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There is no way Viper's abduct ability can be balanced without making massive units immune. Massive units are immune to the Phoenix (another flying unit, which is why I compare the two) Graviton Beam, and the Phoenix literally has to be right on TOP of a unit to use that!
I'm not worried about the Widow Mine, because honestly in the demonstration it looked SO powerful that they is just no way in hell it makes it into the game with anywhere NEAR that kind of power, even if it required tech lab and was more expensive. It's essentially a reactor-available burrowed baneling that micros itself with enough damage to 1 shot a Seige Tank? Yeah, they'll never nerf that, lol. But I am concerned with the fact that it just doesn't seem like an interesting unit. It just latches on, and detonates after 10 seconds.
I think if they're smart, they'll think of a way to tweak it so that it's balanced and very effective without being overpowered at all, it just might take them awhile. Obviously (as it 1 shots a Seige Tank) the damage needs to be reduced, but I have a really good idea for what they could do with the Widow Mine: give it a detonate ability (so the Terran can press the hotkey and detonate it manually as long as it's attached to a unit), and a low base damage but good splash damage with small radius, and at every 1 or 2 second interval, the damage increases by a set margin. This way, for example, say it latches onto a Colossus surrounded by gateway units: Terran has a choice to manually detonate it immediately and take out any Sentries, Templar, or badly damaged units that are close to the Colossus (EMP range? Storm Range? Have to tweak it I guess), wait until the colossus walks a little further and detonate, hitting only units on the edge, but killing any gateway units in the blast radius, or to just wait until the colossus gets far away from any other unit and do like 75% of it's hull damage or whatever the max possible damage is. That way it's somewhat of a cross between a baneling and a void ray; wait longer, more damage; but with the added choice of "do I kill this really expensive unit or do I opportunistically snipe a couple of ill-clumped spellcaster units?" That's something I would explore, at least.
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We probably should avoid judging units so context specific. Saying something like "omg warhounds can't shoot air" isn't really valid because even the existence of a warhound puts the game in a new context. So we need to base our opinions off of experience rather than just assuming units are complementary to current metagame; they in fact are the new metagame.
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On June 15 2012 04:21 Masvidal wrote:
There is no way Viper's abduct ability can be balanced without making massive units immune. Massive units are immune to the Phoenix (another flying unit, which is why I compare the two) Graviton Beam, and the Phoenix literally has to be right on TOP of a unit to use that!
I'm not worried about the Widow Mine, because honestly in the demonstration it looked SO powerful that they is just no way in hell it makes it into the game with anywhere NEAR that kind of power, even if it required tech lab and was more expensive. It's essentially a reactor-available burrowed baneling that micros itself with enough damage to 1 shot a Seige Tank? Yeah, they'll never nerf that, lol. But I am concerned with the fact that it just doesn't seem like an interesting unit. It just latches on, and detonates after 10 seconds.
I think if they're smart, they'll think of a way to tweak it so that it's balanced and very effective without being overpowered at all, it just might take them awhile. Obviously (as it 1 shots a Seige Tank) the damage needs to be reduced, but I have a really good idea for what they could do with the Widow Mine: give it a detonate ability (so the Terran can press the hotkey and detonate it manually as long as it's attached to a unit), and a low base damage but good splash damage with small radius, and at every 1 or 2 second interval, the damage increases by a set margin. This way, for example, say it latches onto a Colossus surrounded by gateway units: Terran has a choice to manually detonate it immediately and take out any Sentries, Templar, or badly damaged units that are close to the Colossus (EMP range? Storm Range? Have to tweak it I guess), wait until the colossus walks a little further and detonate, hitting only units on the edge, but killing any gateway units in the blast radius, or to just wait until the colossus gets far away from any other unit and do like 75% of it's hull damage or whatever the max possible damage is. That way it's somewhat of a cross between a baneling and a void ray; wait longer, more damage; but with the added choice of "do I kill this really expensive unit or do I opportunistically snipe a couple of ill-clumped spellcaster units?" That's something I would explore, at least.
well if u reduce the range so the viper is well within the reach of a HT or ghost emp than i think itd b fine. I personally dont like how they still have the thor in, but oh well
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positive!
