EPTgood job!
Power Rank 10/15/2008 - Page 18
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FreeDoM[YA]
Canada855 Posts
good job! | ||
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Phradamon
Romania191 Posts
On November 03 2008 01:49 Klive5ive wrote:  Stork number one power rank for the first time in his career. You know it's coming!Last year in  October or november Stork was no1 in PR... Is his first gold medal yes, but not first time on no 1 on PR or first time on no 1 kespa rankings.Hail for free | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On November 03 2008 06:09 Phradamon wrote: Last year in October or november Stork was no1 in PR... Is his first gold medal yes, but not first time on no 1 on PR or first time on no 1 kespa rankings.Hail for freeYou're thinking about Kespa. Stork was first in Kespa before, but never on the PR. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On November 02 2008 14:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think Flash declined for a couple reasons:I agree for the most part, but I would think that Flash has inconsistent ability which plays a large part in his recent losses. I'm actually writing an article about Flash and his "slumps", so I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that when I post it. 1) Hes young, so his mental ability to keep going through hard times, not to burn out and so forth, is obviously a bit worse than others. He has not reached a degree of maturity so that he can dominate the StarCraft world for a prolonged period of time. Pressure gets to him. 2) He was played so much in Proleague, had so many tournaments going, his play inevitably gets stale. It gets figured out. But more importantly, he himself burns out. He starts faltering practice, his confidence dwindles, he lacks motivation. When Luxury beat him with creative play, it was the straw that broke the camels back. He began to lose confidence in his ability to play a standard, or creative game, and started relying desperately on his macro- gogo 14 cc. I think that due to his recent failures though, he has begun to wake up. He'll probably be back on top- maybe not to the same extent- within a month or two. | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
On November 03 2008 06:09 Phradamon wrote: Last year in October or november Stork was no1 in PR... Is his first gold medal yes, but not first time on no 1 on PR or first time on no 1 kespa rankings.Hail for freeYeah, he never was. It was decided that Bisu would keep the #1 spot because of his PvZ - Bisu would be given even odds against any other player, but Stork wouldn't - his sub par PvZ would not allow it. This time, even though he hasn't done anything to show his PvZ is any better, he probably does actually deserve to be #1 on the Power Rank. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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disciple
9070 Posts
On November 03 2008 08:31 OneOther wrote: I don't know why you guys think Stork is sub par PvZ. He's a favorite against any player except Jaedong. He's 50-50 against JD, looking at the way those two have been playing lately. Storks PvZ skills are not important having in mind the current situation in the scene. The chance of the new osl champ to face a zerg with a descent ZvP anywhere in the tournaments is extremely low. With that being said I dont think there is a significant evidence that Stork's PvZ is ass kicking atm, cause most likely he will have to play against zerg once a month in some random PL game | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 03 2008 01:13 raga4ka wrote: I don't think Best or Bisu deserve to be that high . Free is performeing better then them and JangBi and KAL about equal . To many fucking tosses are in good form to make an accurate rank next month . I also think that ForGG is the strongest terran out there with Flash and maybe Fantasy , but then again FBH is doing good . In the zerg section Jaedong and Luxury are always monsters despite Luxury haveing a not so good ZvP . So i don't know how the rank should be made . Bisu made it to the Ro8 in the OSL(losing to Stork) and is in the Ro8 in the MSL. He's also playing well in the proleagues. I honestly can't think of a more consistent performer in all leagues so far besides Stork. Best is just as good as Free in the PL and made it to the semis in the OSL vs. Free's Ro8 appearance in the MSL. If Free wins the MSL, then next month he should get a bump up. As for Terrans, they're all bunched together so it really could go either way. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 03 2008 02:28 TarsTarkas wrote: You cannot say "Stork didn't have much OSL practice time!" while at the same time saying "Stork never even practiced against ForGG" Stork had to practice for something. It is unfair to ForGG to say that his series should have been 2-0. Did you even watch those games? ForGG played impressively, the only reason he lost was because he was playing Stork. I think it is also safe to say that Stork practiced for the OSL finals like crazy. Sure, Fantasy had an advantage through the scheduling of events, but Stork still practiced a ton, as was obvious from the series. That series by Fantasy was amazing, he came back from being 0-2, demonstrating great mental fortitude. That should get him high on the power rank. How does his performance this month drop him two spots? Please stop using the argument 'if stork practiced more, he would have swept these n00bs' - Stork won anyways, and I don't think that Stork's tough schedule can be used as an excuse to say these players are not doing well. Did you even notice Stork's schedule leading up to the finals? Sure, he practiced for "something", but how much time? Whereas Fantasy had nothing but a couple of PL games for 2 weeks. I think it's safe to assume all of Stork's energy was devoted to playing best leading up to the semifinals. After that... MSL Ro16 vs. ForGG the next day - Probably practiced for a day? vs. ForGG practicing ever since their last matchup in game 1. GOM Ro64 vs. Orion - Okay, I give you that he probably just played a couple of games before showing up. But that's still half a day worth of just showing up for the match. 