Chat Channel: cityoftempest (on both NA and EU server)
ENG. VERSION: NA server - Published EU server - Published
City of Tempest is translated into english and is now up on NA server.
Please write us your impression and post any bugs, weird translations you've found.
Short Guide:
1. Select your hero from bottom right corner selection box. 2. Tell your allies which lane you are going (there are 3) by alt+clicking on the mini map. 3. While going to your lane, use your 1st mineral stat point. - go to stat select (hotkey is 'tab' or bottom right corner arrow) and choose mana this way you can use your basic skill 'stimpack' or anything of that kind. 4. Depending on the character, you can destroy 1 experience box on your lane and start attacking soldier creeps or you can go straight killing creeps. 5. Normally you would want high mana to use skills and have faster regeneration. Recommended stat point spent on mana is 5. 6. After mana, you can spend your stat point gained from lvl up (2 mineral stat points) on learning ultimate skills etc, or investing on power ups. (hotkey 'q'). Some heros with high health would want to invest on health stats for efficiency. 7. Buy mana regeneration items on the shop for faster hunting. 8. Keep potions when you have enough money for battling against other hero. (let's you spam almost any skills for few sec)
Zoom in/out: -Normally it's at the fullest zoom out mode in the beginning. But if you made a mistake zooming in, You can control zoom by 1. enter chat mode (press 'enter') 2. type in "- number(10~50, 50 being the fullest zoom out)" ex: - 50 (need a space inbetween - and #)
*** Do not change any hotkey config in your sc2 setting, or else it could screw C.T hotkeys in game
[Frequent players list] (add friend and invite if you don't want to wait)
IRC: -I'll be on irc.quakenet.org channel #cityoftempest Can ask questions, tell me bugs, anything you want to say. Also you can invite people if there are others around in the chatting room.
Hope this helps. Enjoy~
PS. Replay from last year christmas tournament in korea. Very high level, it was semi-finals. Keep in mind that the map looks different because it was during a christmas event. But it's basically the same thing. Defense system changed from then, also some skills got nuffed. 90% of this replay is basically the same as the english version.
It will take a while to find a game since the popularity system has it about 10 pages down, but if you go to: join game> custom> custom> and scroll down a few pages, you will findd 'C.T -City of Tempest'. There is a game up, waiting on 4 more people. Feel free to join
Just played a game. Super fun, and as the game progresses, you can just spam skills willy nilly :O There are a few grammar mistakes in the game and if I zoom in, I can't zoom out all the way.
Wow thanks, that's like a pro's tips guide haha xD
Look forward to playing this, I hope the game reaches higher popularity, or at least we can wait til 1.2 for chat channels and possibly an improved custom game system...
you should advertise "frequent players" to help get player slots filled
a link in the op ("find players here") to another thread featuring tl posters players that love the map and type their ingame data, in order for the absence of chat channels to not be as bothersome
Wow didn't expect this many response from EU scene. I'll talk about this with the maker and see what we can do.
For the zoom in/out, you can control it by typing "- 50" in the chat. 1. press 'enter' (to type in chat) 2. type in "- number(10~50)" ex: -50 for the fullest zoom out.
I didn't fully understand the frequent players advertise. What should i do to advertise more? In korea when the game just started during the open beta, we made chat rooms in something like irc, and added lots of friend list to invite and play until the rank went up to 2nd page or so.
If you want to upload maps on server, you need battle.net account of that server and the galaxy editor.
I guess i can start making a list on the front page for the friend list so people don't have to wait too long. If you post your name/code of your battle.net id, i'll make a list on the front for adding friends and invite game.
On January 02 2011 05:01 assajocuna wrote: Wow didn't expect this many response from EU scene. I'll talk about this with the maker and see what we can do.
We are totally fine with English language. I can upload it if you don't find anyone to do so :-)
On January 02 2011 05:03 assajocuna wrote: ...I guess i can start making a list on the front page for the friend list so people don't have to wait too long. If you post your name/code of your battle.net id, i'll make a list on the front for adding friends and invite game.
"If you want to upload maps on server, you need battle.net account of that server and the galaxy editor". I'd add: and permission... thanks again for "hosting", you're doing good all around, KR seems less alien. Although I'd personally rather see their melee quirkiness showcased on tl, this thread is a strong step taken towards the whole community not missing out on KR... well ... on tl.
I played one game of it and love the look of it. The only problem was that I had my screen stuck zoomed in for the last half of it. I'll remember the command for next time I play.
cool map, but the spawned units have pretty messy priorities and can be manipulated pretty drastically and with ease. not sure I'm really a fan of that. Last-hitting is one of the most important skills to AOS games that separate good players from great ones, and the last hitting mechanics in this map seem really flawed (spawned units will be left with enough HP left for you to kill them by attacking once, while they attack the "big unit" spawn of hte other team).
It's intented and there are a lot of strategies involved with it. There are characters that have larger radius hit boxes that can normal shot creeps really fast. The opposite side hero can move around the creeps so they get seperated and dont die fast.
Also you can use this seperation for making large creeps survive longer from hero aoe skills.
They will not kill off other creeps but just move on to the next target. Only the defend tower will kill the creeps when they have reached the end of the lane. So the tactic is to push your lane to the other side as fast as you can so the other hero won't have chance to level up.
Some weak heros in the beginning will try to fill their mana up (normally 200 mana skills are aoe) to one shot creeps, and while recharging they normally hit exp boxes, trucks for additional exp.
It's just a new concept different from dota and when you get used to it you'll find many different tactics you can use with this system.
What seperates good and bad players in the beginning stage is how fast you move around your creeps so they aren't stacked and won't get killed fast with 1 shot aoe skill. Using watch towers see if they are hitting exp boxes or truck, where you can last hit steal the exp. Use your aoe skill when the enemy comes near his creep, you can damage both the creep and enemy etc...
I just opened up an irc chat room. #cityoftempest Come by ask questions, chit chat, bug report, invite people to play the game etc. Right now i'm alone lol. If i do not reply, i'm probably playing the game or afk.
Tried to get a game going, took 30min to get 4 people in the lobby before I decided to quit. Definitely want to play, I'll keep trying every once and awhile but I'll wait till it climbs the ladder some I guess.
Please upload this map on EU. omg. the 2nd map that i want to play but isn't on EU. srsly. there should be a list of EU players who could NA players send their maps to upload it on EU.
Just played a game, lasted 1 hour 16 mins. Damn everyone was soo good in that game, probly all TLers. This game is nothing like dota. The only words to describe it is 'skillshot arena'.
Game is pretty fun, this hero is op though, I played some dude with zeratuls model I think and he had some crazy long range skill that costed a lot of energy but wasn't too much concern later on as I racked up so many kills I got massive mana regen/pool and maxed out EVERYTHING while the other team was level 16. It was like a full screen+ away and did around 1400 with +8 damage and 3.5k with max damage upgrade.
It's been out for a while now in korea and there's been a lot of balance test and patchs. Right now the balance is pretty good but there are some heroes considered as strong heroes (none are op). All the melee heroes with charge skill are strong, berr.nine is easy to use and effective, mighty monk has invincible mode so it's hard to kill him (but he doesn't lvl up as fast as others) and dwarven king + drago can set up long lasting towers that has fairly good damage and high hit points. But if you control well, you can do good with any hero right now. The worst i can think of right now is maybe Chimera. Even that character is good if you can get past the slow start.
Played a few games with the Zealot and was pretty fun, one game I was totally stomping people and getting 5+ levels ahead of them, the other game when I played people who were experienced, I was getting slaughtered with a 1-5 ratio. One tip I learned from the experience is ADD SPEED. I simply couldn't run away from dangerous positions such as spotting two people from the watch tower or chase after a guy after trying to ambush him. One thing I noticed was a lot of people using the reaper due to the speed of the unit as well as being able to jump over the walls and for a quick escape making it incredibly hard to catch them.
Yep, you don't need to alter it at all for EU. You can upload it anywhere and PM me the link if you like, I can publish it on EU. I'm sure many other people would love to, as well. You can use the exact same file as with NA.
I've been playing Black Wyvren, and completely stomping pub games. I'm a mobile nuker, so if anyone plays a hero with a slow/trap, we could make an awesome duo. Is there such thing as a tank or do all heroes die pretty quickly?
it's on the 5th page of popular maps atm, got a few people joining just by sitting in the lobby and played some more today, lotta fun, fast paced action but I've gotta agree with MeLo, it tends to take too long after it's been established who's won, pushing towers etc. Tip for that, there's a second page in the shop, 1500 gas for a rocket silo that chips away at the opposing base.
On January 03 2011 04:51 Shikyo wrote: Yep, you don't need to alter it at all for EU. You can upload it anywhere and PM me the link if you like, I can publish it on EU. I'm sure many other people would love to, as well. You can use the exact same file as with NA.
quoting for the truth!
the only kind of good UMS is raynor party atm but theres almost never any good competition and most of the games are luckbased and buggy
Had another game today - was quite fun despite two thirds of my team leaving.
I have to say Hades is my favourite hero so far. Awesome damage, cool spells and can increase his speed to over 10 for a few seconds for quick getaways or sniping heroes.
I've been trying out new heroes, and I must say that charge heroes are absolutely godly pub stompers, but really show their weak side when playing vs organized teams since you can't dodge enemy fire while attacking. When playing reaper or wyvren, you really have to utilize their mobility for ganks, because you won't beat any other hero 1v1. I really want to find an organized team to play medic, he's absolutely useless when u trap enemies and ur pub teammates don't even attack.
"Does making a game and quitX100 make the map climb the rank up? It's hard to get people in with this ranking system for new maps."
"Anyone with spare time willing to help this map go up the rank list, please make a room by yourself, run, after the game started quit, repeat this procedure."
please consider this a less than good idea, since you encourage other mapmaking eager people to do it by advertising or doing it. whatever the method required (facing blizz's showcasing mechanics) that's not it
a map just needs a little time and mostly a growing constant pack of players (ready to invite and help newcomers have fun on it (at least one in each team, which i doubt is the case if teams are randomly formed)) just continue advertising for it on all sc2 forums, continue trying to make it better for the players (and presumably yourself)... all any good map needs is good hosting.
the 100x method not only makes it recognized by blizz (who indeed is not looking yet), but furthermore it's just plain wrong (a waste of your time, a "stolen" feeling, also remember that the more people do it the more bad maps will be bumped also)
the system is what it is for now, please don't add injury to insult, be patient, if the map is as good as you say it is, the crowd will come, until then good luck and keep adding posted player names on op
yeah true my bad. I currently don't have the na client so can't check the popularity but i heard it's going up well.
And about EU publish. I dunno if it sounds weird but he(maxstorm) just got the map up on na and wants to wait alittle bit and see the results. He is getting feedback and fixing bugs, adding new stuff. I guess when he thinks it's good enough, he'll publish in other servers too.
tell him the only vital thing missing: a lobby to "groom" new players because of lack of chat channels... choices/split of heroes and base strategy in a team spirit will make new players bloom in great players in no time...
on the daffyduckside of things, if you want to win him over instantly: tell him that the window for new mods before a huge number arrive on the scene is closing... he should have published it and someone should have been selected to host it already (because people are asking for it now, doesn't mean that'll last)
Is the creator the only one that have the files needed to upload it to the European server? I cant see any reason to not do so and it is very frustrating to always have to wait longer than other regions for games.
I guess I'm kinda good - almost everyone I play against thinks whichever hero I use is OP ... but I haven't really played anyone really good yet. Plus it'd just be nice to have a guaranteed team of three, without a guy leaving in the first two seconds -_-
Just had a game, and holy shit is the medic hero epic. That forcefield spell to trap enemies is brutal. I really love the heroes in this game - when used right they all seem OP as fuck.
On January 04 2011 09:25 Moonloop wrote: Moonloop #673 - add me if you want a team member.
I guess I'm kinda good - almost everyone I play against thinks whichever hero I use is OP ... but I haven't really played anyone really good yet. Plus it'd just be nice to have a guaranteed team of three, without a guy leaving in the first two seconds -_-
Just had a game, and holy shit is the medic hero epic. That forcefield spell to trap enemies is brutal. I really love the heroes in this game - when used right they all seem OP as fuck.
Medic was the first one I tried, I had so much trouble using FF (and the arrow thing) because everyone moves so damn fast. Also I didn't understand what kind of hero she's supposed to be other than a force-fielder. But it's so powerful on the in-between lane high ground.
Also it's odd how the creeps gift you last hits, like or dislike?
The automatic last hit makes this game a lot more high level. You don't have to worry about your lane, and you can go shop or gank at your pleasure. What this introduces is lane pushing. Once you push your lane to the enemy towers, their towers will kill your creeps, not granting any exp or gas, but you get ganked quite easily. So basically, you try to kill each other from the very start unlike other dota games where you farm and build ur character for the first 5-10 mins and then engage in combat.
On January 04 2011 12:40 Chairman Ray wrote: The automatic last hit makes this game a lot more high level. You don't have to worry about your lane, and you can go shop or gank at your pleasure. What this introduces is lane pushing. Once you push your lane to the enemy towers, their towers will kill your creeps, not granting any exp or gas, but you get ganked quite easily. So basically, you try to kill each other from the very start unlike other dota games where you farm and build ur character for the first 5-10 mins and then engage in combat.
lol what a horribly attempted summarization of the skill involved in dota. the automatic last hit does NOT introduce more skill, no matter what strange way you try to twist it. it introduces a different concept, sure, but one that has a much lower skill ceiling.
there is no technical skill involved in making decisions... that's part of the reason anyone can beat anyone in sc2 right now.
On January 04 2011 12:40 Chairman Ray wrote: The automatic last hit makes this game a lot more high level. You don't have to worry about your lane, and you can go shop or gank at your pleasure. What this introduces is lane pushing. Once you push your lane to the enemy towers, their towers will kill your creeps, not granting any exp or gas, but you get ganked quite easily. So basically, you try to kill each other from the very start unlike other dota games where you farm and build ur character for the first 5-10 mins and then engage in combat.
lol what a horribly attempted summarization of the skill involved in dota. the automatic last hit does NOT introduce more skill, no matter what strange way you try to twist it. it introduces a different concept, sure, but one that has a much lower skill ceiling.
there is no technical skill involved in making decisions... that's part of the reason anyone can beat anyone in sc2 right now.
The last hitting concept is something that I never really liked when playing dota. I wouldn't say it adds skill to the game, but rather shifts it. The first 5 minutes of the game is basically just last hitting and denying creeps. Sure it does take a good skill curve, but if beat my opponent and outgear him, i enter the mid game with an advantage. In the mid game where all the engagement happens, if I have an advantage over my opponent, it lowers the level of the mid game. There's seldomly a game of dota where both teams enter the midgame with exactly the same levels and gear value. What CoT does is basically throw out the early game and just stick you in the mid game. This way it focuses purely on engagements. It doesn't necessarily mean it takes more skill or less skill - it simply focuses all the skill on one stage of the game rather than dividing it into different stages of the game. From what I have experiences so far, CoT is more micro intensive, but less decision making and strategy than dota. I guess this is why CoT is so competitive in Korea right now.
On January 04 2011 12:40 Chairman Ray wrote: The automatic last hit makes this game a lot more high level. You don't have to worry about your lane, and you can go shop or gank at your pleasure. What this introduces is lane pushing. Once you push your lane to the enemy towers, their towers will kill your creeps, not granting any exp or gas, but you get ganked quite easily. So basically, you try to kill each other from the very start unlike other dota games where you farm and build ur character for the first 5-10 mins and then engage in combat.
lol what a horribly attempted summarization of the skill involved in dota. the automatic last hit does NOT introduce more skill, no matter what strange way you try to twist it. it introduces a different concept, sure, but one that has a much lower skill ceiling.
there is no technical skill involved in making decisions... that's part of the reason anyone can beat anyone in sc2 right now.
The last hitting concept is something that I never really liked when playing dota. I wouldn't say it adds skill to the game, but rather shifts it. The first 5 minutes of the game is basically just last hitting and denying creeps.
Ok so youre letting your opinion be swayed by the fact that you "never really liked" it. Clearly it adds more skill to the early game portions and is essential to being a successful player.
On January 04 2011 13:52 Chairman Ray wrote:Sure it does take a good skill curve, but if beat my opponent and outgear him, i enter the mid game with an advantage. In the mid game where all the engagement happens, if I have an advantage over my opponent, it lowers the level of the mid game.
What ???? This map (City of Tempest) is another one of those AOS maps where if you fall behind, you have no chance of coming back. dota is not that way. Throughout the midgame you're one or two ganks away from pulling your team back into it. of course you get an advantage from outlaning your opponent. that's why it's important to be good at it. your point makes absolutely no sense
On January 04 2011 13:52 Chairman Ray wrote:There's seldomly a game of dota where both teams enter the midgame with exactly the same levels and gear value. What CoT does is basically throw out the early game and just stick you in the mid game. This way it focuses purely on engagements. It doesn't necessarily mean it takes more skill or less skill - it simply focuses all the skill on one stage of the game rather than dividing it into different stages of the game. From what I have experiences so far, CoT is more micro intensive, but less decision making and strategy than dota. I guess this is why CoT is so competitive in Korea right now.
Whether you enter the "midgame" or not in DOTA with an advantage has nothing to do with the skill level involved, except that the person who got the advantage was obviously the stronger player in the early game, meaning they were... you guessed it: *more skilled*. honestly this map is probably competitive in Korea because there's nothing else out there. and because Blizzard's map hasn't been released yet.
Two games have completely different styles. Dota has been out for a while now but ct only came out for like 3 days now in NA. Give it more time before evaluating so fast. It's not the only map the korean server has but it sure is gaining a lot of popularity. The main people who are playing the game are the hardcore dota users and they stopped playing dota ever since playing this map. Just spend more time and if you don't like the style of the game, you can go back to dota or hon or any other aos maps out there. I think all of em are fun to play. Play what suits your style the most.
About the length of the games. The average time for a match in the recent korean tournament was around 30~40 minutes. The longest one i saw was around 61 minutes.
I think the only reason why it's taking so long right now is beause the game has been out for like 3 days now and people haven't figured everything. I've played some games today and i can see some people are already doing pretty good at killing heroes maybe because they've been playin dota or other aos for a long time. But they all were pretty bad at destroying the buildings.
I tried not to post advanced tactics that were developed in korea over a long time because i just wanted to see if NA users would develope their own unique style that is different from korea. I think those research, making new builds are the big 'fun' part of a new aos. But yeah anyone coming to the irc chat room and if i'm there, i'll try to answer any questions you have.
I just played it, even 2v1 takes crazy long. and of course if you are 1v2 or 2v3, seems like no chance in hell to win. 1 guy leave and the game is ruined.
Anyway I never had that much fun at dota (I was interested in it for a little while), but I'm having a lot with this right now, maybe just cause no one knows how to play, but it's a lot simpler to just pick up and play, you don't have to have to know a shitton of items and heroes and plan exact builds for crafting items and such. The pace is frantic also, even though the games go long.
Although the majority of games have been ruined by laggers and some leavers so far.
Lursellant has the highest damage combination. Just have to know how to do his combination. Duran is also deadly.
For destroying buildings, both Dark Fact and Sylon can do the most damage in short time.
Drago can build spore crawlers that has a lot of hp and hits good damge for destroying buildings, and annoy any hero near the tower. His skills do good damge for hero killing too.
Any character with towers can just spam 'setup tower' near the enemy building for destroying really quickly. These are Phantom(reaper), Fire series, Berrnine, Megagunzord.
Summoning big tower chars which are Dwarf and Drago can also destroy towers. It does take longer to destroy, but their summon life time is pretty long.
But any character above level 10 can destroy towers quickly when they drink mana potion and spam all their spells as fast as you can. you do have to focus on certain skills that are most effect on doing most damage on the buildings.
i've played a few games of this. its kinda fun, but doesn't really have the depth of dota. Its hard to tell if you're aggroed by mobs, and because everything seems to do such insignificant damage its not really worth noticing. The free hits make melee retardedly easy, just let them all get low and run in and aoe once. I dont feel like theres the same level of finesse as there is in a game of HON or dota. Maybe this will change, but as long as you can aoe down a giant pack of 1hp mobs all the time, i dont see it changing. also lack of stun/slows makes ganking pretty 1 dimensional, either you kill them instantly, or they run away and you dont
There are tons of slow, stun skills. Also there are trap skills. If it were that 1 dimensional and didn't have depth of dota, the dota players in korea wouldn't have changed to playing this game.
Ppl tend to think just because it's so different from dota this games involves less skill. There were many in korea that talked about this and got pretty much raped against the good players. There are so many little things you have to know to play well. It's true that it's beginner friendly. But the skill level difference between the great and good players are so much, if they played 10 games, the results would most likely be the same.
There are around 8~9k games per hour, and over 20 different active clans playing this game. And in tournaments, the results are almost always the same. If the game didn't have that much depth, the results should've been different(more random) every time since there are this many people playing hardcore right now.
Any news on the EU release? You don't have to change anything, just find someone reliable with an EU account. He uploads it and ppl from EU will organize themselves to bring the game up. That's really all there is to it and you gain a much bigger fanbase that can help with improvements of the 'foreigner' version of the game + it helps more unique playstyles develop
I think everything will work out on the EU server soon. Can't say it for sure yet.
If you guys see people leaving the game within the first 1min, it's most likely a drop(disconnection) from the room. It happens quite often in korea. It happened to me several times playing in NA server too. Don't know what the problem is? battle.net problem?
I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended, but when I have a party of 3 I can't "join" games, I can only create, which means when I roll with 3 it's by default a ridiculous advantage for me and my friends.
Played a game of this, some good ideas here. Having it 3v3 is pretty cool too, it's much easier to get a game going when you only need 6 people. Playing on SC2 UI is a pain though, I'm too used to watching people's health/mana like in LoL.
Im trying to learn to play at least one hero from each class. I'm on melee at the moment. I've mostly been playing zealot but occasionally trying out one of the others. In pub games, I can't really get a good feel for the melee heroes since all I'm doing is noobstomping with different spells. At higher levels. what is the difference between each melee hero and what does each one excel at?
It'll be like this until more people play this game and learn all the things.
I've been called cheater last game because at lvl 15 i destroyed a turret in about 10 seconds. I was using Sylon, which is one of the best building destroyer in the game. His ultimate skill does a low initial damage, but lasts long in a very large radius dealing good damage on buildings. His other skill v also if you aim at the corner of the building does multiple damage on the buildings doing massive damage.
The bad thing about Sylon is his hero killing abilities are just a little above average. Has one of the lowest health. So he is basically a nuker (most effective on buildings).
LurrCellant - can hook dragin enemy and kill fast in a series of combinations. (good against any magic heros) Genesic Hunter - Has the most HP in the game, can stun like a second with c skill, can stun again with ultimate skill. Can summon golems really fast at the end stage of the game when you put some stats up. Blade hunter - Has a big slow aoe, massive damage ultimate. You cannot run against this hero. Good overall balance. Duran - Has high HP, amazing damage, but you need a lot of mana to perform his combo. Get potion always. Zeros - The best early lvl hero, can kill heroes in seconds even from lvl 2 with just a single potion. Both his ultimates are good. the 2 mineral ultimate does around 3500 damage on full atk up stat. The other ultimate does fairly good damage and lets you blink to the targeted point. Has a slow move.
One big tip is try to destroy buildings with drinking a mana and spell spamming. When you destroy 1 barrack, it gives all your teammates 500 gas so it helps alot in the beginning stage of the game.
Another tip: There are many people who think just investing a lot of stat points in mana makes you strong spamming spells.
This is not true. You can spam spells for a short time during combat by just drinking a cheap 350 mana potion.
In the beginning you would want some mana so you can perform all the skills you have (the highest mana required i think was 450). So once you have that requirement met (average, most people in korea put 5 points in mana.) it's best to up your skill damage. While you put some points in ATK Up stat, if you think you are slow put some speed points.
You can buy mana regen pack or max mana pack at the shop so no need to over put your mana stat. You only have 50 limited stat points (lvl 25 x 2 each lvl). So you would want the most effective build.
I think I've been having the most success with Genesic and Zeros. For zeros, is his slow movement a big problem at any stages of the game? I'm thinking if it goes to lategame, mana won't be an issue anymore, so since zeros can output more dmg, he might be a bit stronger.
PS. Genesic's ult does 300 (+100) dmg, what does that mean?
Oh i meant one of his skill has a slowdown property ('c' skill i believe). HIs damage output isn't the best, just in the beginning it's stronger but as it goes to the later stage, other melee heroes can be better. So you gotta lvl up faster take and use the early advantage.
I'm not sure, i think 300 is the initial damage and 100 is the explosion damage after the initial attack motion. But the damage isn't the best part of that skill. It stop the opponent for a short time, making you more time to attack with other skills.
If you just want damage, Lurrcellant does the most.
this game would be heaps cooler if you could deny. I was trying to work out what i didn't like about this game, so i went and played a game of HON to get some perspective. I think its denying. The early game is just so stagnant. You dont ahve enough damage to kill an opponent, and all last hits are guaranteed, its just a zz fest of killing boxes and occasionally aoeing the creep wave. Why not introduce denying and m,aybe even proper last hitting, making lane control actually important instead of the joke it is now. all the games i've played so far have been pretty silly, with me getting lvl 25 while everyone else is like lvl 10 and running around 2 shotting people, still not sure how this game would play out with 6 competant people, but it still feels a little flat.
On January 05 2011 16:22 Kiante wrote: this game would be heaps cooler if you could deny. I was trying to work out what i didn't like about this game, so i went and played a game of HON to get some perspective. I think its denying. The early game is just so stagnant. You dont ahve enough damage to kill an opponent, and all last hits are guaranteed, its just a zz fest of killing boxes and occasionally aoeing the creep wave. Why not introduce denying and m,aybe even proper last hitting, making lane control actually important instead of the joke it is now. all the games i've played so far have been pretty silly, with me getting lvl 25 while everyone else is like lvl 10 and running around 2 shotting people, still not sure how this game would play out with 6 competant people, but it still feels a little flat.
Oh, there is denying. You deny by pushing your creeps to the enemy towers. They don't get anything for tower kills. Depending what hero you are, you can kill opponents as early as lvl 2 or 3. A half health hero can be taken down by any lvl 1 hero using stim and proper stutterstepping.
yes but if they see you pushing the lane they just push it back, theres no timing involved, just "strategy". You'd need to be pretty damn lucky to get a lvl 2 kill on a non-retard. Maybe i'll be lucky enough to get you in another game so you can school me and i can figure out why this should be fun
I really wish i could upload the replay files from korea, but they aren't compatible. There is no luck involved in killing heroes at lvl 2. You just need a mana potion. Depending on what hero you play, you can kill the opponent pretty quickly.
What does mana potion do? at 350 gas you can buy and use with the hotkey 'w' It regenrates 400 mana per secon for around 5 seconds. So once you have enough mana to perform all the skills you have, you find your opponent. Wait till he is not near his base, Run drink potion spam skills dead. (well it's not that easy, but characters with slow/stun/trap can do it with more ease)
The game is all about taking over watch tower positions. So you don't get ambushed and get killed. Early stage, your hp is really low so those mana potions are deadly.
It does cost money so you have to be sure that you can kill him when you use it. Otherwise you waste a lot of money in the early stage and that's critical.
well when i read that it kind of turns me off. The way you kill people is just "spam all skills". Doesn't seem like theres much finesse. Theres no significant cooldowns i've run into apart from dying, but what skill is there in a game where you just spam shit at people. In a game like hon/dota timing your skills to coincide with your allies abilities is key to getting off a successful gank
I did say it's not that simple. I think the best way is to play with competant players or me uploading a replay that is good. I'll see if i can get some replays. All i can say for now is give it some time so people understand the game more.
Even tho you can spam skills, the health point in this game is pretty large. It can get upto 13000 for some characters. So yeah you have to be good at aiming the skills, and using it right. There are techniques where you can bend the skill effect, canceling charge technique, knowing the properties of the skill hit boxes, etc...
It's easy to start off, and when ppl stomp pub easily, they tend to think this is it. And the next stage they play with the people in clans and get raped pretty badly. (this is korea btw) From that point, they learn all sorts of new techniques and find out that there are a lot of things you have to know in this game and practice to become good. Right now, the game is at early stage (5 days since release in NA) and i've been called cheater in one of the games because the way i play the game is so different. They just don't understand. (and i'm around average level in clan battles in korea) It was exactly like this in the early stages of KR server. So in time they'll eventually become like the KR lvl is right now.
Playing with assajocuna or maxstorm the korean guys is awesome because they know how to play. Playing against them is so hectic and fast its like a different game gj assa (justin)
One small problem with this game is that when you learn a stat/skill with your mineral, the hero stops whatever he was doing (ie, stops moving or attacking, etc). Other than that, the game is so much fun :D. Thank you so much for uploading this to N.A server.
On January 05 2011 19:32 vulture7 wrote: One small problem with this game is that when you learn a stat/skill with your mineral, the hero stops whatever he was doing (ie, stops moving or attacking, etc). Other than that, the game is so much fun :D. Thank you so much for uploading this to N.A server.
YES.
Oh god, I've been nuked a few times when I upgraded some skills while running back to the restoration building. -_-
I think I might play tonight and try out some melee heroes. assajocuna (I hope I spelt that right) tore shit up with the firebat hero ... maybe I'll try him out. xD
Hey i remember you two justin and moonloop from games. Pretty good playing for only 4 days so far.
Yeah the upgrade stat makes all your action stop. But you can get used to it. (gotta think what should i put on? 2 mana? ok tab r tab r, while doing this i gotta continue moving with my mouse)
Force Fire (the firebat) is pretty good during the start~middle stage of the game and does average in late game. He does have a lot of HP (one of the highest).
One of the two games I played yesterday had a Justin in it, he went like 15-0 with medic dude. I got close to killing him a few times with some missile strike ambushes (I was reaper dude - lookAghost) but it's hard to kill someone when they're 6 levels ahead lol.
What's up with the card shop - are some of them temporary buffs? How many cards can you have at a time? And the security soldiers on either side of the map, what are they good for besides xp?
You can buy as many card buffs as you want. Just need money (and it only lasts few minutes so normally it's used for end game when you bought all the items, or you can buy just 1 if you need to destroy buildings faster)
The security soldiers and the dump trucks on the side are for people who are having trouble lvling up (getting ganked too much). You can sort of lvl up safe there. The exp isn't that bad.
how are you supposed to survive against those crazy dps heroes??
I play random, and when I get one of the 2 DT or the zealot or even the ghost sniper girl, I 2 hit everything and go 20-2
While if I get the guy on the void ray or that tentacle dude I'll never do half as good, and if im against any of those crazy dps guys all I can do is dodge them because they will kill me if I get close
You're supposed to dodge them and nuke them back. Almost every hero in the game has crazy nuking power, it's a matter of who can start rolling sooner (who gets fed more). This game punishes teams with bad players more than almost any other game of its sort. By end-game it tends to be a skillshot dodge fest with players dodging each others' skillshots while trying to land their own.
