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On April 11 2012 12:12 xUnSeEnx wrote:
Quit crying about a protoss losing, I am sorry it was evident that Parting was not the better player when he lost the second game to the same build (that he "beat" in the first game). Get over yourselves and stop whining and praise MKP for doing an excellent job in retaking the game (during the regame) and wiping the floor of the rest of Startale. Boo-hoo there was a regame, but honestly it was fair and just instead of saying one player could win over the other, especially with Partings recent performance it is hard to just flat out call someone a victor because of what you can see. MKP is really, really good and probably would have shocked everyone.
Well in the 2nd game MKP made sure not to make the same mistakes in the first game. Parting must have been pretty frustrated after they called a regame because he thought he deserved the win. People keep forgetting the impact that it had psychologically on the players. MKP was relieved and alert, Parting was frustrated. Also, remember Parting having to pause in the 2nd game? Thats yet another factor to add on to his frustration. MKP knows he didn't deserve the 2nd game, you could tell by his face. This was a huge call, and I for one think it was the wrong one.
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It doesn't really matter whether the "correct" call was made or not. The call was made by the people who had been designated to make it, and who are more qualified to do it than any of the people whining about it post factum..
And getting angry at MKP for not defaulting is equally stupid. First, he was there to win, not just himself but for his team and his fans, and a professional player in that situation will do anything short of cheating to come out victorious. Saying "fuck it, I give up" is not an option. Second, MKP has shown countless times that he is not the type of player to give the GG until every last drop of blood has been squeezed out of his units - if the remotest possibilty of victory exists he'll keep fighting, and it's only because of Blizzard, who have burdened the scene with a deficient game, that he wasn't given the chance to play that match out.
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Whether or not the win should have been given or not depending on the game. The after game graphs and post game analysis show Parting in the lead. Whether or not that was win worthy or not doesn't matter but a decision should be made in Parting's favor because he was in the lead. A regame isn't fair because it puts the players back on 'equal' footing when Parting was at an advantage.
I think that it either should of been turned into a bo3 with 1-0 in favor of Parting or a regame with Parting getting map choice. Or something else that is favorable to Parting...
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The thing almost everyone fails to understand is that in any tournament, according to the rules, the decision for.a regame is given when "no player has a clear advantage", and in cases where a player has a "clear advantage, in case of a disconnect, upon review of the game by judges, the player who is determined to have an advantageous position and/or is in a better position to win the game will be awarded the win". People keep saying things like "you can't say MKP 100% loses the game, so regame is the correct decision". You don't need to. No player is ever 100% certain to win any game. A player does not need to be in an un-losable situation to be awarded the win. He merely needs to be determined to have the advantage over the other player. Nowhere does it say anything about 100%. In fact, if you can say that a player will probably win the game in question 60% of the time, he is supposed to be given the win in such situations. Re-game is only called for if the game is completely even and no player has any advantage over the other, or it is less than 2 minutes into the game and no decisive engagement has taken place. People need to understand the rules first before commenting on whether the decision was correct or not. Read the above, and now make your decision. Was any player in a position of advantage to win the game 6 times out of 10?
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On April 11 2012 13:05 zumpy wrote:
Whether or not the win should have been given or not depending on the game. The after game graphs and post game analysis show Parting in the lead. Whether or not that was win worthy or not doesn't matter but a decision should be made in Parting's favor because he was in the lead. A regame isn't fair because it puts the players back on 'equal' footing when Parting was at an advantage.
I think that it either should of been turned into a bo3 with 1-0 in favor of Parting or a regame with Parting getting map choice. Or something else that is favorable to Parting...
Yet MKP was winning 90% of the game, so he should lose because the game cut out at a point where he was down for a minute? that makes no sense.