2 1/2 days break to practice for either Fantasy or Kal. MSL Ro8 against Kal 1 day to practice. OSL finals. That's a pretty sick schedule. And before you say that top players pwns anyway, take a look at what Flash became after having to play day after day in the starleagues and the proleagues. I really doubt his builds would degrade into only macro heavy ones(the 14CC joke) if it wasn't for his insane schedule last season. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On November 03 2008 08:31 OneOther wrote: Um..what? Savior? Effort? Kwanro? Julyzerg? Calm?I don't know why you guys think Stork is sub par PvZ. He's a favorite against any player except Jaedong. He's 50-50 against JD, looking at the way those two have been playing lately. The Zerg race is in a decline so there is not that many Zerg heroes at the moment, but there are many stable individuals who could, while be considered the underdog, be considered it only marginally against Stork; firefist, Luxury, Yarnc, oversky, type-b...blah blah blah. Storks PVZ is good, but its terrible compared to his pvp and his pvt. Its not S class, he lacks finesse and understanding with it. His mechanics carry him in that match up. Thats not to say hes hopeless, but you definitely can not go around praising his pvz, outside of perhaps, his terrible play on Andromeda. By terrible I mean lame. Edit: Hell this is the idiot who went 2-1 against Orion a few days ago. I dont care how much you are practicing on other match ups, anyone who can be claimed S class in pvz should consider orion a free win. Jangbi beat him 2-1 months ago and was looked down on for it. For good reason. Orion fucking sucks. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On November 03 2008 10:41 Dazed_Spy wrote: Um..what? Savior? Effort? Kwanro? Julyzerg? Calm? The Zerg race is in a decline so there is not that many Zerg heroes at the moment, but there are many stable individuals who could, while be considered the underdog, be considered it only marginally against Stork; firefist, Luxury, Yarnc, oversky, type-b...blah blah blah. Storks PVZ is good, but its terrible compared to his pvp and his pvt. Its not S class, he lacks finesse and understanding with it. His mechanics carry him in that match up. Thats not to say hes hopeless, but you definitely can not go around praising his pvz, outside of perhaps, his terrible play on Andromeda. By terrible I mean lame. Edit: Hell this is the idiot who went 2-1 against Orion a few days ago. I dont care how much you are practicing on other match ups, anyone who can be claimed S class in pvz should consider orion a free win. Jangbi beat him 2-1 months ago and was looked down on for it. For good reason. Orion fucking sucks. No chance in hell those would win. I don't know about Firefirst and Type-b, haven't seen many ZvP's from them. YAY: I'm a hydrlisk! | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
On November 03 2008 08:31 OneOther wrote: I don't know why you guys think Stork is sub par PvZ. He's a favorite against any player except Jaedong. He's 50-50 against JD, looking at the way those two have been playing lately. lets not get ahead of ourselves | ||
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SpiralArchitect
United States2116 Posts
Well OneOther is essentially right. There arent any other Zergs right now who area as dominant as Jaedong or even able to put the smackdown on Stork, not matter how shitty his PvZ is. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 03 2008 10:41 Dazed_Spy wrote: Um..what? Savior? Effort? Kwanro? Julyzerg? Calm? The Zerg race is in a decline so there is not that many Zerg heroes at the moment, but there are many stable individuals who could, while be considered the underdog, be considered it only marginally against Stork; firefist, Luxury, Yarnc, oversky, type-b...blah blah blah. Storks PVZ is good, but its terrible compared to his pvp and his pvt. Its not S class, he lacks finesse and understanding with it. His mechanics carry him in that match up. Thats not to say hes hopeless, but you definitely can not go around praising his pvz, outside of perhaps, his terrible play on Andromeda. By terrible I mean lame. Edit: Hell this is the idiot who went 2-1 against Orion a few days ago. I dont care how much you are practicing on other match ups, anyone who can be claimed S class in pvz should consider orion a free win. Jangbi beat him 2-1 months ago and was looked down on for it. For good reason. Orion fucking sucks. Kwanro and Calm, really? LOL do you watch StarCraft? I love Savior too but let's stick to reality. And how many ZvPs of Effort have you seen to make that judgement? Sorry to break it to you but Stork is the favorite against all the players listed, maybe except for July because he's too good at cheesing. Savior, Effort, Kwanro, Calm..give me a break. Ya okay Stork lost to some stupid all-in and raped Orion 2-1, big deal. Every single Zerg you listed would lose to Stork in a BO3. IMPORTANT NOTE: I am not by all means saying his PvZ meets up to his PvT or PvP. But it's definitely not "sub-par" or "shitty." I know it's not S-class, but he's up there right along with the likes of Bisu, Jangbi, and Kal. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