On January 06 2011 05:47 Southlight wrote: You're supposed to dodge them and nuke them back. Almost every hero in the game has crazy nuking power, it's a matter of who can start rolling sooner (who gets fed more). This game punishes teams with bad players more than almost any other game of its sort. By end-game it tends to be a skillshot dodge fest with players dodging each others' skillshots while trying to land their own.
What you are saying goes against my last 12 matches, the crazy dps guys can charge and slowdown, my teammates we're mostly new and had barely any kills yet I won by myself
with the zealot you can do rampage and his aoe that slow you down and you are fucked(how can you dodge rampage anyway????) the DT with knight mode can slow down with his throwing knives and then rape you with knight mode the other DT has a AOE that slow down too if i remember right and his purple attack of doom will own you (that one is dodgeable so it's not as bad) the sniper girl sniped me for 4.5k then finished me with her aoe lightning thing
the tentacle dude had no real way to do dps, all I could do was some lightning thing that would slow down ppl running after me, but 2 of my 3 attacks were close ranged and my dps sucked compared to the DT with his purple attack of doom
Except one time, all my teammates had 0-10 scores or like 3-8 scores and we still won because I had 20 kills by myself because of the crazy dps heroes(I can take 3 ppl at once, ive won many 2vs1), but when I had the tentacle guy and the voidray dude, I went 3-8 because the zealot or DT would solo me easily.
The only time It happened like you said was when it was DT with the purple thing of doom vs DT with the purple thing of doom, all the other time it was a one sided rape from the high dps heroes
thats why i'm asking how to survive against those
Edit: Which heroes would counter the high dps heroes?
On January 05 2011 00:29 Southlight wrote: I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended, but when I have a party of 3 I can't "join" games, I can only create, which means when I roll with 3 it's by default a ridiculous advantage for me and my friends.
Re-quoting because this is a fairly large issue IMO.
On January 05 2011 00:29 Southlight wrote: I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended, but when I have a party of 3 I can't "join" games, I can only create, which means when I roll with 3 it's by default a ridiculous advantage for me and my friends.
Re-quoting because this is a fairly large issue IMO.
dont the teams get randomized anyway? i was in a game with janook and tkedoop yesterday and i'm pretty sure the teams got jumbled when the game started anyway
Knight mode or rampage mode (every mode for melee heroes) are normally only used in pubs in korea. In high level clan battle nobody uses them but get the ultimate instead.
To beat them, remember they are all melee and they have to come near you to hit. Aim well, slow, stun trap, if your hero doesn't have those skills, stay in watch towers or just push towers with your ally. And always think how could i kill those melee heroes fast? Always have a mana potion and when you see them coming to take the watch tower position you are in, drink mana potion and nuke them while they can't see you.
If you don't want to die fast, always take watch tower position. The game is about fighting over watch towers, and pushing the lane, destroying buildings faster. Never stop hunting creeps, or destroying all the trucks, boxes you see. Those trucks give you pretty big exp in the beginning. Buy HP, shield packs when you have good amount mana regen/etc to survive. By the end of lvl 10 you would want at least 3K. BTW the tentacle dude does the most DPS against buildings. It's not that good for hero killing. Destroy buildings fast and get advantage in lvl ahead of the opponent. Every hero has their strong point, you just have to figure it out and practice.
Trust me the balance is pretty good, almost every character is used widely in korean tournaments. There are always ways to beat certain play. MOST IMPORTANT TIP: take watch tower position whenever you can, walk in between them when you go towards enemy base. When you see enemy coming near you, and you think you can't kill him, then stim and run away. There are blink characters, charge characters, long range trap characters so you have to think and act fast.
PS. sniping skill does 1k~2k damage average on max lvl atk stat. It can do around 4K damage but only comes out 10% of the time. Once she use that skill and throw out a bomb, you don't have any good damage you can deal after that. So she pretty much sucks in the later stage of the game. The other skill you can learn which is BM gun is better in the late stage. If you choose sniping, you have to get that early advantage and get lvl ahead of everyone or else she sucks in the later stage.
It's so hard to find a game with people who actually know how to play, I've only had one game in the last 5 where people on both teams have a clue. It's very boring when the game is so one sided, and it does seem to take a long time to end when that happens.
Nothing we can do about that Just gotta wait until more and more people play. Maybe i can ask maxstorm to add link to this thread on the title page of the game so people can read about the strats and gameplay. If i can post a replay, maybe it would help a lot.
Game is hella fun but some of the heros are just absolutley ridiculously strong. Had a game where this other guy was the zealot and we needed to 3v1 him just to break even usually @ levle 25. Was insane. Played as the hybrid one game and I was able to do about the same thing as well.
Wish the heros were a bit beefier or something so you're not just spamming skills and hoping the other guy dies before he can press his abilities.
On January 05 2011 00:29 Southlight wrote: I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended, but when I have a party of 3 I can't "join" games, I can only create, which means when I roll with 3 it's by default a ridiculous advantage for me and my friends.
Re-quoting because this is a fairly large issue IMO.
It's like that in every game afaik
FML. Bnet2.0, making team games unfair forever. Sigh. We've started leaving as a team like 15 minutes into a game because we usually have a retarded lead by that point, it's almost impossible for the other team to have three competent players while we have three guys who've played games with each other for years and have like 4000 DotA/LoL games under our belts -_-
On January 05 2011 00:29 Southlight wrote: I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended, but when I have a party of 3 I can't "join" games, I can only create, which means when I roll with 3 it's by default a ridiculous advantage for me and my friends.
Re-quoting because this is a fairly large issue IMO.
It's like that in every game afaik
FML. Bnet2.0, making team games unfair forever. Sigh. We've started leaving as a team like 15 minutes into a game because we usually have a retarded lead by that point, it's almost impossible for the other team to have three competent players while we have three guys who've played games with each other for years and have like 4000 DotA/LoL games under our belts -_-
On January 06 2011 14:10 myopia wrote: uh... unless they make fundamental changes to Bnet 2.0 between now and then, Blizzard's DotA clone is going to be just as bad.
To be fair though, the old Bnet didn't have matchmaking for custom games either.
On January 06 2011 14:10 myopia wrote: uh... unless they make fundamental changes to Bnet 2.0 between now and then, Blizzard's DotA clone is going to be just as bad.
To be fair though, the old Bnet didn't have matchmaking for custom games either.
It's not even an issue of matchmaking, it's that there is 0% chance of running into another team of 3. Because you can't join as 3. Hence, if we make as 3 we're guaranteed to never run against another team of 3. This makes no sense
Some dumbass is afk in a public custom lobby for this map. So people keep popping into that lobby and leaving/giving up on the map because the host is afk.
On January 06 2011 14:10 myopia wrote: uh... unless they make fundamental changes to Bnet 2.0 between now and then, Blizzard's DotA clone is going to be just as bad.
To be fair though, the old Bnet didn't have matchmaking for custom games either.
It's not even an issue of matchmaking, it's that there is 0% chance of running into another team of 3. Because you can't join as 3. Hence, if we make as 3 we're garenteed to never run against another team of 3. This makes no sense
This is the main reason why I stopped playing DotA. That and WC3's UI isn't conducive to these games, and SC2's UI isn't any better.
Oh well, it's not like I want to get hooked on this right after dropping LoL.
On January 07 2011 02:56 Macabre wrote: Playing now, join up.
And to the people above.. ever here of invite to game? You can just have your friends join that way.
This doesn't solve the problem. First you have to find a game with exactly 3 people, somehow know that these 3 people created the game as a team, then invite your two other friends and hope they can join before someone else takes their spot. It's Bnet 1.0 all over again.
On January 07 2011 02:56 Macabre wrote: Playing now, join up.
And to the people above.. ever here of invite to game? You can just have your friends join that way.
If I have a group of three, I will almost always be Creating a game because I don't want to have to rely on some semi-afk/douche/not-my-problem host to invite two of my friends into a game in which he's 90% of the time going to be a solo anyways.
If I create a game, there's 0 chance of another 3-man team joining my game because they, too, will be creating a game.
Hence, guaranteed to never encounter a random 3v3, except in a full 6-man invite ala Inhouse or pre-determined match (via a third-party ladder or something).
That said...
On January 07 2011 02:54 myopia wrote:Oh well, it's not like I want to get hooked on this right after dropping LoL.
True that!
And WC3's interface wasn't any better but at least the odds of running into another team wasn't 0%. Impossible and not likely are different things, the latter you have to deal with as a consequence of non-MM systems, that's fine. The former is a joke, in the year 2010.
On January 07 2011 02:56 Macabre wrote: Playing now, join up.
And to the people above.. ever here of invite to game? You can just have your friends join that way.
This doesn't solve the problem. First you have to find a game with exactly 3 people, somehow know that these 3 people created the game as a team, then invite your two other friends and hope they can join before someone else takes their spot. It's Bnet 1.0 all over again.
On January 07 2011 02:56 Macabre wrote: Playing now, join up.
And to the people above.. ever here of invite to game? You can just have your friends join that way.
This doesn't solve the problem. First you have to find a game with exactly 3 people, somehow know that these 3 people created the game as a team, then invite your two other friends and hope they can join before someone else takes their spot. It's Bnet 1.0 all over again.
Can't ask the host?? ehh
you aren't reading...
On January 07 2011 03:15 Southlight wrote: If I have a group of three, I will almost always be Creating a game because I don't want to have to rely on some semi-afk/douche/not-my-problem host to invite two of my friends into a game in which he's 90% of the time going to be a solo anyways.
If I create a game, there's 0 chance of another 3-man team joining my game because they, too, will be creating a game.
Hence, guaranteed to never encounter a random 3v3, except in a full 6-man invite ala Inhouse or pre-determined match (via a third-party ladder or something).
Replay from last year christmas tournament in korea. Very high level, it was semi-finals. Keep in mind that the map looks different because it was during a christmas event. But it's basically the same thing. Defense system changed from then, also some skills got nuffed. 90% of this replay is basically the same as the english version.
On January 07 2011 23:52 assajocuna wrote: Replay from last year christmas tournament in korea. Very high level, it was semi-finals. Keep in mind that the map looks different because it was during a christmas event. But it's basically the same thing. Defense system changed from then, also some skills got nuffed. 90% of this replay is basically the same as the english version.
I think you can view this from EU too even if the map is not up yet. (i think it connects to korean server and download the map to view)
The map will be published on EU server before the end of this week. (most likely sunday)
PS. got the random team thing fixed. Now the game starts like how the team is in lobby.
I just watched that entire rep even though I've never played the game before :D
Seemed pretty sweet with some epic battles. The queen seemed to pwn late game, destryoing all those buildings with ease. I wonder why so many DTs were used, cause theyre so good a killing heros?
Can you put a basic build in the loading screen?? like 5 minerals in mana, the rest in attack and little in health/speed depending on need, use gas for mana with either potions or upgrades
How important is armor I've seen some people put a lot into it and just tanked other heroes with not as high hp? Seems like the most obvious way is to just pump attack but I'm curious if putting stat points into armor instead might make those rampage mode dts and zealots easier to kill.
I don't understand how the ZurrCellant (sp?) hero can be called balanced when he's so freaking good at killing heroes AND creeps. Like, why can he take on a team 1v3 and win? That hook grab needs to be an actual skillshot instead of an instant grab that seals your fate and can't be dodged when the hero is using both of his retarded speed boosts.
One of Zava's skill had 50% damage up effect which the creator didn't eve know lol. Got that fixed and little nurf, she's still good but yeah not as good as in the replay. But Zava is for pros. It's really hard to control her as fast as that guy (the guy in the replay is like the top 2 zava in korea).
Armor system has changed since that replay. The way it is now is percentage deduction. Characters with high health property(you can look at character status if you put your mouse cursour on their wireframe image or when the game starts you see them on the character selection box) they gain about 300 hp if you put 1 point of mineral on health. Those are most likely melee. Most of the magician class has 1/5 or 2/5 health status. So they don't gain as much hp as melee heroes with 4/5 or 5/5 health status. It can be better to put points on armor instead since it gives you 2% all damage deduction for any character. If you buy all the armor pack and invest a lot of points in armor, it'll give around 50% armor. (depending on some heroes, you can get high upto 70% or so)
Lurrcellant hook has been talked many times in korea for being imba. But there are many ways to get over him so surprisingly in tournaments, i haven't seen much domination (actually just saw 2 in the last tournament and didn't do well. Zeros and blade hunter owned them hard). Depending on this tournament result, we might see some more balance tweak.
Right now everything might seem imba since it's just the beginning stage and there aren't many good players. I hope this replay help out a bit. I'll try and post other replays with different characters.
Anyone have any request on which characters they want to see in high level?
I'll try and get some more important tips to show on loading screen in the next update. The replay was done on korean version of starcraft2, you normally you can see how many points they put into their status, but somehow it doesn't show if you run the replay from different language.
The map from the replay is the same map in NA server called "C.T - City of Tempest" It'll be up on EU server soon. Other then those places, you can't play
Somebody wrote this in korean forum. It's the character usage in non-pub games (including clan battles). People new to this game can choose what to start with (give u an idea which heroes are strong).
1. Always selected either 1 or more in a game (strong candidates getting nuffed next version) -Zeros, Lur-Cellant
2. Selected quite a lot (Very strong, probably best place to start since most of em are easy to get started) -Duran, Blade Hunter, Drago, Ron, Dark Fact
3. Average or little above average (used often but nowhere near imba) -Zava, Black Wyvern, Mighty Monk, Force Fire, Soul Hunter, Genesic Hunter, Janne D'arc
4. Seldom gets picked but they are not weak (especially Hades is really strong) -Berr.Nine, Megagunzord, Dwarf King, Guard Fire, Hades, ZeDait
5. Below Average, hard to see in nonpub rooms. -Phantom, Sylon, Chimera, Brie
This just gives you brief image of how it is in high level game. There is a lot of debate going on about Lur-Cellant's hook being imba. Probably depending on next week's big tournament in korea, there might be a nuff.
Oh, and there might be a chance that EU version will get up on monday depending on when we receive our cdkey for eu account (it's weekends so yeah .. .crap. whenever we get the cdkey, it'll be up right away)
It depends on the character you are using. But one simple method is harass him so he doesn't lvl up fast.
Stay in the watch tower, he has to come near creep to attack, so whenever you see him moving towards creep, use your aoe skill on him when he is near his own creep. This way you attack both him and the creeps for exp. Make his life low, he'll have to run back to recover making you more time to lvl up. Lur-cellant is pretty weak when he is behind lvl. All his skill are close ranged (maybe except one which sucks on far range) and you won't die fast from his hooks (so when he finished attacking, and you survive, you can kill him instead). It's all about controlling the beginning stage.
Occupying watch tower is important. Watch everything he does. If he knows he has hard time creeping, he'll most likely hit boxes or trucks. Just last hit steal them. If you play melee heroes, kill him early before he gets hook and becomes strong. Invest mineral on health point. (gives around 300 hp per mineral for melee heroes except Zeros who has low health) If you survive his hook + combination, you can kill him before he finsishes you with a mana potion. He doesn't have a ulti so after hook + 2-3 attacks, he won't deal much damage on you, where as if you play melee, you would have ulti that would do big damage.
Also if he wants to kill you with hook combo, he'll most likely have to use potion. So when you invested some point on health for melee hereoes, they won't die at same lvl with hook combo, if you think you can beat him, go ahead, if not you can run away. Try to make him waste mana potions early. 350 gas early is critical)
Thanks a lot. Although, I still feel like his lategame is still a problem. But anyway, it sounds like there's a good deal of depth to this game, though I haven't experienced it all yet, looking forward to playing some more.
I played a few games of this as Phantom today. I went something like 75-5, all 5 deaths due to a Genesic that I couldn't handle. Otherwise, the guy seems remarkably good. Very fast, excellent range, incredible DPS -- his spell cooldowns are so short.
I'm wondering why he's bottom tier? The Genesic kinda kicked my ass a bit, but I blame that more on my inability to accurately aim my spells on such a fast unit than anything else, really. Is there some weakness Phantom has that can be exploited? I realize the quality of player in pub games tends to be awful, but he didn't seem bottom tier.
On January 09 2011 00:02 Kanil wrote: I played a few games of this as Phantom today. I went something like 75-5, all 5 deaths due to a Genesic that I couldn't handle. Otherwise, the guy seems remarkably good. Very fast, excellent range, incredible DPS -- his spell cooldowns are so short.
I'm wondering why he's bottom tier? The Genesic kinda kicked my ass a bit, but I blame that more on my inability to accurately aim my spells on such a fast unit than anything else, really. Is there some weakness Phantom has that can be exploited? I realize the quality of player in pub games tends to be awful, but he didn't seem bottom tier.
I was wondering the same thing after a game I played today. Another guy had the Phantom and did pretty well for himself. He didn't dominate, but he did really well. And I've seen Phantoms dominate before.
Perhaps he's really strong for newer players, but not so much for pros?
Personally I'm really liking Force Fire at the moment. I enjoy Lur Cellant, but I don't like playing as a character who's possibly imba.
Being able to throw down ten flame turrets is just awesome. ^^
On January 08 2011 17:32 assajocuna wrote: Somebody wrote this in korean forum. It's the character usage in non-pub games (including clan battles). People new to this game can choose what to start with (give u an idea which heroes are strong).
1. Always selected either 1 or more in a game (strong candidates getting nuffed next version) -Zeros, Lur-Cellant
2. Selected quite a lot (Very strong, probably best place to start since most of em are easy to get started) -Duran, Blade Hunter, Drago, Ron, Dark Fact
3. Average or little above average (used often but nowhere near imba) -Zava, Black Wyvern, Mighty Monk, Force Fire, Soul Hunter, Genesic Hunter, Janne D'arc
4. Seldom gets picked but they are not weak (especially Hades is really strong) -Berr.Nine, Megagunzord, Dwarf King, Guard Fire, Hades, ZeDait
5. Below Average, hard to see in nonpub rooms. -Phantom, Sylon, Chimera, Brie
This just gives you brief image of how it is in high level game. There is a lot of debate going on about Lur-Cellant's hook being imba. Probably depending on next week's big tournament in korea, there might be a nuff.
What exactly makes zeros overpowered, I've tried him a few times and he doesn't seem that great compared to Lur Cellant which like completely dominates everyone.
What exactly makes zeros overpowered, I've tried him a few times and he doesn't seem that great compared to Lur Cellant which like completely dominates everyone.
I've played against good Zeros's a few times, his skills are ridiculously powerful and he can kill you in a matter of seconds.
Perhaps Lur Cellant is better, but Zeros is still incredibly strong.
What exactly makes zeros overpowered, I've tried him a few times and he doesn't seem that great compared to Lur Cellant which like completely dominates everyone.
I've played against good Zeros's a few times, his skills are ridiculously powerful and he can kill you in a matter of seconds.
Perhaps Lur Cellant is better, but Zeros is still incredibly strong.
Which skills are you referring to because it could be that I'm just using him wrong.
This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Yeah you guys have some pretty good players. Justin and his friends are learning really fast. People who want to play full room with good players, add Justin(on the player list in page 1 top) on friend list. The game is totally different when you play against ppl who know how to play.
Europe version coming soon today. Got the cdkey
Korean version just got patched and yeah Lurcellant got nuffed as expected. He is still strong but not at the top now.
Zeros is considered strong because he can level up the fastest for melee hero. (uses least mana to hunt creeps. the first skill small aoe) Also he is the hero that can kill other heros fast starting from lvl 2(strongest hero in the beginning). Once you get that advantage going, and you played right, you'll be ahead in lvl. All his spells are aoe. 2nd skill range is ridiculously long, both his ultis are extremely good (easy control pick the 1 mineral blink+damage ulti. for one shot power but harder to aim - get 2 mineral version. On ATP UP stat full point, you get 3500 damage for the 2nd ulti. Strongest damage in game. Just not that easy to aim since it's kinda slow)
Phantom can still be very useful in team. But he won't contribute much to team fights or go ganking well. He is more of sneaking around avoiding any enemy and setting up his missile towers (first skill) to destroy turrets, buildings fast.
Phantom good/bad point: good = 3rd fastest hero, high dps (normal attack), can run away well going through cliffs, you can shoot out skills on fog (no vision) bad = skills do low damage from middle stage of the game, low hp, basically cannot beat 1:1 against most of the heroes if they are at equal skill level. Has the worst tower compared to others. (actually about the same as Megagunzord's tower. they both kinda sucks compared to any other tower.)
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
How to I level up as Genesic? I always kill the creeps before they reach the tower, and I always kill whatever gas barrels pop out and both trucks as well. I rack up heavily on kills as well. For some reason, my teammates are always higher level than me. A typical game would be both my teammates at lvl 12 with 0-0, 1-0, or 0-1, while I'm at lvl 10 with 4-0. They're not stealing any of my creeps either.
Does genesic hunter naturally level up slower, or is there something I'm doing wrong?
Lvl up is all the same. Only thing that takes away exp from you is if you have summoned something and that summoned kills creeps, buildings, it takes half exp away from you.
Killing hero won't give much exp early on. Just gives you more time to hunt alone + get bonus gas.
Hey sorry about before assajocuna, I went to join the game but bnet lagged and I wouldn't join - so I logged out and tried to rejoin but by that time your game had already started.
Feel free to invite me again any time you see me on - even though I won't be as good as you guys it'd be nice to play with guaranteed skilled people. =)
There probably won't be that many people so put up your nick name/code and i'll make a list of players for EU too. You can make single room and see the skills etc for now, or invite your friends to play. Enjoy~~~
On January 09 2011 17:03 assajocuna wrote: Anyone having problems lately with shops? I got a report saying you cannot access shop from bottom team (team 2)
Also some stuff like character names aren't coming out correctly and shows paramter/ whatever thingy.
Bottom team was complaining about that in the game I just played and I've been getting that parameter stuff for awhile.
Teamliquid, we got a problem. We just created our first City of Tempest game and we are only 2 people atm. Unfortunately we are not able to play 1on1. The map puts us always in team 1, no matter what we do (putting us in different teams and filling it up with AI wont work, putting us in different teams without filling the game up with AI doesnt work either.) Please help. It wont help to promote the game if it is only playable with excactly 6 people. The map should auto balance the teams.
How to make 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. First make room, fill up all spaces with AI. Remove AI from the other team, after all this, invite your friend and he'll be on team 2. If it's 2 on 2, do same method as above, but fill team 2 first and then open up slot in team 1 and invite the last player.
I'll add the list for EU players. Hope this helped.
On January 09 2011 16:15 assajocuna wrote: Np, whenever you want to join in msg me.
I would but I don't have your character code. =P
Also, do you have any replays of someone using Force Fire at a high level? If you do, would you mind posting them? The more recent the better, I'd like to look at some builds and whatnot. =)
Thank you for the information glad that there weren't any problems with the shops. You might see some parameter thing coming out but it's not important in game. Just a little messy till we find out what's wrong and fix it.
I'll see if i can find a Force Fire replay. He isn't used much so yeah it's rare.
About the hotkey, i think you have to get used to it. Not much problem once u play a lot and get used to it.
Anyone new to this game wants to know the general flow of the game, you can download the replay file from the front page and view. It's very high level tournament replay so there is a lot of things going on at fast pace.
It's in korean version so the fonts won't appear correctly (but the game runs the same as english version. just a little bit older version)
One weird question: if two players create the same map with the same mods and both press the "make this game public" button - will they automatically join each others game? because i have a small feeling that it works that way....
this map is definetly not newbie-friendly. i feel like there are at least 3-5players who wont play this map anymore because they got raped in their first game..
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to;
a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane
Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to;
a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane
Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to;
a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane
Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to;
a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane
Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote: This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going?
Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out.
It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack.
Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times.
Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play.
What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens.
Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game.
I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to;
a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane
Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
Ok, back to your original point. What you're suggesting is kind of inevitable. There already is a frequent players list on the first page and with the addition of chat channels it's almost certain that someone would start a channel for this game and its a good idea for people who want to play with other good people.
Yeah i think i should get the game tips at the loading screen changed to a general build ex) mana 5 -> all atk up (speed if you need in between these)
That is a good build for most of the characters. Ofcourse in high level, heroes have different builds and these kinds of information it's hard to find unless u experiment.
I hope the 1.2 chat channel helps arrange inhouse games.
Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
Thank you for the tips and the replay - I generally forgo the +attack item as I find the 800 minerals better spent on mana or shields - but you seem to be better so I'll give what you advocate a try.
I don't agree with him being OP though. He's mid-tier in Korea - if he really was overpowered more people would be using him, wouldn't they?
Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
Thank you for the tips and the replay - I generally forgo the +attack item as I find the 800 minerals better spent on mana or shields - but you seem to be better so I'll give what you advocate a try.
I don't agree with him being OP though. He's mid-tier in Korea - if he really was overpowered more people would be using him, wouldn't they?
Possibly, yes. The hero isn't overpowered. In fact, I'd agree he's a mid tier hero. His spammable teleport+snare is, though. It can pretty much guarantee that nobody gets away from you, and is invaluable in team fights for that very reason. By the time the snare wears off, your spell is off CD. And you don't generally need +speed because you can simply use stim if your opponent outruns you while snared.
Also, use your judgement on shop upgrades. The +ATK really speeds up farming early-game. It basically doubles your damage. It's usefulness wears off later when you stop using your autoattack and start relying on spells more, but by then you should be ahead in level and income anyway because of the increased farming speed, and your +ATK upgrade ends up paying for itself.
However, you can skip it for mana regen if you want to get your spells out faster. You'll lose a few early game kills, though, I think.
On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote: Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
I think it can be useful. But you won't get early kills since your mana is low and cannot benefit from mana potion. But hunting will be fast (trucks melt fast when you buy ATK item)
Also be sure to stand on the side part of marine creeps when you are doing normal attack.
If you look at Force Fire's attack motion, he attacks with a flame thrower and it's very long. You can hit multiple (actually the whole 1st group of marines) creeps when you stand next to them from side or that specific angle.
On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote: Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot;
If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool.
Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you.
The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all.
Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off.
On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote: Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot;
If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool.
Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you.
The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all.
Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off.
Sorry mate but with you're build you will not have any mana early and will get crushed early game in a non pub and will not be able to get kills mid game without mana pots
I also do a +5 into mana and then start to focus on attack and health. The reasoning behind this is since every hero has AOE attacks by 3 points into mana I behind it much more effective to level up via spells and to spend early gas into mana regen to make this more effective. In my opinion it takes less time to kill enemies through spells than to use the actual attack.
I played against Serejai while I was trying out Ron (name is Phobos) and in my opinion, the way he opened with the +ATK upgrade and all skill points in ATK was pretty devastating, early game heroes have like 1-1.5k health and he was doing 200+ with his normal attack. With the head butt, I was getting smoked VERY fast. I disagree about trying this opening with all heroes though, some heroes do not have a very powerful normal attack and have pretty deadly mp spells early on. With most melee heroes, I can see this to be a very valid build. Not using those 5 points into mp means either 10% damage reduction through armor or 1500 hp which is a huge difference.
On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote: Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot;
If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool.
Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you.
The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all.
Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off.
Sorry mate but with you're build you will not have any mana early and will get crushed early game in a non pub and will not be able to get kills mid game without mana pots
Again, without +ATK UP at the start you won't do enough damage to kill anything, including experience crates/trucks. Doesn't matter how much mana you have. Not to mention you're wasting 5 stat points for late game, as you're unable to max health or ATK UP by putting those points into mana, which you will not need.
While I'm doing something like 70 DPS at level 3 with my autoattack, plus having stim if needed... you're doing like 50 DPS with spells and relying on your mana to not run out. Firebat is a late game hero so gimping your late game AND early game both by going mana doesn't seem rational at all.
I'm curious what your experience level is, though. I play on both the NA and KR servers and have been in a couple non-pub KR matches, and nobody has ever gone mana on Firebat.
Woohoo~~ English version is getting a big update before the korean version. 2 new characters will be added soon.
Reason why is because there's a big tournament scheduled on this sunday. So Maxstorm can't update before the tournament is over. He is going to update at US and probably EU version first.
On January 11 2011 03:02 assajocuna wrote: Woohoo~~ English version is getting a big update before the korean version. 2 new characters will be added soon.
Reason why is because there's a big tournament scheduled on this sunday. So Maxstorm can't update before the tournament is over. He is going to update at US and probably EU version first.
On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote: Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot;
If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool.
Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you.
The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all.
Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off.
Sorry mate but with you're build you will not have any mana early and will get crushed early game in a non pub and will not be able to get kills mid game without mana pots
Again, without +ATK UP at the start you won't do enough damage to kill anything, including experience crates/trucks. Doesn't matter how much mana you have. Not to mention you're wasting 5 stat points for late game, as you're unable to max health or ATK UP by putting those points into mana, which you will not need.
While I'm doing something like 70 DPS at level 3 with my autoattack, plus having stim if needed... you're doing like 50 DPS with spells and relying on your mana to not run out. Firebat is a late game hero so gimping your late game AND early game both by going mana doesn't seem rational at all.
I'm curious what your experience level is, though. I play on both the NA and KR servers and have been in a couple non-pub KR matches, and nobody has ever gone mana on Firebat.
Personally I haven`t played Firebat, but you`ll find that the 5 into mana early on is extremely important because 70 dps doesn`t mean anything when you`re going to have champions bursting you for 500+ a shot at lv 3.
Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Firebat is a late game hero. You're not supposed to engage in the early game. Again, wasting five of your stat points on mana which you won't need at all late game (when your hero matters) instead of on health or damage (which you will need) is just a bad choice.
You won't be getting any early game kills if you go mana, and you'll be gimping yourself for the late game. In addition, you drastically slow down your crate/truck farming (which is all any class should be doing until level 3 anyway, as you will out level your lane opponent if they simply farm).
Mana may work for a few champs, but I've played about 80% of them so far and +ATK UP has always been superior on the ones I've used by far. Like... it's very noticeable.
On January 11 2011 03:02 assajocuna wrote: Woohoo~~ English version is getting a big update before the korean version. 2 new characters will be added soon.
Reason why is because there's a big tournament scheduled on this sunday. So Maxstorm can't update before the tournament is over. He is going to update at US and probably EU version first.
Abel + Arcane coming soon.
Oo, is Abel gonna be like the Street Fighter 4 Abel? If so that would be kick ass!
So, the new version is out on NA. Arcane is rigged as hell. His ult basically does about 15k damage near-instantly to a radius the size of a pancake. I won't even get into his other abilities, or how insanely broken his autoattack is (150+ damage at level 3, line AOE... can wipe out an entire creep wave in mere seconds, plus damage the other player).
I'm about to try out Abel now, but the one in my last game seemed weak. Perhaps it's because I was literally 1v3ing and killing all three of them in one hit without taking any damage (did I mention Arcane has an ability to absorb all damage taken? That + Ult = guaranteed instant kill every time).
Anyway, it's really really broken and doesn't seem like the map maker tested this new hero at all before releasing it. Expecting (hoping) for a severe nerf ASAP. The game just isn't fun to play right now because of him.
I was afk/alt-tabbing a lot so I had some stupid deaths and some afk parts... and the last 5 minutes are just blank because I was afking again. But you can clearly see how ridiculous this hero is at the moment.
On January 11 2011 06:57 Serejai wrote: Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Firebat is a late game hero. You're not supposed to engage in the early game. Again, wasting five of your stat points on mana which you won't need at all late game (when your hero matters) instead of on health or damage (which you will need) is just a bad choice.
