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On October 11 2011 22:58 KingPwny wrote:
I'm pretty sure if an American took the IPL 3, the forums would be going nuts. I for one, am extremely pleased that a european took the IPL in convincing and entertaining fashion (yes u should watch kiwi vs. stephano *drool*). I dont believe there is some crazy big change now in skill lvls, but that europeans are slowly catching up to the koreans and this shows. But make no mistake, the koreans are still the strongest. As for NA, well maybe someday they too can win big tournies, but it seems they have a long ways to go at the moment. :D WELL DONE STEPHANO! :D
...
What? Idra JUST won IEM not too long ago. Huk is the only foreigner in Code S and he's from... you guessed it, North America! It's like you were just trying to find a way to say "EU > NA" for some reason.
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IPL3 was pretty much the same as every other tournament (as far as placement of Koreans vs. foreigners go) with the exception of Stephano.
Little to no change.
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korea op.
"upsets" are small koreans beating big ones
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Pretty much nothing changed imo. I don't want to play down Stephano's win, I think he's among the Top 3 foreigners atm, but the opponents he faced along the way shouldn't be used as a yardstick to measure Foreign players with koreans because none of the attending players was even in the near of Top World Class.
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I picture it like this. The skilltrain is leaving slowly, but it's accelerating and the Koreans are already on it, the foreigners have to catch it before it's too late; the skilltrain will be out of their reach and moving too fast.
At the moment it seems the foreigners are barely catching the train.
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Very mid tier koreans beaten by tip top foreigners. Honestly I would discouraged by people like HuK a "top foreigner" going out so early, and all the other foreigners who keep losing ro32 in Code A.
So nope, no change.
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Fun fact: percentages add up to 101 atm (50/41/10)
Changed my opinion compared to what? 
Compared to BW we came a long long way. But its not like foreigners dominated the tourney. Stephano won! And I am very happy about it!! But I always thought we had a chance against the koreans. Like in TSL.
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On October 12 2011 04:15 Oreo7 wrote:
Very mid tier koreans beaten by tip top foreigners. Honestly I would discouraged by people like HuK a "top foreigner" going out so early, and all the other foreigners who keep losing ro32 in Code A.
So nope, no change.
MMA, PuMa, TheSTC and Lucky who made a nice entry. Sure when foreigners beat Korean at non-lan it's because of lags, and when it's a lan, they're all newbs so it doesn't count.
Can we just say that the gaps is reducing little by little ? If a monster like Stephano grew up with only 4hours a day and no house gaming, imagine what we can do ...
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Foreigner as a whole will never surpass Koreans due to the competitveness and large influx of mechanic skills transferred from Broodwar B-teams. However the hard working and talented foreigners will always stand a chance,same things happen in Broodwar such as Draco, PJ, Legend etc....
Def. a big improvement over Broodwar though, many foreign Broodwar "progamers" weren't even close to being as good as Korean amateur players.
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When foreigner wins gsl then they will change a little
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i never believed that the skill difference was there, it was only the practice regimen in my opinion.
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You guys are so negative and in my eyes kind of retarded.
If any korean wins an event it's "OMG they're so good!!!"(doens't matter which korean wins it too...) but when a foreigner wins it, it's "oh that isn't The best korean player and therefor it doesn't count."
Really?... If anything the question most of you are answering is how much better are the top players. not how well do korean and foreginer players do against eachother because obviously they can compete against one another with good games.
Besides Dimaga has beaten ImNestea and Huk has beaten MC. Surely that means that the "Gosu Koreans" can be touched. Oh right i forget that was just a 1 best of 3 and he got lucky or Nestea wasn't trying or since it was mirror matchup which is 100% luck(Herp Durp!)
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we all thought it was going to be BW all over again.
...I guess not.
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On October 11 2011 14:44 endy wrote:
Only a handful of foreigners can defeat Koreans, and not even consistently. Nothing changed.
My thoughts exactly, a few players get some wins and almost every one is getting ahead of them-self.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:21 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 22:58 KingPwny wrote:
I'm pretty sure if an American took the IPL 3, the forums would be going nuts. I for one, am extremely pleased that a european took the IPL in convincing and entertaining fashion (yes u should watch kiwi vs. stephano *drool*). I dont believe there is some crazy big change now in skill lvls, but that europeans are slowly catching up to the koreans and this shows. But make no mistake, the koreans are still the strongest. As for NA, well maybe someday they too can win big tournies, but it seems they have a long ways to go at the moment. :D WELL DONE STEPHANO! :D ... What? Idra JUST won IEM not too long ago. Huk is the only foreigner in Code S and he's from... you guessed it, North America! It's like you were just trying to find a way to say "EU > NA" for some reason.
As great as idra's win was, i think it's hard to say that it was a defining moment for foreigners turning the ship around. He did have a tough time in groups and while his games vs Puma were really well played, there was clearly a few other factors at hand (namely, the condition of TvZ). I think the real big test is MLG.
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I'm dissapointed in this poll.
Idra and Jinro proved 6+ months ago that the top foreigners could compete with all but the best of the Koreans. (Even then, they both showed they could take games off of guys like MC or MVP)
Why is this being brought up now?
Idra beat Puma, a Code B player in IEM
Stephano beat Lucky and theStc, Code B/A players.
The only real suprise was Ret beating Alive. But then he got smashed by another korean the next round.
Fact: The average Korean pro is better than the average foreigner pro.
Fact: Top foreigner pros can compete with all but the pinnacle of Korean pros. And even, they can give them a run for their money once in a while.
Opinion/Fact: Foreigners are ocassionally going to beat top level koreans. However, 9/10, it will be the other way around.
P.S.
Stephano is good. He's not Code S though. Don't make him out to be something like that until he actually does it.
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Have some more foreigners go to Korea, just to make sure.
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Considering the amazing rounds that some foreigners had, and Stephano's domination of big names, my perception somewhat changed. I mean the event wasn't a one day thing, they can hardly blame the jet lag. A lot of other foreigners did great too, though that's not really represented in the Top 10. Regardless, the Korean's game mechanics and understanding might make them strong but foreigners are unsurpassed in creativity. Unfortunately creativity can only take you so far but mechanics and understanding is something you can learn and practice. If foreigners adopted the korean model for a significant amount of time there is no doubt in my mind that they would compete with the koreans at the highest level.
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I think its starting to change though we are not there yet and still have quite a ways to go. I think the biggest thing (that is good for everyone) is that there is alot more practicing and training going on between the Koreans and the foreigners now. I mean Artist joined team Reign and Puma joined EG so those players are obviously helping bring up some of the skill level for the members of those teams. Also the Red Bull training session thing i think helped a lot of pros with their training. I believe Whitera said that he played like 40 games with Bomber in one day... so i think in another 3-6 months we will see a drastic change.
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am i the only one who thinks that this elleged "skill gap" between foreigners (which btw is a wierd term to use for non korean events as by definition the koreans are then the foreigners) and koreans will become a non issue when the non-koreans and the associated communty stops going on about the skill gap and just gets their heads into SC and practice practice practice like the koreans do?
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EPT
