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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On October 30 2008 05:45 Geo.Rion wrote: I can't drop forgg from pr?you cant drop Forgg from PR, his only "bad" performence was lossing to Stork 2-1, other than that he's kicking asses Already did.  But in all seriousness, your probably right, he should probably knock off Kal and take his spot. I forgot all about him. He's just really quietly slide off since Arena... | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 30 2008 06:24 disciple wrote: what the fuck with "bisu is not there yet, bisu must win in PL more games" and stuff. The guy is on roll ! He is on 7-8 games winning streak, his ELO is higher than JD's what the fuck do you want more? Yes, he will 3-0 FBH with ez, the game in the group stage was won by the ceremony king but bisu was preparing for his PvP games with stork and fbh had like 3 weeks just to improve a bit his TvP. Tempest is a chump, FBH will drop the soap so badly to the first good toss, seriously Bisu will destroy him it wont be even funny. Right now there are two guys to beat - Stork and Bisu. All others are chumps with wlwlwlwllllww records Bisu is still ill, or at least he was for a good time so he wasnt in the SKT1 PL roster for 2 matches i think; that's the reason for him playing less. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
Stork is 14-5, with losses to Best, Bisu, fOrGG, Kal, and type-b, the first three all in series he won. His competition is nothing less than stiff and is quite overworked, and he's owning up pvp with geniunely smart play. Fantasy is 12-7, with wins over Mind, GGPlay, and Iris. His losses to zerg in proleague are pretty ominous, but that GGPlay series either showed how potent the Oov/Fantasy combo is. free is 11-3, with a mediocre lineup but he did beat JD, Sea, Calm, and FBH's upgraded tvp. He also lost to pure, but is pure good anymore? I haven't kept track. Best is 13-6, with 3 of those losses coming to Stork and otherwise only losing against zergs (bad ones+JD). Being a 2 matchup wonder is never good, but he is looking great pvp/pvt. That's a lot of games, and losing to Stork is nothing to be ashamed of. Though he clearly is not as amazing as he has been heralded in the past, as he has taken Stork's title of 'No brains' Protoss for me. Mechanics only get you so far kid. FBH is 7-3, with losses to Leta, Best, and free. Wins over Flash, Bisu, and Much. However, I must note that FBH played 0 games in his best matchup, TvZ, and 7/10 games were his old horrible matchup, TvP. Bisu is 10-3, with 2 losses to Stork and the other to FBH. Notable wins over Stork and Much, and I guess thoroughly stomping Hwasin counts? Flash is 11-5, with losses to JD, FBH, GGPlay (1 is a pretty dumb Reason). Dropping a game to Tester of all people isn't good, although I *believe* that was the game that Flash had won but then didn't see fleet beacon->thought arbs->lost to carriers. Anyways, there is a clear difference between Flash this month between his earlier and later play. Either he's getting lucky or those losses to GGPlay and Jaedong are shaking him up and forcing a return to a better Flash style. fOrGG is 7-3, with 2 losses to Stork; how well he did in those games is hard to tell, since both players made several uncustomary mistakes. Randomly dropped another game to HiyA although won the series. Wins off of Canata, Stork, and Mind. JangBi is 5-1, although his list is all mediocre opponents. He has a pretty safe way to MSL semis, but Stork will be the ultimate roadblock unless he gets mentally crushed by another Silver medal. Sucks for him, because he could have a good chance on the other side of the bracket. NaDa is 3-0 with one cool play vs Memory but that's it really. Not much to go on. GGPlay is 5-6, with 3 to Fantasy, 1 to Flash, and then Leta and SaiR. Beating RainBOw in GSI and lucking out vs Flash isn't a particularly amazing thing, he should be gone. I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the top 6. Stork Fantasy #1 if decisive win 3-5 consists of and depends wholly on performances: Bisu/FBH (winner) free (If defeats NaDa easily) Best #6 Loser of Bisu/FBH or Flash/NaDa if the loser sucks and NaDa does really well. 3/4/5 would be determined by level of play in the series. The loser could be high too if it's a really