You won't be getting any early game kills if you go mana, and you'll be gimping yourself for the late game. In addition, you drastically slow down your crate/truck farming (which is all any class should be doing until level 3 anyway, as you will out level your lane opponent if they simply farm).
Mana may work for a few champs, but I've played about 80% of them so far and +ATK UP has always been superior on the ones I've used by far. Like... it's very noticeable.
Hey man I watched the rep... I really tried to see where you were coming from but there are such huge flaws and it baffles me how you think that you can kill any competent player without mana and how you think getting mana will not help you get kills.
First of all with your build you are standing there for 20 secs killing a truck and hoping it wont get stolen by your opponent or even a jerk ally. Any good player with a nuke will look to steal it and it will be very easy to do so.
Second the players in your rep were obviously horrible and you used your headbutt and they stood there to let you kill them. Against good people they would obviously kite you and spam their nukes on you. They would use their mana pots and you would be dead at lvl 3 no question.
I've played with the korean developers of the map many times and they both advocate 5 points into mana unless you use a specialised build (3points in mana all atk etc) and I really do not see how this is a viable form of play but I'd like to see how you think that against competent players a no mana build would ever work where you've only got 75 mana at level 3. With a mana pot it would be incredibly easy to kill you and you would be using stimpack to fight back.
On January 11 2011 06:57 Serejai wrote: Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Firebat is a late game hero. You're not supposed to engage in the early game. Again, wasting five of your stat points on mana which you won't need at all late game (when your hero matters) instead of on health or damage (which you will need) is just a bad choice.
You won't be getting any early game kills if you go mana, and you'll be gimping yourself for the late game. In addition, you drastically slow down your crate/truck farming (which is all any class should be doing until level 3 anyway, as you will out level your lane opponent if they simply farm).
Mana may work for a few champs, but I've played about 80% of them so far and +ATK UP has always been superior on the ones I've used by far. Like... it's very noticeable.
Hey man I watched the rep... I really tryed to see where you were coming from but there are such huge flaws and it baffles me how you think that you can kill any competent player without mana and how you think getting mana will not help you get kills. First of all with your build you are standing there for 20 secs killing a truck and hoping it wont get stolen by your opponent or even a jerk ally. Any good player with a skill in a nuke will look to steal it and it will be very easy to do so. Second the players in your rep were obviously horrible and you used your spell and they stood there to let you kill them. Against good people they would obviously kite you and spam their nukes on you. They would use their mana pots and you would be dead at lvl 3 no question. I've played with the korean developers of the map many times and they both advocate 5 points into mana unless you use a specialised build (3points in mana all atk etc) and I really do not see how this is a viable form of play but I'd like to see how you think that against competent players a no mana build would ever work?
The same developers that let an insanely overpowered hero like Arcane into the game with little to no testing? You should take anything a game dev says with a grain of salt. Nearly all game devs are terrible at their own games.
Also, it's pretty much basic math and theorycrafting. You do not need +mana at all late game. You get more than enough from shop upgrades. Therefore, those five points you spend in mana stats are taking away 1500 health or a few hundred damage on your spells. Living through early game is extremely easy to do if you pay attention and don't try to engage. No hero can kill you by level 3 unless you're just playing really poorly (or if they're Arcane).
If somebody wants to waste points on mana and spend all of their income on mana pots, that's perfect. Not only will I be ahead of them in level AND income, but when it comes to late game I'll be ahead of them in stats, too.
As of now I've played the Firebat a total of 9 times, and I've played against a Firebat probably 4 or 5. Not once have I had any issues like you claim in your post, and neither have the Firebats I've played against. In fact, they all went +ATK UP, too. Most importantly of all, I have yet to lose a match with this setup and have only had three deaths total.
What it comes down to is that starting the game with +5 mana severly gimps your leveling capability and you'll end up being out leveled by your opponent. On top of that, Firebat simply cannot kill anyone early game because a) his skills are designed to be used in rapid succession, which you don't have the mana pool for and b) without any +ATK UP, your spells do too little damage to kill anyway. Firebat is a tank/support, NOT a nuker.
And most importantly of all, that mana does nothing to help your survivability. In fact, +ATK UP helps your survivability by leveling you quicker. Since Firebat has no defensive abilities, if you would get killed by stacking +ATK UP you would get killed even quicker by stacking +mana since your level would be lower and you can't do enough damage to get a kill anyway.
Will this setup work in the CoT World Championship? Who knows. But it's a guaranteed 100% win rate in public matches, and still better odds than going mana in an inhouse match.
You're welcome to upload some of your matches between yourself and the map devs, though. I'd love to see this +mana opening utilized correctly because the math shows it to be inferior in almost every way to +ATK UP openings.
I think you two should add on friend list and play to see how effective both your builds are Either way, this is good seeing various builds and they way Serejai built his build was one of the old LurCellant build where it optimized his amplying auto attack skill.
ATK up item + amply auto attack kill creeps, trucks in seconds. Never really thought of that for Force Fire tho... he does have one of the best auto attack properties. But once the level of play went up on korean pubs, this tactic had so many holes (last hit stealing trucks with skills from watching what you do from watch tower), hitting from far range to make you go back to restore center etc. But yeah if u play well it could work.
It just depends on how well you perform it, and who the opposing hero is.
I haven't tried out the new heroes but yeah they get patched instantly from feedbacks. The first two weeks they are out, it's more like test period. Give me more feedbacks and i'll tell to Max. I'll try out myself today too.
On January 11 2011 06:57 Serejai wrote: Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Firebat is a late game hero. You're not supposed to engage in the early game. Again, wasting five of your stat points on mana which you won't need at all late game (when your hero matters) instead of on health or damage (which you will need) is just a bad choice.
You won't be getting any early game kills if you go mana, and you'll be gimping yourself for the late game. In addition, you drastically slow down your crate/truck farming (which is all any class should be doing until level 3 anyway, as you will out level your lane opponent if they simply farm).
Mana may work for a few champs, but I've played about 80% of them so far and +ATK UP has always been superior on the ones I've used by far. Like... it's very noticeable.
Hey man I watched the rep... I really tryed to see where you were coming from but there are such huge flaws and it baffles me how you think that you can kill any competent player without mana and how you think getting mana will not help you get kills. First of all with your build you are standing there for 20 secs killing a truck and hoping it wont get stolen by your opponent or even a jerk ally. Any good player with a skill in a nuke will look to steal it and it will be very easy to do so. Second the players in your rep were obviously horrible and you used your spell and they stood there to let you kill them. Against good people they would obviously kite you and spam their nukes on you. They would use their mana pots and you would be dead at lvl 3 no question. I've played with the korean developers of the map many times and they both advocate 5 points into mana unless you use a specialised build (3points in mana all atk etc) and I really do not see how this is a viable form of play but I'd like to see how you think that against competent players a no mana build would ever work?
The same developers that let an insanely overpowered hero like Arcane into the game with little to no testing? You should take anything a game dev says with a grain of salt. Nearly all game devs are terrible at their own games.
Also, it's pretty much basic math and theorycrafting. You do not need +mana at all late game. You get more than enough from shop upgrades. Therefore, those five points you spend in mana stats are taking away 1500 health or a few hundred damage on your spells. Living through early game is extremely easy to do if you pay attention and don't try to engage. No hero can kill you by level 3 unless you're just playing really poorly (or if they're Arcane).
If somebody wants to waste points on mana and spend all of their income on mana pots, that's perfect. Not only will I be ahead of them in level AND income, but when it comes to late game I'll be ahead of them in stats, too.
As of now I've played the Firebat a total of 9 times, and I've played against a Firebat probably 4 or 5. Not once have I had any issues like you claim in your post, and neither have the Firebats I've played against. In fact, they all went +ATK UP, too. Most importantly of all, I have yet to lose a match with this setup and have only had three deaths total.
What it comes down to is that starting the game with +5 mana severly gimps your leveling capability and you'll end up being out leveled by your opponent. On top of that, Firebat simply cannot kill anyone early game because a) his skills are designed to be used in rapid succession, which you don't have the mana pool for and b) without any +ATK UP, your spells do too little damage to kill anyway. Firebat is a tank/support, NOT a nuker.
And most importantly of all, that mana does nothing to help your survivability. In fact, +ATK UP helps your survivability by leveling you quicker. Since Firebat has no defensive abilities, if you would get killed by stacking +ATK UP you would get killed even quicker by stacking +mana since your level would be lower and you can't do enough damage to get a kill anyway.
Will this setup work in the CoT World Championship? Who knows. But it's a guaranteed 100% win rate in public matches, and still better odds than going mana in an inhouse match.
You're welcome to upload some of your matches between yourself and the map devs, though. I'd love to see this +mana opening utilized correctly because the math shows it to be inferior in almost every way to +ATK UP openings.
Hi my friends and I have tried going 3 medic all mana build to trap my pub enemies in forcefields to make them rage and we won the game "will this setup work in the CoT World Championship? Who knows. But it's a guaranteed 100% win rate in public matches, and still better odds than going mana in an inhouse match"
What I'm trying to say is, all you're arguments all seem to be based on you're experiences with what sounds like horrible players ie Hi I kill trucks at lvl 0 and I've never had problems with people in pub games using a nuke to steal the truck that I'm auto attacking in my games, these same people later lose to me 32-0 See where I'm going?
I'm really perplexed why you seem to be so confident in your strategy when it is afaik very unorthodox. Can I ask who you played with that went only attack and if you made sure that that was the case?
Also if you think that someone cannot kill a player at lvl 3 unless the other player is bad is just so horribly wrong. Any hero with a slowing nuke ultimate, mana pot and a decent build that adds mana will kill someone quite easily. Ulti mana pot nuke nuke.
On January 11 2011 13:28 assajocuna wrote: Arcane got nerfed now. We are testing more. Sylon is bottom tier in hero fights. Hades is a little above average.
ah, just observing what I've seen in pubs. Still, the game is poorly balanced.
On January 11 2011 13:28 assajocuna wrote: Arcane got nerfed now. We are testing more. Sylon is bottom tier in hero fights. Hades is a little above average.
ah, just observing what I've seen in pubs. Still, the game is poorly balanced.
Hi first of all this map is played in big tournaments in Korea this shows that there is obviously some amount of balance to the game. Second the mapmaker works very hard on the map to balance and make the game more fun, which he is doing. You're first post was proven completely untrue and so shows that you need a better understanding of the game and or need to be much more skilled to claim imbalance about the game. You're post not only is a empty one that provides nothing to the thread but undermines the effort that the mapmaker and his helpers such as Assajocuna are making in not only creating the map but also in bringing the map to foreigners in the US and EU servers.
Thanks for this great map but I do find one major problem. Some characters, when using a skill, actually deselects your own character. I find this annoying because it makes skill chaining very hard.
That happens when the skill u tried to do was on cool down. When you get used to it, it won't be a problem. I used to have that problem when i started playing the game, but after i played for few days, i never had that problem.
On January 11 2011 16:27 assajocuna wrote: That happens when the skill u tried to do was on cool down. When you get used to it, it won't be a problem. I used to have that problem when i started playing the game, but after i played for few days, i never had that problem.
Oh I see now. Thanks very much, this definitely helps
Arcane got nerfed once more. It should be pretty balanced now. His skills are strong but need more mana to perform now. The slow effect on ulti is shortened. His auto attack range shortened. Ulti cooldown longer. Should be enough now.
Sorry we do not have any more plans for publishing on other servers.
Is there a way to just use one map and publish that same map to EU/US/KR and make the text come out in that client's language automatically? It's taking long time for Max to update every single one of them.
On January 11 2011 06:57 Serejai wrote: Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Firebat is a late game hero. You're not supposed to engage in the early game. Again, wasting five of your stat points on mana which you won't need at all late game (when your hero matters) instead of on health or damage (which you will need) is just a bad choice.
You won't be getting any early game kills if you go mana, and you'll be gimping yourself for the late game. In addition, you drastically slow down your crate/truck farming (which is all any class should be doing until level 3 anyway, as you will out level your lane opponent if they simply farm).
Mana may work for a few champs, but I've played about 80% of them so far and +ATK UP has always been superior on the ones I've used by far. Like... it's very noticeable.
If you`ve watched any of the pro`s play, you notice that the succsessful teams will always pick heroes that are extremely strong early-mid game and are decent late game, the heroes picked also always have very good mobility. Ex. are Blade Master, Zava, Zeros. Why is this? It`s because those heroes are all extremely good farmers with the 5 points into mana and can easily shut down the opponent in the lane. Crate/Truck farming is alot easier with skills then without, if you play against anyone who`s decent at all, they will be checking the open xel naga tower in the lane at every opportunity and if they catch you trying to take a Truck you can sure as hell bet you won`t get it if you have no skills up.
On January 11 2011 18:03 assajocuna wrote: Arcane got nerfed once more. It should be pretty balanced now. His skills are strong but need more mana to perform now. The slow effect on ulti is shortened. His auto attack range shortened. Ulti cooldown longer. Should be enough now.
Sorry we do not have any more plans for publishing on other servers.
Is there a way to just use one map and publish that same map to EU/US/KR and make the text come out in that client's language automatically? It's taking long time for Max to update every single one of them.
most everyone on SEA servers can read/write english (99%, speaking is another matter). afterall SEA version is entirely in english. So usings the EU/US version for SEA would be 100% fine. hope you guys can reconsider. thanks
On January 11 2011 13:28 assajocuna wrote: Arcane got nerfed now. We are testing more. Sylon is bottom tier in hero fights. Hades is a little above average.
ah, just observing what I've seen in pubs. Still, the game is poorly balanced.
LOL you derive your balance opinion from pub games on a server that has had the game for less than a week and then think you can tell the people that have actually brought this game over to NA and EU about balance? PLEASE shut up
is there any problem after the 1.2 patch? I can't check myself since i'm waiting for the Korean version 1.2 to come out (I've been using kr client doing relocalization. so can't connect to na server until tomorrow)
I've heard 1.2 patch screwed up some stuff on some maps. If you see any bug please write it here and we'll get it fixed fast.
Also i heard the chat channel is there on 1.2 so you guys should make 'cityoftempest' channel and play some non pub games.
There seems to be a few bugs in the version released after 1.2 patch. Lurcellant didn't have a level up screen, Blade Hunter lost his z ability, some characters lost their attack animation, and I think there may be a few more. Is this only in the NA version or are players in other servers having the same problem?
Maxstorm is fixing all the stuff 1.2 patch has give him 1.2 patch just screwed up a lot of datas and it's getting fixed right now. Post any more bugs you guys have found~
It'll probably be the same for EU and KR so when you guys see these bugs, don't worry it'll get fixed asap when max updates his version for EU.
On January 12 2011 14:28 assajocuna wrote: Maxstorm is fixing all the stuff 1.2 patch has give him 1.2 patch just screwed up a lot of datas and it's getting fixed right now. Post any more bugs you guys have found~
It'll probably be the same for EU and KR so when you guys see these bugs, don't worry it'll get fixed asap when max updates his version for EU.
Was it intentional that Zeros lost his Z ability? Because without it, Zero will always be behind other characters in level up...also he had no attack animation.
Oh no none of that is intended. It's bug from 1.2 patch. The patch screwed up so many things so we need more report like yours We'll get that thing fixed asap (probably when MaxStorm wake up lol)
I still didn't get the 1.2 patch yet in korea so i'm waiting. How is the channel working?
On January 13 2011 02:35 assajocuna wrote: Oh no none of that is intended. It's bug from 1.2 patch. The patch screwed up so many things so we need more report like yours We'll get that thing fixed asap (probably when MaxStorm wake up lol)
I still didn't get the 1.2 patch yet in korea so i'm waiting. How is the channel working?
channel is working fine, not a lot of people in it but i will change that
Blizzards anti-spam is annoying though, its more like anti-conversation TT
edit:
oh and i would say 'cityoftempest' should be the chat channel, to avoid confusion and make it easy to join (no way to mis-spell it)
Hello. I said to myself this would be the place to post anything related to this map. Anyway, does anyone have any tip on beating Abel? Also, mind adding me to frequent players? It would be real nice :D
The popularity ranking is so weird. I see CT on 1st page and after few hours it's like on 7th page. Anyway we need more people to make a team for better quality games. Come join the chatting channel <cityoftempest> need more players.
On January 13 2011 23:01 assajocuna wrote: The popularity ranking is so weird. I see CT on 1st page and after few hours it's like on 7th page. Anyway we need more people to make a team for better quality games. Come join the chatting channel <cityoftempest> need more players.
Yes, I've experienced the same thing. It appears they try to fix the map system this way, although I don't like it very much.
Currently game feels like, you either pick Abel/Arcane or you're punished by facing players who do. It's not impossible to beat them but it's substantially more difficult.
The two characters just got tested by the best players in korea few hours ago. From the results, Maxstorm nerfed both characters so now they are not over powered.
I've played myself and Arcane is still if played right, should be strong but not top tier character. Abel has gotten a lot weaker in damage output and slow effect on his ulti, so he is more of a support character now.
I've got a few flaws to point out here. Since I'm in NA, there's no such thing as "high-level", and in "low-levels" all I see are genesics, blade hunters, lurs. Maybe you should nerf rampage, knight mode and blade master mode. In high-level it may be useless, but down here newbies give up and leave. You are not going to get any good players like this.
I've been playing this game a lot and it seems many of the heroes are imbalanced. Abel with his ridiculously strong nukes just dominates midgame until lategame when tanks are stronger that they can actually win fights.
On January 17 2011 15:04 Vorix wrote: Is there a channel you guys generally hang out in. I am new and looking for someone to generally teach me basics of the game
Hi there Vorix the channel is written on the first post, it's cityoftempest
New patch coming soon. Within this week i guess. New ice hero will be out, and there will be a lot of buff, nerf coming. Also when lobby is full it'll auto-start. At the beginning of game, everyone has to choose hero within 10 sec and after they all select, the game will start. (newbie friendly, start at the same time)
Character selection screen is now on dialog box like sotis and other hero games.
I can't get on battle.net but it'll be on kor server first and will be translated later.
Questions: Could someone explain Ron to me? Why is he good? I tried him, his auto-attack is the worst, none of his skills seem to have good effects other than continuous damage (I'm unclear whether they keep doing dmg if people move away from the initial spot or not) or do particularly good damage.
What am I missing?
Also, is there any difference between Zava's melee and ranged auto attack?
And on the flip side of Ron, Dwarven King seems soo good, and so easy, just by massing attack stat and mana items and spamming tanks. I've never seen someone not own with him. What makes him not as good?
Guys this is a map that gets balance tested by Korean pros all the time and it's just stupid for people to post here complaining about the supposed imbalance in their pub game. Any hero can dominate in a pub game and the mapmaker is looking at Korean tourney results for balance ideas.
Either your hero completely rape the other guy hero, or his hero completely rape yours
Sometimes you both won't be able to kill each other(too quick + slow abilities, slow dps + run away easily etc etc) and you will get bored and start fighting with low health or stop running away even if you could, out of boredom
Zeroes and janne d'arc easily own ppl that don't move
@Zaproffo: I started CT with Ron and I found that the poison damage was quite good. Farming's no problem with poison ball, which costs 100 (I think?) and is quite effective both in terms of damage and radius and once you get insect king, it couldn't get any easier. I usually go 5~7 mana, then pump all minerals on damage and then get hero kills with manapotions. This usually is enough damage to wipe most heroes. What makes him special though, is his slow, which fixes movement speed at 2.75. When they're slowed, you can literally land all your skills on him while you're able to scurry around, dodging all his spells. This allows him to hardcounter some of the heroes that are considered "strong" like Genesic and Blade Hunter. I'm no pro by any means so my opinion may be flawed, but from what I experienced and read, this seems to be the reason Ron is considered good.
@ABCZerg: Yes that's the reason why Ron is considered strong. He is the melee hero killer. Only character that is good against him as a melee would be LurCellant with the hook. But heroes learning the blink strike ulti can get near you and slow you to death. It depends on the mindgame.
Dwarf King is good but his nuke altogether doesn't do much damage compared to other heroes. In fact i don't think there is any hero that outputs weaker overall damage in nuke. Only when all his tanks are placed, that's when he is strong. Even then, if there is a high hp hero around, he can just go straight in, charge toward Dwarf and kill him in seconds. (ofcourse it's not as easy as it sounds but he is in no way op.) The strongest point dwarf king has is base defense with tanks + scan. You can scan where the enemies are and defend your base well.
PS. I'll translate the patch note when it's done i've tried the ice hero and his nukes are fairly weak but he can be one of the best support hero. Very very annoying to play against.
I can't open the replays the OP posted in first post. Any advice on how to get it to work or can someone else link me to another replay or VOD of some high level play? Thanks.
He has finished updating US server. We are finding some bugs so he's fixing it. I'm not sure if the update is done on EU yet, since he has to do this whole update again for different servers.
Is there any way where he just has to update once for 1 map and distribute that same 1 map to other servers? i hear that if he puts up the same map from US to EU, the parameters break. dunno the reason why.
Been playing recently and the skill level in the game seems much higher than before. Most people know how to play and theres at least one pretty competent person each game.
Theres no viable builds other than going full attack and armour or full attack and health.
If you try to go anything else you just get knocked around because everyone will be stronger than you. I was ber nine with maxed out speed (stimpack, speed stat maxed, movement card, and the +.75 movement speed upgrade) and I couldn't do anything to the dwarven king, because he maxed attack and armour. I used snipe, and it took off maybe 1/5th of his health (btw I had max attack as well, just not max armour). Snipe has a super long cooldown and its the only 1v1 skill ber nine has. I could have gone for the other spec but it would have ended in the same result.
It's still there, down at 2 hours played. I thought that Blizzard had fixed the issues with the custom map popularity system, but apparently not. If you can't get a game, you can come into the chat channel cityoftempest where you might have some more luck.
On January 23 2011 08:08 Chairman Ray wrote: Lurcellent and Zeros are way too good. Is there any way to beat them using another melee hero?
zeros is easy to dodge with a little bit of micro, make him miss his first huge purple shit of doom and you should be ok if your melee hero can do a lot of dps
I have not played lur in a while, or played against any1 good with him, no one pick the pull move, and you can see him glow trough the fog of war so he's easy to ambush once it's on cooldown
I mostly play janne d'arc and zeros
But the patch nerfed a lot of things, janne d'arc arrow and zeros purple doom attack don't seem as strong anymore
Can you add me as a player on the EU Server plz ID: VectorX.762
It would be really cool if we could make a place (IRC / BNetChat) where players can meet for the EU Server or is there another IRC Channel that #cityoftemptest? On the EU Server it is almost impossible to find good games.
I've never played DOTA, or other games (non sc2) that are similar. I've played Storm of the Imperial Sanctum once, but had absolutely no clue what was going on at all. I kept dying and my team mates just kept telling me to quit, so I thought that was lame. How similar is CT to Dota, LOL, HON, Demi God, etc???
Im loving this game, very new to it, but its really cool.
I was wondering if there is a way to bring three people into a pub game? Right now we are in a party of 2 and then the 3rd person joins off their profile when they enter. I realize 3 v Pub isnt quite fair but we are all just learning, being able to all join at once would be nice.
Also, what is the purpose of the Gate Control building and why are the security guards invincible at the start? I don't see it possible to really even kill one of those guards until the mid levels, so why are they locked at the start? And I also found you can kill 2 guards on the enemy side and go around to the xel naga tower on the bridge in the water, and from there you can kill the scientists and gate controls with a ranged character, but I cannot figure out what that changes, anyone know?
Also on Armor vs Health, is one better than the other in different situations? Im not sure exactly what to go build order wise. I usually play with the reaper and am now trying to learn zeros
Gate control building is just for high exp. No you cannot join 3 party pub game. (battle.net problem) The scientists are all exp. Some character can actually go to that place early on (enemy healing place and kill scientists and other nps) and lvl up fast.
Health is good on heros that have high health status (you can see status during character selection or when u put your mouse cursor on wireframe hero image at the bottom center screen)
Magician heros with low health status can benefit more with armors. Some heros have armor + skills so u can stack more armor for efficiency.
PS. Anyone know any place to upload replay pack? i want to upload a korean tournament replay pack but dunno where to upload for free.
It's fun but.... I dunno, it feels like it's excessively flashy for the sake of being flashy. Heroes don't feel very different, fights take a matter of seconds, and the balance is.... questionable. I can see why it's popular, but I can't imagine playing it a lot. Think I enjoyed SOTIS more than this overall, though it has many of the same problems.
The balance is actually not that bad. Throughout my hundred of games, I've seen people that could use all the chars well enough to win a 1vs3. You might think that the balance is bad because most people on NA use easy heros such as Arcane, Abel, Genesic Hunter, Zeros, Chimera, Phantom Gazette and Force Fire. They are all quite easy to use, but if you micro is good you can counter them.
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A few things I would like to ask. Is maxing Health, maxing Def or going both better for Zava? How do you kill Phantom Gazette with a character that can't slow? Can anyone explain to me how does Kaiser Tempest work?
Ive played around 20 matches, so I'm by no means an expert, but I find the balance of this game to pretty god damn annoying. The easy to use heros feel too easy, to the point where it takes so much more skill to beat them then it does to actually play the them. I find myself ragequitting after a few matches when I completely crushed by something I have no idea how to counter.
one time I got beaten by lvl10 warrior when I was lvl20 mage. I could kill him a couple of times, but it was still insane difference with their power (if he reached lvl20 I couldnt do a shit to him)
Guys the balance in this game is GOOD. This game actually requires quite a lot of skill to play properly. If you are losing you got outplayed. Please stop the balance whine posts
On January 29 2011 12:35 Adsee wrote: Ive played around 20 matches, so I'm by no means an expert, but I find the balance of this game to pretty god damn annoying. The easy to use heros feel too easy, to the point where it takes so much more skill to beat them then it does to actually play the them. I find myself ragequitting after a few matches when I completely crushed by something I have no idea how to counter.
CITY OF TEMPEST If you want, you could PM me who you need to know how to kill (the hero's name) I might be able to help you
Arcane - This dude is slow and does not have a lot of HP. Pick someone with high DPS (Sylon) and just nuke him. Other fast characters could also easily kill him. You might notice that he has 1 useless single target skill, so use that to your advantage. Pick an agile char to avoid his high DPS AOEs.
Abel - This motherf*****r is annoying, but just like Arcane, most of his spells are AOE. Just avoid them with an agile char. His HP is not that high so you could just nuke him when you're pretty sure his mana pool is low
Phantom Gazette - Don't try to outrun this guy, you can't, not possible. Use a character that has a slow spell and nuke him. He has very low HP.
Drago - Make sure you find a way to destroy his towers. Since he has high HP, you need someone with a decent DPS. He is not that fast so you could just cast an AOE a little bit in front of him while he's moving and you'll probably catch him. Slow spells are really useful against him, as he has no way to escape them. Be careful not to get hit by his ult.
Hades - Destroy his dark tower early game and he'll probably suck late game :D (Really easy to destroy, you just fire a few spells and that's it)
Genesic Hunter (rampage), Lur Cellant (knight mode), Blade Master (Blade Master Mode) - Just run around a cliff till the mode expires Genesic Rampage - Trap him with skills such as Firewall (Guard Fire) and place turrets in a circle around him.
Dwarven King - Kill his tanks.
Berr. Nine (cloak) - It is quite easy, the moment she attacks you you attack her. If she cloaks you can use skills with huge AOE to find her.
Zeros - Avoid. His. Attack. It's actually quite easy, you should be able to see it coming from miles away.
That's based on my own game experience with Lur Cellant, Zava and Guard Fire.
TIPS -
- Don't attack heroes @ early game, chances are you won't kill them. You'll slow yourself down more than you slow them down. - Kill 1 Experience Capsule before going to kill creeps at early game. - Spread your creeps around by walking into them ; most heroes have splash. - Don't be cheap. Don't use modes when using Genesic Hunter, Lur Cellant and Blade Master. They're quite easy to counter. - Stay near a Xel'Naga tower whenever possible. - If your hero can set up towers, do it. (Megagun Zord, Berr. Nine, Guard Fire, Force Fire, Phantom Gazette, Dwarven King, Drago, Hades, etc.) STATS BUILD ORDER (That's what I do)
High Health - (Drago)
Mana Mana Mana Mana Mana (every abilities and ability upgrades) Max Attack Max Speed Health till level 25
Low Health - (Zava)
Mana Mana Mana Mana Mana (every abilities and ability upgrades) Max Attack Max Speed Armor till level 25
Items (What I buy) -
Mana Regen Mana Regen Mana Regen Shield Mana Regen Mana Regen Shield Shield Shield Shield Mana Shield Regen Mana Shield Regen Mana Shield Regen Mana Shield Regen Mana Shield Regen
If you have like 10K gas left at the end of the game and you've bought all upgrades, don't buy cards (Only buy the stat point and random card). Buy HUNTER BOTS :DD
On January 29 2011 16:20 justjuice wrote: Guys the balance in this game is GOOD. This game actually requires quite a lot of skill to play properly. If you are losing you got outplayed. Please stop the balance whine posts
I love your reasoning.
I just cant see how the clif walker dragon or teleporting hyber beam guy could be balanced. They both deal extremely high amount of damage and can escape/move around super easilly = more exp, better ganging abilities etch.....
And btw when I play I will most likely get 20-2 or something like that and I always pick random, so against random bnet person I would say it doesnt require any skill at all to win...
and btw, I think the games last too long. Usually there are atleast 1 leaver and that makes it even harder to kill the towers. And most of the games people dont understand to upgrade attack so you have to pretty much kill everything youtself if you want to win.
I just ran into Force Fire spamming 200 damage, zero cooldown turrets that are invincible. Yea, that's fucking smart.
So dumb. There's nothing you can do about that it seems because the turrets are invincible. You can't retreat either since the turrets have zero cooldown, instant cast. Just retarded. Another example of just bad design present in this custom.
That's actually really easy to counter. He can only set up turrets at short range, meaning you only have to slow him down and nuke him before he gets within a 3-range radius of you (estimated). His ult sucks a bit for that reason. Watch out for headbutt tho. You need to see it coming
On January 30 2011 12:18 pride2518 wrote: That's actually really easy to counter. He can only set up turrets at short range, meaning you only have to slow him down and nuke him before he gets within a 3-range radius of you (estimated). His ult sucks a bit for that reason. Watch out for headbutt tho. You need to see it coming
Guard Fire is much worse I tell you.
sucks when you're a melee hero though i saw no counter to it as Zeros and I was the only one left on my team.
dont take dark true strike, take the other ability whose name i forgot. it teleports you to a target point :D just like blink. plus if u aim it right u might hit him.
On January 30 2011 21:12 pride2518 wrote: dont take dark true strike, take the other ability whose name i forgot. it teleports you to a target point :D just like blink. plus if u aim it right u might hit him.
So you can teleport in his turrets? or away and be useless?
The game has an awful 1vs1 balance, most of the heroes match up are a one sided rape or stalemate
It's rare to have a micro dodge fest, it will only happen in few match up
Sure the game is kinda balanced, but most of the match ups are not fun, you can't beat every heroes with any heroes
I'd pick Zava (aka Infested Kerrigan aka Queen of Blades aka ef'fing Kerrigan) and just blink away from it, then I'd use hotkeys (need micro for this) B V C to kill the spammer from a certain range. All this has to be done in very rapid succession.
