• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:25
CEST 23:25
KST 06:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists11[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers10Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced9Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail0MaNa leaves Team Liquid19
StarCraft 2
General
2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Data needed Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2262 users

[D] Reflection vs. Rotational Symmetry in (4) 1v1 - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
SaltyDog
Profile Joined January 2011
Uganda73 Posts
February 14 2011 23:20 GMT
#21
Rotational symmetry in 1v1 maps like Xel'Naga Caverns is clearly a great thing. Rotationally symmetric maps look less symmetric, more natural and so are more aesthetically pleasing. Rotational symmetry in 2v2 maps like Delta Quadrant (in the context of a 1v1 match) creates inerrant imbalance excluding cross positions. Also, trying to limit this positional imbalance stems creativity to an extent; rotational symmetry in 2v2 maps tends to encourage large, reflected center areas with small, rotated main bases (it would be interesting to see a map that did this the other way around) which is not necessarily bad but a bit monotonous.

Although reflective symmetry is a little weird in 1v1 maps, in 2v2 it enables varied strategy in relation to spawn positions without inherent positional imbalance. Lost temple, Metalopolis, Shakuras plateau, all the poplar 2v2 maps have bi-axial, reflective symmetry.

So rotation for 1v1, reflection for 2v2. Although it's all about the 1v1 play, so why bother making 2v2 maps? Big, rotational 1v1s with lots of expansions are the way forward imo.
I'm unemployed, so I make maps.
ggb667
Profile Joined June 2007
United States16 Posts
February 23 2011 20:14 GMT
#22
I have read these threads on symmetry and am unconvinced it is needed. If positions are substantially similar in terms of distance, expansions, and choke points I can't see why the map should be a mirror or rotationally symmetric in each case. It also limits the influence of the map on strategy. It should be OK for some positions to encourage expansion or turtling as long as the overall win percentage from each starting position for each race is identical.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-23 22:28:42
February 23 2011 20:23 GMT
#23
On February 24 2011 05:14 ggb667 wrote:
I have read these threads on symmetry and am unconvinced it is needed. If positions are substantially similar in terms of distance, expansions, and choke points I can't see why the map should be a mirror or rotationally symmetric in each case. It also limits the influence of the map on strategy. It should be OK for some positions to encourage expansion or turtling as long as the overall win percentage from each starting position for each race is identical.


Yeah, good luck doing that. Once you become Testbug (the mapper not the map), let us know.

P.S. Seven Sins ftw.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
ggb667
Profile Joined June 2007
United States16 Posts
March 09 2011 15:35 GMT
#24

Yeah, good luck doing that. Once you become Testbug (the mapper not the map), let us know.

P.S. Seven Sins ftw.


You agree the principle is right then? Good. Difficult? Yes, fun? Oh yea!
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life.
adso
Profile Joined March 2011
718 Posts
March 09 2011 15:56 GMT
#25
What iGrok is implying ggb667, is that you are sort of posting vs in a fan club thread, no one minds
mapmakers are the kindest of souls (inside)
but while i agree with you that it's fun that we all want, i concur that it's a hell of a task to do


thank you for sharing BoomStevo
mapmaker bow to you sir

Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 85
ROOTCatZ 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Soma 362
Rush 183
Dota 2
canceldota70
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m5803
Other Games
summit1g7915
tarik_tv3476
Grubby2980
FrodaN728
C9.Mang0220
KnowMe162
Liquid`Hasu159
ArmadaUGS96
ZombieGrub50
Trikslyr40
ViBE13
KawaiiRice2
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL115
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 38
• Sammyuel 37
• davetesta37
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 23
• FirePhoenix9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21095
League of Legends
• Doublelift2916
• TFBlade1400
Other Games
• imaqtpie918
• Scarra650
• Shiphtur107
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 35m
The PondCast
12h 35m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
13h 35m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 2h
Escore
1d 12h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 13h
OSC
1d 17h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-14
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.