great series, as Bisu/FBH both look on fire and could give some great games. Since the specific placing of JD was asked, it's unthinkable that he should be above 6th, unless FBH/Bisu suddenly break their fingers (again lol) and play horribly. Anyone who suggests otherwise (and it's the majority rofl) is clearly a dumb Jaedong fanboy and should be ignored. He definitely should be higher than 9th/10th, but in that 6-8 range it's anyones call. Rounding out the bottom 4 chooses from: Flash fOrGG Jaedong JangBi Luxury NaDa (If good win) Jaedong came into October looking very strong, and then promptly started being bad for whatever Reason. The owner of the best zvz and zvp should not be dropping games to the people he did (although free certainly isn't bad and deserved the Byzantium win, Athena 2 is really strong for Zerg and JD played horribly here). Win over best is 'ok' only because Best's pvz is terrible, win over Flash was good, win over free was good. Otherwise every other game he won was vs a creampuff opponent and he dropped 3 random games and lost to an uprising free. Flash came into October looking like an average, ~7-8th or so best player, and then promptly started tearing things up after his horrible losses to GGPlay and JD. He hasn't have enough time to prove his potential new play though, so Where he is placed should be determined by how well his 'new form' looks. Solid opponents, nothing amazing. But is definitely not 14ccing every other game, which is what was holding him back from a consistent top 3 player before. And you must keep in mind he is still leading proleague through/despite his constant overuse at KTF. fOrGG, as quiet as always, just like Best had the misfortune of running into Stork and like Best has played well otherwise, although hasn't had as many opportunities. My guess is no matter what I say he'll be forgotten anyways so I won't bother. JangBi has done well with what he's been given, but he hasn't been given much. It would be hard to put him above any of the others, although that isn't really his own fault. Whether he's here or Luxury is depends on how hard he stomps Yarnc I guess. Luxury has done nicely with his transition to KTF and put up a respectable 6-2 record. Unfortunately, he is 2-2 vs notable players, losing to Kal and Stork and winning against Calm and Much, and his other opponents have been expected wins. JangBi/Lux are clearly fighting for the last spot, assuming NaDa doesn't beat free. Neither have had enough playtime to properly show their potential NaDa determines his own fate vs free. Otherwise nobody else compares with the other 5. Based on my 'predictions,' I would go with this (Yes I do assume Oov/Fantasy to stomp Stork). Of course if my predictions are wrong then this list is meaningless but maybe! And Best is 5 because I predict FBH/Free show great play. 1) Fantasy 2) Stork 3) FBH 4) Free 5) Best 6) Bisu 7) Flash 8) Jaedong 9) fOrGG 10) JangBi CNBC: Luxury and some randoms. EDIT: For curiosities sake, look at current ELOs: Stork 2287 Best 2253 ForGG 2241 Flash 2239 Bisu 2227 Jaedong 2226 FBH 2206 Lux/Jangbi/Free. Pay special attention to ForGG, Flash, and Jaedong. | ||
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Polar_Bear
Germany55 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On October 30 2008 08:21 Polar_Bear wrote: What should be considered in the ranking is that forgg is not the fav vs any player on earth, and even when he is the fav, he loses- which got him eliminated from both starleagues. why does everyone put forgg that low? he's the fav. vs. any player on earth except of stork, this should be considered in the ranking | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
The reason I keep Jaedong 3-4 is because he's going through a rough patch, if you watch him in game, there's nothing to indicate that his play's dropped. He lost to Sangho because of the DT, not because he plays worse. Same goes for Free, he made a few bad choices. If he continues, I say drop him 7-10 for next month. We can't count this months performance alone, I mean how many newcomers get on a hot streak and fade into obscurity? As for Fantasy, He should not be above 5. July got 6th when he won OSL? Look at what Fantasy's done, he beat Mind. And he beat GGPlay. But that when was do to the new BO and he has repeatedley demonstrated he sucks with MnM. Also, he is way too inconsistent, he drops so many games in the PL. He has no history, just a few flashes of good gameplay and BO. | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