Fun game, however the balance is pretty terrible. Arcane and the genetic or w/e zealot are vastly superior to most of the other heroes, and several others are as well.
On January 31 2011 10:33 Grantler wrote: Fun game, however the balance is pretty terrible. Arcane and the genetic or w/e zealot are vastly superior to most of the other heroes, and several others are as well.
Play them enough times and eventually you'll get used to them and will be able to counter them. I kill a Genesic Hunter with either a unit that can set up towers (chances are they will feel invincible and won't run from them) or with another Genesic Hunter with whom I pick Genesic Crusher instead. I'll kill them before they kill me with it.
On January 31 2011 04:34 0mar wrote: seriously, how the heck do you beat tower spam? It has zero cooldown and negligible mana cost.
try Drago
that's dumb. so there's no way to beat it if you don't have the right character? might as well play rock, paper, scissors before the game starts and cut out all the pretentious bullshit.
On January 31 2011 13:19 Grantler wrote: Just use Arcane, he kills everything instantly
well, a 5.5 or 6 speed character can run right up to you, put down 10 invincible turrets in a 1/3rd of a second while firing off a couple skills and kill you right there. Yea, Arcane rocks, but it's tough as balls leading a 6 speed phantom gazette and if you don't hit, you die. You can't retreat fast enough and you can't kill his turrets which do 70 damage at .86 attack speed. It's like 800 damage a second, plus what the character can also do. It's extremely frustrating to play against.
On January 31 2011 04:34 0mar wrote: seriously, how the heck do you beat tower spam? It has zero cooldown and negligible mana cost.
try Drago
that's dumb. so there's no way to beat it if you don't have the right character? might as well play rock, paper, scissors before the game starts and cut out all the pretentious bullshit.
Yes and no
Yes there's so much your character can do and there are some heroes that can't kill other heroes
but you shouldn't die to them if you are good, causing stalemate(most of your match up if you are good should be stalemate and only die/kill by ambushing ppl)
Yes the hero matters, but you should still be able to win easily with any hero, but killing the towers and giant marauders gets boring after a while
It's IMPOSSIBLE to get a 3vs3 in this game, if someone doesn't drop at the loading, the first guy who dies will leave
Meh those balance problems are indeed a but too much, but the players aren't balanced either. I (having played only about 30 matches or so) easily won a 1v3 against an arcane, sylos and genesic with a randomed character. as long as you have noobs against you who rely on op heroes you should be fine.
in other news:
I got this idea for a new hero, how can i suggest it to the korean guy who made it?
Name: Tv'in (i suck @ names) Appearance: 2 Mogloo marines
instead of 1 hero, these are 2 slightly less powerful heroes with individual and cooperative skills
Ranged attack, range 7.
A:3 M:4 S:4 H:1
Skill 0: 50 energy: Berserk Skill 1: 50 energy: Support (the closer the twins are the higher speed/damage increase) Skill 2: 75 energy: Line splash laser (like arcane's standard attaack but laser-ish) Skill 3: 150 energy: Target explosion (select enemy, explosion generated outwards) Skill 4: 250 energy: Area slow + medium damage (slow power: -0.2 movement per 0.1 sec (can be upgraded to -0.3)) Ultimate skill: 400 energy: "Twin connection"
a powerful laser is created between the two twins, burning everything in between (max range between twins = 20), then it splits out for a diamond shaped AoE.
Extra skill: Split (200 energy): devide each of the twins into yet another twin, meaning 4 heroes for 20 seconds (30 second cooldown). when combined with Twin connection, all possible laser connections are made, but each connection deals only a half damage and has half the range, for a total of 3 times more damage spread over a much larger area (and 1.5 more energy used)
i obviously intend it to be balanced, compared with the increased micro needed. tell me what you think
On January 31 2011 04:34 0mar wrote: seriously, how the heck do you beat tower spam? It has zero cooldown and negligible mana cost.
try Drago
that's dumb. so there's no way to beat it if you don't have the right character? might as well play rock, paper, scissors before the game starts and cut out all the pretentious bullshit.
Yes and no
Yes there's so much your character can do and there are some heroes that can't kill other heroes
but you shouldn't die to them if you are good, causing stalemate(most of your match up if you are good should be stalemate and only die/kill by ambushing ppl)
Yes the hero matters, but you should still be able to win easily with any hero, but killing the towers and giant marauders gets boring after a while
It's IMPOSSIBLE to get a 3vs3 in this game, if someone doesn't drop at the loading, the first guy who dies will leave
yea I figured it'd be a stalemate because I can decide when to confront.
I guess this game needs a team to be truly appreciated. Also, Krizard being bugged right now is super gay.
On February 01 2011 02:17 SubjectSeven wrote: Meh those balance problems are indeed a but too much, but the players aren't balanced either. I (having played only about 30 matches or so) easily won a 1v3 against an arcane, sylos and genesic with a randomed character. as long as you have noobs against you who rely on op heroes you should be fine.
in other news:
I got this idea for a new hero, how can i suggest it to the korean guy who made it?
Name: Tv'in (i suck @ names) Appearance: 2 Mogloo marines
instead of 1 hero, these are 2 slightly less powerful heroes with individual and cooperative skills
Ranged attack, range 7.
A:3 M:4 S:4 H:1
Skill 0: 50 energy: Berserk Skill 1: 50 energy: Support (the closer the twins are the higher speed/damage increase) Skill 2: 75 energy: Line splash laser (like arcane's standard attaack but laser-ish) Skill 3: 150 energy: Target explosion (select enemy, explosion generated outwards) Skill 4: 250 energy: Area slow + medium damage (slow power: -0.2 movement per 0.1 sec (can be upgraded to -0.3)) Ultimate skill: 400 energy: "Twin connection"
a powerful laser is created between the two twins, burning everything in between (max range between twins = 20), then it splits out for a diamond shaped AoE.
Extra skill: Split (200 energy): devide each of the twins into yet another twin, meaning 4 heroes for 20 seconds (30 second cooldown). when combined with Twin connection, all possible laser connections are made, but each connection deals only a half damage and has half the range, for a total of 3 times more damage spread over a much larger area (and 1.5 more energy used)
i obviously intend it to be balanced, compared with the increased micro needed. tell me what you think
Not a good idea, pro with micro would too easily win the game. Beside, I think this hero takes too much triggers to get it working properly. It would be underpowered if 1 twin dies, the other does too coz of it's low health but Op if both twins have to die to score a kill.
On January 31 2011 04:34 0mar wrote: seriously, how the heck do you beat tower spam? It has zero cooldown and negligible mana cost.
try Drago
that's dumb. so there's no way to beat it if you don't have the right character? might as well play rock, paper, scissors before the game starts and cut out all the pretentious bullshit.
...Choya?
There's a handfull of times that I've said that same thing about various other things. Abel slows and kills me.... How do you beat that? Hades pops a dark tower and then pulls me backwards... wtf? How do you beat that? Etc... Usually it turns out I've been out played. You just have to avoid it. Don't get to close to them. Hold a Xel naga and stay clear if they get to the point where they can gun you down instantly.
On January 31 2011 04:34 0mar wrote: seriously, how the heck do you beat tower spam? It has zero cooldown and negligible mana cost.
try Drago
that's dumb. so there's no way to beat it if you don't have the right character? might as well play rock, paper, scissors before the game starts and cut out all the pretentious bullshit.
...Choya?
There's a handfull of times that I've said that same thing about various other things. Abel slows and kills me.... How do you beat that? Hades pops a dark tower and then pulls me backwards... wtf? How do you beat that? Etc... Usually it turns out I've been out played. You just have to avoid it. Don't get to close to them. Hold a Xel naga and stay clear if they get to the point where they can gun you down instantly.
Well, Abel you can pop a health pot, stim and run out of the slow since it's channeled. Hades is all about the dark tower, so that's priority #1. There is still some BS involved if you get quick-ganked, but it comes down to skill. With tower spam, it's a stalemate. I knew that as soon as I saw the strategy with Lur Cellant/Zeros. There's no way he can kill me without me engaging him first, but at the same time, I can't kill him because of the tower spam.
Notice how it's mostly a bunch of NA guys crying about the balance? Maybe you should watch some high level games or practice to improve. It's all about the skill of the people you're playing vs your own micro skill. The balance is fine and the heroes are considered to mostly balanced in Korea. There's only a handful of people out there the say anything about a hero being imbalanced and it was mostly Lurcellant, who eventually was nerfed. You should probably just stop playing if you hate the balance of the game.
If you work on your own skills and micro, you might be a much better player. Just be hyper aggressive with your leveling and if you can't take a harass from someone in your lane, switch with a teammate until you can handle that enemy better at later levels. Everything can be countered, period. It's all about timing and vision. If you're not near xel naga towers, you're asking to get ambushed.
On a side note, I'm forming a clan for CT soon if anyone wants to join, you message me to try out or to learn how to improve via Nameless.568
I'd really like to see less crying about this game and more people forming up strong clans for tournaments.
On February 01 2011 20:50 vulture7 wrote: Hi, I went to the naver cafe but I couldn't read anything on its forums. Do you have to register to the cafe or something?
You can use Google Toolbar to translate about 50% of it but some of the forum threads on there require you to sign up and it looks like you need a Korean SSN to register. Unfortunately I don't have a KSSN and the fine for using someone else's KSSN is like 10 million won or nearly $9,000.
On February 01 2011 20:50 vulture7 wrote: Hi, I went to the naver cafe but I couldn't read anything on its forums. Do you have to register to the cafe or something?
You can use Google Toolbar to translate about 50% of it but some of the forum threads on there require you to sign up and it looks like you need a Korean SSN to register. Unfortunately I don't have a KSSN and the fine for using someone else's KSSN is like 10 million won or nearly $9,000.
you have to enter a phone # and then comfirm with the code they send you by SMS
i registered but i really dont know why i did it, wasnt worth it
On February 01 2011 02:17 SubjectSeven wrote: Meh those balance problems are indeed a but too much, but the players aren't balanced either. I (having played only about 30 matches or so) easily won a 1v3 against an arcane, sylos and genesic with a randomed character. as long as you have noobs against you who rely on op heroes you should be fine.
in other news:
I got this idea for a new hero, how can i suggest it to the korean guy who made it?
Name: Tv'in (i suck @ names) Appearance: 2 Mogloo marines
instead of 1 hero, these are 2 slightly less powerful heroes with individual and cooperative skills
Ranged attack, range 7.
A:3 M:4 S:4 H:1
Skill 0: 50 energy: Berserk Skill 1: 50 energy: Support (the closer the twins are the higher speed/damage increase) Skill 2: 75 energy: Line splash laser (like arcane's standard attack but laser-ish) Skill 3: 150 energy: Target explosion (select enemy, explosion generated outwards) Skill 4: 250 energy: Area slow + medium damage (slow power: -0.2 movement per 0.1 sec (can be upgraded to -0.3)) Ultimate skill: 400 energy: "Twin connection"
a powerful laser is created between the two twins, burning everything in between (max range between twins = 20), then it splits out for a diamond shaped AoE.
Extra skill: Split (200 energy): devide each of the twins into yet another twin, meaning 4 heroes for 20 seconds (30 second cooldown). when combined with Twin connection, all possible laser connections are made, but each connection deals only a half damage and has half the range, for a total of 3 times more damage spread over a much larger area (and 1.5 more energy used)
i obviously intend it to be balanced, compared with the increased micro needed. tell me what you think
Not a good idea, pro with micro would too easily win the game. Beside, I think this hero takes too much triggers to get it working properly. It would be underpowered if 1 twin dies, the other does too coz of it's low health but Op if both twins have to die to score a kill.
pro with micro wins the game anyway, the game is entirely about micro.
triggers are a good point, though koreans can do anything.
and there are 2 twins that don't necessarily have to be together, but the max they can be apart (because of the brotherly bond!) would be 20 (or maybe a bit less, like 16). they have to be apart for their ultimate skill to work for example, that's a reason why i'm not sure about the support skill.
It wouldn't be OP, you just need intel. stand near a xel' naga tower and scan the area, you'll most likely see them both, and you can take out the back one and wait for the other. also, over + underpowered = sort of balanced. if a char is op but you can easily kill one part making it underpowered, that would be like you can do huge AOE like Arcane, but be killed damn easily. and Arcane is easy to beat if you use the right tactics.
i think it would just be innovative
but i doubt if I can even reach MaxStorm, i'm not korean.
---
BTW i play pretty frequently on the EU server: SubjectSeven.532 (i'm not an expert, but i just like the game )
On a side note, I've learned a few great tactics from a guy who saw my post and faced my clan. We got roflstomped but he was using Charge-cancels with the charge heros both offensively and defensively.
This is a great tactic for anyone who's getting advanced in their play with melee such as Genesic and Lurcellant.
By the way, I'm still holding tryouts for Clan Law if anyone wants to join up to start tournaments and private 3v3 matches. You don't necesarily have to be good but you've gotta be willing to learn.
On February 02 2011 20:21 NamelessZero wrote: I really want the 3 person group bug to be fixed. You can't join with 3 people in a party. Only 2. So you have to do private games or create.
Is there anything that can be done about the deselection of your character if you're spamming your moves and happen to be a fraction too fast?
On a side note, I've learned a few great tactics from a guy who saw my post and faced my clan. We got roflstomped but he was using Charge-cancels with the charge heros both offensively and defensively.
This is a great tactic for anyone who's getting advanced in their play with melee such as Genesic and Lurcellant.
By the way, I'm still holding tryouts for Clan Law if anyone wants to join up to start tournaments and private 3v3 matches. You don't necesarily have to be good but you've gotta be willing to learn.
Uh... yeah dude, everyone control groups their hero. That's nothing special. It's just a pain when you're in an intensive micro battle to have to hit an extra button. In CoT, every fraction of a second counts.
On February 03 2011 01:37 bobbeh wrote: Oh I see, you tell others to learn to play but don't want to learn to play yourself
My bad don't mind me then
Assa can you recommend some clan or match to watch?? thats a lot of replays lol
Dude, when it comes down to something like "control group your hero", you're talking pretty basic functions. Has nothing to do with not wanting to learn, simply that pretty much anyone that doesn't control group is likely to suffer for it. It's common knowledge, it's not a good tip.
On February 01 2011 20:52 NamelessZero wrote: Notice how it's mostly a bunch of NA guys crying about the balance? Maybe you should watch some high level games or practice to improve. It's all about the skill of the people you're playing vs your own micro skill. The balance is fine and the heroes are considered to mostly balanced in Korea. There's only a handful of people out there the say anything about a hero being imbalanced and it was mostly Lurcellant, who eventually was nerfed. You should probably just stop playing if you hate the balance of the game.
If you work on your own skills and micro, you might be a much better player. Just be hyper aggressive with your leveling and if you can't take a harass from someone in your lane, switch with a teammate until you can handle that enemy better at later levels. Everything can be countered, period. It's all about timing and vision. If you're not near xel naga towers, you're asking to get ambushed.
On a side note, I'm forming a clan for CT soon if anyone wants to join, you message me to try out or to learn how to improve via Nameless.568
I'd really like to see less crying about this game and more people forming up strong clans for tournaments.
I bet if you could read Korean, many of the same balance concerns would pop up
I've play this game probably at least a hundred times, and while I find most of the heroes pretty balanced, I just cannot deal with a semi-decent Genesic Hunter. In his rampage mode, his dps is so deadly while spamming his two other skills that any hero dies within 1-3 seconds. I've seen a few posts saying to simply run away or use skills that can bind/trap him, and that's good and all, but no actual player would simply run around spamming that mode all the time for people to see his glow through the fog. They would simply go around watch towers and looking at the mini map, and when a person is in charge distance, they'll activate rampage, charge and it's impossible to dodge or run as the interceptors keep doing damage as well as his skill that stuns, preventing any escape.
The problem as I see it is that the interceptors do way too much damage. When most, if not all heroes use a spell, there's a slight delay where they do not do their normal attack. However, to compare, as the Zealot is not only spamming pretty damaging skills, his interceptors are doing continual insane damage. No matter what hero I play, I just cannot do a 1 v 1 against him without getting slaughtered. I would think Ron may be decent against him by using the move that sets speed to 2.75, but that's only if he engages first so that he could be able to use that move.
On February 04 2011 15:21 Kontossis wrote: I've play this game probably at least a hundred times, and while I find most of the heroes pretty balanced, I just cannot deal with a semi-decent Genesic Hunter. In his rampage mode, his dps is so deadly while spamming his two other skills that any hero dies within 1-3 seconds. I've seen a few posts saying to simply run away or use skills that can bind/trap him, and that's good and all, but no actual player would simply run around spamming that mode all the time for people to see his glow through the fog. They would simply go around watch towers and looking at the mini map, and when a person is in charge distance, they'll activate rampage, charge and it's impossible to dodge or run as the interceptors keep doing damage as well as his skill that stuns, preventing any escape.
The problem as I see it is that the interceptors do way too much damage. When most, if not all heroes use a spell, there's a slight delay where they do not do their normal attack. However, to compare, as the Zealot is not only spamming pretty damaging skills, his interceptors are doing continual insane damage. No matter what hero I play, I just cannot do a 1 v 1 against him without getting slaughtered. I would think Ron may be decent against him by using the move that sets speed to 2.75, but that's only if he engages first so that he could be able to use that move.
Avoid him until Rampage mode drops and then destroy his now mediocre hero. The thing about pretty much all modes is that they only have like a 60% uptime and once they drop, the heroes really aren't as powerful. They're sacrificing some really great ultimates for a 30 second buff and once it's gone, they're incredibly vulnerable. You'll see people using Lurcellant or Genesic with modes all the time in pub games and you can usually trash them once it wears off. It's the guys who use the hook or particle explosion ultimates that you really have to watch out for. I'm sure you already know but you can tell where they are when they're in a mode so it's easy to avoid.
The worst thing you can have happen to you is they gain map control for a bit only for creeping. Most of the time they won't be silly enough to attack you into your own base at lower levels before hitting buildings. And if they're trying to kill your buildings, snipe them with some nukes. The more time you keep them active doing things against their purpose for popping the mode, the better.
Don't feel bad about not being able to kill someone in a mode like Rampage Mode. I rarely face someone 1v1 head on and try to win with brute force; especially when it's someone like Genesic. I'll abuse terrain like mad, slow him down, blink around, etc. Genesic is almost purely melee outside of his archons. With a blink hero, while his mode is on cooldown, you can easily crush him. Even if he charges up to you and closes the distance, you can always blink back from him and repeat your slow/nuke process and then begin blinking towards him as he start to run. You just gotta control the distance.
Or you can pick megagun zord, use your own version of speedy rampage mode (I think the max damage is 305 with a fire rate of (with stimpack) 0.29 secs) and set up towers.
New bug found: I'm not sure how many others have noticed this but my friend was going to Berr Nine but each time he tried to go for Cloak/Snipe, he would not receive the ability. I don't know what was causing the issue. All I can tell you is that each time I was playing Janne De Arc and got my ultimate before he did and it seemed if that trend was followed, he couldn't get cloak/snipe or any ultimate.
On February 04 2011 15:21 Kontossis wrote: I've play this game probably at least a hundred times, and while I find most of the heroes pretty balanced, I just cannot deal with a semi-decent Genesic Hunter. In his rampage mode, his dps is so deadly while spamming his two other skills that any hero dies within 1-3 seconds. I've seen a few posts saying to simply run away or use skills that can bind/trap him, and that's good and all, but no actual player would simply run around spamming that mode all the time for people to see his glow through the fog. They would simply go around watch towers and looking at the mini map, and when a person is in charge distance, they'll activate rampage, charge and it's impossible to dodge or run as the interceptors keep doing damage as well as his skill that stuns, preventing any escape.
The problem as I see it is that the interceptors do way too much damage. When most, if not all heroes use a spell, there's a slight delay where they do not do their normal attack. However, to compare, as the Zealot is not only spamming pretty damaging skills, his interceptors are doing continual insane damage. No matter what hero I play, I just cannot do a 1 v 1 against him without getting slaughtered. I would think Ron may be decent against him by using the move that sets speed to 2.75, but that's only if he engages first so that he could be able to use that move.
Avoid him until Rampage mode drops and then destroy his now mediocre hero. The thing about pretty much all modes is that they only have like a 60% uptime and once they drop, the heroes really aren't as powerful. They're sacrificing some really great ultimates for a 30 second buff and once it's gone, they're incredibly vulnerable. You'll see people using Lurcellant or Genesic with modes all the time in pub games and you can usually trash them once it wears off. It's the guys who use the hook or particle explosion ultimates that you really have to watch out for. I'm sure you already know but you can tell where they are when they're in a mode so it's easy to avoid.
The worst thing you can have happen to you is they gain map control for a bit only for creeping. Most of the time they won't be silly enough to attack you into your own base at lower levels before hitting buildings. And if they're trying to kill your buildings, snipe them with some nukes. The more time you keep them active doing things against their purpose for popping the mode, the better.
Don't feel bad about not being able to kill someone in a mode like Rampage Mode. I rarely face someone 1v1 head on and try to win with brute force; especially when it's someone like Genesic. I'll abuse terrain like mad, slow him down, blink around, etc. Genesic is almost purely melee outside of his archons. With a blink hero, while his mode is on cooldown, you can easily crush him. Even if he charges up to you and closes the distance, you can always blink back from him and repeat your slow/nuke process and then begin blinking towards him as he start to run. You just gotta control the distance.
Yeah my bad. What I meant by avoiding him is go elsewhere on the map, not stay outside of melee range. See if you can catch him on the cooldown. The best Genesic rampager I ever played against happened to be good luck for me because I rolled Janne De'Arc. Once he popped Rampage mode, I'd evade as long as I could just out of his ability to get to me and when he finally closed the distance, I'd drop a forcefield on him and slap some good damage on him or avoid him a little longer. Once his Rampage dropped, I'd pursue him, striking him all the way back to his base resulting in downtime for him to heal or a kill.
Really, this game isn't so much about what hero is imba or what counters what as much as it is about how you execute that hero in the match you're placed with. Also, if you can coordinate attacks, it really doesn't matter what class someone is playing if you have two or three good heroes on someone.
Edit: Made sure I re-phrased that to say the best Genesic player that actually used a mode.
On February 04 2011 15:21 Kontossis wrote: I've play this game probably at least a hundred times, and while I find most of the heroes pretty balanced, I just cannot deal with a semi-decent Genesic Hunter. In his rampage mode, his dps is so deadly while spamming his two other skills that any hero dies within 1-3 seconds. I've seen a few posts saying to simply run away or use skills that can bind/trap him, and that's good and all, but no actual player would simply run around spamming that mode all the time for people to see his glow through the fog. They would simply go around watch towers and looking at the mini map, and when a person is in charge distance, they'll activate rampage, charge and it's impossible to dodge or run as the interceptors keep doing damage as well as his skill that stuns, preventing any escape.
The problem as I see it is that the interceptors do way too much damage. When most, if not all heroes use a spell, there's a slight delay where they do not do their normal attack. However, to compare, as the Zealot is not only spamming pretty damaging skills, his interceptors are doing continual insane damage. No matter what hero I play, I just cannot do a 1 v 1 against him without getting slaughtered. I would think Ron may be decent against him by using the move that sets speed to 2.75, but that's only if he engages first so that he could be able to use that move.
Avoid him until Rampage mode drops and then destroy his now mediocre hero. The thing about pretty much all modes is that they only have like a 60% uptime and once they drop, the heroes really aren't as powerful. They're sacrificing some really great ultimates for a 30 second buff and once it's gone, they're incredibly vulnerable. You'll see people using Lurcellant or Genesic with modes all the time in pub games and you can usually trash them once it wears off. It's the guys who use the hook or particle explosion ultimates that you really have to watch out for. I'm sure you already know but you can tell where they are when they're in a mode so it's easy to avoid.
The worst thing you can have happen to you is they gain map control for a bit only for creeping. Most of the time they won't be silly enough to attack you into your own base at lower levels before hitting buildings. And if they're trying to kill your buildings, snipe them with some nukes. The more time you keep them active doing things against their purpose for popping the mode, the better.
Don't feel bad about not being able to kill someone in a mode like Rampage Mode. I rarely face someone 1v1 head on and try to win with brute force; especially when it's someone like Genesic. I'll abuse terrain like mad, slow him down, blink around, etc. Genesic is almost purely melee outside of his archons. With a blink hero, while his mode is on cooldown, you can easily crush him. Even if he charges up to you and closes the distance, you can always blink back from him and repeat your slow/nuke process and then begin blinking towards him as he start to run. You just gotta control the distance.
The problem here is that the Genesic fires his 'minions' from a distance, those minions can walk cliffs, his movement speed increases by 30%, when combined with the still active charge probably only ZeDait could outrun him, etc. Lots of heroes can't run from that for 20 seconds. it would already be better if his minions couldn't cliffwalk, or preferably if charge is disabled in that mode, since he's already tripping on steroids, how would he pull off an extra charge anyway?
In my opinion, GeneSic is OP, at least in most games, because not every game has a pro that can outmicro him, but every game has noobs which can just activate the mode attack and sit back. this means there has to be an unbalanced amount of skill for an even game, which means it's OP.
1. Genesic (its impossible to outrun, easy to use) 2. Abel (sick damamge, sick range, teleport) extremely easy to play and hard to avoid 3. Clif walking dragon (extremely hard to kill, does massive damage) and again easy to play
there are probly others too. Either these require nerfing or the bad heroes require buffing. I would say those 3 are probly on the same level so they are not so imba against each other, but against weaker heroes its just bullshit.
On February 06 2011 22:12 burne- wrote: Most imba heroes:
1. Genesic (its impossible to outrun, easy to use) 2. Abel (sick damamge, sick range, teleport) extremely easy to play and hard to avoid 3. Clif walking dragon (extremely hard to kill, does massive damage) and again easy to play
there are probly others too. Either these require nerfing or the bad heroes require buffing. I would say those 3 are probly on the same level so they are not so imba against each other, but against weaker heroes its just bullshit.
Altho im usually able to counter rampage, Genesic is a bit imba i gotta admit, its way too easy to use.
as for abel and black wyvern, their easy to kill as shit (try lur cellant nightmare hook)
The problem here is that the Genesic fires his 'minions' from a distance, those minions can walk cliffs, his movement speed increases by 30%, when combined with the still active charge probably only ZeDait could outrun him, etc. Lots of heroes can't run from that for 20 seconds. it would already be better if his minions couldn't cliffwalk, or preferably if charge is disabled in that mode, since he's already tripping on steroids, how would he pull off an extra charge anyway?
In my opinion, GeneSic is OP, at least in most games, because not every game has a pro that can outmicro him, but every game has noobs which can just activate the mode attack and sit back. this means there has to be an unbalanced amount of skill for an even game, which means it's OP.
So you can't just invest gas into a teleport? You can't use tactics like slows from a distance as you see him coming because you were controlling the xel naga towers and pre-emptively start backing towards your base? Or set up a trap for him like Berr Nine's mines stacked like mad near the path to you? Point out with a ping that he's coming and have a teammate gank him with you?
I know my Janne De'Arc strategy to deal with him was very hero specific but almost everyone has a way to avoid getting torn up by Genesic. Not all heroes have a way of directly dealing with him but everyone has a way of dealing with him whether it's just being very watchful or using micro or double-teaming. Wasn't that always the best way to deal with someone in any type of PvP where someone was a major threat? Pretty much always the way I saw it anyway; team up to eliminate a high priority target.
Not every game has a pro but every game has three heroes on a team that can overpower a single hero if they all attack in an ambush. Dying to a player that chose a mode over another ultimate is usually your own fault, not the fault of the game being imbalanced.
Not that my personal opinion counts for much but I tend to find every single hero in the game is great when used properly. Expand on your strengths and avoid your weaknesses. Use teamwork and don't ever pick Ron. (Just kidding about the Ron part, but he happens to be my worst hero. =P)
On February 06 2011 22:12 burne- wrote: Most imba heroes:
1. Genesic (its impossible to outrun, easy to use) 2. Abel (sick damamge, sick range, teleport) extremely easy to play and hard to avoid 3. Clif walking dragon (extremely hard to kill, does massive damage) and again easy to play
there are probly others too. Either these require nerfing or the bad heroes require buffing. I would say those 3 are probly on the same level so they are not so imba against each other, but against weaker heroes its just bullshit.
Altho im usually able to counter rampage, Genesic is a bit imba i gotta admit, its way too easy to use.
as for abel and black wyvern, their easy to kill as shit (try lur cellant nightmare hook)
Dont get me wrong. Its just from my experience that those heroes are way more powerful than others. Its almost impossible to lose in public game no matter what heroes your play. Some just feel so much stronger than others.
On February 06 2011 22:12 burne- wrote: Most imba heroes:
1. Genesic (its impossible to outrun, easy to use) 2. Abel (sick damamge, sick range, teleport) extremely easy to play and hard to avoid 3. Clif walking dragon (extremely hard to kill, does massive damage) and again easy to play
there are probly others too. Either these require nerfing or the bad heroes require buffing. I would say those 3 are probly on the same level so they are not so imba against each other, but against weaker heroes its just bullshit.
Altho im usually able to counter rampage, Genesic is a bit imba i gotta admit, its way too easy to use.
as for abel and black wyvern, their easy to kill as shit (try lur cellant nightmare hook)
Dont get me wrong. Its just from my experience that those heroes are way more powerful than others. Its almost impossible to lose in public game no matter what heroes your play. Some just feel so much stronger than others.
yeah some feel sooooooooo powerful, with long range so you have difficulty getting to them at all, or need no skill to use
On February 07 2011 01:09 0mar wrote: this game desperately needs autostart when the lobby is full.
I disagree with the current "Pending" desync bug, this is actually a good thing to have.
By the way, I'm still trying to report Berr Nine is currently bugged. Unable to get ANY ultimate when choosing Snipe/Cloak.
And to be fair to others, I'll go ahead and agree that yes, there does need to be a slightly higher cooldown on modes like Rampage and Knight. 20 seconds of downtime really isn't much for something so incredibly powerful. Genesic himself doesn't need to be nerfed, modes just need longer cooldowns or shorter durations.
And finally, does anyone happen to have any pro replays of good Ron usage? I really can't seem to get the hang of him at all.
The problem here is that the Genesic fires his 'minions' from a distance, those minions can walk cliffs, his movement speed increases by 30%, when combined with the still active charge probably only ZeDait could outrun him, etc. Lots of heroes can't run from that for 20 seconds. it would already be better if his minions couldn't cliffwalk, or preferably if charge is disabled in that mode, since he's already tripping on steroids, how would he pull off an extra charge anyway?
In my opinion, GeneSic is OP, at least in most games, because not every game has a pro that can outmicro him, but every game has noobs which can just activate the mode attack and sit back. this means there has to be an unbalanced amount of skill for an even game, which means it's OP.
So you can't just invest gas into a teleport? You can't use tactics like slows from a distance as you see him coming because you were controlling the xel naga towers and pre-emptively start backing towards your base? Or set up a trap for him like Berr Nine's mines stacked like mad near the path to you? Point out with a ping that he's coming and have a teammate gank him with you?