I can't wait to have more stargate openings with the addition of the oracle no more lame void/phx harass haha
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i am much happier with this version of hots then the original one that was released i think after tweaks and balancing its gunna make the game much better
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I def like the Oracle and new Reaper upgrade, makes harass so much more viable for Terran early game and Protoss game overall. Viper's Abduct is somewhat overpowered imo, I feel its gonna get nerfed soon. The Tempest is completely useless imo, great range but it shoots was too slowly to really be of any use, I think the Carrier was better. Battle mode Hellion looks really fun to use and def will help Terran Mech play. Warhound is gonna be useful in ending the stressful Siege wars know as TvT. Ultralisk charge is too strong imo as well, Ultras already take a lot of hits to kill. Having them charge into battle is too much I think. I do like Hydra speed off creep though, it makes Hydra so much more useful, like it was back in BW. Finally, as a final note...Blizzard, Y U NO BRING BACK LURKER!?!
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On June 13 2012 10:42 mbr2321 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 08:27 Roflhaxx wrote:
They give terran extremely imba mines but at the same time they remove the ability for banelings to burrow!? I didn't see any notes with regards to the removal of banelings burrowing.
It's gone and rightly so. I play Zerg, and I don't want that shit. Too strong
On June 15 2012 04:21 Masvidal wrote:
There is no way Viper's abduct ability can be balanced without making massive units immune. Massive units are immune to the Phoenix (another flying unit, which is why I compare the two) Graviton Beam, and the Phoenix literally has to be right on TOP of a unit to use that!
I'm not worried about the Widow Mine, because honestly in the demonstration it looked SO powerful that they is just no way in hell it makes it into the game with anywhere NEAR that kind of power, even if it required tech lab and was more expensive. It's essentially a reactor-available burrowed baneling that micros itself with enough damage to 1 shot a Seige Tank? Yeah, they'll never nerf that, lol. But I am concerned with the fact that it just doesn't seem like an interesting unit. It just latches on, and detonates after 10 seconds.
I think if they're smart, they'll think of a way to tweak it so that it's balanced and very effective without being overpowered at all, it just might take them awhile. Obviously (as it 1 shots a Seige Tank) the damage needs to be reduced, but I have a really good idea for what they could do with the Widow Mine: give it a detonate ability (so the Terran can press the hotkey and detonate it manually as long as it's attached to a unit), and a low base damage but good splash damage with small radius, and at every 1 or 2 second interval, the damage increases by a set margin. This way, for example, say it latches onto a Colossus surrounded by gateway units: Terran has a choice to manually detonate it immediately and take out any Sentries, Templar, or badly damaged units that are close to the Colossus (EMP range? Storm Range? Have to tweak it I guess), wait until the colossus walks a little further and detonate, hitting only units on the edge, but killing any gateway units in the blast radius, or to just wait until the colossus gets far away from any other unit and do like 75% of it's hull damage or whatever the max possible damage is. That way it's somewhat of a cross between a baneling and a void ray; wait longer, more damage; but with the added choice of "do I kill this really expensive unit or do I opportunistically snipe a couple of ill-clumped spellcaster units?" That's something I would explore, at least.
Relax. There's a beta for a reason. Speculation based on demos is pretty stupid.
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A lot of things look stupid (visually) - abduct and tempest range
Swarm Host spits out locusts a little to slow to look exciting,
Warhound not shooting air is wtf worthy considering its thors are the only factory AA that doesnt kill itself. We want streamlined upgrades -_-
The mines need a hard revision
colossus still in the game
ultra charge needs some slight revision
and lastly the mineral forcefields need to be reworked a little so it isnt a 'cast, shift-move away' 2 click ordeal for the damage it can do.
tanks are still bad against most of the games units.
I think those were my gripes. everything else looks great.
