• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:59
CET 10:59
KST 18:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)5Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker7PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)11Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Recent recommended BW games [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Sex and weight loss Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3077 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
tredogz
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada170 Posts
October 11 2011 06:35 GMT
#21
I have never thought there was that big of a gap between foreigners and Koreans.. I do NOT think Koreans play better than foreigners
t to the redogz, tredogz
Kaizoku
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden96 Posts
October 11 2011 06:40 GMT
#22
On October 11 2011 14:57 Slusher wrote:
Lucky beating MMA and Ryung was a bigger suprise than Stephano beating Lucky


+1

User was warned for this post
Failure is success if we learn from it.
blacktar
Profile Joined June 2011
United States49 Posts
October 11 2011 06:45 GMT
#23
Until foreigners actually make progress in code s and eventually win it wonlt change my mind much
KIKIZerg
Profile Joined April 2011
26 Posts
October 11 2011 06:49 GMT
#24
the only diffrence is the practise. I think they play more and got better opponements on top level.
for the rest, i dont see any diffrence...
RiT4LiN
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands131 Posts
October 11 2011 06:53 GMT
#25
I did not think a player like stephano could beat the koreans in this fashion. So my opinion has changed but i have to say it. NesTea and MVP did not attend to the tournament. And i still think they can not be defeated in a bo5
A quote
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
October 11 2011 06:54 GMT
#26
On October 11 2011 15:35 ThaZenith wrote:
Opinions on something as major as a skill level difference shouldn't change over a weekend or two.

If foreigners take half the tournaments over the course of 2-3 months, then I'll acknowledge it.


Agreed.


However, there is a small improvement from like the early MLG era. The first MLG that did Korean invites, I think foreigners took like a total of 5 MAPS off Korean players. It was that bad.

Still, the improvement isn't massive, so I voted little to none.
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
October 11 2011 06:59 GMT
#27
All I can say to foreign sc2 fans is, be happy the top koreans play bw, because if they didnt it would kill our scene or at least any chance of taking top spots

Though sc2 is a bit "chancy" to be PC about it
sickoota
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada918 Posts
October 11 2011 07:06 GMT
#28
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

Mana and Elfi both also beat Nada.
I could spend a while with that smile
Lann555
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands5173 Posts
October 11 2011 07:07 GMT
#29
Too few games for me to change my opinion. I wouldn't consider Inori/Lucky/StC to be exactly top-level Koreans.

Really, it was only Stephano anyway who prevented it from being another Korean dominated event and the guy is just a remarkable talent, so he might not be an accurate skill-gauge for the the entire foreign scene.

To really say the skill-gap has decreased , you need to have some players like MVP/Bomber/Nestea/DRG or even a July/MMA/Losira/Top/Polt going down in BO5 to foreigner
Fantasy Fan! Gogogo vultures
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
October 11 2011 07:12 GMT
#30
I don't think any foreigner has a chance of taking out the very very best koreans (Nestea / MVP) in a series, but I no longer think the skill gap between the top foreigners and the average code S players is that large...
:)
Rachnar
Profile Joined October 2010
France1526 Posts
October 11 2011 07:15 GMT
#31
On October 11 2011 15:04 R0YAL wrote:
The thing is that it's Korea vs the rest of the world and Korea still has the best of the best as well as a greater number of great players. Surely there will be a few individuals throughout the entirety of the planet that can compete with some of the better Koreans. But you have to remember that it's literally everyone vs the Koreans so a few players competing with the Koreans doesn't mean that foreigners as a whole can compete with Korea.


thing is, in korea there's almsot as many people that play starcraft as in the rest of the world ...

anyways, Korean's aren't human's, they're above us :p
"What if it's a triple DK ?" "Then we cry" "Prepare your handkerchief then ..."
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
October 11 2011 07:31 GMT
#32
Our absolute top against there mid to good tier players yes they take games sometimes even a set.
But it is not consistent and more often they do not win, also there absolute top is simply better.

So ... nothing changed, but it's such a good feeling to get a big tourney one's in a while.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
October 11 2011 07:41 GMT
#33
If one looks at the whole tournament and not just the results of Stephano and Idra it is still quite obvious that Koreans are still far ahead of foreigners. Outside of the top2-3 best performing foreigners there isn't anyone who shows the skill to consistency beat even code-a level Koreans.
MotherOfRunes
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2862 Posts
October 11 2011 07:43 GMT
#34
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

nahhhh goody beating NESTEA (altough i know nestea had to play with KR on NA lag while thorzain and mc played their tsl match at a LAN event )
"Your Razor sucks!" -Kuroky's Dad
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
October 11 2011 07:45 GMT
#35
not the most impressive koreans were sent to IEM in my opinion.
arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
October 11 2011 07:48 GMT
#36
No. It just further proves that at the top level, anyone can beat anyone because of the volatility of SC2 but overall Koreans dominate.
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 11 2011 07:52 GMT
#37
Moderately imo. Things just looked so damn grim for awhile. We almost had 4 foreigners in the top 8 at IPL, but Huk played terribly vs Inori (who did play well). Sure it wasn't a slew of Code S players at either tournament, but dammit it was good to see and gave me some more hope.

MLG Orlando will probably change this though as pretty much every Korean there with be Code S level... including the open bracket guys.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
October 11 2011 07:56 GMT
#38
I think there are about 10 foreigners who can beat the top 50 koreans. I doodle little power rankings in the margins of my notebook sometimes (one way you know you watch too much Sc2) and Stephano was #1 last week. So not surprised.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
October 11 2011 08:04 GMT
#39
Same, little to no change. I consider MMA as the only top Korean who participated in IPL 3 and he was eliminated by another Korean. And no disrespect to Lucky but the 3:0 was entirely a build order win.
jyisvip
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada209 Posts
October 11 2011 08:24 GMT
#40
On October 11 2011 15:35 tredogz wrote:
I have never thought there was that big of a gap between foreigners and Koreans.. I do NOT think Koreans play better than foreigners



I guess you weren't watching most of the tournaments...
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft356
SortOf 209
ProTech119
FoxeR 63
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6492
Flash 2455
Sea 2127
actioN 568
Larva 280
Soulkey 234
Shuttle 210
Mong 137
Mini 125
Leta 122
[ Show more ]
Pusan 120
Stork 117
Sharp 91
Soma 80
Shine 70
Killer 49
Light 42
Barracks 41
JulyZerg 38
ZerO 37
ToSsGirL 32
Rush 30
GoRush 26
Aegong 26
Snow 25
Backho 20
NaDa 19
Hm[arnc] 16
Sacsri 15
scan(afreeca) 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Terrorterran 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm125
League of Legends
JimRising 377
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1235
byalli209
kRYSTAL_21
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King127
Other Games
gofns15742
Liquid`RaSZi885
ceh9524
C9.Mang0427
Happy423
XaKoH 240
Fuzer 135
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick787
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 48
UltimateBattle 40
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings7
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1094
• Stunt521
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1m
KCM Race Survival
1m
LiuLi Cup
1h 1m
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
14h 1m
Online Event
1d
LiuLi Cup
1d 1h
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
Big Brain Bouts
1d 7h
Serral vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-10
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.