I know my Janne De'Arc strategy to deal with him was very hero specific but almost everyone has a way to avoid getting torn up by Genesic. Not all heroes have a way of directly dealing with him but everyone has a way of dealing with him whether it's just being very watchful or using micro or double-teaming. Wasn't that always the best way to deal with someone in any type of PvP where someone was a major threat? Pretty much always the way I saw it anyway; team up to eliminate a high priority target.
Not every game has a pro but every game has three heroes on a team that can overpower a single hero if they all attack in an ambush. Dying to a player that chose a mode over another ultimate is usually your own fault, not the fault of the game being imbalanced.
Not that my personal opinion counts for much but I tend to find every single hero in the game is great when used properly. Expand on your strengths and avoid your weaknesses. Use teamwork and don't ever pick Ron. (Just kidding about the Ron part, but he happens to be my worst hero. =P)
sure i invest everything i can in speed/teleport when encountering a genesic. but only abel was teleport. blinking with the other claasses is just as fast as merely running away for someone bad at micro like me, while you can simply rightclick after me as the genesic player, meaning you need less skill, meaning it is imbalanced, since higher skill should mean higher win ratio. the other problem is that in 99% of the games your teammates either won't help or leave: while randomly joining a game on your own it's impossible (for me so far at least) to get people to actually kill that guy. and if you do, there are still other heroes, they're given a free farming license while you lose 2 mates to a genesic when you DO succeed (yeah, my games are that bad).
my point is: since you need more skill to get away and strike back from/at a genesic than the other needs to command the genesic, this means there is an imbalanced amount of skill involved in an even match, meaning the hero itself is imbalanced. sure not every hero is the best choice against another, but 1. you don't know before you choose your hero that your opponent is a genesic, 2. there are a LOT of heroes that can't run properly from a 12 speed (mode+charge) Genesic, not just a few that are bad, al most all of the are bad.
Isn't that like saying "SC2 is imbalanced because a 6 pool or cannon rush is something anyone can pull off and only skilled players can defend against it"?
People are slowly getting better at CoT so in time, you'll be able to more easily combat such things with a random group but again, that's the thing, you're playing in a random pub.
I'll admit that I still die to moderately good Genesics in randoms and often times will not be able to do anything about it. I just don't let it bother me as much. Genesic is good when used properly and hasn't had the nerfs that Lurcellant did. I tend to avoid them as much as I can in the late game as they're usually quite a bit stronger by that point.
I got others but this one was fun, against a sylon and zeros working together
I used potions, You need to be able to spam the nydus worm and poison in between the nydus, if you put gas in mana you won't ever have any mana to spam nydus
I love this map! I've played each hero several times now.
I've noticed a few things. Hades is extremely powerful against melee heroes early game. The dark tower has over twice the life of the wimpy marines and can be brought out by lvl 2. Many beginners get killed by this, get too far behind and either leave early or feed the other team with exp/gas the rest of the game. To counter this, change lanes with a ranged player or kill the dark tower right when he casts it.
Genesic is also extremely powerful early game. If you're going up against a genesic, watch for when he gets 300 mana and keep your distance. Also utilize the xel naga watch towers so you can run before he gets to you. Later on, you can buy health/shield/potions to just kite him. After that, he will most likely go for your defense. At that point, you should rush him and nuke him. Hopefully you will gain sweet revenge. You can also use towers defensively. I've trapped players like that on hills by spamming towers at the top, they see me (not the towers), rush me and get blown up before rampage can kill me. An acceptable nerf to rampage would be to cost 350-400 mana and 2 minerals to purchase.
Ranged and/or skilled players should play middle early. I had great success ganking skilled players in the left and right lane last night with Guard Fire.
Not killing exp boxes and trucks early game, mid game, and late game. It's always free gas and exp. If you're going somewhere, always travel close to the exp areas in each lane and kill them with an aoe spell.
Auto attacking mid game and late game. I max out mana regen before I buy almost anything else (exception is booster). At that point, even with melee heroes, I pretty much never auto attack, I just spam spells.
“That hero is OP.” I get this a lot. My hero is not OP, you just suck. If you notice someone who is doing really well, don’t just switch to that hero. Odds are, you won’t do nearly as well. Watch the replay, see how they did so well. The skill gaps in this game are tremendous! I rarely lose auto join games anymore and only lose if it’s 1v3 if the other team has decent players. I sometimes compare the skill gaps in this game to Blizzard’s ladder system. I consider myself a CT diamond player. If I was diamond in a quick match and played a bronze, I would destroy the bronze. The same is true for CT. The bottom line is that the game is mostly balanced. Some heroes counter others, but that’s where teammates come in.
Tunnel (lane) vision. Remember to look on the minimap. Many smart players will scroll around for low health players to gank. You should also kill your teammates’ mobs if one of them dies. Better you kill them than the gun turrets.
Please join channel cityoftempest for high-level games and add me Deken.817 for games!
“That hero is OP.” I get this a lot. My hero is not OP, you just suck. If you notice someone who is doing really well, don’t just switch to that hero. Odds are, you won’t do nearly as well. Watch the replay, see how they did so well. The skill gaps in this game are tremendous! I rarely lose auto join games anymore and only lose if it’s 1v3 if the other team has decent players. I sometimes compare the skill gaps in this game to Blizzard’s ladder system. I consider myself a CT diamond player. If I was diamond in a quick match and played a bronze, I would destroy the bronze. The same is true for CT. The bottom line is that the game is mostly balanced. Some heroes counter others, but that’s where teammates come in.
oh god yes, i got this retarded "LOL IMBA HERO, SO OP" with every single hero i got. i always random, so i dont have any influence and its really getting on my nerves when ppl whine all the time about OP heroes, only because they can't play.
but mostly the games i randomly join end pretty boring. the overall skill is too low and thus ends in noob bashing with them leaving in the end. and i dont know how often i won 1v2/3. its only real fun when you face people of your equal skill who can use more than 1 skill per 2 seconds...
Actually at the moment, I've had some people move on to other customs and altogether leave for other games so I'd have to face you with some of my friends rather than clan mates. Perhaps Deken and Marcus could join me to play with you guys in a friendly match.
I'm not the best CoT player by a long shot so don't look to get an amazing match.
I'd have to say if there was a ranking system for CoT, I'd be maybe low level Diamond. There's still a few tricks I've gotta learn here and there as well as gathering how to play a few select heroes a bit better.
If I were to recommend a high level non-Korean CoT player for you, I'd say try to get in touch with a guy named Justin. Very experienced CoT player and I'd rank him as a "Master's League" player compared to the numerous players I've faced.
Nameless Zero can you tell me exactly about the Berrnine bug? So when you pick cloacking, there are skills you can't use? i can't test it right now so i don't know how to tell maxstorm.
Justin is the first player from this forum i've played with a lot and he is really good. I guess he is probably much better by now (i haven't been able to play the game for a month now so busy lol). He would probably play like the non-pub korean clan level.
If you guys feel that Modes (melee ulti) are too powerful (in lasting time and cooldown time) i'll suggest some fix to maxstorm. Don't know if it will work since i haven't seen any claims in korean sites. I do know that the best player in korea played mode during tournament once and killed the other team pretty badly and ever since that happened, more people are testing out best builds for modes. (instead of buying mana potions, they buy health potions etc)
On February 09 2011 03:38 assajocuna wrote: Nameless Zero can you tell me exactly about the Berrnine bug? So when you pick cloacking, there are skills you can't use? i can't test it right now so i don't know how to tell maxstorm.
Justin is the first player from this forum i've played with a lot and he is really good. I guess he is probably much better by now (i haven't been able to play the game for a month now so busy lol). He would probably play like the non-pub korean clan level.
If you guys feel that Modes (melee ulti) are too powerful (in lasting time and cooldown time) i'll suggest some fix to maxstorm. Don't know if it will work since i haven't seen any claims in korean sites. I do know that the best player in korea played mode during tournament once and killed the other team pretty badly and ever since that happened, more people are testing out best builds for modes. (instead of buying mana potions, they buy health potions etc)
Well, the bug last time I saw it was when you were choosing Cloak as an ultimate, you wouldn't get Cloak or Snipe either one. Now it looks like the option to pick Cloak isn't even available anymore.
Justin is such a great player and I'd say he's definitely Korean non-pub level.
I wouldn't say that Modes are terribly powerful but it seems that many others are having trouble with it. I will say that much like Lur Cellant, Genesis should probably lose a skill or two while in Rampage Mode. If anything, I believe either the duration of the Mode should be reduced or the cooldown should be extended. Modes can be very powerful if you know when to use them but there's many heroes that can outright avoid a Lur Cellant in Knight Mode so I wouldn't recommend a heavy nerf to it.
I'm still trying to understand why buying potions is a good idea. To me, it feels like getting mana/regen is the same cost as constantly buying a potion, but you get a permanent bonus instead of a temporary one. I buy one to keep in reserve, in case I get jumped when I have no mana. But from watching the replays posted way back when, it seems like the koreans love buying potions over additional mana and regeneration.
I dunno, maybe it's something you need good players to realize the strength of buying potions over mana/regen.
On February 09 2011 08:51 0mar wrote: Any chance we can get patch notes in english?
Agreed. Assajocuna, do you have a replay of pro Berr. Nine and Sylon? Or maybe can you point out to me which replay from the replay pack contains em?
The replay pack from a few pages back has a game with maka v chicago. That has a decent Berrnine. The team with the berr nine doesn't do too well, but you can see some high level play at least!
I'm down for some matches against skilled players and will definitely team up with Nameless! I have finals coming up (trimester program), but will be available more next week.
On February 08 2011 05:45 NamelessZero wrote: Isn't that like saying "SC2 is imbalanced because a 6 pool or cannon rush is something anyone can pull off and only skilled players can defend against it"?
People are slowly getting better at CoT so in time, you'll be able to more easily combat such things with a random group but again, that's the thing, you're playing in a random pub.
I'll admit that I still die to moderately good Genesics in randoms and often times will not be able to do anything about it. I just don't let it bother me as much. Genesic is good when used properly and hasn't had the nerfs that Lurcellant did. I tend to avoid them as much as I can in the late game as they're usually quite a bit stronger by that point.
I see your point, and you are right. I random alot also, but somehow i always run into the enemy genesics, especially when my teammates are 5 levels lower than me and mineralfeeded him.
I checked and it seems like Maxstorm erased cloak skill temporarily. I'll try and get patchnotes up. Recent patchs were just minor patch with motion changes, effect changes, bug fix.
I'll get the patch note translated from next update.
PS. I haven't watched all the tourney replays i've posted since i was busy lately. The winning team of the tournament was "Rainism". People in korea consider this player from "jjaknun" team as the best player in korea. He uses every character but in this tournament i think he used Zeros and blade hunter most of the times.
On February 09 2011 13:46 0mar wrote: I'm still trying to understand why buying potions is a good idea. To me, it feels like getting mana/regen is the same cost as constantly buying a potion, but you get a permanent bonus instead of a temporary one. I buy one to keep in reserve, in case I get jumped when I have no mana. But from watching the replays posted way back when, it seems like the koreans love buying potions over additional mana and regeneration.
I dunno, maybe it's something you need good players to realize the strength of buying potions over mana/regen.
I was like that at first too
But once you go potion you don't go back lol
Compare the 2 ron replay posted one or 2 pages ago. Mine is with potions.
With regen you can spam 2 nydus. With a single potion you can go: Slow down > nydus > poison > acid ball > nydus > poison > ultimate
So by lvl 3 or 4 with ron and potions you are a killing machine. There's NO GLOBAL COOLDOWN or anything like that. with a potion all that stops you is the hero's abilities cooldown and your fingers.
Regen is not that great. It's mostly safe, but a guy with a potion will be able to do more.
I buy regen coz I wanna level up, not coz I wanna kill. Notice how the creeps always fit in nydus's AoE? You can kill them all at once and with regen, you get your mana back instantly. With a potion, you can do it once. Also, being a killing machine at lvl 3-4 = not that great. Chances are killing someone will benefit you less than killing a mere creep.
When you upgrade the Storm ability on the Soul Hunter hero it loses its hotkey, which makes him completely unplayable, unless you are playing with grid hotkeys. It is also missing a tooltip.
New character "Igniz" has been added. It's at test stage so feel free to give us your impression, suggestions, bugs, etc...
I still don't know what to do with modes (melee berserk modes) because we never had any debate about modes in korean server. I really need more feedback, and if you want it to change, how do you want it to be changed to?
I buy regen to level as well but honestly, regen is garbage compared to potions. Also, killing at level 2 and 3 is actually kind of a big deal because it allows you to farm out the creeps when they're dead to the point of being able to run yours into their turrets and then hit their exp boxes on your way back. The huge respawn timer early on is actually kind of a big deal. The only problem is that when you buy an early potion, you really need to be positive you can make the kill or you've just wasted a huge investment. Like bobbeh said, once you potion, you never go back. I buy potions throughout the game now. Against higher level players, you'll need potions to get that edge on destroying building quickly and getting out before you get ganked or to make a quick kill before your team hits a key structure.
Assajocuna, I really just think the cooldowns or durations need to be lower for Modes, honestly. Some heroes really don't have much of a chance against a mode, Rampage being the most dominant in destroying people. Experienced players can sometimes avoid it with slows and retreating but not all heroes have something like that. So either the cooldown or duration needs to be nerfed or you can do something like take away the survivability. Let them keep the huge killing power but make them take extra damage. You shouldn't be able to get nothing but benefits from a Mode for a full 30 seconds.
It's just that I've been able to run through someone's base at level 15 and kill them in their healing area with their colonels attacking me and run back through the turrets and colonels while Rampage is still up and be able to survive.
Outside of mode characters, the only thing I think needs to be rebalanced is Dwarven King. Once he gets the ability to bring out many tanks and get tower vision on high ground, you really can't do much to stop him from destroying your buildings unless you're someone like Zeros or any other hero with a strong long-range nuke to try to knock out him or his tanks. If you go near with any other hero to try to stop the siege, you'll probably just be slowed and die to the 8 tanks firing at you along with the Dwarven King ultimate.
Some people say Hades is imba but I think if you manage yourself well early on, you can catch up to him. He's garbage if you keep killing his pylon early game.
New character "Igniz" has been added. It's at test stage so feel free to give us your impression, suggestions, bugs, etc...
I've played with the new hero Igniz a few times and I've gotta say I like him. I think there's some minor changes that should be made. At the moment he's kind of like a Diet Arcane.
He's got great damage but some of it takes a bit of time to kick in because of the "Continuous Damage" modifiers to them. Being that some of his damage is damage-over-time, I'd say the cost of his spells need to be a bit lower. Right now you're pretty much forced to drop gas into potions to do any great damage with him. His auto-attack is much like Arcane's. I like the non-target skill you start out with, definitely helps when you're trying to evade someone's attacks and attack back at the same time without stopping.
He's got almost zero survivability to go along with his high spell cost though. No slow/stun so he's incredibly vulnerable to anyone that can slow/stun or jump him quickly, especially if you're caught without a potion. Great for leveling on creeps and taking down buildings and a beautiful counter to heroes that have killable summons like the Dark Tower for Hades or siege tanks from Dwarven King. Absolutely eats killable summons.
I'd say his best attributes right now are his good damage (when using potions), SUPERIOR range, and the ability to shoot through fog of war. In a high level game though, I can see him being easily destroyed by any hero that can slow/stun or boost their own speed. At the very least, I'd say he probably needs a minor slow so he can maintain that nice range advantage against melee or to be able to chase people down and continue nuking them. He'd still be weak against blink heroes but every hero needs a weakness somewhere.
My only problem with Igniz is that his abilities really take up a lot of screen real estate. After casting two or three spells, the entire screen can be full of orange flames and it's impossible to see anything.
Also, any chance we can get the stats on the dark pylon fixed? There's no way it does 7 damage at 1.5 attack speed and manage to wipe out a creep mob in 2 seconds.
Seems there has been a new update with a new hero Horus.
Cool concept but the silence skill feels ridiculously overpowered. Silence + slow + amplify damage in 1 spell seems too much for anyone to handle. I guess it can be countered by mode heroes i suppose.
Toshihito, I agree with you, Horus is overpowered. I've beaten 2 modes hero with it, both being in modes. Horus can raise his attack to up to 600 for a decent amount of time.
I've been playing a few pub rounds with Black Wyvern, and I must say, when you max out speed + wings + 0.75 booster it can be pretty OP. Been in about 5 games, two of which were 3v1 against, and all the opposing team members left the game -.- Ultimate + Curse is just very powerful ^^
I love the new hero, but he may be a bit OP. Two easy to use snares is really too powerful, especially when he does great damage, can silence your skills and make them take more damage. On top of all that, he has a damage reduction of 50%? Jesus! This is almost as bad as when Arcane first came out and could one-shot level 25 heroes lol.
Love the concept though; some tweaking with his skills and I could definitely see myself picking him over Lur.
On February 13 2011 09:03 assajocuna wrote: The new heroes are in test stage so there will be a lot of changes.
I think EU version gets updated right after NA update. If it didn't get updated, it'll probably be updated after some tweaks.
The silence spell is basically a death blow. There's nothing you can do except TP out. Slowed, extra damage and no energy usage is just too much. It lasts FOREVER too.
Other than that, I think only number tweaking is in order.
City of Tempest is awesome I havent played anything else for the last two months
One of the reasons i started playing it over the other customs: When i tried SOTIS, people kept asking me to leave Playing so called "OP" heroes like Genesic Hunter, i was able to get an occasional kill by catching someone by surprise and it got me addicted It just plain out rocks with the variety of heroes and styles of play
However, City of Tempest should definately NOT be on the second page of customs
We need to grow the game (or grow the sport) We need more NOOBs to continue playing the game
That will ensure more games, more variety, less waiting, and eventually, more high level play
Some tips to grow the sport:
DO NOT TRY TO GO 27-0 what the #%@$ is the point of killing Noobs like that? Does that take skill? Anyone who brags about going 27-0 shows that he doesnt understand that any experienced player in any game can easily beat up on Noobs, much harder to go 10-5 against an experienced player Try doing that against a player like GhostPanda who constantly whips my #%@$ Please, for the sake and future of the game, do not beat up on Noobs There is no glory in killing someone 5 levels below you It only discourages them to play again
INSTEAD OF KILLING NOOBS, GIVE THEM A TIP OR TWO It takes a few seconds I became addicted to the game 2months ago I invited all my friends to start playing Now when someone invites me to play ladder/WOW/etc, im inviting them to play City of Tempest
TRAINING A NOOB when a friend wants to try it out i start up a custom game with just both of us (or with another friend or two) I tell them to pick an easier player like Genesic Hunter I give them easy instructions:
The first screen alllows you to pick a hero Go to lower left corner and pick Genesic Hunter
As soon as the game starts, go to right lower corner and use your one mineral to level up your mana (or you can just press tab R)
Then go to your lane (if you start left, go left lane, if you start right go right, if you start middle go middle)
Hit the first green capsule you see for experience
Then start hitting the marines to level up
First level up your mana to level 5. Each time you level up you get 2 minerals.
After that level up your attack x2
When you hit level 7 level your ultimate power Rampage Mode
Leveling up
Use your AOE attack to kill marines and also near clumps of green canisters
Killing marines or green canisters gives you experience to level up to 25, and also gives you gas
You only get experience with a kill, so hit stuff that is red and almost ready to die
Spending gas
Go to the Shop upper or lower corners Gas buys things like
Mana regeneration for 750 gas Do this with your first 750 gas. Increased mana means more spells means quicker levelling
Increased mana for 500 gas
Do both of those several times then can upgrade attack, shields, speed, etc depending on what you need for your opponent
Healing
Healing stations upper or lower corners Always heal when your icon turns red better to waste a few seconds going to heal vs giving your opponent a kill, gas and experience
On February 14 2011 01:15 rkidwell wrote: City of Tempest is awesome I havent played anything else for the last two months
One of the reasons i started playing it over the other customs: When i tried SOTIS, people kept asking me to leave Playing so called "OP" heroes like Genesic Hunter, i was able to get an occasional kill by catching someone by surprise and it got me addicted It just plain out rocks with the variety of heroes and styles of play
However, City of Tempest should definately NOT be on the second page of customs
We need to grow the game (or grow the sport) We need more NOOBs to continue playing the game
That will ensure more games, more variety, less waiting, and eventually, more high level play
Some tips to grow the sport:
DO NOT TRY TO GO 27-0 what the #%@$ is the point of killing Noobs like that? Does that take skill? Anyone who brags about going 27-0 shows that he doesnt understand that any experienced player in any game can easily beat up on Noobs, much harder to go 10-5 against an experienced player Try doing that against a player like GhostPanda who constantly whips my #%@$ Please, for the sake and future of the game, do not beat up on Noobs There is no glory in killing someone 5 levels below you It only discourages them to play again
INSTEAD OF KILLING NOOBS, GIVE THEM A TIP OR TWO It takes a few seconds I became addicted to the game 2months ago I invited all my friends to start playing Now when someone invites me to play ladder/WOW/etc, im inviting them to play City of Tempest
TRAINING A NOOB when a friend wants to try it out i start up a custom game with just both of us (or with another friend or two) I tell them to pick an easier player like Genesic Hunter I give them easy instructions:
The first screen alllows you to pick a hero Go to lower left corner and pick Genesic Hunter
As soon as the game starts, go to right lower corner and use your one mineral to level up your mana (or you can just press tab R)
Then go to your lane (if you start left, go left lane, if you start right go right, if you start middle go middle)
Hit the first green capsule you see for experience
Then start hitting the marines to level up
First level up your mana to level 5. Each time you level up you get 2 minerals.
After that level up your attack x2
When you hit level 7 level your ultimate power Rampage Mode
Leveling up
Use your AOE attack to kill marines and also near clumps of green canisters
Killing marines or green canisters gives you experience to level up to 25, and also gives you gas
You only get experience with a kill, so hit stuff that is red and almost ready to die
Spending gas
Go to the Shop upper or lower corners Gas buys things like
Mana regeneration for 750 gas Do this with your first 750 gas. Increased mana means more spells means quicker levelling
Increased mana for 500 gas
Do both of those several times then can upgrade attack, shields, speed, etc depending on what you need for your opponent
Healing
Healing stations upper or lower corners Always heal when your icon turns red better to waste a few seconds going to heal vs giving your opponent a kill, gas and experience
First off, everyone starts off a noob. They need to be killed so they learn the hard way. You can't just let them roam free to kill creeps and destroy buildings so that's kind of a bad bit of advice. Also, if you're just getting Rampage mode at level 7, you're doing terrible. If you're investing gas early into max mana, you're doing terrible.
Your guide has a lot of enthusiasm but it's very inaccurate and will only lead to more people becoming noobs. You need to go into some private games with some very experienced players before you start giving advice. Most very skilled players almost NEVER invest into max mana via gas in the early game before shields and attack and so on.
Please remove this guide from your post but do keep the rest of the enthusiasm. I agree whole-heartedly that CoT needs to grow and I'd love to start seeing tournaments being held as well as some English websites and fansites.
EDIT: Also, you're a jerk for telling people to pick Genesic Hunter as their starting characters. Not only is he a cheesy character, but he'll never teach you anything about the importance of good micro, tower control, and click accuracy. If people start picking Genesic in the beginning, they'll pick him from then on and when they get into higher level games and get roflstomped, they'll blame imbalance (which already happens far too often in CoT as it stands)
On February 14 2011 01:15 rkidwell wrote: City of Tempest is awesome I havent played anything else for the last two months
One of the reasons i started playing it over the other customs: When i tried SOTIS, people kept asking me to leave Playing so called "OP" heroes like Genesic Hunter, i was able to get an occasional kill by catching someone by surprise and it got me addicted It just plain out rocks with the variety of heroes and styles of play
However, City of Tempest should definately NOT be on the second page of customs
We need to grow the game (or grow the sport) We need more NOOBs to continue playing the game
That will ensure more games, more variety, less waiting, and eventually, more high level play
Some tips to grow the sport:
DO NOT TRY TO GO 27-0 what the #%@$ is the point of killing Noobs like that? Does that take skill? Anyone who brags about going 27-0 shows that he doesnt understand that any experienced player in any game can easily beat up on Noobs, much harder to go 10-5 against an experienced player Try doing that against a player like GhostPanda who constantly whips my #%@$ Please, for the sake and future of the game, do not beat up on Noobs There is no glory in killing someone 5 levels below you It only discourages them to play again
INSTEAD OF KILLING NOOBS, GIVE THEM A TIP OR TWO It takes a few seconds I became addicted to the game 2months ago I invited all my friends to start playing Now when someone invites me to play ladder/WOW/etc, im inviting them to play City of Tempest
TRAINING A NOOB when a friend wants to try it out i start up a custom game with just both of us (or with another friend or two) I tell them to pick an easier player like Genesic Hunter I give them easy instructions:
The first screen alllows you to pick a hero Go to lower left corner and pick Genesic Hunter
As soon as the game starts, go to right lower corner and use your one mineral to level up your mana (or you can just press tab R)
Then go to your lane (if you start left, go left lane, if you start right go right, if you start middle go middle)
Hit the first green capsule you see for experience
Then start hitting the marines to level up
First level up your mana to level 5. Each time you level up you get 2 minerals.
After that level up your attack x2
When you hit level 7 level your ultimate power Rampage Mode
Leveling up
Use your AOE attack to kill marines and also near clumps of green canisters
Killing marines or green canisters gives you experience to level up to 25, and also gives you gas
You only get experience with a kill, so hit stuff that is red and almost ready to die
Spending gas
Go to the Shop upper or lower corners Gas buys things like
Mana regeneration for 750 gas Do this with your first 750 gas. Increased mana means more spells means quicker levelling
Increased mana for 500 gas
Do both of those several times then can upgrade attack, shields, speed, etc depending on what you need for your opponent
Healing
Healing stations upper or lower corners Always heal when your icon turns red better to waste a few seconds going to heal vs giving your opponent a kill, gas and experience
I haven't heard of anyone qutting if you pwn them in a game, if I was killed badly in a new game mode I would want to play again to get even better and reach the skill level of my opponent. On the other case giving "tips" would only project an elitism that a would only hurt this game mode's population. Imo, the best way to increase the people playing would be maybe to improve the english community as in getting a some patch notes in english posted here or explain a few skills which are hard to understand (claria point bonus>?) Like NamelessZero said, we need some english sites up and a place where people can give proper advice to each other. I would love to help translate some skills and descriptions better and help with the eu and english versions of this mod. Also If someone could teach meh how to do that charge acceleration thing with no target that I saw in the korean replays that would be great
My code is Hyperion 571 and I play on the eu server I would like to play with skilled players and help newer ones, hit me up.
Smoke grenade makes you (if u are inside the smoke) take 50% less damage from ranged attacks, including skills. (no effect against melee) Also i believe if you smoke bomb turrets or firing buildings, their attack damage becomes 50% too. I'm not quite sure if it changed.
I'm really thinking about making a web site for this game but i barely have time these days Need some forums for guides, patch notes, and all that stuff. It's hard to see in tl forum thread like this.
Also we should maybe organize a small tournament just to gather people and play for fun. There probably is a lot of good players by now, just need to organize an event and see.
What happened in korea is when we organized a small tournament after around 2 months into game, there were actually quite a lot of good players, and after the replays from the tourney went public, the general level of pub games increased greatly. I wonder if that'll happen too in NA and EU.
I think it really depends on your hero on what to spend your gas on (and what skills you've invested in). Personally, I prefer the Attack Upgrade with my first 800 gas (which will let you start destroying the experience boxes and trucks much more quickly, and a lot easier to harass your laning opponent as well if you have decent range). After that, keep in mind to have a health and mana potion in case you end up fighting, get shields and health if they are one shotting you, and mana regen when you start to attack the enemy barracks.
Also If someone could teach meh how to do that charge acceleration thing with no target that I saw in the korean replays that would be great
Charge a building or anything charge-able and then right as your charge begins, click attack-move to wherever you wanna charge towards. You gotta be fast but it's very handy on cutting down your idle/downtime when traveling as well as being great for a retreat.
I think it really depends on your hero on what to spend your gas on (and what skills you've invested in). Personally, I prefer the Attack Upgrade with my first 800 gas (which will let you start destroying the experience boxes and trucks much more quickly, and a lot easier to harass your laning opponent as well if you have decent range). After that, keep in mind to have a health and mana potion in case you end up fighting, get shields and health if they are one shotting you, and mana regen when you start to attack the enemy barracks.
Health potions in the early game against seasoned players will almost always be a waste of gas. A health potion isn't going to protect you from a mana-potioned skillspam. The regen is just far too slow. Mana regen helps with creep killing but in high level games, it's not all that great for killing enemy structures. For example, take Sylon, the highest combo output in the game - If you use his ultimate and then a potion and then spam your other skills on any enemy structure, it's gonna drop in a handful of seconds and this can be done in the super-early game for a mere 350 gas. Or you can wait until level 15 and try to do it slower with maxed mana regen and probably get jumped as they come to defend their still-standing structures.
On February 14 2011 14:30 assajocuna wrote: Smoke grenade makes you (if u are inside the smoke) take 50% less damage from ranged attacks, including skills. (no effect against melee) Also i believe if you smoke bomb turrets or firing buildings, their attack damage becomes 50% too. I'm not quite sure if it changed..
ok thx, but really the tooltip should be more accurate here.
and another bug: the high templar now has finally all hotkeys working, but the tooltip on the upgrade to make this orb additionally slow is bugged. though when selected the skill itself displays it properly and hotkey is working aswell. its just the button to upgrade this orb.
edit: oh and is there any place to check the patch notes on the eu version?
On February 14 2011 14:30 assajocuna wrote: I'm really thinking about making a web site for this game but i barely have time these days Need some forums for guides, patch notes, and all that stuff. It's hard to see in tl forum thread like this.
Also we should maybe organize a small tournament just to gather people and play for fun. There probably is a lot of good players by now, just need to organize an event and see.
I'd love to see a website made for this game and I'm sure there's many here that agree and many to help you in the development.
I WANT THIS TOURNAMENT! I highly doubt I'll come out on top or even near the top but this tournament needs to happen. If it does, we're gonna see a huge increase in players so long as we get the word out about tournaments starting for it.
I'd love a tournament too. I'd rather have everyone sign up individually and then teams randomly assigned to make it more competitive. Right now, I don't think there's enough competition to warrant an arranged team tournament. Just my opinion.
I am down for any tournament. It's impossible for me to lose now, (I always random to) The only time I have any competition is when I run into a few groups of teams.
Before the tournament starts, I'd really like to see all modes get nerfed though. To be honest, it's pretty retarded when you go up against a good Genesic. You can have an 8 level advantage and still die to them. The biggest issue being that his mode is ranged and modes only give benefits, never drawbacks outside of a 20 second wait period.