On October 30 2008 04:20 OneOther wrote: Why would Jaedong be placed higher than Fantasy? Higher than Bisu/BeSt? What has Jaedong done lately? EDIT: Because Jaedong's placement is hard to determine for this month, I just want to hear arguments for both sides. As of now, I don't see how Jaedong would be above any of those guys.. i guess when i look at jaedong's recent games i just see tough losses, instead of a decline in his skill. 2 losses from dts because of a poor detection setup (i didn't see the sangho game but i assume this is what happened), a build order-ish loss zvz (didn't punish the 2nd hatch quick enough), and that game against free which, though he played too passively, he would have beaten almost any other protoss. now i agree this drops his stock, the question is how much. last month there wasn't really anything to suggest he wasn't the most dominant player in starcraft, as he was for the past year (with respect to Flash), but this month, yeah, it may be the beginning of something. not going far in either league is also definitely a minus. but it still is only 4 losses - i think anyone, no matter how hot they are, can lose 4 times in 5 games. and remember, he did start the month 5-1 in proleague. i guess i just see this as the potential start of a decline - it's still a little premature to call it, but it's still a downgrade. but it's only a small downgrade from being the best. now i agree, best and fantasy are much much closer than last month, but in my opinion i don't think you can quit give them the edge, yet. i don't think anyone is really sure how good fantasy's tvp or bio tvz is against elite opponents - if he rapes stork, yeah, he probably deserves 1st. and i don't think anyone has confidence in best's pvz or in a 5 game series - he's a lot like stork from last year, isn't quite championship material, yet. he's almost there, but not quite. his results kind of help his standing, but they barely tell us anything we didn't already know: his pvt is very good - his pvp isn't invincible - and he's still not good against zerg (and in that one proleague game he definitely didn't look like an equal against jaedong). as for bisu, he's my favorite player so i'm all for putting him above jaedong, but he still has some big questions too: his pvt was shaky for a very long time, and though it looked awesome against hwasin and good against iris/fbh, how will he look against an elite tvp? (and given the msl bracket, we probably won't know the answer to this). he looked pretty good against july, but how will he do against an elite zerg (july or jaedong) in a series? (again we won't know). but (maybe because i'm biased), bisu gets a little more leniency just because of his potential talent. his macro and reaver micro seem a lot better than last year, which is scary. so even though his results haven't been quite as impressive recently as best or fantasy, i think he's around equal stock as both of them. personally i'd give him the edge because he's looked invincible lately, except vs. himself, but i'd understand putting either of the other skt guys ahead of him. sooooooooooo i guess in a roundabout way, i was trying to say the other three prime candidates to supplant jaedong have, at this point in time, bigger question marks than jaedong himself. but it's only the 30th - i assume the power rank won't be up for another two weeks - which means we'll have two more weeks of games to work with, which admittedly, could change a lot about all four of the players in question. | ||
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TheTyranid
