• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:41
CET 13:41
KST 21:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !2Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1975 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 13 14 15 Next All
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
October 11 2011 14:32 GMT
#81
i never thought koreans were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much ahead as everyone else eventhough they were

so nothing changed for me here xD
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
October 11 2011 14:33 GMT
#82
STEPHANO

all that needs to be said.
#freeshauni
DeadCell
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada256 Posts
October 11 2011 14:34 GMT
#83
I much more impressed with Stephano's 4-0 over Lucky;

It wasn't even close. I was really expecting it to be a little more drawn out then that.

After Idra had defeated Puma, I was quite confident he would win;

He had to go through Revival, and THEN Puma. Quite the task if you ask me.
If it comes down to you or them, send flowers.
ComusLoM
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Norway3547 Posts
October 11 2011 14:45 GMT
#84
IEM was barely a tournament given the entrants and IPL just enforces that Koreans are the best, but we do have a few shining hopes.
"The White Woman Speaks in Tongues That Are All Lies" - Incontrol; Member #37 of the Chill Fanclub
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
October 11 2011 14:46 GMT
#85
Very top foreigner players beating low to mid tier Koreans doesn't mean much to me, but I guess it's a start for them at least.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
October 11 2011 15:07 GMT
#86
In other words, MVP and NesTea are gods.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
mnck
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1518 Posts
October 11 2011 15:12 GMT
#87
I agree with Waxangel! Nothing new that maybe on a good day the very best foreigners could take down mid-level Koreans. A foreigner isn't going to win a code S anytime soon. Stephano's run was quite extraordinary tho, but I dont think it will copied by anyone, any time soon. IdrA's victory was nothing special.
@Munck
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38257 Posts
October 11 2011 15:14 GMT
#88
Doesn't really change much for me.

Might be a bit cynical but this was bound to happen at some point given the nature of the game; it needs to become a repeated trend before I think it will really affect my perception of where the balance of power lies though.

Chances are that this weekend IEM NY gets rolled by TOP (if he's not too worried about his up&down group) and a KR player takes down MLG too, and then everything looks the same as it did before.
Haustka
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
October 11 2011 15:29 GMT
#89
Stephano is the special case, not man foreigners can do what Stephano did in IPL3. I have to say Stephano has chance to become #1 if he chooses to go to Korea to practice.

However, if foreigners have any chance of beating Koreans in their own soil, they need to have system thats similar or same to what Korea offers to their players. The major reason why foreigners are struggling compare to Koreans is purely coming from the practice. Koreans have the right system that supports quality and quantity of practice to success in the esports. As long as foreigners dont get that similar amount and quality practices, we will never reach the level that Koreans have.
Power of Human Will
Ryncol
Profile Joined July 2011
United States980 Posts
October 11 2011 15:32 GMT
#90
On October 11 2011 23:19 Choboo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

You do know that Elfi, Kiwikaki and Mana has also beat Nada right?


Frankly, I don't really think that Nada is a top level Korean. He seems more like an upper mid-tier player to me. I don't think that any of those player's wins over him are as big as Thorzain's over MC.
coolzombie
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden25 Posts
October 11 2011 15:44 GMT
#91
Nothing has changed. We have nothing on the Koreans yet. We will one day though
as
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
October 11 2011 15:52 GMT
#92
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.


This right here. I always thought the best foreigners could do moderately well against the Koreans, even some top-tier, but Thorzain over MC, man, I cried, almost. Those games were great.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
October 11 2011 16:04 GMT
#93
no change at all for me.
It wasnt filled with high level koreans at all imo

and yet every korean lost to another korean, apart from idra vs artist (come on, wtf was that about?) Ret vs alive and ofc stephanos run.

stephano played brilliantly, but i think people are slightly bigging him up. I dont think he'd take out the likes of mvp, mma, DRG.

one tournament, where a foreigner wins that has pretty much all the best non koreans in, and only a handful of decent koreans, and people think that all koreans are suddenly worse or something

we'll see after a few more MLGsd and such, until then, there is still a huge gap in skill imo
Voldron
Profile Joined February 2011
Greece91 Posts
October 11 2011 16:14 GMT
#94
On October 11 2011 14:43 Waxangel wrote:
Hmm, considering that I always thought the BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans, and they still have almost no chance against the BEST Koreans, I don't think much has changed for me.