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On April 11 2012 12:47 Rudolph wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 12:12 xUnSeEnx wrote:
Quit crying about a protoss losing, I am sorry it was evident that Parting was not the better player when he lost the second game to the same build (that he "beat" in the first game). Get over yourselves and stop whining and praise MKP for doing an excellent job in retaking the game (during the regame) and wiping the floor of the rest of Startale. Boo-hoo there was a regame, but honestly it was fair and just instead of saying one player could win over the other, especially with Partings recent performance it is hard to just flat out call someone a victor because of what you can see. MKP is really, really good and probably would have shocked everyone. Well in the 2nd game MKP made sure not to make the same mistakes in the first game. Parting must have been pretty frustrated after they called a regame because he thought he deserved the win. People keep forgetting the impact that it had psychologically on the players. MKP was relieved and alert, Parting was frustrated. Also, remember Parting having to pause in the 2nd game? Thats yet another factor to add on to his frustration. MKP knows he didn't deserve the 2nd game, you could tell by his face. This was a huge call, and I for one think it was the wrong one.
Actually MKP was winning like the entire first game untill right before it cut out... when he was at a small disadvantage. So where exactly did he not make the same mistakes? When i watch it, I actaully see Parting changing his build more so to avoid the mistakes that HE made and better counter mkp's build in the first game. MKP did the same thing.... save for putting the starport in his natural the second game. Parting knew the exact same thing was coming... got a perfect scout with observers... got an extra archon i beleive, and still got rolled over. MKP knows he didn't deserve the 2nd game, you could tell by his face. Really, so you could read that exact thing from his face? you are quite talented. The better player that day clearly won and both players had a chance to fight till the death...ill take that any day over an awarded win because of disconnect
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On April 11 2012 13:31 LF9 wrote:
The thing almost everyone fails to understand is that in any tournament, according to the rules, the decision for.a regame is given when "no player has a clear advantage", and in cases where a player has a "clear advantage, in case of a disconnect, upon review of the game by judges, the player who is determined to have an advantageous position and/or is in a better position to win the game will be awarded the win". People keep saying things like "you can't say MKP 100% loses the game, so regame is the correct decision". You don't need to. No player is ever 100% certain to win any game. A player does not need to be in an un-losable situation to be awarded the win. He merely needs to be determined to have the advantage over the other player. Nowhere does it say anything about 100%. In fact, if you can say that a player will probably win the game in question 60% of the time, he is supposed to be given the win in such situations. Re-game is only called for if the game is completely even and no player has any advantage over the other, or it is less than 2 minutes into the game and no decisive engagement has taken place. People need to understand the rules first before commenting on whether the decision was correct or not. Read the above, and now make your decision. Was any player in a position of advantage to win the game 6 times out of 10?
Can you link something to this because this does not sound correct? I would be interested to know if this is gsl rules. It doesn't seem likely because who is to judge that one player is going to win 6/10 times? Why do we even play the games in the first place if we know exactly how good players are and who will win.
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Please Don't hate MKP or Prime For this. It is not their decision to re-game. 
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Meh, it is what it is. I've never been a fan of MKP or Prime in general so I have some bias, plus I didn't see the games myself since I had work, but from what I've read, Parting was ahead in the game. Still, DCs happen and I think there would've been more controversy if the game was given to Parting, mainly because there's way more MKP fanboys than for anyone on Startale. I personally find his playstyle boring, but I understand that most players do not.
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On April 11 2012 13:47 Surgical_Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 13:05 zumpy wrote:
Whether or not the win should have been given or not depending on the game. The after game graphs and post game analysis show Parting in the lead. Whether or not that was win worthy or not doesn't matter but a decision should be made in Parting's favor because he was in the lead. A regame isn't fair because it puts the players back on 'equal' footing when Parting was at an advantage.
I think that it either should of been turned into a bo3 with 1-0 in favor of Parting or a regame with Parting getting map choice. Or something else that is favorable to Parting... Yet MKP was winning 90% of the game, so he should lose because the game cut out at a point where he was down for a minute? that makes no sense.
