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Active: 1380 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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Goshdarnit
Profile Joined August 2011
United States540 Posts
October 15 2011 14:55 GMT
#281
Well I don't appreciate the fact that despite there being some top level koreans in IPL 3 no one seemed to acknowledge it. I mean yes people are conceding the fact that stephano won iPL 3, ya lucky won a BO victory but still he won 3-0. I think stephano and maybe some other players soon (this is vague) could hang with the top (like code S koreans, not top 5 ro even 8 at given times) koreans on good days. I am in no way saying that any foreigner could beat the top 3 koreans in a Bo5 but outside of that 3 I believe some foreigners genuinely have a chance to defeat most any korean, not consistently but in a best of 3-5 I think almost anything is possible at this point.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
October 15 2011 16:55 GMT
#282
If we're talking the very best Koreans, even the other Koreans have serious trouble beating them. I mean, are we calling everyone under MVP and Nestea 'mid-tier'?
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
October 15 2011 18:10 GMT
#283
This is sc2, it was basically made the way it was so that foreigners wouldn't bend over to the might of the koreans like they always did in sc1. So no.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 15 2011 18:29 GMT
#284
People are spoiled by Nestea and MLP.
Yeah, perhaps foreigner can beat these 2 ( even if Dimaga do it once against each ) but every other koreans, even the code S one ? I would not put my bet on them everytime.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
WeaVerPrime
Profile Joined May 2011
34 Posts
October 15 2011 19:18 GMT
#285
i'm surprised to read phrase like "BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans "...
now i know that MMA (code S finalist now!) is a mediocre koreans...

LOL ^^
TicketoHELL
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada368 Posts
October 15 2011 22:44 GMT
#286
On October 16 2011 04:18 WeaVerPrime wrote:
i'm surprised to read phrase like "BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans "...
now i know that MMA (code S finalist now!) is a mediocre koreans...

LOL ^^

i dont remember MMA losing to foreigners...if youre talking about ipl he lost to lucky another korean
(づ.ㅡ) 부비적 (ㅡ.ど) 부비적 (づ.ど) 부비부비
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
October 15 2011 23:58 GMT
#287
3 of the top 4 at IPL are Koreans, I don't see that indicative of any changes but one or two foreigners rising up.

That is just like Yao Ming being good at basketball, but you don't see people suddenly going "yay Asians are catching up to the West in their basketball skills"
backtoback
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1276 Posts
October 16 2011 01:44 GMT
#288
On October 15 2011 05:20 clanbrown wrote:
there is no skill gap. skill is an illusion, its all about practice and understanding the game.

koreans practice more so they understand more...thats it.


except skill comes from practicing..... therefore your statement has a contradiction
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
October 16 2011 02:36 GMT
#289
Looks like a lot of Korea fanboys >.>

People need to realize that progamers are progamers, and the simple fact is this: The more exposure foreigners have to Korean gameplay, the smaller and smaller the gap will get. This is just an undeniable truth of competitive communities.

I'm sure the NesTea and MVP groupies will scoff until the day a foreigner is elected president of Korea, but foreigners are looking great in tourneys.

I'd love to see a close WCG at some point- and we're closer to that than ever.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
zdfgucker
Profile Joined August 2011
China594 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-16 07:00:54
October 16 2011 06:59 GMT
#290
There's a reason why foreigners haven't made it far in GSL recently. It's one thing going through mainly foreigners and some Koreans but going through GSL with many, many more top players is different.

Aside from that Korea has so much potential left, just think of all the BW Code A players that might switch prior to or for HotS. That's a shitload of at least MVP-level players that might enter the battlefield and leave the current top-tier players behind. Not even mentioning the BW Code S players as they are a league of their own.

So for me nothing has changed.
fLDm
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
October 16 2011 10:46 GMT
#291
On October 16 2011 07:44 TicketoHELL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2011 04:18 WeaVerPrime wrote:
i'm surprised to read phrase like "BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans "...
now i know that MMA (code S finalist now!) is a mediocre koreans...