It's true, sorry bud. Jaedong and Julyzerg (for the reason listed above) are the only zergs even or favored against Stork. And they can't win ZvTs so it all works out. We can't really tell who would win Stork vs Jaedong. I know Jaedong has a great ZvP, but he HAS been slipping a bit, while Stork has been playing at his best. Although his PvZ hasn't been proven yet, I can't put Stork as the underdog. Just my thoughts but I would reluctantly agree with whoever puts Jaedong as the favorite against Stork, because his ZvP has already been proven. Regardless of his recent performance, of course. | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
Jaedong vs Stork = 50/50 ? Jaedong can't win ZvT? July only a favorite vs stork for his ability to cheese? Stork as good at PvZ as Bisu and Kal? When is the last time you watched Stork play a PvZ against a decent player? I have no idea about effort's ZvP, Stork would rape Luxury/Yarnc hardcore with ease, kwanro would fail horribly against him, all true. I think Savior would have about even odds, and the way Calm is playing these days I would say he is a favorite. What are you basing these supposed PvZ skills Stork has off of? He isn't bad (like, say... BeSt...) but he isn't good either. The last time Stork beat a Zerg player with decent ZvP was his single win against Jaedong in the OSL that Jaedong won. I know you like Stork, but his PvZ is not good. It isn't really a problem at the moment, and it isn't holding him back, but he is not good at the matchup. Watch his games - he beats down pathetic zerg's like Orion because he is simply on another level - he doesn't have finesse or much of a PvZ 'game sense.' | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
On November 03 2008 13:49 OneOther wrote: It's true, sorry bud. Jaedong and Julyzerg (for the reason listed above) are the only zergs even or favored against Stork. And they can't win ZvTs so it all works out. We can't really tell who would win Stork vs Jaedong. I know Jaedong has a great ZvP, but he HAS been slipping a bit, while Stork has been playing at his best. Although his PvZ hasn't been proven yet, I can't put Stork as the underdog. Just my thoughts but I would reluctantly agree with whoever puts Jaedong as the favorite against Stork, because his ZvP has already been proven. Regardless of his recent performance, of course. yeah so we're basically in agreement. i was just saying "50-50" is presumptuous, at this point. he may be, he may not, but we cannot conclude he is. i'd also say putting him in the elite pvz group is also a bit presumptuous, at this point. this is a tangent, but i think jaedong's problems are more because muta/scourge->hydra->lurker or whatever it is is just worse than the typical scourge-> hydra. with the muta build zerg has much less static defense and overlord protection, which makes them more susceptible to dark templar. it also encourages an air war, with more corsairs, which makes scourge less effective, which puts a lot of pressure on the zerg to both do enough damage with their mutas and keep them alive. it also seems like protoss get a much stronger army composition because they forgo reavers | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 03 2008 16:33 TarsTarkas wrote: OneOther, you have weird opinions - Jaedong vs Stork = 50/50 ? Jaedong can't win ZvT? July only a favorite vs stork for his ability to cheese? Stork as good at PvZ as Bisu and Kal? When is the last time you watched Stork play a PvZ against a decent player? I have no idea about effort's ZvP, Stork would rape Luxury/Yarnc hardcore with ease, kwanro would fail horribly against him, all true. I think Savior would have about even odds, and the way Calm is playing these days I would say he is a favorite. What are you basing these supposed PvZ skills Stork has off of? He isn't bad (like, say... BeSt...) but he isn't good either. The last time Stork beat a Zerg player with decent ZvP was his single win against Jaedong in the OSL that Jaedong won. I know you like Stork, but his PvZ is not good. It isn't really a problem at the moment, and it isn't holding him back, but he is not good at the matchup. Watch his games - he beats down pathetic zerg's like Orion because he is simply on another level - he doesn't have finesse or much of a PvZ 'game sense.' Jaedong vs Stork = 50/50 is reasonable, considering the way they have been playing. Jaedong is inconsistent ZvT. July a favorite against Stork because he's incredibly versatile, which includes a lot of cheese. Stork is as good as Bisu and Kal at PvZ. I don't know why you are telling me my opinions are weird. What was the last PvZ Stork played that shows his PvZ as "bad?" Good call about Stork raping Lux/Yarnc/Kwanro. Savior at even odds, maybe. I still think you are overrating Savior. Calm a favorite over Stork? No way. Calm's ZvP is bad, at least relatively to Stork's PvZ. I am not saying