Being ahead for 90% of the game is very different to having the game 99.5% won when it disconnects. There was just no way MKP was coming back in that game vs a Protoss who can warp in 15 units at a time, has 8 templar already on the field vs a couple of marauders plus useless vikings with units already on top of the barracks. MKP was drastically behind in army supply and composition with 9 useable barracks vs a 15 gate 5 base protoss that's sitting outside his production. Parting would've had to have a seizure to lose the game. It blows my mind how even the poll is, MKP bias is really strong apparently. I also don't get how the IPL ref's can analyse that replay and see any reason not to award Parting the win.
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i would have thought parting had this, he either could have gathered his army with his HT and pushed the main, or denied mining at the 4th and 5th, either way, 5min later at max mkp is dead imo, but i am no judge so ~
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here's my opinion. (and yes i was in the front row watching the game, marinekings gestures and body language, as far as i could tell, gave off the huge impression that he thought he had lost. this is all speculation though)
The most important part of it was that parting had 8 HT. Most people defending MKP's chance to come back in the game shrug this factor off because the HT were at partings base. The consensus is while mkp only had 3 marauders at the time about 30 supply was going to pop from his racks in a bit, and he could turtle up his main choke point with scv repairs/ marauder slows against partings mostly zlot army that was at his naturals ramp. I can understand this point of view if parting didnt have the HT, and would definitely agree with you that MKP had a good chance at coming back and the regame was the correct decision. However given the fact that parting could just walk 8HT across a map that is relatively not that large, how do you propose marineking turtle on his ramp against 8 storms when he has no 1)medivacs, 2) against an army vastly superior in supply 3) lots of that supply is in vikings.
The point is MKP can get 2 cycles off his racks in the time it takes parting to send his 8 HT to join his army at MKP's ramp. so he had 30 supply incoming in his cycle started already, 500 minerals left to start another cycle, with NO Medivacs. Im sorry but you just cant defend your ramp with scv repair/micro and that army supply compaired to partings FAR SUPERIOR army supply and 8 (or more depending on energy) storms. it just doesn't happen.
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On April 11 2012 12:37 Surgical_Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 11:46 Corsica wrote:On April 11 2012 03:18 00Visor wrote:relevant: (I didnt do this) ![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/2128lzk.jpg) This... also even MKP's micro wouldnt save him from defeat... Those numbers are just flat out incorrect. parting did not have that much.... and even less than what he had was on MKP's side of the map. most of it was at home. The supply that was about to pop out of his rax and starport was stronger than the force Parting had outside of MKP's base. It would have gotten thrown back and game would have gone on 5 base vs 5 base.... so regame made perfect sense.
prooflink?
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http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/314284087?t=2h11m
match is at about 2 hours and 11 minutes.
disconnect happens at about 2h 29m
If you watch the match you can clearly, CLEARLY see that parting was ahead
he had just come as a winner of a battle and had zealots and stalkers attacking production with almost no units from marineking to stop
yes MAYBE marineking's new cycle of units would have cleaned up but parting was also macroing still giving him an edge + with the warp prism you have no idea what would have happened but what is very clear is that parting was ahead and i think would have mostly won.
they should have gave parting the win.
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On April 11 2012 15:09 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 13:47 Surgical_Strike wrote:On April 11 2012 13:05 zumpy wrote:
Whether or not the win should have been given or not depending on the game. The after game graphs and post game analysis show Parting in the lead. Whether or not that was win worthy or not doesn't matter but a decision should be made in Parting's favor because he was in the lead. A regame isn't fair because it puts the players back on 'equal' footing when Parting was at an advantage.
