• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:43
CEST 06:43
KST 13:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview4[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
Travel Agencies vs Online Booking Platforms The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1383 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 13 14 15 Next All
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
October 11 2011 14:32 GMT
#81
i never thought koreans were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much ahead as everyone else eventhough they were

so nothing changed for me here xD
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
October 11 2011 14:33 GMT
#82
STEPHANO

all that needs to be said.
#freeshauni
DeadCell
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada256 Posts
October 11 2011 14:34 GMT
#83
I much more impressed with Stephano's 4-0 over Lucky;

It wasn't even close. I was really expecting it to be a little more drawn out then that.

After Idra had defeated Puma, I was quite confident he would win;

He had to go through Revival, and THEN Puma. Quite the task if you ask me.
If it comes down to you or them, send flowers.
ComusLoM
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Norway3547 Posts
October 11 2011 14:45 GMT
#84
IEM was barely a tournament given the entrants and IPL just enforces that Koreans are the best, but we do have a few shining hopes.
"The White Woman Speaks in Tongues That Are All Lies" - Incontrol; Member #37 of the Chill Fanclub
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
October 11 2011 14:46 GMT
#85
Very top foreigner players beating low to mid tier Koreans doesn't mean much to me, but I guess it's a start for them at least.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
October 11 2011 15:07 GMT
#86
In other words, MVP and NesTea are gods.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
mnck
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1518 Posts
October 11 2011 15:12 GMT
#87
I agree with Waxangel! Nothing new that maybe on a good day the very best foreigners could take down mid-level Koreans. A foreigner isn't going to win a code S anytime soon. Stephano's run was quite extraordinary tho, but I dont think it will copied by anyone, any time soon. IdrA's victory was nothing special.
@Munck
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38257 Posts
October 11 2011 15:14 GMT
#88
Doesn't really change much for me.

Might be a bit cynical but this was bound to happen at some point given the nature of the game; it needs to become a repeated trend before I think it will really affect my perception of where the balance of power lies though.

Chances are that this weekend IEM NY gets rolled by TOP (if he's not too worried about his up&down group) and a KR player takes down MLG too, and then everything looks the same as it did before.
Haustka
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
October 11 2011 15:29 GMT
#89
Stephano is the special case, not man foreigners can do what Stephano did in IPL3. I have to say Stephano has chance to become #1 if he chooses to go to Korea to practice.

However, if foreigners have any chance of beating Koreans in their own soil, they need to have system thats similar or same to what Korea offers to their players. The major reason why foreigners are struggling compare to Koreans is purely coming from the practice. Koreans have the right system that supports quality and quantity of practice to success in the esports. As long as foreigners dont get that similar amount and quality practices, we will never reach the level that Koreans have.
Power of Human Will
Ryncol
Profile Joined July 2011
United States980 Posts
October 11 2011 15:32 GMT
#90
On October 11 2011 23:19 Choboo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

You do know that Elfi, Kiwikaki and Mana has also beat Nada right?


Frankly, I don't really think that Nada is a top level Korean. He seems more like an upper mid-tier player to me. I don't think that any of those player's wins over him are as big as Thorzain's over MC.
coolzombie
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden25 Posts
October 11 2011 15:44 GMT
#91
Nothing has changed. We have nothing on the Koreans yet. We will one day though
as
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
October 11 2011 15:52 GMT
#92
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.


This right here. I always thought the best foreigners could do moderately well against the Koreans, even some top-tier, but Thorzain over MC, man, I cried, almost. Those games were great.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
October 11 2011 16:04 GMT
#93
no change at all for me.
It wasnt filled with high level koreans at all imo

and yet every korean lost to another korean, apart from idra vs artist (come on, wtf was that about?) Ret vs alive and ofc stephanos run.

stephano played brilliantly, but i think people are slightly bigging him up. I dont think he'd take out the likes of mvp, mma, DRG.

one tournament, where a foreigner wins that has pretty much all the best non koreans in, and only a handful of decent koreans, and people think that all koreans are suddenly worse or something

we'll see after a few more MLGsd and such, until then, there is still a huge gap in skill imo
Voldron
Profile Joined February 2011
Greece91 Posts
October 11 2011 16:14 GMT
#94
On October 11 2011 14:43 Waxangel wrote:
Hmm, considering that I always thought the BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans, and they still have almost no chance against the BEST Koreans, I don't think much has changed for me.

Look at me, replying to my own poll o/

100%
Wallice
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway10 Posts
October 11 2011 16:21 GMT
#95
I always thought the best foreigners (e.g. Naniwa, HuK, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano etc) would be around high code A. Or at best in low code S (HuK), not able to compete with high code S players.
Wahuu~
LeKiNGG
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada110 Posts
October 11 2011 16:28 GMT
#96
At the IPL I thought stephano was alone in the competition, he completly demolished everyone, but I still think top tier Koreans are the best...
IdrA and Stephano fighting!
CNSnow
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Greece67 Posts
October 11 2011 16:49 GMT
#97
I think that there are a few Korean that are on top and unbeatable and I don't even mention MC like one of them cause he is down from code A AND foreigner can beat him. I see the last months more and more foreigners becoming better and better and at the moment only a few Zergs and some (code S) of Terrans are unbeatable!

I see this gap will come to an end in helf year or a little more!
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
October 11 2011 17:11 GMT
#98
It changed my opinion on Stephano a lot. I thought he was a mid-level never go anywhere player. I definitely would have ranked him below Sheth, but now, I think he's up there, and could take 2-3 ZvZs from Idra in a b07.
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
ptrpb
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada753 Posts
October 11 2011 17:16 GMT
#99
My perspective has changed a bit because originally when we saw ThorZain and NaNiwa go to Code A. they seemingly got wrecked in their matches (I know they were jet lagged and had not practised). Fast forward to now.. IdrA taking a 3-0 on Puma and Stephano rolling through Lucky, the skill gap seems smaller. Koreans are still the top dogs, and the top Koreans can till easily dismantle the top foreigners, I would really love to see MVP vs Stephano bo5 to really show how much closer foreigners are to closing the gap.
MBAACC | SG | shit at fighting games
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
October 11 2011 17:59 GMT
#100
It has been long that many foresaw the power of multiple Europeans. Also IdrA has randomly perfomed beastly since the beginning of SC2 beta.

So no, I have never, or at least in multiple months, felt that koreans would be above others.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft558
ROOTCatZ 179
NeuroSwarm 169
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6404
Sea 2998
HiyA 93
Noble 21
Bale 20
Icarus 3
League of Legends
JimRising 828
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 560
Other Games
summit1g16029
monkeys_forever310
Maynarde141
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick807
BasetradeTV200
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Mapu2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki27
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1318
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 17m
Wardi Open
7h 17m
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 17m
Replay Cast
19h 17m
The PondCast
1d 5h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 6h
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Flash vs Soma
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
2026 GSL S1
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.