• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:50
CEST 17:50
KST 00:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 213ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon315.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes38Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes IP For new Brazil servers for NA Players Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon
Tourneys
Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 HomeStory Cup 29 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5273 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
tredogz
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada170 Posts
October 11 2011 06:35 GMT
#21
I have never thought there was that big of a gap between foreigners and Koreans.. I do NOT think Koreans play better than foreigners
t to the redogz, tredogz
Kaizoku
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden96 Posts
October 11 2011 06:40 GMT
#22
On October 11 2011 14:57 Slusher wrote:
Lucky beating MMA and Ryung was a bigger suprise than Stephano beating Lucky


+1

User was warned for this post
Failure is success if we learn from it.
blacktar
Profile Joined June 2011
United States49 Posts
October 11 2011 06:45 GMT
#23
Until foreigners actually make progress in code s and eventually win it wonlt change my mind much
KIKIZerg
Profile Joined April 2011
26 Posts
October 11 2011 06:49 GMT
#24
the only diffrence is the practise. I think they play more and got better opponements on top level.
for the rest, i dont see any diffrence...
RiT4LiN
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands131 Posts
October 11 2011 06:53 GMT
#25
I did not think a player like stephano could beat the koreans in this fashion. So my opinion has changed but i have to say it. NesTea and MVP did not attend to the tournament. And i still think they can not be defeated in a bo5
A quote
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
October 11 2011 06:54 GMT
#26
On October 11 2011 15:35 ThaZenith wrote:
Opinions on something as major as a skill level difference shouldn't change over a weekend or two.

If foreigners take half the tournaments over the course of 2-3 months, then I'll acknowledge it.


Agreed.


However, there is a small improvement from like the early MLG era. The first MLG that did Korean invites, I think foreigners took like a total of 5 MAPS off Korean players. It was that bad.

Still, the improvement isn't massive, so I voted little to none.
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
October 11 2011 06:59 GMT
#27
All I can say to foreign sc2 fans is, be happy the top koreans play bw, because if they didnt it would kill our scene or at least any chance of taking top spots

Though sc2 is a bit "chancy" to be PC about it
sickoota
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada918 Posts
October 11 2011 07:06 GMT
#28
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

Mana and Elfi both also beat Nada.
I could spend a while with that smile
Lann555
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands5173 Posts
October 11 2011 07:07 GMT
#29
Too few games for me to change my opinion. I wouldn't consider Inori/Lucky/StC to be exactly top-level Koreans.

Really, it was only Stephano anyway who prevented it from being another Korean dominated event and the guy is just a remarkable talent, so he might not be an accurate skill-gauge for the the entire foreign scene.

To really say the skill-gap has decreased , you need to have some players like MVP/Bomber/Nestea/DRG or even a July/MMA/Losira/Top/Polt going down in BO5 to foreigner
Fantasy Fan! Gogogo vultures
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
October 11 2011 07:12 GMT
#30
I don't think any foreigner has a chance of taking out the very very best koreans (Nestea / MVP) in a series, but I no longer think the skill gap between the top foreigners and the average code S players is that large...
:)
Rachnar
Profile Joined October 2010
France1526 Posts
October 11 2011 07:15 GMT
#31
On October 11 2011 15:04 R0YAL wrote:
The thing is that it's Korea vs the rest of the world and Korea still has the best of the best as well as a greater number of great players. Surely there will be a few individuals throughout the entirety of the planet that can compete with some of the better Koreans. But you have to remember that it's literally everyone vs the Koreans so a few players competing with the Koreans doesn't mean that foreigners as a whole can compete with Korea.


thing is, in korea there's almsot as many people that play starcraft as in the rest of the world ...

anyways, Korean's aren't human's, they're above us :p
"What if it's a triple DK ?" "Then we cry" "Prepare your handkerchief then ..."
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
October 11 2011 07:31 GMT
#32
Our absolute top against there mid to good tier players yes they take games sometimes even a set.
But it is not consistent and more often they do not win, also there absolute top is simply better.

So ... nothing changed, but it's such a good feeling to get a big tourney one's in a while.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
October 11 2011 07:41 GMT
#33
If one looks at the whole tournament and not just the results of Stephano and Idra it is still quite obvious that Koreans are still far ahead of foreigners. Outside of the top2-3 best performing foreigners there isn't anyone who shows the skill to consistency beat even code-a level Koreans.
MotherOfRunes
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2862 Posts
October 11 2011 07:43 GMT
#34
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

nahhhh goody beating NESTEA (altough i know nestea had to play with KR on NA lag while thorzain and mc played their tsl match at a LAN event )
"Your Razor sucks!" -Kuroky's Dad
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
October 11 2011 07:45 GMT
#35
not the most impressive koreans were sent to IEM in my opinion.
arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
October 11 2011 07:48 GMT
#36
No. It just further proves that at the top level, anyone can beat anyone because of the volatility of SC2 but overall Koreans dominate.
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 11 2011 07:52 GMT
#37
Moderately imo. Things just looked so damn grim for awhile. We almost had 4 foreigners in the top 8 at IPL, but Huk played terribly vs Inori (who did play well). Sure it wasn't a slew of Code S players at either tournament, but dammit it was good to see and gave me some more hope.

MLG Orlando will probably change this though as pretty much every Korean there with be Code S level... including the open bracket guys.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
October 11 2011 07:56 GMT
#38
I think there are about 10 foreigners who can beat the top 50 koreans. I doodle little power rankings in the margins of my notebook sometimes (one way you know you watch too much Sc2) and Stephano was #1 last week. So not surprised.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
October 11 2011 08:04 GMT
#39
Same, little to no change. I consider MMA as the only top Korean who participated in IPL 3 and he was eliminated by another Korean. And no disrespect to Lucky but the 3:0 was entirely a build order win.
jyisvip
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada209 Posts
October 11 2011 08:24 GMT
#40
On October 11 2011 15:35 tredogz wrote:
I have never thought there was that big of a gap between foreigners and Koreans.. I do NOT think Koreans play better than foreigners



I guess you weren't watching most of the tournaments...
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
HomeStory Cup
11:00
XXIX - Group Stage Day 2
TaKeTV3444
ComeBackTV 788
TaKeSeN 374
SteadfastSC245
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex134
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 245
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex 134
SHIN 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2137
EffOrt 1477
Soma 520
actioN 329
ZerO 260
hero 235
Sharp 125
Dewaltoss 98
JYJ 89
Pusan 53
[ Show more ]
Mong 43
Aegong 40
ToSsGirL 38
sorry 35
yabsab 28
NaDa 23
Terrorterran 22
Yoon 20
Rock 18
IntoTheRainbow 17
Bale 14
Dota 2
qojqva2168
Dendi1583
XaKoH 479
420jenkins346
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor234
Other Games
singsing3221
B2W.Neo1112
DeMusliM415
XcaliburYe234
Hui .214
KnowMe113
QueenE67
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1279
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream180
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 73
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 119
• EnkiAlexander 37
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3463
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 10m
HomeStory Cup
19h 10m
OSC
21h 10m
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W1
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
HSC XXIX
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.