LOL ^^

i dont remember MMA losing to foreigners...if youre talking about ipl he lost to lucky another korean
He lost to Stephano in the 3rd qualifier final (1-2).
It was online however, so people tend to dismiss the result. But from the way MMA played, he didn't play bad at all, he seemed to be playing his best, Stephano just played slightly better that match..
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
October 16 2011 12:25 GMT
#292
On October 16 2011 11:36 Crownlol wrote:
Looks like a lot of Korea fanboys >.>

People need to realize that progamers are progamers, and the simple fact is this: The more exposure foreigners have to Korean gameplay, the smaller and smaller the gap will get. This is just an undeniable truth of competitive communities.

I'm sure the NesTea and MVP groupies will scoff until the day a foreigner is elected president of Korea, but foreigners are looking great in tourneys.

I'd love to see a close WCG at some point- and we're closer to that than ever.


Or perhaps, in four years when all the expansions have come out, and perhaps the skill cap has been raised so that 3 hours of practices no longer beats 8 hours, will we actually see "undeniable truth" in a competitive community.

Once more and more talented Koreans start playing this game in its finished state, the larger the gap will get. See, I can dish out pointless speculation too.

-_-
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-16 14:38:16
October 16 2011 14:37 GMT
#293
wrong
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
October 16 2011 15:44 GMT
#294
On October 16 2011 01:55 The KY wrote:
If we're talking the very best Koreans, even the other Koreans have serious trouble beating them. I mean, are we calling everyone under MVP and Nestea 'mid-tier'?

You do realize that Nestea was pretty mid tier in BW... imagine if the creme of the crop SC1 pros switched over to SC2. I don't mean players like BoxeR who are way past their prime, I mean current height of their career players. SC2 itself closes the skill gap somewhat since it is so much less mechanically demanding but seriously, foreigners can't even touch NesTea right now... how do you think they would fare against JaeDong? Get real people... SC2 isn't nearly as big in KR as it is here. Koreans still own white dudes, and until foreign CULTURE changes and the negative stigma on E-Sports are lessened it will always be that way.
eoLithic
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway221 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-16 16:08:05
October 16 2011 16:06 GMT
#295
I guess I`m abit suprised that TL chose such a poll. What is the point of it exactly?

The fact that millenium.stephano had a goon run and won a major tournament doesn`t make Koreans worse, nor does it makes foreigners better. Foreingers in general get stomped by koreans, but some foreigners occasionally has a pretty good run in tournaments with alot of koreans in it, can`t really say it justifies any conclusion as to wether the skill gap between the scenes has decreased.

Also, teamliquid members also seems to be very critical of small samples, oh well do I really have to point out how small the sample that resulted in this poll was?

Kind of a shit poll in my opinion, we can allready see that things are back to normal over at MLG and IEM.

On topic: little to no change.

Reason? Koreans are simply alot better and stomps most foreigners, about it for this poll imo.
"You`re a pro or you`re a noob...that`s life"
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
October 16 2011 17:44 GMT
#296
I feel that in the long-run, the more spontaneous growth of the foreign scene will be better for growing players than the subsidized Korean scene. The korean scene for me feels like that communist country that could only exist because of the aid and subsidies Soviet Union granted it. Once that dries up, unless it can get a source of revenue somewhere else, then the korean scene will most likely collapse.

Of course I can be wrong since I don't follow SC2 closely. That's just how I feel, though.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 17 2011 04:48 GMT
#297
people have to remember that the current sc2 korean player pool is composed of mostly fringe ex-bw players.

you don't even need to bring up flash jaedong etc. the top 20 in bw right now are made up of players at least in the same class as mvp, who is being talked about as a G_d for having A team progamer basics. yea the scene outside of korea is growing, but korea has a huge huge head start with the bw players.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
whitelly
Profile Joined May 2011
Czech Republic50 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 20:48:49
October 20 2011 20:40 GMT
#298
Excsuse korean scene newbie but if slayers boxer,mma,ryung or oGsSK.MC are not the best,who is?

And if so,how come stephano won that tournament? He was just lucky?
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