Stork's PvZ is amazing or anything. But I do think that his PvZ meets up to the other strong current Protoss players. It is definitely not shitty or sub-par. I don't know how losing to Jaedong in OSL Finals, the best player of the time, makes Stork not good at PvZ. And if you look closely at those games, they were not one-sided at all. After a great win Game 1, Stork made a stupid mistake and blew the advantage he had in Game 2. I think he started choking and we know what happened from there. He's not bad, he's not amazing, he's just good at PvZ. Bisu is the only player that one could make an argument as the better PvZ player than Stork. To reiterate, Stork's PvZ is not elite. Bisu's PvZ was much better than Stork's a couple months ago, but I saw enough games of him losing to random Zergs to change my opinion. One game that comes to mind is the loss verses Luxury; Stork eats Luxury for breakfast. Although Kal can be very good, I feel like he's inconsistent. So really, who is better than Stork at PvZ? Bisu has historically been S-class at the matchup, I will give him that. True, Stork needs to prove his PvZ but let's not call it bad. It's pretty damn solid. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 03 2008 16:33 TarsTarkas wrote: OneOther, you have weird opinions - Jaedong vs Stork = 50/50 ? Jaedong can't win ZvT? July only a favorite vs stork for his ability to cheese? Stork as good at PvZ as Bisu and Kal? When is the last time you watched Stork play a PvZ against a decent player? I have no idea about effort's ZvP, Stork would rape Luxury/Yarnc hardcore with ease, kwanro would fail horribly against him, all true. I think Savior would have about even odds, and the way Calm is playing these days I would say he is a favorite. What are you basing these supposed PvZ skills Stork has off of? He isn't bad (like, say... BeSt...) but he isn't good either. The last time Stork beat a Zerg player with decent ZvP was his single win against Jaedong in the OSL that Jaedong won. I know you like Stork, but his PvZ is not good. It isn't really a problem at the moment, and it isn't holding him back, but he is not good at the matchup. Watch his games - he beats down pathetic zerg's like Orion because he is simply on another level - he doesn't have finesse or much of a PvZ 'game sense.' I think it's better to say that Stork's "untested" in the matchup rather than saying that he's not good. But it's safe to say that his mechanics are so good as of this moment that he really can overwhelm most zerg opponents just on that basis alone. Simply because there are so few good zergs. I would would not give any zerg other than July or Jaedong a chance in a series against Stork. (50/50 for July, andfavor Jaedong). As for Savior, what has he done other than owning ZvZ on raid assault and winning blizzcon(I mean, it IS just blizzcon)? Savior has not shown the ability to take out S level players no matter the race. And Calm is playing well in proleague, but through his nice 8-2 streak, his best wins were against Much and Leta, while his losses have been against Luxury and Free. So what makes you think he can take out Stork? On OneOther's "crazy" ideas, I agree with Jaedong not being good vT. At least if you consider Stork's vZ is bad. Jaedong's 6-4 in his last 10 games against Terran, and 9-11 in his last 20. I don't see how that is a sign of dominance no matter how you look at it. I do think Bisu and Jangbi are clearly superior PvZ players in general. Don't really follow Kal enough to comment on him. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
For loosing a single game to a very well playing Frozean, a game that he could afford cuz from the MSL group you can leave with 2-1. his ZvTs showed how a zerg can still win when his sunkens are broken, when he loeses his natural and so on. Jaedong's ZvT isnt unquestionable, but still far the best around. Stork's PvZ is nothing to do with Bisu's or Kal's or Free's (ok that's too taugh this way, cuz Kal isnt that great). You can say, that "I'm sure his PvZ had to improve, due to his boost in confidence, and stabalized gamestyle", that's fine i'm ok with that. In my opinion this zergs count when we speak about ZvP Jaedong, Julyzerg, Calm (yes, Calm is great in this season), and maybemayve Savior. The twins are very good, but they ZvP is not what we would expect from them (in other words, they suck). Stork's PvZ isn't terrible, you cant say that, cuz nothing proves it. But in the past he did not met very good ZvPs, or he did he lost. He needs to beat Jaedong or Julyzerg, or make consecutive wins in PL against decent zergs like Calm, CJZergs etc. Or even if he somehow manages to meet Luxury at WCG and own him in a bo5, i would admit Stork's PvZ is very good, despite the fact we all know how bad Luxury can do sometimes against toss. Throwin out statements like he's just as good as Bisu that's... i will say, not true. Bisu and free are better than him in that MU. Jangbi too, at least it seems like. Maybe Kal too, but Kal sometimes proves himself very inconsistent. Stork being at top level in vZ, and Jaedong being unreliable on vT. Just put this two near each other, i'm sure it sounds horrible even for a Stork-fan. Give time for Stork to prove himself good on this mu, untill than you cansay that "don't say Stork's PvZ is bad, he wasnt doing bad, and he will prove himself" (btw is it proove or prove?) | ||
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