Russian Federation4333 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 30 2008 06:46 Ver wrote: There really are a lot of people playing great in October. It's certainly not an easy month to choose from. Stork is 14-5, with losses to Best, Bisu, fOrGG, Kal, and type-b, the first three all in series he won. His competition is nothing less than stiff and is quite overworked, and he's owning up pvp with geniunely smart play. Fantasy is 12-7, with wins over Mind, GGPlay, and Iris. His losses to zerg in proleague are pretty ominous, but that GGPlay series either showed how potent the Oov/Fantasy combo is. free is 11-3, with a mediocre lineup but he did beat JD, Sea, Calm, and FBH's upgraded tvp. He also lost to pure, but is pure good anymore? I haven't kept track. Best is 13-6, with 3 of those losses coming to Stork and otherwise only losing against zergs (bad ones+JD). Being a 2 matchup wonder is never good, but he is looking great pvp/pvt. That's a lot of games, and losing to Stork is nothing to be ashamed of. Though he clearly is not as amazing as he has been heralded in the past, as he has taken Stork's title of 'No brains' Protoss for me. Mechanics only get you so far kid. FBH is 7-3, with losses to Leta, Best, and free. Wins over Flash, Bisu, and Much. However, I must note that FBH played 0 games in his best matchup, TvZ, and 7/10 games were his old horrible matchup, TvP. Bisu is 10-3, with 2 losses to Stork and the other to FBH. Notable wins over Stork and Much, and I guess thoroughly stomping Hwasin counts? Flash is 11-5, with losses to JD, FBH, GGPlay (1 is a pretty dumb Reason). Dropping a game to Tester of all people isn't good, although I *believe* that was the game that Flash had won but then didn't see fleet beacon->thought arbs->lost to carriers. Anyways, there is a clear difference between Flash this month between his earlier and later play. Either he's getting lucky or those losses to GGPlay and Jaedong are shaking him up and forcing a return to a better Flash style. fOrGG is 7-3, with 2 losses to Stork; how well he did in those games is hard to tell, since both players made several uncustomary mistakes. Randomly dropped another game to HiyA although won the series. Wins off of Canata, Stork, and Mind. JangBi is 5-1, although his list is all mediocre opponents. He has a pretty safe way to MSL semis, but Stork will be the ultimate roadblock unless he gets mentally crushed by another Silver medal. Sucks for him, because he could have a good chance on the other side of the bracket. NaDa is 3-0 with one cool play vs Memory but that's it really. Not much to go on. GGPlay is 5-6, with 3 to Fantasy, 1 to Flash, and then Leta and SaiR. Beating RainBOw in GSI and lucking out vs Flash isn't a particularly amazing thing, he should be gone. I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the top 6. Stork Fantasy #1 if decisive win 3-5 consists of and depends wholly on performances: Bisu/FBH (winner) free (If defeats NaDa easily) Best #6 Loser of Bisu/FBH or Flash/NaDa if the loser sucks and NaDa does really well. 3/4/5 would be determined by level of play in the series. The loser could be high too if it's a really great series, as Bisu/FBH both look on fire and could give some great games. Since the specific placing of JD was asked, it's unthinkable that he should be above 6th, unless FBH/Bisu suddenly break their fingers (again lol) and play horribly. Anyone who suggests otherwise (and it's the majority rofl) is clearly a dumb Jaedong fanboy and should be ignored. He definitely should be higher than 9th/10th, but in that 6-8 range it's anyones call. Rounding out the bottom 4 chooses from: Flash fOrGG Jaedong JangBi Luxury NaDa (If good win) Jaedong came into October looking very strong, and then promptly started being bad for whatever Reason. The owner of the best zvz and zvp should not be dropping games to the people he did (although free certainly isn't bad and deserved the Byzantium win, Athena 2 is really strong for Zerg and JD played horribly here). Win over best is 'ok' only because Best's pvz is terrible, win over Flash was good, win over free was good. Otherwise every other game he won was vs a creampuff opponent and he dropped 3 random games and lost to an uprising free. Flash came into October looking like an average, ~7-8th or so best player, and then promptly started tearing things up after his horrible losses to GGPlay and JD. He hasn't have enough time to prove his potential new play though, so Where he is placed should be determined by how well his 'new form' looks. Solid opponents, nothing amazing. But is definitely not 14ccing every other game, which is what was holding him back from a consistent top 3 player before. And you must keep in mind he is still leading proleague through/despite his constant overuse at KTF. fOrGG, as quiet as always, just like Best had the misfortune of running into Stork and like Best has played