This is what I'm gonna propose now. Going into a mode gives a debuff to counter the amazing power of it. I'd recommend letting them keep the killing power but making them take increased damage in their mode. 25-50% increased damage taken would be enough to help counter a mode but let them keep the speed increase and damage. They could still help to counter this later by spending gas on cards so it wouldn't be a complete loss but they really need to have a weakness. I've had many pub games where I destroyed "good" 3 man teams all on my own with just spamming all of my archons out and then sending them in to tank and attack while I pop Rampage and then go kill everything in a matter of seconds with a single potion.
At the moment, even some of the highest level players I've interviewed have agreed that a Genesic of mediocre skill is absolutely ridiculous and if you look over this whole thread, it seems to be the common thought process about modes in general, not just Genesic.
To add in one last supporting clause, Assa just mentioned that a mode player devastated in a tournament in Korea. That should help support the fact that all modes need drawbacks to counter their insane buffs. At the moment, there's no reason to not have a good Genesic in your team composition due to the power of all modes and his mode being ranged.
I agree with the point regarding Genesic. It is easy to use and ridiculously powerful. Its skills can be easily button mashing spammed with a mana potion and its defensive power is ridiculous. The fact that its mode is ranged is just way too much as the interceptors can mess up your pathing. Furthermore, even escaping from it may not be an option for many spell caster characters with low speed as the mode boosts Genesic's speed as well. Not to mention Genesic can use charge.
Overall, it is way too powerful. I found it to be the the one character that I am afraid of in a Pub game. There is the need to remove the speed boost from its mode at least.
At this point here is how you play a melee mode hero:
Hide at watch tower, press F, right click on enemy, smash ZXCV on your keyboard - no matter if you are still learning or have played over 500 games that is what you will do. There is no precision required, no need to hit keys accurately or in any particular order. If you make contact with your opponent it's a 99% kill. Once you get a few kills your advantage snowballs out of control. Not to mention that in almost all bnet public games there are usually one or two new players and the melee heroes easily feed of them making them seem godlike. I personally stopped playing melee heroes because people start raging about balance and I really just want to enjoy the game.
Bottom line - these heroes are way too easy to use compared to others.
However, being easy to use is different from being imbalanced. It's very hard for me to tell if modes are actually imbalanced, because there are heroes and abilities specifically meant to counter them(at least soft counter) - Ron with his parasite slow(reduces movement speed to 2.75), Soul Hunter's ice mage (straight up cancels the mode), Krizard's freeze, Mighty Monk has invincibility, Jana d'Arc can forcefield ramps, etc.. In an actual team game where all people play with a common idea and coordinated actions melee heroes might seem not that overpowered.
I think having a casual tournament with random teams would be great. It is from there that real conclusions about balance can be made.
On another topic - I would be really happy if we can see the patch notes, cos the map gets updated daily and I'm never sure what has changed.
Seeing as the tournament hasn't even been organised yet, if you're not in a team surely now would be the time to find one? Having random teams just defies the point of teamwork and would make the tournament a lot less interesting and competitive.
Drakar, you haven't even mentioned charge cancelling when you talk about melee heroes. This increases the skill cap a lot, especially in melee vs melee battles. Obviously what you're talking about is good enough for pub games, but that's not saying anything is it...
edit: if you want to find a team, a good place to start would be the 'cityoftempest' chat channel on both servers
I'm not saying modes can't be countered, Drakar. I'm in agreement with you that it's easy to counter if you pick specific characters but even still, there needs to be a downside to choosing it. I don't really lose against garbage mode players or new players but when I face someone moderately experienced with a mode hero, it's usually going to be gg. I can still typically avoid them but with only 20 seconds of downtime between their modes, that's a lot of map control you're giving to them. You're pretty much forced to double up on one hero to beat him and even then, if they're good, you're still probably going to have one of you die.
Coordinated attacks with teammates are very good at stopping a mode hero but it's a bit of a problem to have to start teaming up at level 3 unless you have a Phantom or Wyvern hanging in mid on your team or you spent a good amount of time/energy breaking down the necessary barriers to cut down on travel time to engage in the gank.
By the way, being that I love to study all kinds of game replays from all levels of play, I'd love it if one of you champs could post me an epic Krizard replay. Before anyone starts spamming their replays like mad, the criteria that need to be met are one or more of the following: An excellent kill/death ratio Solo killing Multiple team kills Mass building destruction
Again, I don't care much if it's a super high skill level but I'd love to see a quality replay of Krizard doing well so I can get a good study on him. Thanks ahead of time, guys.
Edit: I don't see how charge canceling will help in a melee vs melee in the sense of a retreat though if they're basically right behind you. Since you have to attack-move elsewhere to cancel the charge, you'll run back and attack them if they're just about on top of you. In terms of catching up to someone though, a charge cancel is amazingly useful. Hell, I use charge canceling at pretty much all times whether I'm in a fight or not. It cuts down on your idle time so much; nothing wrong with more speed and less time doing nothing.
Also the whole F to ZXCV is how you use just about any hero so I don't see where that's valid to post in a complaint about melee heroes. Skill spam is where it's at in CoT. Knowing the proper order to spam them is the key.
I just played against the new hero that can silence, the silence wasn't a problem by itself, but I just couldn't tell until i started spamming my stuff. (Is there a way to tell??? I didn't see any)
It doesn't gray out your abilities or anything, and it's a small black attack
I had klazart, I'd freeze him and try to go kill his friend, pop a potion and then... aww fuck silenced and died to his teammate while he was stuck there frozen
Edit: I don't see how charge canceling will help in a melee vs melee in the sense of a retreat though if they're basically right behind you. Since you have to attack-move elsewhere to cancel the charge, you'll run back and attack them if they're just about on top of you. In terms of catching up to someone though, a charge cancel is amazingly useful. Hell, I use charge canceling at pretty much all times whether I'm in a fight or not. It cuts down on your idle time so much; nothing wrong with more speed and less time doing nothing.
Obviously if you charge on a neutral building then they're not right behind you... this buffer gives you enough room to charge cancel to safety
Edit: I don't see how charge canceling will help in a melee vs melee in the sense of a retreat though if they're basically right behind you. Since you have to attack-move elsewhere to cancel the charge, you'll run back and attack them if they're just about on top of you. In terms of catching up to someone though, a charge cancel is amazingly useful. Hell, I use charge canceling at pretty much all times whether I'm in a fight or not. It cuts down on your idle time so much; nothing wrong with more speed and less time doing nothing.
Obviously if you charge on a neutral building then they're not right behind you... this buffer gives you enough room to charge cancel to safety
If you invest in a little speed + booster, you can run down a guy who charge cancels. He'll run back into you, giving you a free kill.
About Horus: I'm not sure how wise it is to have a hero with his silence/slow combo in a tournament format. He'll either be picked every game for the silence/slow or banned every game. I think just the combination of the two is too strong, and the fact that no other hero has a similarly strong functionality makes him a little IMBA in the overall roster.
On February 15 2011 17:53 Vod.kaholic wrote: About Horus: I'm not sure how wise it is to have a hero with his silence/slow combo in a tournament format. He'll either be picked every game for the silence/slow or banned every game. I think just the combination of the two is too strong, and the fact that no other hero has a similarly strong functionality makes him a little IMBA in the overall roster.
How is he different than like... all the other heroes??
On February 15 2011 17:53 Vod.kaholic wrote: About Horus: I'm not sure how wise it is to have a hero with his silence/slow combo in a tournament format. He'll either be picked every game for the silence/slow or banned every game. I think just the combination of the two is too strong, and the fact that no other hero has a similarly strong functionality makes him a little IMBA in the overall roster.
Horus has actually been nerfed into the ground pretty hardcore... kind of a trashy hero now unless you are absolutely pristine with him.
I think something needs to be done about Dwarven King's tanks. Once it's setup, you can't do anything about it. Tanks do like 350 damage a shot and DK has a great slow.
IMO, a good DK player is even stronger than any mode player.
I feel DK's tanks are pretty amazing if someone's a good DK player. If you take the high ground and keep tower vision with tanks spread out rather than clumped up, it can be very difficult to break. Normally I'd say avoid it but it seems to be that DK is always attacking your buildings so it's not really something you can ignore.
My best advice to you is to play Igniz if you think you're gonna face a DK. The long range of Igniz combined with his wide area of attack will burn those tanks down quickly. Or if you want, you can take any long range attack and just try to outright kill DK, ie: Dark True Strike from Zeros.
i have a pretty good DK replay too if you want it zero i think kizarld is a really good support character but everyone in pub thinks he sucks lmao its kinda funny. I studied him and learned how to use his skills at the right timings so he's actually really good
i have a pretty good DK replay too if you want it zero i think kizarld is a really good support character but everyone in pub thinks he sucks lmao its kinda funny. I studied him and learned how to use his skills at the right timings so he's actually really good
i can post a tutorial if you guys want
Thank you very much for your replay. It's nice to see people doing well with heroes that aren't understood very well. Some more things I'd like to see more of in future games with Krizard are:
Timing your freeze attack with your green box to have the box explode at the very moment the opponent comes out of his freeze. Defeating two opponents at once by utilizing the freeze attack to negate one. Solo general killing.
Again, thanks very much for uploading these replays guys. You're helping many players out, not just helping me to study.
Okay the one thing I disagree with is that the ice box technique is more or less made for defensive purposes not offensive so utlizing icebox when they comeout would help reduce incoming damage
Example when freezing most ranged characters will attack as soon as the freeze technique dispels so extra defense would help against it And plus icebox does not do much damage lmao
Just the way I thought about that skill do you agree?
On February 16 2011 11:15 kingkira wrote: Okay the one thing I disagree with is that the ice box technique is more or less made for defensive purposes not offensive so utlizing icebox when they comeout would help reduce incoming damage
Example when freezing most ranged characters will attack as soon as the freeze technique dispels so extra defense would help against it And plus icebox does not do much damage lmao
Just the way I thought about that skill do you agree?
Why is that funny? Anyway, you should probably take a look at your skills and do some research before you make another post.
Ice Block does as much damage as an individual spear from Ice Spear, more damage than your ultimate, and nearly as much as Ice Breaker. On a hero that heavily lacks in the damage department, stringing any skills together that you can do to more damage is kind of necessary.
It has defensive capabilities but it sits stationary on the ground and any high skill player is going to tell you that there's no better defense than simply avoiding a hit altogether. You're not gonna do that while sitting still inside of a box and Krizard most certainly doesn't need to sit still being as fragile as he is.
Krizard is a support character based heavily on timing in order to keep from getting crushed and I feel that the fact of the matter remains that his Ice Block does damage for a reason. If you're playing Krizard properly, the first reaction that a ranged hero is going to have is not to attack you as soon as the freeze dispels, it's going to be to run before they get double-teamed or to go heal up. Not to mention you spoke as if the freeze didn't last long enough for you to run up and Ice Block and still have time to retreat.
Assa you told me to upload some good games so here I am =P.
High level North American inhouse game with a bit of back and forth. Players who excelled in this game are Justin and Hype. I'm happy that I've finally found some good players to play with check it out.
Modes seem like they are fairly easy to counter in high level play. You have to consider if you would rather balance be at the low level or at high level.
My only problem with the modes is that they require no skill. For several ranged like igniz or zava, you have to anticipate your opponent's movement and try to hit them. With modes, it's 1 button and you right click. I don't even pick modes on heroes any more (except for berr/megagun) because they are so damn cheesy.
Modes shouldn't apply debuffs either. It's bad enough that melee have movement speed and charge, but a slow is a little over the top...
By the way, I love igniz now. His skills are extremely fun to use and it makes it a lot more challenging to try to kill people (in contrast to drago, soul hunter, sylon, etc).
On February 16 2011 18:02 Deken wrote: Modes seem like they are fairly easy to counter in high level play. You have to consider if you would rather balance be at the low level or at high level.
My only problem with the modes is that they require no skill. For several ranged like igniz or zava, you have to anticipate your opponent's movement and try to hit them. With modes, it's 1 button and you right click. I don't even pick modes on heroes any more (except for berr/megagun) because they are so damn cheesy.
Modes shouldn't apply debuffs either. It's bad enough that melee have movement speed and charge, but a slow is a little over the top...
By the way, I love igniz now. His skills are extremely fun to use and it makes it a lot more challenging to try to kill people (in contrast to drago, soul hunter, sylon, etc).
Agreed. Like I said man, modes just need a drawback to them.. Probably increased damage taken. Really, only Genesic seems to murder at high level. Get a great player using Genesic and you'll probably never beat them without teamwork or a serious level advantage.
Igniz is great but like you said, he's probably not as good as a great Drago. Drago when played properly is very strong.
any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther.
On February 17 2011 09:17 0mar wrote: any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther.
Yeah I kinda wish they were still in the map. Was a great place to gain a major advantage.
On February 17 2011 09:17 0mar wrote: any particular reason why the security soldiers/experience dump trucks were taken out? There were a good place to catch up if you fell behind, but it could also be the case that they could help a team with a slight edge get even farther.
Yeah I kinda wish they were still in the map. Was a great place to gain a major advantage.
I can see why they were taken out. I haven't killed security soldiers in weeks. I usually just zoom between lanes and kill exp boxes and enemy troops. In the korean replays I saw, they were killing most of the defense before lvl 15, which rarely happens in NA servers. I suspect they were taken out because security soldiers are rarely killed in high level play.
There are a few changes that I think might add some neat features:
It would be cool if the troops had abilities to protect and/or harm heroes. Stick in a few marauders so you can use your troops to help you escape and/or punish overzealous heroes. This will make the enemy spawn more than just walking exp boxes.
I'd also like to see some bonuses applied (inc health or dmg, etc) if you are fighting on your side of the map near your defenses. It is very difficult to kill heroes like drago, dwarven king, and hades who have a crap ton of static defense wailing on your defense and you.
Penalties should be applied for suicide deaths (death by the other team's npcs). I've killed many heroes early game by running after them into their defense and I don't care because I get exp and gas and they get nothing.
Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
On February 16 2011 16:33 justjuice wrote: Assa you told me to upload some good games so here I am =P.
High level North American inhouse game with a bit of back and forth. Players who excelled in this game are Justin and Hype. I'm happy that I've finally found some good players to play with check it out.
An excellent game. Probably one of the highest level North American replays you're gonna find on this thread to date. If you're looking to learn more about how to properly play blink heroes, or what a high level Zava looks like, this is definitely the replay to watch.
On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote: Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote: Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
Igniz
I believe I've stated that multiple times in this thread already, refer to post of my thoughts on Igniz the day he was released. Regardless, you shouldn't be forced to pick one specific hero or to buy and use a potion just to stop a summon. Dwarven King really isn't that bad if you're good and you push him back early on but Hades can really be a pain... atleast DK's tanks can't shoot through fog for a retarded range.
To be honest though, if I had to choose between any current nerfs, it would probably be Modes and more specific, Genesic's rampage mode. Let Hades have his pylon that's practically unkillable until level 5 or higher and let DK have his tank spam, just nerf Genesic's ridiculous damage, range, and survivability while in a mode.
It's pretty much impossible to lose a game as Genesic with Rampage unless you're a complete scrub.
Genesic ulti is indeed strong, but the hero is very weak in the beginning. You can easily out level him with most heros. Also you have to know that you cannot beat him 1v1 unless you are zeros or lurcellant. So try to gank him a lot so he will have lower level than everyone else.
cityoftempest channel will be up on loading screen soon.
I've talked about modes especially rampage mode with MaxStorm but he still doesn't think it's op. Any character can be op in pub games but when you balance the game, it has to be balanced towards high level. He thinks modes have many weaknesses and in korea there are talks about them being useless compared to other ulti.
The most important part of the game i think is the beginning. Don't let genesic or any hero ur facing level up easy. Think about ways to disturb them with your hero. Genesic becomes strong if you let him lvl up easy and he becomes around 6 lvl +. So keep ganking him, make him go to heal. Use potions wisely. If genesic chooses rampage mode, and you fight with him with potion, he only has 2 skills to use + normal attacks, where as you (depending on hero) would have more skills to use with ulti. Ulti is the big difference. If you kill him early, he most likely becomes useless.
Heroes like horus is strong on 1on 1, but this game is team game. He is so useless when it comes to 2 on 1. and he can barely destroy buildings even with potioin. You have to think about team balance too.
We'll have to see how tournament goes and talk about balance. I'll try and arrange one soon. If we want modes to be balanced and other balance issue, i'll have to show Maxstorm some replays.
I've talked about modes especially rampage mode with MaxStorm but he still doesn't think it's op. Any character can be op in pub games but when you balance the game, it has to be balanced towards high level. He thinks modes have many weaknesses and in korea there are talks about them being useless compared to other ulti.
I thought you said that in the recent tournament, a mode player dominated throughout.
On February 17 2011 11:39 NamelessZero wrote: Drago is one thing but Dwarven King and Hades are both incredibly strong if a great player is using them. To be honest, I don't think any class out there can stop Hades Dark Tower early on without using a potion or turrets of their own and it's kind of a lost cause to kill the Dark Tower after it's already killed your creeps which kinda negates using your own turrets as they'll kill it far more slowly.
I personally find Dwarven King to be far easier to kill than Hades in the early game. Dark Tower starts off incredibly strong and doesn't get much stronger as the game goes on but by the time you can one shot the tower, he's already killed you many times or out-leveled you by a landslide.
dark tower is negated once u start upgrading armor. upgraded armor makes the tower virtually useless. but ya thats the only decent way to deal with it. his tower is way stronger then it needs to be. most of the time the tower is the main way hades gets his kills.
i agree that the tower itself needs some kind of nerf.
On February 18 2011 23:59 vulture7 wrote: I don't understand why people think Hades tower is overpowered. It can easily be destroyed by most spells even in early game.
^^^^
this to. most power house classes can one hit the tower with some spells. ron in particular gets rid of the tower with ease. i think tho what most ppl are saying is that you shouldnt have to get specific upgrades and a specific character just to counter ONE spell.
On February 18 2011 22:57 0mar wrote: I thought you said that in the recent tournament, a mode player dominated throughout.
The best player in korea used blade hunter mode in one game i think which he dominated. But that was only 1 game. Throughout the whole tournament, the hero that dominated the most were Zava and Zeros.
On February 18 2011 22:57 0mar wrote: I thought you said that in the recent tournament, a mode player dominated throughout.
The best player in korea used blade hunter mode in one game i think which he dominated. But that was only 1 game. Throughout the whole tournament, the hero that dominated the most were Zava and Zeros.
ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.
I must suck supremely with Zava then because I can't get anything going with her ever. I still do decently in most pubs with her, but this just shows how big a gulf there is between an average pubber and top players.
Okay, well, if a Genesic is a player of equivalent skill, you're not gonna stop him that bad in the early game. He can still run in and kill a pack of creeps and back away. Yeah you might be able to get an advantage early game but in the late game, he'll come back and destroy you. You can be level 20 and he can be 14 and he'll kill you if he potions as he attacks to spam skills. Yeah he's only got two spells but it can still hurt. I normally handle Rampage mode without problems when facing lower level players but it can be a real pain against an experienced player.
To those talking about the Dark Tower being negated by armor and being killed in one hit, I'd really like for you to show me which hero can 1 hit the Dark Tower at level 3. I'd also like to know how you can afford to buy tons of armor starting at level 3 to negate the effects of Dark Tower. No one really cares about Hades in the mid and late game, it's the early game where Hades rules. He's a joke if you can survive his early game. The point is to find a way to stay on even ground with him. Hades can easily start trashing your buildings early since his tower outranges them and does a significant amount of damage to you at lower levels.
The majority of the game is surviving the early game without falling too far behind. Nearly any hero can be destroyed so long as you don't let them gain an early advantage. Hades is just one of those heroes that are very strong early on.
Assa, I agree that Knight mode and Blade Master mode are ridiculous. I can usually destroy a mode hero and almost always double team mode heroes. Problem with Genesic is that he can survive a major beatdown as well as hit you at ranged with his mode. If his ranged wasn't there, he'd just by a more sturdy Knight mode while in Rampage.
The best part about skipping out on modes is that you'll get far better burst and the burst damage is what matters when killing heroes/buildings.
the people that think gene is OP are the ppl that never discovered that upgrading armor is actually usefull against melee mode chars. the tower does insanely low atk per hit, so upgrading armor just a little bit will actually negate its dmg by alot. same thing goes for genesis ultimate and knight mode.
honestly, upgrade armor and u will find both the pylon and genesic a non factor. i usually always get armor after im done with shields and HP upgrades from the shop. and once i max out on str then i get even more armor. then i get a buff card armor. so by the time im master i have like 40-50 armor with a buff card and genesis and hades are virtually useless. they will barely do any dmg on you at all.
To those talking about the Dark Tower being negated by armor and being killed in one hit, I'd really like for you to show me which hero can 1 hit the Dark Tower at level 3. I'd also like to know how you can afford to buy tons of armor starting at level 3 to negate the effects of Dark Tower
at lvl 3 his dark tower only does 1 dmg per hit and has low range. medic out ranges tower, dwarven has siege which also out ranges it. arcane can nuke it. horus can prevent him from using tower altogether. etc etc. there are many ways to get around tower. the higher you level up the more of an advantage against him you have.
i myself am starting to main the new hero horus. he complety negates and hard counters melee units in general so hard that its not funny. and he aint bad at all against other heroes either.
If you're spending minerals or gas on armor early on, you're really hindering yourself a great deal. Arcane can't kill it in one hit and Horus can only stop him from using it for like 5 seconds.
For the rest of it, you're basically saying that if you want to counter Hades, you need to pre-emptively know a Hades is coming and pick a counter hero for it. Dwarven is also very weak against the tower unless you focus fire with your tanks on to the tower rather than killing creeps. By the time your early tanks actually get it down, it will have killed enough creeps in tandem with Hades' other moves that your efforts are pretty much moot and you've fallen behind in the meta.
We all know he's weak at the end-game because the higher you get, the easier it is to one shot his tower but the point of picking hades is to have a major early advantage. No one in their right mind is gonna choose to pick up armor upgrades in the first two or three levels of the game, that's insane.
Horus was amazingly op when he first came out but after his nerfs, he's pretty average now. I'd say he probably negates mode heroes still but not so much on everything else. Not to mention there's really not more than a handful of pure melee heroes anyway outside of Genesic, Lur, and Blade Hunter.
Melee heroes are purposely made strong. But they have hard counters such as Hades, Ron, Drago etc... There are 6 melee heroes (I'll leave horus out as he is a bit different). Force Fire, Genesic Hunter, Blade Hunter, Zeros, Lurcellant, Duran. They all have good and bad points. Force fire has one of the best building destroying skill (tower summon) and have highest Hp with genesic. Has blink headbutt that can slow opponent and catch up. One of the strongest early heroes in the game with potion. To play him well, u must make that early advantage to fullest.
Genesic obviously can tank crazy and has a small stun skill. His damage output is probably the lowest out of all melee heroes, but has stuns that make up for it (ulti also stuns). If you chose mode, he will be almost unbeatable end game with super high hp and mode def + option. But if u picked mode, u'll have really hard time early~mid(this is inhouse game).
Blade Hunter is one of the best hero in the game. Has a pretty big slow aoe, also his ulti is awesome that can blink strike heavy damage. His z skill also slows down so if you get hit by his skills, u won't be able to run away. His damage output is above average out of the melee class. Very good overall.
Zeros. Probably the best hero with Zava in game right now. Both his ultis are awesome, depending on the heores ur facing, you can pick the right ulti. (blink or ultimate 1 hit damage) He can lvl up really fast because of the z skill. He also has a slow, Very high damage overall. Very good throught whole stage of the game (can dominate from start to finish).
Duran is all about c skill. The farther you are from enemy, the more damage it does. It did get nerfed abit since the damage was super crazy from far distance (it could 1 hit kill low hp heroes) but both his ultis are effective (choose depending on the hero u are facing) damage output is crazy. Also because of the x skill, it can lvl up fast and dominate from start to finish. It can destroy buildings really fast with the help of potion. It got nerfed many times but he is still one of the top melee hero.
Lur-cellant. Once so called OP with his hook ulti. It did get nerfed, but it still does one of the highest combination damage in the game. If you know the right combo to do with hook, just 1 hook and combo will kill any hero till they have over 7k hp. Potion + Lur still is dangerous but depending on the hero, you can slow him and run or heroes like Duran can just upswing lur and actually can do more damage. But still Lur is good overall. His x skill when used well can kill buildings super fast. Just have to know where to stand and x on buildings.
Modes are really a joke compared to the other ulti they have. I personally think the only reason why people are having trouble is they aren't playing aggressive enough early game with potions. In high level, i think potion is a must from lvl 2 + (some heroes 3+). Just 1 kill early will give you big advantage (not that big so the opponent can't recover) and modes are pretty easy to kill early when they don't have big hp. Modes are only strong when they don't die from enemy skill combination.
Hey everyone, we just finished an inhouse. Uploading it now, definitely worth watching. Some of the best players on the NA server faced off against each other (including the great hype and assajocuna). Please leave any comments you might have.
On February 19 2011 08:47 NamelessZero wrote: On a side note, what's your opinion on Slaveswing vs Upswing as Duran, Assa?
Against blink heroes (soul hunter, zava, blade hunter, zeros etc) i would prefer upswing so i can get close to them while stunning them and kill with skill combo.
Against the rest that has no blink i would choose slaveswing as it's great against hero or buildings. Just have to know that you can kill the opponent with slave swing + potion combo against the opponent. (if the opponent has better juggle combination, upswing can be better)
ok ill take that back about modes. Something should be done about it. Last game playing draco i was 2 lvls ahead of genesic, at the xelnaga near my base with 2 spores next to me. I ulted him and the creeps when he was there. He ran up the ramp, used his mode. I went back to base with stim, ran past the turrets and so did he, and i died and he escaped. Its stupid.
Could someone tell me how to deal with GENESIC, others i can handle, but mainly him. Or maybe a replay.
Before starting a tournament or organizing one, we desperately need a home page with forum. We need patch notes, character guides, replays, general chat etc forums.
I'm not familiar with those so i would need some help from others. I can ask MaxStorm to give you special credit if anybody make a web page with forums. If i ask MaxStorm to make a custom version of a existing hero (different design or effects of skill just for the special looks) and only become selectable by one person that makes a web page of citytempest, will anybody want to make one?
Why is no one talking about Guard Fire? He's one of the most fun heroes to play imo, and really requires a bit of micro and skill unlike Genesic, Lur and Blade. Arcane too for that matter. I played a lot of Berr Nine with cloak before they removed it. just find the heroes where you have to compensate for lower dps with the right use of skills much more fun. instead of pressing F and a-clicking your opponent and almost always come out on top.
I win about 90% of my games or more by tearing through everything with guard fire. especially since he counters the dreaded 3 melee heroes.
[QUOTE]On February 19 2011 07:15 assajocuna wrote: The game is balanced towards in-house games.
Genesic obviously can tank crazy and has a small stun skill. His damage output is probably the lowest out of all melee heroes, but has stuns that make up for it
......
how can you say genesic has the lowest damage output. Oo you can drop buildings and npc heroes bunkers soooo extrem fast..
maxed out you will need 5 seconds for the main building.. Just build 8 archons ..rampage mode and spam the stun.... its ridicoulous...
you can destroy the bunker and first tweo cannons at around lvl 6-9....
If you try doing 1 on 1 between any of the melee heroes against genesic's mode, with 1 mana potion genesic won't be able to beat them until late game when he can survive skill combination (meaning when he has enough hp).
Both Blade hunter and Lurcellant does more damage per second with mode. But considering the early stage of the game, the other ulti is better for all 3 mode heroes.
Here is some pro bladehunter usage. This is the 4th time i've tried him and I find him one of the very good heroes, and the other ultis look just as good as the mods [url blocked]
On February 20 2011 05:36 Hyperi0n wrote: Here is some pro bladehunter usage. This is the 4th time i've tried him and I find him one of the very good heroes, and the other ultis look just as good as the mods [url blocked]
Hey there don't mean to be critical but could you please refrain from posting pub replays? No point watching someone kill noobs who stand there and die ;P
On February 20 2011 05:36 Hyperi0n wrote: Here is some pro bladehunter usage. This is the 4th time i've tried him and I find him one of the very good heroes, and the other ultis look just as good as the mods [url blocked]
Hey there don't mean to be critical but could you please refrain from posting pub replays? No point watching someone kill noobs who stand there and die ;P
It's not like I can do anything else, unlike the US servers I haven't been able to find many good players to play a decent game and the game is on the second page now. Care to help me?
On February 20 2011 05:20 assajocuna wrote: If you try doing 1 on 1 between any of the melee heroes against genesic's mode, with 1 mana potion genesic won't be able to beat them until late game when he can survive skill combination (meaning when he has enough hp).
Both Blade hunter and Lurcellant does more damage per second with mode. But considering the early stage of the game, the other ulti is better for all 3 mode heroes.
Assa is right. The key is to make sure you don't get jumped or caught off your guard. If you can maintain constant intel on where your biggest threats are, you can stop them badly in the early game. Against practically any other melee that chose a damage ulti rather than a mode, the mode hero is going to get smashed. The reason seems unclear to most at the moment as lower levels of play tend to show modes as a major threat. The problem that mode heroes have is that they are severely lacking in burst damage, thus making them far less powerful in a potioned melee vs melee burst.
However, unless you'd like to have your head handed to you with a bow on it, you better maintain your advantage against someone like Genesic. If you see he's picked Rampage mode and you let him maintain an equal level to you or even gain a level advantage over you, you're looking at a large threat in the endgame. You'll be forced at that point to double and even triple team that Genesic to stop him. It's a well-known fact that a Rampage Gene that's been unchecked can destroy your base on his own with very little need for backup.
Modes are more of a late-game threat than early. You can shut them down early and gain major advantages after destroying their buildings for the gas advantage.
On February 20 2011 05:36 Hyperi0n wrote: Here is some pro bladehunter usage. This is the 4th time i've tried him and I find him one of the very good heroes, and the other ultis look just as good as the mods [url blocked]
That's not really a pro replay. That's you picking a hero you've only played 4 times and trashing a bunch of noobs who stand there to take the beatdown. Start up the Cityoftempest channel on your server and promote the popularity of the game. Teach some people or refer them here to this forum thread and you'll start to have more competition.
On February 19 2011 18:52 TobyOrNotToby wrote: I am tired of terrible pub teammates, looking for some decent people to play with; say your #1 or 2 in most of your games.
PS I dont really mind modes, have not been owned by one lately.
TobyOrNotTob (no y) 930
Yesterday i played against you! You're team had arcane and abel. I really enjoy it. gg, i would like to paly with you again. ^^
Could he change the character color that is the same color as the units? I use the minimap to find players quickly both on my team and on the enemy team and the players that have colors that match the marines gives them an easy advantage over players in colors like green or blue
Yesterday i played against you! You're team had arcane and abel. I really enjoy it. gg, i would like to paly with you again. ^^
Ah that 1, i was playing with starrk, but he wasn't in that game. He is really good btw (with guard fire haven't seen him play else) But abel tends to work decently well for me. Going random doesn't work that well, since every hero plays very differently. Would like to play with you too just add me and send a message.
Yesterday i played against you! You're team had arcane and abel. I really enjoy it. gg, i would like to paly with you again. ^^
Ah that 1, i was playing with starrk, but he wasn't in that game. He is really good btw (with guard fire haven't seen him play else) But abel tends to work decently well for me. Going random doesn't work that well, since every hero plays very differently. Would like to play with you too just add me and send a message.
