (inc health or dmg, etc) if you are fighting on your side of the map near your defenses. It is very difficult to kill heroes like drago, dwarven king, and hades who have a crap ton of static defense wailing on your defense and you.
Penalties should be applied for suicide deaths (death by the other team's npcs). I've killed many heroes early game by running after them into their defense and I don't care because I get exp and gas and they get nothing.
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Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
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On February 16 2011 16:33 justjuice wrote:
Assa you told me to upload some good games so here I am =P.
High level North American inhouse game with a bit of back and forth. Players who excelled in this game are Justin and Hype. I'm happy that I've finally found some good players to play with check it out.
An excellent game. Probably one of the highest level North American replays you're gonna find on this thread to date. If you're looking to learn more about how to properly play blink heroes, or what a high level Zava looks like, this is definitely the replay to watch.
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On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote:
Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
Igniz
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On February 18 2011 12:07 pride2518 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote:
Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide. Igniz
I believe I've stated that multiple times in this thread already, refer to post of my thoughts on Igniz the day he was released. Regardless, you shouldn't be forced to pick one specific hero or to buy and use a potion just to stop a summon. Dwarven King really isn't that bad if you're good and you push him back early on but Hades can really be a pain... atleast DK's tanks can't shoot through fog for a retarded range.
To be honest though, if I had to choose between any current nerfs, it would probably be Modes and more specific, Genesic's rampage mode. Let Hades have his pylon that's practically unkillable until level 5 or higher and let DK have his tank spam, just nerf Genesic's ridiculous damage, range, and survivability while in a mode.
It's pretty much impossible to lose a game as Genesic with Rampage unless you're a complete scrub.
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Genesic ulti is indeed strong, but the hero is very weak in the beginning. You can easily out level him with most heros. Also you have to know that you cannot beat him 1v1 unless you are zeros or lurcellant. So try to gank him a lot so he will have lower level than everyone else.
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we need more ppl in cityoftempest channel
Can you put the chat channel name in the loading screen pls?
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cityoftempest channel will be up on loading screen soon.
I've talked about modes especially rampage mode with MaxStorm but he still doesn't
think it's op. Any character can be op in pub games but when you balance the game,
it has to be balanced towards high level. He thinks modes have many weaknesses
and in korea there are talks about them being useless compared to other ulti.
The most important part of the game i think is the beginning. Don't let genesic or
any hero ur facing level up easy. Think about ways to disturb them with your hero.
Genesic becomes strong if you let him lvl up easy and he becomes around 6 lvl +.
So keep ganking him, make him go to heal. Use potions wisely. If genesic chooses
rampage mode, and you fight with him with potion, he only has 2 skills to use +
normal attacks, where as you (depending on hero) would have more skills to use
with ulti. Ulti is the big difference. If you kill him early, he most likely becomes useless.
Heroes like horus is strong on 1on 1, but this game is team game. He is so useless
when it comes to 2 on 1. and he can barely destroy buildings even with potioin.
You have to think about team balance too.
We'll have to see how tournament goes and talk about balance. I'll try and arrange one
soon. If we want modes to be balanced and other balance issue, i'll have to show
Maxstorm some replays.
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On February 18 2011 19:22 assajocuna wrote:
I've talked about modes especially rampage mode with MaxStorm but he still doesn't
think it's op. Any character can be op in pub games but when you balance the game,
it has to be balanced towards high level. He thinks modes have many weaknesses
and in korea there are talks about them being useless compared to other ulti.
I thought you said that in the recent tournament, a mode player dominated throughout.
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On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote:
Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
dark tower is negated once u start upgrading armor. upgraded armor makes the tower virtually useless. but ya thats the only decent way to deal with it. his tower is way stronger then it needs to be. most of the time the tower is the main way hades gets his kills.
i agree that the tower itself needs some kind of nerf.
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I don't understand why people think Hades tower is overpowered. It can easily be destroyed by most spells even in early game.
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On February 18 2011 23:59 vulture7 wrote:
I don't understand why people think Hades tower is overpowered. It can easily be destroyed by most spells even in early game.
^^^^
this to. most power house classes can one hit the tower with some spells. ron in particular gets rid of the tower with ease. i think tho what most ppl are saying is that you shouldnt have to get specific upgrades and a specific character just to counter ONE spell.
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EPT