I think that it either should of been turned into a bo3 with 1-0 in favor of Parting or a regame with Parting getting map choice. Or something else that is favorable to Parting... Yet MKP was winning 90% of the game, so he should lose because the game cut out at a point where he was down for a minute? that makes no sense. Being ahead for 90% of the game is very different to having the game 99.5% won when it disconnects. There was just no way MKP was coming back in that game vs a Protoss who can warp in 15 units at a time, has 8 templar already on the field vs a couple of marauders plus useless vikings with units already on top of the barracks. MKP was drastically behind in army supply and composition with 9 useable barracks vs a 15 gate 5 base protoss that's sitting outside his production. Parting would've had to have a seizure to lose the game. It blows my mind how even the poll is, MKP bias is really strong apparently. I also don't get how the IPL ref's can analyse that replay and see any reason not to award Parting the win.
none of what you just said remotely resembles how the game was at D/C you are blowing his lead wayyy out of proportion and misleading people... and you call others biased?
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On April 11 2012 16:30 Surgical_Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 15:09 Scarecrow wrote:On April 11 2012 13:47 Surgical_Strike wrote:On April 11 2012 13:05 zumpy wrote:
Whether or not the win should have been given or not depending on the game. The after game graphs and post game analysis show Parting in the lead. Whether or not that was win worthy or not doesn't matter but a decision should be made in Parting's favor because he was in the lead. A regame isn't fair because it puts the players back on 'equal' footing when Parting was at an advantage.
I think that it either should of been turned into a bo3 with 1-0 in favor of Parting or a regame with Parting getting map choice. Or something else that is favorable to Parting... Yet MKP was winning 90% of the game, so he should lose because the game cut out at a point where he was down for a minute? that makes no sense. Being ahead for 90% of the game is very different to having the game 99.5% won when it disconnects. There was just no way MKP was coming back in that game vs a Protoss who can warp in 15 units at a time, has 8 templar already on the field vs a couple of marauders plus useless vikings with units already on top of the barracks. MKP was drastically behind in army supply and composition with 9 useable barracks vs a 15 gate 5 base protoss that's sitting outside his production. Parting would've had to have a seizure to lose the game. It blows my mind how even the poll is, MKP bias is really strong apparently. I also don't get how the IPL ref's can analyse that replay and see any reason not to award Parting the win. none of what you just said remotely resembles how the game was at D/C you are blowing his lead wayyy out of proportion and misleading people... and you call others biased?
If it wasn't like that, how was it then?
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On April 11 2012 16:21 zumpy wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/314284087?t=2h11mmatch is at about 2 hours and 11 minutes. disconnect happens at about 2h 29m If you watch the match you can clearly, CLEARLY see that parting was ahead he had just come as a winner of a battle and had zealots and stalkers attacking production with almost no units from marineking to stop yes MAYBE marineking's new cycle of units would have cleaned up but parting was also macroing still giving him an edge + with the warp prism you have no idea what would have happened but what is very clear is that parting was ahead and i think would have mostly won. they should have gave parting the win.
you have no idea what would have happened that's the point... and why re-game was the right call. Terran with 5 bases and 5-6 orbitals vs protoss 5 base... each 2 of the best players in the world... even with an advantage for either player its anyone's game.... ok ive spent enough time arguing my point...
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Parting had it all the way, it kinda feels like a conspiracy to make MarineKing a consistent top player since SC2 is lacking, well, consistency. In any case, I'm disappointed for Parting - he played exceptionally brilliant in that game. It's just a shame that there has to be any call like this. LAN is the way of the future for eSports to be taken seriously. Nevertheless, I was also a bit disappointed in how long it took for the call to be made, especially if it wasn't going to end up in Parting's favor anyway. If you're going to call a regame it shouldn't take 20+ minutes to reach that decision.
Sigh. All of this controversy over networking.
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Parting had hardly any money, he couldnt keep up the warp ins he needed to finish the game there. If it didnt DC, MKP pulls scvs when his next round of rax units is out and holds that attack.
Was parting ahead? Yes. Was the game over? No.
Regame.
EDIT: The new korean starcraft organisation should get together with IPL, MLG and IEM and possibly kespa if this switching business is actually happening and get on blizzards case about LAN. So much money/prestige on the line and games are being fucked up by easily avoidable netwrok issues? Come on Blizzard. Seriously.
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the poll says it all.
regame was the right decision.
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EPT