I think you used Hades! I had Abel too and we played almost 1 h 30m. However i will add you.^^
Yesterday i played against you! You're team had arcane and abel. I really enjoy it. gg, i would like to paly with you again. ^^
Ah that 1, i was playing with starrk, but he wasn't in that game. He is really good btw (with guard fire haven't seen him play else) But abel tends to work decently well for me. Going random doesn't work that well, since every hero plays very differently. Would like to play with you too just add me and send a message.
I think you used Hades! I had Abel too and we played almost 1 h 30m. However i will add you.^^
Ah hades is a baller;
I do have a question about him though: How much damage does his pylon actually do? It says something like 10 but it rapes anything, it is very deceiving. Is it that the attack speed is very fast or am i missing something?
This story show the lvl of pub games. I was playing vs a team of Hades, LurCelland and GeneSic Hunter. Playing Phantom Gazette, they were whining and bitching about me playing like a scrub for not facing them 1v1 head on; and that I was scared of their skill. (the whining was mainly the Lur and GeneSic) But on what lvl does it mean that your the most newbie player when you use your hero effectively.
Btw did i see correctly that Rampage mode decreases damage taken. And i do agree that you need to balance the game towards inhouse play, but on pub lvl genesic is a big issue, since if i do not lane against him he gets a few early kills and gets out of control.
Zedait's ulti has to be done before the enemy moves in. It takes around a second to stop the opponent in the field. If the opponent has 6 movement speed or above, you really need to use it way ahead expecting where they will come to. Because of this, Zedait is hard against fast heroes.
I'll check on the tooltip thanks.
Hades pylons do damage per 0.1 second i believe. It starts very low... so 10 damage is probably when you invested a lot of points into str.
It would be dumb to 1v1 with Phantom against melee characters unless your level is way ahead of them and u've bought plenty of items. Norally Phantom is used to help your teammates on other lanes since u can cliffwalk fast.
Rampage does increase armor as we've tried without the armor option in korean server 2-3 months ago... and the mode became completely useless so had to change back to default (which is the way it is now). I think once we get the site going on and get guides up for everyone to read, we'll see pub lvl increase and get to know how to deal with modes.
I here so much about modes. Especially genesic mode when his mode is the weakest out of all(only advantage being ranged).
There are so many better heroes excluding melee heroes. All the summon type heroes are good against modes, Soul hunter obviously has ice ulti that dispells modes. Dark Fact can slow modes to death. Zedait can ulti + c skill and if it can't kill the hero u can turn on booster and run away easily (fastest hero in game). Phantom and Bagullion can obviously cliffwalk run away most of the times and just gank whenever u want. Melee character without the damaging ulti has so many weakness. Also Guard fire can ulti trap and summon flametower surrounding enemy. Zava can outdamage any mode heroes until late game. Janne can either trap with force field and nuke him to death or trap him when he comes to the cliff with small force fields, or even defensive force fields make melee modes useless.
People should try and learn other characters i mean there are so many good characters other than melee modes. Actually if you want to get good at this game, i recommend not to play modes. If you want to play melee pick the damage ulti, or try ranged heroes so it can help you practice aiming skills.
I've actually seen some amazing Janne forcefield usage in the Korean replay pack that you sent and highly recommend that people watch it as well. It's absolutely brutal against melee and was used in the end-game to prevent three melee heroes from getting to the final building by forcefielding every single entrance.
I do, however, disagree with the statement that it'd be suicide to face Phantom 1v1 as a melee on even terms as I've played against iDra with him using Phantom and I was using Blade Hunter and Zeros. In the early game with some well-placed EMP shots, you can stop most melee in their tracks along with your cliffwalking. He was often able to force a potion as well and simply retreat.
That's a bit hard to compare though as iDra is probably the best Phantom on the NA server at the moment and has spent countless days perfecting his build and technique.
On February 21 2011 02:31 NamelessZero wrote: I've actually seen some amazing Janne forcefield usage in the Korean replay pack that you sent and highly recommend that people watch it as well. It's absolutely brutal against melee and was used in the end-game to prevent three melee heroes from getting to the final building by forcefielding every single entrance.
I do, however, disagree with the statement that it'd be suicide to face Phantom 1v1 as a melee on even terms as I've played against iDra with him using Phantom and I was using Blade Hunter and Zeros. In the early game with some well-placed EMP shots, you can stop most melee in their tracks along with your cliffwalking. He was often able to force a potion as well and simply retreat.
That's a bit hard to compare though as iDra is probably the best Phantom on the NA server at the moment and has spent countless days perfecting his build and technique.
Idra? The Gracken or someone else? =P
On February 20 2011 08:35 starrk wrote: Hyperion, i consider myself adept at this game. if you give me your character-code we can play some games.
i really like tosh vs all kinds of melee heroes. the pushback skill is just godlike (one of my favourites in the entire game, because its so versatile). another nice thing are turret walls, since tosh can fit through 1 hex, while all other heroes cant. so u can just totally block entrances/ramps with the turrets while trying to snipe towers with the ultimate skill.
and i just wanna ask what was bugging me quite a lot: does armor only reduce normal attacks or also has an impact on skills? since i was always unsure if it was better to max health or armor after dmg and speed.
Just played 1on1 against hyperion, he raped me with blade hunter, then i tried blade hunter, and the burst destroys modes like crazy if u take the non mode ulti. LurCellant is horrible against modes, found that out.
btw Hyperion im sorry but I am barely on for the rest of the week since i will be staying over at some friends since it is holyday here
Against non long range heroes the drawen king is so sick. Is it really suppose to be balanced?
Its bad design if there are heroes that you cannot do a shit about with specific heroes. Like genesic against some and drawen king against some.
I also hate genesic since its super boring to play and its so imba most of the time. I think you should seriosly think of altering genesics skills. I wouldnt mind making the rampage mode a bit different (without inceptors) and maybe add a new skill to him to make it more usefull/micro intensive
Nothing wrong with dwarven king, he gotta place tanks well so u can not aoe them down, he himself is very weak. You have to catch him early or when he is setting up
On February 21 2011 07:47 burne- wrote: You also havent commented on the drawen king.
Against non long range heroes the drawen king is so sick. Is it really suppose to be balanced?
Its bad design if there are heroes that you cannot do a shit about with specific heroes. Like genesic against some and drawen king against some.
I also hate genesic since its super boring to play and its so imba most of the time. I think you should seriosly think of altering genesics skills. I wouldnt mind making the rampage mode a bit different (without inceptors) and maybe add a new skill to him to make it more usefull/micro intensive
Game is balanced around teams, not individuals. That said, most heroes can deal with every situation. Some are just poorer at it than others, meaning there's a limit to how well you can respond to a given situation. For example, you can use Lur Cellant to beat Dwarven King spamming tanks, but he's much worse at it than Drago or Abel who can kill the tanks from a long distance.
I've had a few instances where I have timed when and where to place zedait's ultimate and people still literally walk into it and straight through it with no slow down or any delay..maybe i just have bad luck
On February 21 2011 06:46 Lucius22 wrote: i really like tosh vs all kinds of melee heroes. the pushback skill is just godlike (one of my favourites in the entire game, because its so versatile). another nice thing are turret walls, since tosh can fit through 1 hex, while all other heroes cant. so u can just totally block entrances/ramps with the turrets while trying to snipe towers with the ultimate skill.
and i just wanna ask what was bugging me quite a lot: does armor only reduce normal attacks or also has an impact on skills? since i was always unsure if it was better to max health or armor after dmg and speed.
I'm actually seeing a lot more play with the turrets lately including some insane mouse accuracy that traps enemy heroes in a circle of turrets. Being that they're invincible turrets and do crazy damage, that's pretty much a guaranteed death for many heroes.
I want to say armor reduces both. If it didn't there wouldn't be much of a point in focusing on armor for heroes like Janne. I believe it's percentage based as well and that you can get something along the lines of 50% Damage Reduction with maxed armor.
On February 21 2011 10:47 Honker Jones wrote: This is definitely a team game. If your going to play a 1v1, there are obviously going to be heroes that will inevitably crush the other players.
Also there is terrain for a reason; there are the xel'naga's for a reason, all for awareness and escaping and ambushing, if u combine that with teamplay, u can blink away every time as heroes like Soul Hunter. Say some1 sits on the high ground then u can blink there.
On February 21 2011 08:46 0mar wrote: For example, you can use Lur Cellant to beat Dwarven King spamming tanks, but he's much worse at it than Drago or Abel who can kill the tanks from a long distance.
You can drag him out of his tanks with nightmare hook ^^ thats a lot of fun^^
anyone else actually using Horus basides me? ive found that this dude is extremly good at 1v1 hero killing and his ultimate is a good semi support skill for the team as well. it also doubes as a very good retreat skill for the entire team because of its large AoE.
but it seems as i am the only one who picks him/knows how to use him in most of the games ive played so far and as a result dominate with him. the dude kills mode heroes extremly well in particular.
Genesic Hunter rampage mode has been nerfed. Normally every modes have 25% armor added. But since Genesic hunter's mode is the only one that is ranged, we removed the 25% armor effect. Meaning he'll take 25% more damage compared to before nerf.
Horus if used well is definately the best 1 vs 1 hero right now. How to deal him? He has to auto attack for leveling up, so keep attacking him and try to stay ahead in level. If you can survive the few seconds from his curse, you'll most likely outburst him. If not, u can always carry and health potion since Horus's damage output is pretty weak.
On February 21 2011 10:47 Honker Jones wrote: This is definitely a team game. If your going to play a 1v1, there are obviously going to be heroes that will inevitably crush the other players.
Also there is terrain for a reason; there are the xel'naga's for a reason, all for awareness and escaping and ambushing, if u combine that with teamplay, u can blink away every time as heroes like Soul Hunter. Say some1 sits on the high ground then u can blink there.
On February 21 2011 08:46 0mar wrote: For example, you can use Lur Cellant to beat Dwarven King spamming tanks, but he's much worse at it than Drago or Abel who can kill the tanks from a long distance.
You can drag him out of his tanks with nightmare hook ^^ thats a lot of fun^^
Since when is Dwarven King not going to be on the high ground with tower vision and tanks spammed all over the place so you can get close enough to hook him?
He'll watch you get close to him, the tanks will attack and slow en masse and he'll nuke you to slow you even more. You'd better shut him down hard in the early game because in the mid-game with full tanks and a sound strategy, you're pretty much just hoping that he's gonna screw up if you're on even terms in level.
A good DK is going to keep the high ground, spread the tanks, and keep multiple spots of vision between the tower and his scan. Good luck breaking through the tanks before you're slowed/nuked to death to get your hook on him. Also, being that he's going to abuse the terrain, your hook won't pull him off of a cliff, you're gonna have to expose yourself and run around to a ramp, by which point, a good DK will likely have cut you down without a chance for your Lur to approach any closer.
Not to mention the range on the hook is fairly limited so in order to drag him outside of tank range, you'll have to hook while running away from the tanks to get the extra drag range.
There are many ways to deal with Dwarven king. One is going backward. He'll most likely be near your base spreading tanks and staying near the tower. Go backward towards his base get high to the cliffs with towers and go backside. Easier to get near him with vision.
He is pretty weak without tanks so try to get him before he comes near your base and summons tanks. It'll be automatic kill if you can get him without tanks.
Try to stop him from leveling up. Get early kill and it'll be much easier. He doesnt have any running ability so if you can get close to him it's easy kill.
If you have to get him through the tanks, you can drink one hp potion going through tanks.
On February 22 2011 08:14 assajocuna wrote: Horus if used well is definately the best 1 vs 1 hero right now. How to deal him? He has to auto attack for leveling up, so keep attacking him and try to stay ahead in level. If you can survive the few seconds from his curse, you'll most likely outburst him. If not, u can always carry and health potion since Horus's damage output is pretty weak.
he can get his aoe auto atk at lvl 1 if u add 2 points into mana which helps a ton with his lvling. its also a pierce atk so most chars wont get near him even at that low of a lvl.
ive used him alot since day 1 of his release and i must say the only way for ppl to actually beat me is to either sneak up on me and get a good drop on me before i silence them OR for them to gank me. any other way wil end up in them being dead within 5 seconds.
There has been a lot of changes past 2 days. I'll write briefly.
Genesic Hunter - In mode, the 25% additional armor effect is now gone.
Bry - Increased movement speed to 3.5 (before was 3.25) - Defensive Field removed - Can do both "Strengthen Saint N-Bomb" and "Radioactive Fire Research" on stat page. - some trigger fix
Hades - Dark Tower view range reduced. 10 -> 9 - Dark Tower cannot attack through fog (big nerf)
Duran - Explosive Blaster cooltime increased. 1 - > 2 - Upswing cool time decreased. 10 -> 7.5
Ron - Acid Explosion cool time reduced. 15 -> 10 - normal attack radius increased. 0.25~0.75 -> 0.5~1.1
Zeros - Dark True Strike coold time increased. 10 -> 15 - normal attack damage decreased. 25 -> 22
Lurcellant - Spect Laser coold time increased. 1 -> 1.5
Force Fire - Flame Bolt animation time has been shortened (it flies towards location much faster than b4) - corrected Flame Bolt damage not damaging correctly as the tooltip says.
Dwarven King - Dwarf Cannon (the tank) damage decreased. 60 -> 50 - Dwarf Cannon damage upgrade from stat decreased. 12 -> 10
-All melee characters with charge skill can now use charge skill from level 1. (before level 0) -Health Potion HP regen rate increased. 5 -> 10
Looks like all the top tier characters got nerfed. Health Potion can be very effective now for characters like Gunzord against mana potion.
On February 22 2011 19:22 assajocuna wrote: There has been a lot of changes past 2 days. I'll write briefly.
Genesic Hunter - In mode, the 25% additional armor effect is now gone.
Bry - Increased movement speed to 3.5 (before was 3.25) - Defensive Field removed - Can do both "Strengthen Saint N-Bomb" and "Radioactive Fire Research" on stat page. - some trigger fix
Hades - Dark Tower view range reduced. 10 -> 9 - Dark Tower cannot attack through fog (big nerf)
Duran - Explosive Blaster cooltime increased. 1 - > 2 - Upswing cool time decreased. 10 -> 7.5
Ron - Acid Explosion cool time reduced. 15 -> 10 - normal attack radius increased. 0.25~0.75 -> 0.5~1.1
Zeros - Dark True Strike coold time increased. 10 -> 15 - normal attack damage decreased. 25 -> 22
Lurcellant - Spect Laser coold time increased. 1 -> 1.5
Force Fire - Flame Bolt animation time has been shortened (it flies towards location much faster than b4) - corrected Flame Bolt damage not damaging correctly as the tooltip says.
Dwarven King - Dwarf Cannon (the tank) damage decreased. 60 -> 50 - Dwarf Cannon damage upgrade from stat decreased. 12 -> 10
-All melee characters with charge skill can now use charge skill from level 1. (before level 0) -Health Potion HP regen rate increased. 5 -> 10
Looks like all the top tier characters got nerfed. Health Potion can be very effective now for characters like Gunzord against mana potion.
thx so much for the pach notes, would like to see more of these
Is it just me or was Brai (Bry)'s poison buffed a lot? I went a game 29 and 1 against in a 1v3, and the poison did most of the killing. My ulti did ~1/3-1/4 of his HP, and then the poison just wore him down.
This isn't a bad thing, just asking if it got buffed.
Looks like a lot has changed, didnt get a chance to play since monday. Hope that buildings terrain and effects is different than i think it is or that i like the changes. The hero patches sound good. Zeros will still be overpowered against non moving pub players, they are even too stupid to use him well.
Hyperion: Have you played some inhouse yet, were they good games? Looking forward to playing again especially with the new patch
this is got to be one of the most epic games i've ever had. xD haha i hope this makes people use the vampire guy more he's so awesome Too bad everyone thinks he sucks. oh well their losses
We just played an in house game with the brand new patch uploaded about an hour ago. There are an incredible amount of bugs.
Players aren't gaining mana correctly when leveling Mobs do a ton of damage Drago is now a god Idra playing reaper is OP (lol not a bug, just saying, nerf idra) Possible Zava nerf Mana buying doesn't give correct mana Funky mana amounts (232, 292, etc) Idra had an issue with buying attack power early game (that's how he gets so many early kills too!)
Please fix bugs, post patch notes, or revert to old patch. Thanks!
Looks like a lot of hero stats are changed. All the melee hero now has either 1 or 2 mana star. Meaning less mana to start with, less mana regen, less total mana and mana regen gain from mana stat.
Melee heroes getting harder every patch. (no wonder. they were the top tier in game till now) High magic class gaining a lot from recent stat re-adjustment patch. Soul Hunter is now deadly in the beginning.
There are a lot of changes to mana stats right now. It's test period so it's in adjustment stage.
Attack power up pack now gives you 25%+ attack power. So it'll be weak early when you have low attack power. But it'll be really strong late stage in game.
Tell me more about this patch. Talking with maxstorm right now.
PS. Thanks for reporting this issue. MaxStorm found a bug on the script concerning attack up + mana issue. He fixed it and uploading new version soon so it'll be different now.
PS2. And yes. the new patch has this -> no mana up on level up. you have to either buy mana pack from store or put mana stat up.
I just played soul hunter and I didn't notice anything different besides 20 extra mana in the beginning. I did notice I was lvl 15 and barely had enough mana for 2 spells (without buying mana). I also noticed that I was dying in nearly one shot with 2.5k shield and 2k health against drago's ONE spell.
There's no 4.5k damage spell in game. The highest is dark true strike from Zeros doing 3500 on full atk power. Second would be the new patched Force Fire ulti done close range doing 750x4=3000 The new system for Force Fire ulti is it does more damage depending on the range. Closer = more damage. 750x4 -> 750x3 -> x2 -> x1 being the farthest.
Drago is strong but he probably hit you with all his combinations to do that much damage.
You won't notice much difference playing soul hunter. But it's the other characters, especially melee type that got the big mana nerf. So it's much easier for Soul hunter to face other heroes. He is now the fastest line pusher in game.
Darn I would go without mana point usage and use the extra 5 points elsewhere...This basically forces the 5 mana points, but prevents end game spam. Interesting tradeoff.
There will be another patch soon. I think he is giving the mana gain from level up back. A lot of complaints came up in korean server so he is resetting that part.
Hey assa, do you have an update on whats going on with the site, you were talking about it, and i haven't seen anything about it since, is it in the making, when can we expect it? I am really digging this game, played some inhouse 2v2 today and it is awesome.
On February 27 2011 14:10 Deken wrote: We just played a few in house games. The games were pretty even and ended up in close victories. GG all! Players:
On February 27 2011 14:10 Deken wrote: We just played a few in house games. The games were pretty even and ended up in close victories. GG all! Players:
Mana regeneration rate has been changed. Characters with 1 mana property now has 1.0 regen rate from start. Character with 5 mana property (such as soul hunter) is still the same (or almost) at around 1.6 regen rate.
Before the recent patch, 1 mana property had 1.5 regen rate and 5 mana at 1.7 regen rate.
All the melee heroes with charge skill has 1 mana property, so they will have harder time early game.
Also another new patch coming soon, the EXP truck will get regenerated once the 2 trucks on one side has been destroyed. Will take 85 sec to regen. Also exp went up. Before it was 10 exp, now it'll be 15. Truck hp is 2000. 15 is quite a lot so don't forget to destroy trucks when you see them. This patch will be up soon.
This is quite a change, thanks for the patch notes. This will definitely change the early game melee style. Also I love the respawning trucks, and the increased exp, from them.
Damn it it baffles me I dont understand how the "point bonus " on dark fact works or the 10% damage per hit thing. Please do some explaining on this assajocuna cuz i cant figure it out. also claria storm says it blocks skills when in the storm but thats not the case.
Was testing in the same game that hyperion was talking about, but i was testing guard fire, and his x skill say 5 times 30 dmg on lvl 0 attack, but if you hit at their feet it does 78 damage, and the 78 damage is not fire, since I also got results like 146 damage... could anyone tell me how it works.
Also his c states 75 dmg initial and 20 times 5 dmg over time. Totalling 175 damage but it does 270 dmg every time. Wtf am i missing?
I would like to start off by saying that i love this game and i have a lot of fun playing this with my friends. I want to help this game grow and give some suggestions on balancing the heroes
Some balance issues that i think need adjusting ASAP are: 1. Mass Turrets that cannot be targeted (Burr Nine, Phantom Gazette, etc.) -A solution to this could be limiting the amount they can drop or lowering the damage 2. Knight Mode needs some adjusting -A solution to this could be doing more damage but lowering their defense
Some balance issues that i think need adjusting ASAP are: 1. Mass Turrets that cannot be targeted (Burr Nine, Phantom Gazette, etc.) -A solution to this could be limiting the amount they can drop or lowering the damage
Turret numbers are limited already, I wanna say its around 10 or so max. Its the main way for heroes like Gazette to kill people by surrounding them considering his nuke doesn't do a ton of damage like others and he has no damage over time spells. He must take advantage of his speed and surround them with turrets
On February 28 2011 08:02 Alchemist1212 wrote: I would like to start off by saying that i love this game and i have a lot of fun playing this with my friends. I want to help this game grow and give some suggestions on balancing the heroes
Some balance issues that i think need adjusting ASAP are: 1. Mass Turrets that cannot be targeted (Burr Nine, Phantom Gazette, etc.) -A solution to this could be limiting the amount they can drop or lowering the damage 2. Knight Mode needs some adjusting -A solution to this could be doing more damage but lowering their defense
1. You got to play around the turrets. It's frustrating sometimes, but almost every hero has way around it, even if it's just run.
2. Knight mode is actually pretty medicore. It wrecks pubs because everything wrecks pubs. Once you get the hang of nightmare hook, you'll never go back because you can kill heroes much more often than with just knight mode. The key to beating knight mode is snaring and avoiding him until it runs out then kill him. Positioning is like 75% of the battle in this game. You can't tank knight mode, but you can reduce his DPS by forcing him to chase you, thus making him attack longer than his cooldown is.
The key to this game is all about positioning and attack first.
You have to always use watch towers before going forward. Even if they are in knight mode, if you attack them first, you'll have the advantage. I never lost against knight mode when i attacked first with almost any hero you can think of. (end game it's a bit different tho. modes are crazy strong end game because of their hp)
Also try to push towers asap. Team that push first will get the exp advantage and it's quite big early stage of the game. Don't let your opponent push creeps towards your tower. If they kill your creep so fast that you can't stop them coming towards your tower, tank them right before they are close to getting hit by your turret. You don't want any creep to get killed by turrets. You want all the exp you can get. When you tank them, be cautious of where you opponent might be. Try to stay as far away from watch tower.
If you lose the early game, and get pushed, get killed a lot, you need to group and push safely. I would say all your teammates should gather together when you are around level 8~11 and push altogether. Try giving the building last hit to the carrier of your team for extra exp. I haven't seen that in NA server yet, but it's very important. Ofcourse this won't happen in pub games, but if you play inhouse games, think of this. Pick the hero in your team that has least counters as carrier. Any good team in korea during tournament always think of this before going into play.
Also some little changes. EXP Truck regen rate changed from 85 sec -> 200 sec. I guess 85 sec was too short. Looks like barrack has been removed and replaced by Creep.
Next big patch will be related to Chimera. (will get new skill perhaps?) This new patch might make her pretty good now.
Chimera is bad at high levels? I've only played pubs which are obviously a joke, but I've always imagined that Chimera is pretty insane at high levels, with ling spam combined with spine crawler spam and the ult that slows to some degree.
I still think there is something wrong with Zedait's ult. from time to time. I just played a game where Krizard and Dwarf King were able to run straight through it multiple times. So just for clarification, does it have to be cast ON them for it to trap them? If they run INTO it do they get stuck?
Chimera isn't bad but her lings have very low hp. (even if you max your hp stat, they are like 1300 or something) and spine crawlers are slow. (they used to walk super fast) She has 2nd low hp to start the game. So she has high chance of dying early. Heroes with low hp like her such as Soul hunter and Janne has escaping tools but she doesn't.
If she can survive that early stage and don't fall behind in level, she can be strong. It's just that doesn't happen often.
It's takes 1 sec for them to stop the hero. If the opponent is moving, try to use it on the spot few steps ahead in their walking direction. Once they go in, they can't move. It's easier early stage to trap them since everybody is slow. But after mid stage, everyone walks fast so it's harder to trap and you have to position the ulti 2-3 steps ahead.
Why are there so many unimportant changes to the map? What is the use of removing the barracks? Could you please answer the questions of me and Hyperi0n?
I'm guessing that they removed the barracks and kept the commander outside, along with the turrets, to make it a bit harder to break the first line of defense early on. Or to promote more team play to bust through it. It also kills the creeps much better when you push, enforcing the idea to push the creeps to your opponents base so less exp for opponents. Just my theory but I did really like how the barracks looked on the map.
Well i can't say much about barracks. I heard he wanted the game to end faster. And since you have truck regen, you will still get enough exp.
About damages from skills not doing same as tooltip. It's because those damage information from tooltip most of the times tell you the damage of 1 projectile. It can be multiplied on buildings easy since buildings have large radius and can hit multiple projectile. (such as Dark Fact's c skill that does z projectile) The skills you said shoots out multiple projectiles and if it hits more than one (it overlaps) it'll do multiple damage. There are many skills that do overlapping damages. Especially on buildings.
The Dark fact skill claria storm makes the opponent inside the field unable to use certain skills like blink. I'm not quite sure about the 10%. I think every time you get hit by opponent you get temporary +10% bonus armor? I haven't tested that out so i'm not quite sure.
On February 28 2011 19:52 assajocuna wrote: Well i can't say much about barracks. I heard he wanted the game to end faster. And since you have truck regen, you will still get enough exp.
About damages from skills not doing same as tooltip. It's because those damage information from tooltip most of the times tell you the damage of 1 projectile. It can be multiplied on buildings easy since buildings have large radius and can hit multiple projectile. (such as Dark Fact's c skill that does z projectile) The skills you said shoots out multiple projectiles and if it hits more than one (it overlaps) it'll do multiple damage. There are many skills that do overlapping damages. Especially on buildings.
I know all this. I've figured out all the skills damage and the calculation methods. It's just most of dark facts skills that remain an enigma to me, please get some info
The 10% part was my mistake. Every time you land an attack to opponent, they will receive 10% more damage for the next 4-5 seconds. It can be stacked up. Other than that your other question was the claria storm. Ppl inside the storm cannot use certain spells such as blink or defensive shield. I do believe you can teleport since that's item skill. I guess that's it? The c skill that shoots out Z projectile has 3 big projectiles stacked. The upper - part and / middle part and - bottom part. So on building it would do many stacked damage (best building destroying skill for dark fact). On heroes, the best you can hit would be 2 stacked parts inbetween the section - and /. Each -, /, - part is also stacked. The x skill shoots out multiple projectiles and they do damage every time they bounce. That's why it's effect on killing creeps (low mana cost) and buildings. I guess that's it for Dark Fact.
It's official, Soul Hunter is worthless as a PvP character. The freeze spell's radius is so small, a turtle can dodge it. As long as the opponent keeps moving, Soul Hunter literally can not hurt the enemy as almost all of its spells are area damage over time.
How you fight with Soul hunter is like this. Always stay in watch towers, walk in between watch towers. Once you see enemy coming nearby, cast freeze, teleport close, cast b the slow aoe, cast v soul storm, and do z that slow down another 30% or so. Before doing all this, always cast t for extra damage. This combination will do around 4k damage or more. If they don't die, just cast another slow into soul storm. The z and b slow makes them walk at 30% their normal speed so it shouldn't be hard to land soul storm. If they go after you, the best way to evade is blink towards the location they were on and cast slow on them -> soul storm.
It sounds easy but you have to practice. Soul Hunter is deadly since he gets to use soul storm from level 1 and can push really fast.
On February 28 2011 23:31 assajocuna wrote: The 10% part was my mistake. Every time you land an attack to opponent, they will receive 10% more damage for the next 4-5 seconds. It can be stacked up. Other than that your other question was the claria storm. Ppl inside the storm cannot use certain spells such as blink or defensive shield. I do believe you can teleport since that's item skill. I guess that's it? The c skill that shoots out Z projectile has 3 big projectiles stacked. The upper - part and / middle part and - bottom part. So on building it would do many stacked damage (best building destroying skill for dark fact). On heroes, the best you can hit would be 2 stacked parts inbetween the section - and /. Each -, /, - part is also stacked. The x skill shoots out multiple projectiles and they do damage every time they bounce. That's why it's effect on killing creeps (low mana cost) and buildings. I guess that's it for Dark Fact.
Indeed that explains the 10% thing . Is it skills or normal attacks or both that trigger it? I knew the rest, that just leave the z skills "point bonus".
Any attack triggers it. I don't get the z skill point bonus? Dark Fact's z skill is the bounce off skill isn't it? Does it say point bonus in the tooltip? Maybe it's a misplaced information.
I have been an in-house games where MaxPro completely dominated with Soul Hunter.
I tried playing in-house with soul hunter and didn't quite dominate, but I focused on buildings instead and although the other team was ahead in kills and could own me, I was able to burst their buildings down before they could destroy mine and we ended up winning. It helps to have teammates that are hero killers like blade hunter/zava as well.
Assa's strategy works well. I usually can't spike a hero down quickly, but I use the amplify, slow + dmg increase, aoe ult (not freeze because slow is better for buildings), 30% slow, storm. I then proceed to follow them if they run and spam storm. IMO your time is much better spent with Soul Hunter destroying buildings though.
Good to get some of the details behind dark fact! Thanks assa!
Please bring back the color coding for each character! I can't tell who is who on the mini map anymore which will make it very difficult to run away from people like ajunior
I'm not sure about the color coding actually. It's hard to remember which colors are which so the new colors are easy to work with but at the same time, u get accustomed to it a little way in and know which colors mean which person specifically. Maybe a balance between the two - lighter colors on one team, darker colors on the other team? Dont know how possible this is.
Another thing about the game; I have no problem with almost any mechanics of the game now - I feel almost any hero can be played well and it depends on the player but the one thing I don't like is any structure that can be laid down and is invulnerable like those little turrets and the crawlers etc etc. They aren't a hindrance when it comes to pvp...but they are really unbalanced when it comes to attacking buildings and defensive mobiles. They can run in, lay them down - and they do pretty significant damage - then run out, make a circle, rinse and repeat and unless you slow them and then kill them, it really puts little penalty on the player to do that kind of damage to your defenses.
Otherwise this game is awesome and I'm flattered to be in a few of the "high level" replays posted to this thread so far .
Those unbreakable turrets are annoying indeed, and characters like phantom can just sneak in and setup turret for fast exp without much danger. I guess the only answer to this is when there's opponent hero trying to setup towers to destroy our building, you should team up 3 and counter push faster.
There was once a time when those summonable turrets did less damage. But it made characters like Phantom, Gunzord, Berrnine really weak. But that was when you didn't have ulti. So maybe i can ask MaxStorm for some adjustment. I doubt he'll change right away since it took some time for him to change the rampage mode for genesic.