well otherwise, although hasn't had as many opportunities. My guess is no matter what I say he'll be forgotten anyways so I won't bother. JangBi has done well with what he's been given, but he hasn't been given much. It would be hard to put him above any of the others, although that isn't really his own fault. Whether he's here or Luxury is depends on how hard he stomps Yarnc I guess. Luxury has done nicely with his transition to KTF and put up a respectable 6-2 record. Unfortunately, he is 2-2 vs notable players, losing to Kal and Stork and winning against Calm and Much, and his other opponents have been expected wins. JangBi/Lux are clearly fighting for the last spot, assuming NaDa doesn't beat free. Neither have had enough playtime to properly show their potential NaDa determines his own fate vs free. Otherwise nobody else compares with the other 5. Based on my 'predictions,' I would go with this (Yes I do assume Oov/Fantasy to stomp Stork). Of course if my predictions are wrong then this list is meaningless but maybe! And Best is 5 because I predict FBH/Free show great play. 1) Fantasy 2) Stork 3) FBH 4) Free 5) Best 6) Bisu 7) Flash 8) Jaedong 9) fOrGG 10) JangBi CNBC: Luxury and some randoms. EDIT: For curiosities sake, look at current ELOs: Stork 2287 Best 2253 ForGG 2241 Flash 2239 Bisu 2227 Jaedong 2226 FBH 2206 Lux/Jangbi/Free. Pay special attention to ForGG, Flash, and Jaedong. you're a funny guy, i really laughed at some points | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 30 2008 16:54 OneOther wrote: Hey Jaedong say hi to #7 you said you like JD. If seomebody puts him on 2nd it means he really likes him and has faith in him, if somebody puts him on 4 it means he's rigid and self-consistent, if somebody hates him he puts him on 6th. 7th? You planning to visit your doctor very soon, am i right? I hope so, this level of misjudging should be treated with medicines. How badly had Flash to play to be pushed down to 6th place? JD having a tough week and you give him a 6 rank decrease. I'm used to wierd statements coming from you, but that's not even funny. I hope you change your mind soon and make a good PR as you did last month. P.S.: Fakesteve? | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
I think by good Pr he meant that you put your dislike for Jd away,and put him where he belonged. Anyway,looks like you'll have a hard time givig rankings,especially if Stork loses the Osl too. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 30 2008 22:40 Geo.Rion wrote: you said you like JD. If seomebody puts him on 2nd it means he really likes him and has faith in him, if somebody puts him on 4 it means he's rigid and self-consistent, if somebody hates him he puts him on 6th. 7th? You planning to visit your doctor very soon, am i right? I hope so, this level of misjudging should be treated with medicines. How badly had Flash to play to be pushed down to 6th place? JD having a tough week and you give him a 6 rank decrease. I'm used to wierd statements coming from you, but that's not even funny. I hope you change your mind soon and make a good PR as you did last month. P.S.: Fakesteve? Jaedong isn't gonna fall very far. He got outplayed by Free playing the game of his life, but that's how it goes for him. He is consistantly the best player, but sometimes he gets outplayed. He never just up and plays bad, which is a problem for pretty much everyone else. Not many people can contend with Jaedong's consistancy, loss to free or not. | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
2007 was Bisu Era 2007+ is Jaedong Era 1 Bad month is not going to take away Jaedong's yearly dominance as a monster..I still see him as a very dominant player in all matchups You know he did lose in ZvZ and his ZvP, arguably his best Matchups, but you still have to lose some right? As long as his % in those matchups is not 100%, the guy has to lose few games here and there. Boxer or Savior during their prime still lost games Jaedong's ZvT (his worst MU) looks more solid than Stork's PvZ (his worst MU). Jaedong's ZvZ (best MU) looks more solid than Stork's PvT (arguably his best MU) Just my biased opinion though. | ||
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
I would like to see Bisu vs JD game again..highest caliber of PvZ | ||
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