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Is it fair to say 'Abduct' looks OP? It reminds me of the reason why Blizzard removed the replicant. It was because it ruined "diversity", some players had to skip units according to them. If this isn't the case, how are we supposed to fight against Vipers in PvZ? Are high templars going to be a must against Vipers, hence good feedback very important?
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On June 15 2012 14:16 darkness wrote:
Is it fair to say 'Abduct' looks OP? It reminds me of the reason why Blizzard removed the replicant. It was because it ruined "diversity", some players had to skip units according to them. If this isn't the case, how are we supposed to fight against Vipers in PvZ? Are high templars going to be a must against Vipers, hence good feedback very important?
Exactly what I have been feeling. If they at least made massive units immune I could see the point.
Also, having Viper built as a lair unit (Exactly like overseer), would make it EXTREMELY powerful against Immortal builds. It would seem that you would be forced to go twlight tech as a Protoss until you established your 3rd. Maybe Stargate, but SG isn't quite as viable against mass roach.
It just seems to limit the Protoss way too much, especially considering the requirements to make it.
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On June 15 2012 16:26 Warzone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 14:16 darkness wrote:
Is it fair to say 'Abduct' looks OP? It reminds me of the reason why Blizzard removed the replicant. It was because it ruined "diversity", some players had to skip units according to them. If this isn't the case, how are we supposed to fight against Vipers in PvZ? Are high templars going to be a must against Vipers, hence good feedback very important? Exactly what I have been feeling. If they at least made massive units immune I could see the point. Also, having Viper built as a lair unit (Exactly like overseer), would make it EXTREMELY powerful against Immortal builds. It would seem that you would be forced to go twlight tech as a Protoss until you established your 3rd. Maybe Stargate, but SG isn't quite as viable against mass roach. It just seems to limit the Protoss way too much, especially considering the requirements to make it.
Viper is not lair unit tech but hive unit tech.
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Im thinking FFE into Mass Tempest and then Into mass cannon push is gonna be unstoppable... 22 range is a little OTT.
But at the very least I have something new to mass in team games xD
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I like that the orders in which the possible answer were given is also the order of the actual voting.
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HOTS is still in beta, I still expect to see a lot of changes big or small in the upcoming features. The one thing I hope is that banelings don't have burrow. I don't want to have to build missile turrets everywhere just so my army or mineral line doesnt get exploded upon with not even the slightest indication
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terran mines are pretty op, DRG says so, and he da man
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Interested to see how they balance the viper in beta, give it the same range as Feedback and EMP. I really don't like how it can pull tanks in seige mode - it should only be able to pull them when they're not in seige since they are supposedly bolted to the ground and shouldn't be able to move.
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I like the changes so far, but I'm worried about the tempest. It'll be really hard to balance that range, the damage will either be too high or too low.
I actually think a range upgrade for carrier would be easier to balance because you can still defend against the interceptors.
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ZvT seems like it's still going to be the most interesting match up. I'm liking the mothership core and oracle, but I really wish protoss would get a new combat unit. The whole force fielding death ball thing is really stale, now zerg will counter it more with abduct and swarm hosts, but protoss brings nothing new to the table. Maybe if they buff the hell out of tempests, but even still...
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On June 16 2012 02:28 Beakyboo wrote:
ZvT seems like it's still going to be the most interesting match up. I'm liking the mothership core and oracle, but I really wish protoss would get a new combat unit. The whole force fielding death ball thing is really stale, now zerg will counter it more with abduct and swarm hosts, but protoss brings nothing new to the table. Maybe if they buff the hell out of tempests, but even still...
Even some nice new upgrades to enforce smaller groups of Protoss units being feasible/useful would be really nice.
The way Protoss will play doesn't really seem to change much, except the ability to take bigger risks with the deathball and Recall out of the consequences.
EDIT: Also, if Terrans don't like Storms now, they'll like them even less when a High Templar is hit with the energybooster from the Mothership Core.
INFINI-STORMS! For a short period of time. ;-p
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Poll maybe inaccurate. I wanted to see the results but was too lazy to go back and read the new update. As a result, people voting indifferent may have been overstated. (I voted indifferent to see results)
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EPT