I'm thinking of arranging a small tournament just to gather and have fun around the end of this month(to give people enough time to practice with teams). I would say around 26th of this month which is Saturday. Any thoughts on this? When it's confirmed, i'll ask Max to put it up big on loading screen. Also the forum for this game will open next week. There's like nothing on it right now so i have to gather all the ingame screenshots for mechanics and hero guides. Lots of work to do. Thanks to noveyak for helping me out If anybody wants to help me out on writing hero introduction on their skills etc, or writing guides, i would love any help
I am best with Drago but know Zava pretty well. I can write a guide for both but I'm sure Hype would like to write a Zava intro/guide. I'll write it right now in fact and some of the aspects can carry over to other heroes.
Drago: First thing (as with all heroes) put up mana with your first mineral ASAP. This game is a race so speed is everything. highlight your hero, press TAB then R to put up mana, then start moving to your lane and set them to ctrl group. You will be able to press T to use your speed/damage upgrade before you get to the experience capsules (vespene boxes). I kill both of them and then go to creeps but some people kill one. Keep spamming T. With Zava i only kill one box and this is important but drago has no splash on his attack so it doesnt matter.
Important for most heroes - do not waste time attacking other heroes at level 1-3'ish. You will slow yourself down. Only do this if they are weak and u can finish them off.
Once you kill the marines you will level - put up mana twice and start using your z attack once the marines show up. You should let your mana get close to full while waiting for the new set of marines to arrive then u can finish them off quickly. The X attack is great when there are 3-4 big creeps remaining cause it jumps and does damage to 4 total creeps. Dont waste it on small marines.
The next level will depend on what hero you are going against. You can either do mana twice again to cap your total spent on mana or do mana once and get spores right away. Spores are really good to hassle players that dont have a big range and forces them to stay back and u can place them on either side to really keep them back...the spores will attack (with splash) on the creeps and keep the other hero under pressure. If its a hero with big range or a melee thats going to just run in, kill and run back out you can do mana x 2 and get spores later on. If you do mana/spore then your next level is mana/damage. After this put up all damage until maxed (ulti at 550 mana, see note later) and then do vision, speed and then hp.
Use your vespene to get mana regen mostly at first but if you have 1250 and you are heading to town, get regen and mana so u dont waste the trip. I usually get all mana regen first, then mana, then speed shield and hp. attack damage/range, shield regen and hp regen. Scattered in between I will get potions depending on the hero u r against and how much vespene u have when giong to the store...try to spend as much as possible at each trip to be efficient. The game is about speed and efficiency.
Once I get to 550 mana, I get his ulti because now I can spam F/V which are ulti and second strongest attack that will hit at the same time and do a TON of damage to someone if they are in the middle of it. When you get to 750, you can do F/V/C which will then send your spikes at them even if they run away...great for zedait and hades who like to boost and speed off. your spike will catch them and often kill them.
You want to use your spores very very efficiently. I myself forget to use them as best as I can. When u are going to heal/buy stuff..drop one randomly in the lane..it will get u vespene. In late game drop them as u are running around. as creeps go by it will kill them quickly cause you are really strong at that point and your spores scale with you. So if u drop one in each lane, u will get a ton of vespene while u are off fighting with your buddies.
There are very specific places you should place the spores to attack defensive structures. There's a FINE line between too close and too far...literally one movement to the front will get hit by them and one move back will not hit them. I can get a screen pic to show but just mess around and figure out what range that is. You want to be close to your spores when they kill a structure or u wont get xp for it - this is important. I'm not sure *exactly* how it works because sometimes i get xp when im not near them and i think it might be because i hit the creep/building and it remembers that? I don't know. either way stay close to your spores when a building is about to die.
the C attack which is the spikes is very important...u dont need to aim, u dont need to stop moving, just press it and it will track alot of targets near by. As you are retreating, keep spamming C to get both creeps and heroes. As you are moving towards your allies to assist, hit C as u run past creeps. It wont slow u down and u will get alot of xp/vespene.
other than that, just be super efficient, always keep moving and attacking and NEVER unless you are at home healing - never let your mana get maxed out and u arent using it. U need to be efficient and be fast with any hero in order to stay ahead of the other players.
Addition - general game play. Use the high ground to your advantage, ESPECIALLY the person playing the middle lane. Use the xelnaga watch towers to your advantage, more so once the game really gets going and hero battles become more common. In a fairly tight game, usually the person to hit first will win, especially if the other person has no idea you are coming.Around level 10-12, you should start flowing as a team and moving together and supporting eachother. Attack experience capsules and the bigger experience things while you are waiting for mana to regenerate or waiting for creeps to come. Always keep doing something helpful. Learn to keep an eye on the mini map and watch for battles, if your ally is fighting someone, you can run in and throw a spelll to help them, or finish them off if the enemy kills your ally. Also, very important, this can work against you. If you are fighting someone and kill them with a little hp left, get your butt back to heal because Hype will come kill you. I mean anybody, but Hype is a scavenging little Bi....anyway, nevermind that . and have fun!
Nice thanks for all the help guys. The site will open soon (there's nothing right now) i'm writing the general mechanics right now with pictures explaining most of the stuff.
I'll write more about tournament details later when the forum opens.
PS. i've checked on korean forum to see what they think about turrets. the thing is there are characters like sylon and dark fact that does 2-3 times faster in destroying buildings compared to turrets so it's quite hard to balance it off. Before, it was like all the summonable things that kills creeps or buildings, you would only receive 50% exp. Maybe i can ask MaxStorm for that again. Just on the buildings, since getting 50% from the creeps is too much.
I really think Phantom Gazette is underpowered, especially if you compare his towers to those of Force Fire or Guard Fire. Yes, I know Phantom's towers should be less powerful to compensate for his insane mobility, but if I'm at max dmg and setup all turrets near some enemy force and DONT kill them, I get the feeling something's wrong. Just a slight damage buff, 30-40% would do the trick. Also, his ultimate is not strong enough. When you're chasing someone and you cast it, you experience a slight delay and the opponent will outrun you. I suggest Seeker Missile instead of the cuerrent ultimate, no fancy debuffs or anything just plain Seeker Missile with damage.
There is no way his towers will get better than now. You know because of his mobility, he can outlevel people by just cliff walking, setup turret destroying buildings super fast. He is one of the easiest hero to use and very effective. His ultimate has almost no cooltime so it cannot be better than right now. With a sip of mana potion, you can summon towers + ulti + emp + rocket and still setup full number of towers. U have to predict aim for the ulti if you are chasing. It has fairly long range so just cast ahead.
There isn't much to upgrade or downgrade him right now.
please have a look at the purple melee beatle, he doesn't seem balanced at all, he needs to get 1 hit off on you, unload skills, stun and unload skills again, without a way of escape
this is one of the more enjoyable dota style maps tough, please don't stop adjusting/ tweaking/ adding to this, cheers!
It's Duran you're talking about right? Purple is Zeros or him, but i guess beetle means Duran lol. Yeah he is one of the top tier hero right now. Because of that, just a day ago he got nerfed. HP went down. Still top tier... Can't say much about that. Heroes like Phantom or Vagullion should stay near cliffs and hunt creeps. Whenever u see him charging towards you, go over the cliff right away. Duran's problem is he can't go after destroying buildings until mid-game when he has enough hp to stand all that fire. You can ambush him whenever he tries to retreat and heal.
I need help from people who can write guides on their heroes. The forum is not open yet, and design wise still need much work, but i really want to open by next week so we can get tournaments, guides, replays and all that stuff going. I am currently writing the general mechanics of the game and that alone is taking me forever. Any help would be appreciated. Msg me for the temp. site address thanks
I usually random, so I guess I could help out with guides going methodically (ex. starting with Megagun Zord -> Berr Nine, etc).
I think it's very close to balanced at higher levels if you don't have any lag issues <cough> Bell <cough> since it's much faster-paced compared to DotA.
I think the map could use some in-game Tips (F12) since there's so many new players on B.net that have absolutely no idea what to do (and won't listen to instructions from others).
Some of the skill tooltips could use some work though; the descriptions and damages are confusing for new players.
Some of the skill tooltips could use some work though; the descriptions and damages are confusing for new players.
yep this def is one of the obvious things that still need improvement. some skills i never used till i found out that they deal way more dmg then displayed when randomly dropping em on exp boxes.
btw how does armor work? is it normal sc2 mechanic so it just gets substracted?(would be kinda pointless then) does it work agains skills?
Some of the skill tooltips could use some work though; the descriptions and damages are confusing for new players.
yep this def is one of the obvious things that still need improvement. some skills i never used till i found out that they deal way more dmg then displayed when randomly dropping em on exp boxes.
btw how does armor work? is it normal sc2 mechanic so it just gets substracted?(would be kinda pointless then) does it work agains skills?
This. I'm sure some people, including myself, would like to help wording the descriptions. Also, no-one ever invests in armor because its 1) very unuseful 2) unclear whether it's a percentage or a value you subtract from damage. And what does Zava's ultimate Kaiserblade Storm do?
yeah the tooltip only tells you part of the damage. Some skills shoot out multiple projectiles and if you hit the target (hero or building or object) in between hitboxes, it'll do double, triple damage. I guess you have to try it for yourself. It's easy to see if you do in on tanks and buildings.
1 point in armor gives you +2% damage deduction on every damage u take (normal attack + skill attack, npc attacks). you can put upto 25 points in one stat making max armor at 50%. some skills give you extra armor, and you can always get extra armor from card buff.
I think the most i saw was 80% armor, not easy to make but very strong.
This. I'm sure some people, including myself, would like to help wording the descriptions. Also, no-one ever invests in armor because its 1) very unuseful 2) unclear whether it's a percentage or a value you subtract from damage. And what does Zava's ultimate Kaiserblade Storm do?
Armor is very useful if you can put a lot of points in it. It's good late stage when you have atleast 50% armor. Those armor card buffs are really useful.
Zava's ulti has 3 projectile hit boxes. If you hit the opponent of building on the point where the 3 projectiles meet each other (the end part) it'll do damage + extra 10% total hp damage. To know the exact point, try testing on buildings. I would say it's not exactly the end part but right before the end part (inside the circle).
On March 05 2011 23:32 assajocuna wrote: yeah the tooltip only tells you part of the damage. Some skills shoot out multiple projectiles and if you hit the target (hero or building or object) in between hitboxes, it'll do double, triple damage. I guess you have to try it for yourself. It's easy to see if you do in on tanks and buildings.
1 point in armor gives you +2% damage deduction on every damage u take (normal attack + skill attack, npc attacks). you can put upto 25 points in one stat making max armor at 50%. some skills give you extra armor, and you can always get extra armor from card buff.
I think the most i saw was 80% armor, not easy to make but very strong.
This. I'm sure some people, including myself, would like to help wording the descriptions. Also, no-one ever invests in armor because its 1) very unuseful 2) unclear whether it's a percentage or a value you subtract from damage. And what does Zava's ultimate Kaiserblade Storm do?
Armor is very useful if you can put a lot of points in it. It's good late stage when you have atleast 50% armor. Those armor card buffs are really useful.
Zava's ulti has 3 projectile hit boxes. If you hit the opponent of building on the point where the 3 projectiles meet each other (the end part) it'll do damage + extra 10% total hp damage. To know the exact point, try testing on buildings. I would say it's not exactly the end part but right before the end part (inside the circle).
I think what it does on large hit boxes like bunkers or final building, this is not for sure but zava's ulti shoots out 3 projectiles and i think each one will do -10% full hp doing upto -30% damage if you aim the the right point. On top of that, it does the damage that tooltip says x 3 as in 3 projectiles.
I did around 6k damage on bunker at level 15. I think that's when my atk up was around 20, almost max. tooltip says it's only around 300~400. so that's 1200 damage + 30% full health.
Still need more testing but yeah, i can understand why she does so much damage on big buildings.
Her other skills like V skill does multiple damage if the hero moves. Meaning if you hit them while they were moving, it'll do x2,x3 damage. if they stay still and get hit, it does x1 or x2 damage.
Her B skill shoots out around 10 projectiles each doing the damage tooltip says, but even on large buildings, the most i got out of was 9 shots, doing 9x the tooltip damage. On heroes, it'll do much less since they have smaller hit boxes.
Her B -> F on buildings will just erase them in seconds. She is really good at destroying buildings.
There is a bug with the latest patch not a game breaking one but an annoyance. If you try to watch a 1v1 or 2vs2 and put ais to make the teams work 2vs2 or 1vs1 it will ignore the ais and the game will go 2 vs 0 or 3vs1 it didnt used to do this and it is annoying cuz people cant watch those game modes anymore can you inform max storm about this?
He has almost no counter. But he himself isn't that op. Very easy to use and effective. I guess from the mid game you have to team up when you move around, never stay alone. Pretty hard to play against phantom.
There's not much yet, so we need every contribution possible. Upload your best replays, your tips and guides, complaints on balance, bug report, just anything you want to write.
This game is not about counters. It is about restrictions of different heroes and how you abuse those. For example Dwarven King is very weak without proper tank support, if he chases somebody he can easily be jumped on and killed. About Gazette its different since he doesn't need his turrets as much, but he is very fast and weak, so if you can slow him, he will not survive many skills. Possible couters to gazette are Ron, Abel if you catch him in your ult, Soul Hunter, and many more with slow/stun. Also iif you le Or you can simply outdamage him if you can lead your skills well. Never let him just farm all 3 lanes, if he is on the highground, chase him away so he'll have to go and heal since he has very low hp
I really like this mod, but I think there's some obvious balance problems. I feel that Genesic and Arcane is WAY to powerful. Especially Genesic I think really needs to be reworked. It's just such a dumb hero imo that requires no skill what so ever. You can't outrun him, you cant 1on1 him with any hero, not even when 4-5 levels above. In combination with any other hero that can slow/disable he is just unstoppable.
Arcane on the other hand Isn't super imba, but he is a little to easy to use, his aoe spells covers such a huge area and does more damage then most other spells I feel(you have to be retarded to miss with his abilities). IMO the bigger the aoe the lesser total damage should be a fundamental thing to balance around.
Some heroes in this mod is really well thought out, like Ron for instance. You have to land clutch combos in order to do damage, and it's rewarding the better player. Other heroes like the reaper rewards other skills like using the terrain to your advantage. These are concepts that I really appreciate with this mod. Auto-chasing your opponents with a million Zealots blocking and dealing sick dps are not.
On March 10 2011 17:42 BertiliO wrote: I really like this mod, but I think there's some obvious balance problems. I feel that Genesic and Arcane is WAY to powerful. Especially Genesic I think really needs to be reworked. It's just such a dumb hero imo that requires no skill what so ever. You can't outrun him, you cant 1on1 him with any hero, not even when 4-5 levels above. In combination with any other hero that can slow/disable he is just unstoppable.
Dark Fact deals with Genesic pretty well. Just unload the special attacks and blanket the ground with claria storms(slows, deals HUGE damage), then activate the ultimate which makes you invincible and also deals damage. Of course, you have to see him coming, otherwise you're at half HP when your first storm hits.
I am new to this map and want to understand how you take down the enemies defense late in the game. To me it seems they are very strong. Is there some way to weaken their defense or upgrade ones troops? Is there a good order in which to target things or does it not matter? What's the gate control for?
I am new to this map and want to understand how you take down the enemies defense late in the game. To me it seems they are very strong. Is there some way to weaken their defense or upgrade ones troops? Is there a good order in which to target things or does it not matter? What's the gate control for?
Just started playing this a few days ago and its quite fun when you learn the basic 5 minerals to mana and then attack build. I am using a slightly different build now that i snatched from the replay pack. I am maining Berr Nine atm.
But there are some problems, mostly with the players. People have a tendency to quit very easily if they get killed, or if their team is losing. Sometimes people will even leave when the game is fairly even (kills / buildings).
I really wish the info on basic builds and strategies were more readily available. Myself, i learned through a friend, but someone attempting this on their own will have a very hard time. Might consider putting a helpful tip in the loading screen?
Other than that, playing this with friends is very fun. Especially with a party of 3 (guaranteed no leavers on our team) and if the stars line up, we meet some evenly skilled players for a good game.
But pub can be pretty terrible due the nature of pub play in general. xD
Also, i would love to see some channel on irc or on bnet to discuss this and possibly arrange matches? "I tried #cityoftempest on irc and "cityoftempest" on eu bnet, but no luck".
I'm not sure about the EU scene but here in NA the "cityoftempest" channel usually has a decent number of people that would set up games. Also the loading screen for NA has all the links such as "www.cityoftempest.net," and the cast link as well.
This information is also bolded in the OP.
Edit: It seems there is a chat channel for EU (from what I read on the cityoftempest forums) but there isn't anybody that's in the channel. Until the game gets more popular (and you can always tell people about the channel while you're in a game, along with the site), I guess it will stay that way.
On April 24 2011 02:35 galenkan wrote: I'm not sure about the EU scene but here in NA the "cityoftempest" channel usually has a decent number of people that would set up games. Also the loading screen for NA has all the links such as "www.cityoftempest.net," and the cast link as well.
This information is also bolded in the OP.
My point was that most people that get their ass kicked in this game will probably not bother going to the website to learn the "5 minerals into mana" build. This is what i meant by "making it more readily available".
I have read through the op, and this entire thread.
I'll keep trying on the cityoftempest chat on bnet in EU. What about irc?
Edit: 1 person in there as well as me. xD yay.
I don't think i'll be getting a US account to play, the latency would be too much. But CoT is pretty popular here too, it's second last on the first page of custom maps.
I agree. It's so easy to stomp pubs because they're all about ATK first. A general guideline in-game (not just on the forums) would make the games more interesting when you get better. In-houses are extremely rare in EU, but luckily IronToilet.911 is around pretty often to set one up. if you think you're good at the game and want an in-house, I'd contact him.
Also, don't feel bad when you're the one getting stomped in-house, there are more people experiencing the same against him *glances at self*
On June 20 2011 09:53 bobbeh wrote: New HUGE update came out yesterday, Maxstorm gave the ownership of the map to IUPRIME because he's too busy with school
On June 20 2011 09:53 bobbeh wrote: New HUGE update came out yesterday, Maxstorm gave the ownership of the map to IUPRIME because he's too busy with school
Where did the website go lololol? i've been trying to get to the forums for well over a week now and i keep getting redirected to some web hosting service site. any idea whats up with this?
There is a new forum up that is completely new. It is very sad though that all the good information on the old forum is now gone. Everyone is welcome to join the forum and help rebuild something that was once a very good source of information for this custom map.
It's important to note that it is not complete yet and there might be made various changes if needed.
I think the balance of the game is much much better than people give it credit for. Naturally there's always going to be characters that are somewhat weaker or stronger, but I don't think there's an obviously broken character at the moment and the vast majority are usable if you play them right.
The bigger concern to me isn't one hero being much better than all the others in general, it's more that there seem to be quite a few hard counters. Characters with no stun, blink, cliffwalk, etc. are extremely vulnerable to melee characters, heros like Guard Fire with a very strong stun seem to absolutely rape melee characters, etc.
I'd be interested to hear what a genuinely good player would have to say on the matter. I mean I'm good in pub games, but I guess that's still pretty terrible objectively.
Also one thing I don't get is why everyone always seems to advocate first 5 in mana. For one thing, many characters (like genesic for example) have skills with 100, 125, 200, etc. mana, so if you put all first 3 in mana you're just going to end up with 175 mana at level 1, 25 too little for your c move and 50 too much for your x. The third point in mana seems completely useless at that level as you can't use your c move yet anyway.
Additionally, several characters just don't seem to need that much mana to begin with. I main Janne and I don't get why you need to spend your valuable minerals on mana after the first 3. You just need your c move for farming anyway and you still get enough mana for your ultimate by lvl 5.
Of course it's going to make your PvP early somewhat stronger since you can do combos much earlier, but that feels to me like it's just depending on the hope that your opponent's bad enough to not notice you approaching with all your mana saved up.
On August 25 2011 19:17 Orome wrote: Also one thing I don't get is why everyone always seems to advocate first 5 in mana. For one thing, many characters (like genesic for example) have skills with 100, 125, 200, etc. mana, so if you put all first 3 in mana you're just going to end up with 175 mana at level 1, 25 too little for your c move and 50 too much for your x. The third point in mana seems completely useless at that level as you can't use your c move yet anyway.
Additionally, several characters just don't seem to need that much mana to begin with. I main Janne and I don't get why you need to spend your valuable minerals on mana after the first 3. You just need your c move for farming anyway and you still get enough mana for your ultimate by lvl 5.
Of course it's going to make your PvP early somewhat stronger since you can do combos much earlier, but that feels to me like it's just depending on the hope that your opponent's bad enough to not notice you approaching with all your mana saved up.
There's a ton of better build than 5 mana, but when you are beginning 5 mana is the best way to learn the game.
Also, big news. IUPrime is working together with lala and sungj and now the map will be update more regularly, the map was just updated on NA.
On August 25 2011 19:11 Orome wrote: I think the balance of the game is much much better than people give it credit for. Naturally there's always going to be characters that are somewhat weaker or stronger, but I don't think there's an obviously broken character at the moment and the vast majority are usable if you play them right.
The bigger concern to me isn't one hero being much better than all the others in general, it's more that there seem to be quite a few hard counters. Characters with no stun, blink, cliffwalk, etc. are extremely vulnerable to melee characters, heros like Guard Fire with a very strong stun seem to absolutely rape melee characters, etc.
I'd be interested to hear what a genuinely good player would have to say on the matter. I mean I'm good in pub games, but I guess that's still pretty terrible objectively.
Yes the balance is not bad, on the NA server there's less than 10 ppl that could keep up with the korean (kinda like in sc2 lol)
Good melee can feint with charge cancelling making you waste guard fire ulti. Not only that but you can use blink strikes to get out of the ulti. Guard fire is really strong early game because of his V, but mid/late game when you can't two shot people, guard fire become less good because V is his only strong damage attack. You can also Ulti and then spam turrets around the guy but that takes a lot of practice to get it right.
Also this game is 3vs3 not 1vs1. The big problem with pub is ppl are playing this 1vs1x3.
Also the game is constantly updated(balance wise), we had some trouble when the map went from maxstorm to IUPrime, but now IUPrime gave the map to 2 NA players and they will be able to update it constantly with the help of IUPrime.
On August 26 2011 06:53 Thrallsa wrote: Did IU give permission to NA to update? does that mean EU might see updates soon too?
He gave us everything.
It's already uploaded on NA, the new hero doesn't work yet(well you can random him LOL but he has no hotkey so click click click), but there's no real major bug
I'm gonna finish the new loading screen and try to upload it on EU.
The thing is I don't know if new bugs will pop out from NA to EU t.t
On August 25 2011 19:17 Orome wrote: Also one thing I don't get is why everyone always seems to advocate first 5 in mana. For one thing, many characters (like genesic for example) have skills with 100, 125, 200, etc. mana, so if you put all first 3 in mana you're just going to end up with 175 mana at level 1, 25 too little for your c move and 50 too much for your x. The third point in mana seems completely useless at that level as you can't use your c move yet anyway. .
More mana (stat) gives higher regeneration, which allows for faster farming. It also allows you to access certain abilities faster. (Ex. on Blade Hunter, you will get enough mana for Final Blow 1 level earlier if you get 5 mana instead of 4 mana)
Also, last time I checked the Korean pros practically all get 5 mana on almost every character.
As one of the best players on NA (sadly... since I don't consider myself on par with the best Koreans), I feel that the map is very close to balanced. On version 1.3 I only found Dwarven King to be an underpowered hero. Every other hero has good abilities to take advantage of.
Hi guys this is SungJ, current patch translator. Basically I am just trying to communicate with IUPrime and lala to get the Korean version patch spread to NA and EU server as well. (IUPrime makes Korean Version -> I translate -> lala puts those infos onto our version)
I would like all readers to take care of the new CT we three are trying to build up.
Plus, I saw Thrallsa's post with link of another ct website recently built. As a matter of fact I think we need a substitute for cityoftempest.net since the previous ct website died, and we still need a website to share detailed information. So I think we should make use of any website available for using as a CT communication zone. Teamliquid board is ok but it's mixed with other infos, so how about we try to make http://cityoftempest.fullboards.com/ our new website and use it?
Thanks for reading and post any questions if you have for me about city of tempest.
p.s. Until we get a solid place for CT communication,
I will post a translation of the patches that have gone through on here.
Sorry, I haven't really had time to monitor the site (or play much CT, I think ive played less than 10 games in the last 3 months)
Since I was somewhat responsible for the last site, basically we were on a free host and they decided they didn't like it and just deleted it- kind of a pain.
I can't do much about it but I have created a page on cityoftempest.net that auto redirects the old url to the new site at cityoftempest.fullboards.com so everyone will automatically be sent to the new site from now on.
On August 25 2011 19:17 Orome wrote: Also one thing I don't get is why everyone always seems to advocate first 5 in mana. For one thing, many characters (like genesic for example) have skills with 100, 125, 200, etc. mana, so if you put all first 3 in mana you're just going to end up with 175 mana at level 1, 25 too little for your c move and 50 too much for your x. The third point in mana seems completely useless at that level as you can't use your c move yet anyway. .
More mana (stat) gives higher regeneration, which allows for faster farming.
Ah, didn't know that, thanks, now it makes more sense.
As one of the best players on NA (sadly... since I don't consider myself on par with the best Koreans), I feel that the map is very close to balanced. On version 1.3 I only found Dwarven King to be an underpowered hero. Every other hero has good abilities to take advantage of.
What about Mighty Monk? :p Whenever I play him I just feel like he's really useless, except at running away.
On August 25 2011 19:11 Orome wrote: I think the balance of the game is much much better than people give it credit for. Naturally there's always going to be characters that are somewhat weaker or stronger, but I don't think there's an obviously broken character at the moment and the vast majority are usable if you play them right.
The bigger concern to me isn't one hero being much better than all the others in general, it's more that there seem to be quite a few hard counters. Characters with no stun, blink, cliffwalk, etc. are extremely vulnerable to melee characters, heros like Guard Fire with a very strong stun seem to absolutely rape melee characters, etc.
I'd be interested to hear what a genuinely good player would have to say on the matter. I mean I'm good in pub games, but I guess that's still pretty terrible objectively.
You can also Ulti and then spam turrets around the guy but that takes a lot of practice to get it right.
That's what's seemed strong to me, but yeah I had the same feeling that Guard Fire runs out of steam somewhat later in the game.
Also this game is 3vs3 not 1vs1. The big problem with pub is ppl are playing this 1vs1x3.
Yeah I guess looking at the game in terms of 1v1's a bad habit I've picked up from pubbing. The few times I've had the pleasure of playing with people who somewehat know what they're doing, the 3v3 fights have been reaally interesting.
Hmm... just tried out Dwarven King on 1.4, the buffs to him seem to bring him closer to average but the problem still lies in setup time.
Mighty Monk is very good for support (FoW slow) and is a bit situational with his ulti. His damage is a bit lower than others, but that's mainly because he can go invulnerable.
Oh, and fair warning to new players: Don't expect to win with no knowledge of the game (like not knowing how to build a barracks in SC) and don't think you have any understanding of the balance.
I'm a big pubstar (159-40) but i feel like the game needs to balance out blade hunter. Blazing needs a longer range, and mor slow ( take it from the sword dance skill) because if the opponent is ranged and can slow, you HAVE to go knight mode or else they can kite you forever.
Also megagun is still hilariously op. He's fast and does insane damage.
Dwarven kings ultimate needs to do mote damage. Right now it's only good if you have max or near max tanks, which almost never happens with a good opponent.
On September 27 2011 13:50 Soulish wrote: I'm a big pubstar (159-40) but i feel like the game needs to balance out blade hunter. Blazing needs a longer range, and mor slow ( take it from the sword dance skill) because if the opponent is ranged and can slow, you HAVE to go knight mode or else they can kite you forever.
Also megagun is still hilariously op. He's fast and does insane damage.
Dwarven kings ultimate needs to do mote damage. Right now it's only good if you have max or near max tanks, which almost never happens with a good opponent.
You don't know how to charge cancel right?
Blade hunter with his blink strike is the best melee hero in the game. Knight mode is not used much.
megagun is never used in korea so he's not gonna get nerfed anytime soon
http://player.vimeo.com/video/29550339 ^^ that one has a blink strike bh @9:30, he charge cancel mid to kill mech, then charge cancel again and kill drago has he gets killed
On September 27 2011 13:50 Soulish wrote: I'm a big pubstar (159-40) but i feel like the game needs to balance out blade hunter. Blazing needs a longer range, and mor slow ( take it from the sword dance skill) because if the opponent is ranged and can slow, you HAVE to go knight mode or else they can kite you forever.
Also megagun is still hilariously op. He's fast and does insane damage.
Dwarven kings ultimate needs to do mote damage. Right now it's only good if you have max or near max tanks, which almost never happens with a good opponent.
You don't know how to charge cancel right?
Blade hunter with his blink strike is the best melee hero in the game. Knight mode is not used much.
megagun is never used in korea so he's not gonna get nerfed anytime soon
http://player.vimeo.com/video/29550339 ^^ that one has a blink strike bh @9:30, he charge cancel mid to kill mech, then charge cancel again and kill drago has he gets killed
How do you deal with characters like horus and force fire early game when they can kill creep super fast? Do you have to double team or is there some other method of keeping up with these characters. I got owned badly with Fang Dong Feng but in my experience, this problem still exists for a lot of other characters.
On November 09 2011 16:10 eekmice wrote: How do you deal with characters like horus and force fire early game when they can kill creep super fast? Do you have to double team or is there some other method of keeping up with these characters. I got owned badly with Fang Dong Feng but in my experience, this problem still exists for a lot of other characters.
Hi eekmice. Well to start you will have a hard time vs Force Fire Arcane and any other hero that does that kind of area damage but just remember that pushing that fast has a big down side for Force fire he has no range so by pushing to early the will push creep to far and will be shot by your towers. The most important thing it to split your creep at the start so they cant kill them so quick but don't concentrate on this to much if you are stuggling to do this just practice the next round. Also if you are laned vs FF and you cant handle him with your hero ask your team to swap its better then getting ownd and feeding him.Fang is a tier one hero so you should just learn to play him better maybe get some replays for FDF and learn. Look i don't know if i can post other forums here but if you go to the cityoftempest forum that you will see on the loading screen you will find a lot of replay's and also a list of hero build leveling buying at shops etc...So i hope i was of some help.
Hi Guys. I was searching the net and found that this site has the most users reading CT threads and thought that i could ask you guys to please help me make a list of all users and on what server you play NA or EU. The list will be like AfterLife897-EU well my id is wrong cant get it now but you get the idea. The main idea behind this is to start getting more people involved with IH(Inhouse) games. The advantage of playing IH game is that you play vs much higher level guys that can help you to learn te game better and thus making you a better opponent for them. There is a cityoftempest channel and now in EU also a IH channel that will make it easy to get a IH game going. I know most guys like Rage quitting after first kill or so but trust me if you want to improve your game play more IH games. So i dont know if you guys like this idea but let me know. Also i know some of you guys don't like other forums but if you guys want some build and level orders for some heros let me know i can post them here from cityoftempest official site.
EPT
But would love it on eu so it can be played without lag
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-189553.jpg)