Look at me, replying to my own poll o/

100%
Wallice
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway10 Posts
October 11 2011 16:21 GMT
#95
I always thought the best foreigners (e.g. Naniwa, HuK, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano etc) would be around high code A. Or at best in low code S (HuK), not able to compete with high code S players.
Wahuu~
LeKiNGG
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada110 Posts
October 11 2011 16:28 GMT
#96
At the IPL I thought stephano was alone in the competition, he completly demolished everyone, but I still think top tier Koreans are the best...
IdrA and Stephano fighting!
CNSnow
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Greece67 Posts
October 11 2011 16:49 GMT
#97
I think that there are a few Korean that are on top and unbeatable and I don't even mention MC like one of them cause he is down from code A AND foreigner can beat him. I see the last months more and more foreigners becoming better and better and at the moment only a few Zergs and some (code S) of Terrans are unbeatable!

I see this gap will come to an end in helf year or a little more!
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
October 11 2011 17:11 GMT
#98
It changed my opinion on Stephano a lot. I thought he was a mid-level never go anywhere player. I definitely would have ranked him below Sheth, but now, I think he's up there, and could take 2-3 ZvZs from Idra in a b07.
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
ptrpb
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada753 Posts
October 11 2011 17:16 GMT
#99
My perspective has changed a bit because originally when we saw ThorZain and NaNiwa go to Code A. they seemingly got wrecked in their matches (I know they were jet lagged and had not practised). Fast forward to now.. IdrA taking a 3-0 on Puma and Stephano rolling through Lucky, the skill gap seems smaller. Koreans are still the top dogs, and the top Koreans can till easily dismantle the top foreigners, I would really love to see MVP vs Stephano bo5 to really show how much closer foreigners are to closing the gap.
MBAACC | SG | shit at fighting games
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
October 11 2011 17:59 GMT
#100
It has been long that many foresaw the power of multiple Europeans. Also IdrA has randomly perfomed beastly since the beginning of SC2 beta.

So no, I have never, or at least in multiple months, felt that koreans would be above others.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Playoffs
MaNa vs GeraldLIVE!
TBD vs uThermal
TBD vs Shameless
TBD vs MaxPax
ByuN vs TBD
Spirit vs ShoWTimE
WardiTV614
ComeBackTV 348
TaKeTV 199
Rex102
IndyStarCraft 95
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 102
IndyStarCraft 95
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34229
Horang2 3623
Bisu 1500
Jaedong 1002
Shuttle 939
Mini 362
EffOrt 330
actioN 316
Larva 308
BeSt 286
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 276
Soma 272
Rush 222
Last 220
Sharp 175
Killer 149
Zeus 146
Snow 134
ZerO 123
Mong 86
Yoon 85
Pusan 81
JYJ 75
ggaemo 71
PianO 62
Aegong 56
Mind 56
sorry 54
Hyun 52
Movie 33
Trikslyr29
soO 24
Shinee 21
yabsab 20
scan(afreeca) 15
Shine 13
GoRush 12
Noble 9
Terrorterran 7
League of Legends
C9.Mang0348
rGuardiaN147
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1085
x6flipin361
byalli175
Other Games
B2W.Neo1238
Fuzer 259
Pyrionflax251
XaKoH 155
RotterdaM135
Sick111
Mew2King58
Livibee31
ZerO(Twitch)8
QueenE1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH194
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen38
League of Legends
• Jankos1673
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 20m
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
21h 20m
WardiTV 2025
1d
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
1d 22h
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.