• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:33
CEST 01:33
KST 08:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202610Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released Fantasy returning? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November]
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7587 users

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 13 14 15 Next All
yoshi245
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2974 Posts
October 11 2011 11:20 GMT
#61
On October 11 2011 18:07 seansye wrote:
The day a foreigner wins GSL is when I will vote significantly changed.


This exactly, until a foreigner does that. Foreigners will always be seen as second banana to Koreans, despite what accomplishment they have.
"Numbers speak about the past, not the present." -Thorzain
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
October 11 2011 11:25 GMT
#62
No change at all. Obviously koreans can drop some series as SC2 is a lot more volatile than BW because of the easier mechanics. Both these tournaments had a lot of mid and low tier koreans. IPL had most of the best koreans taken out by other koreans on the top half of the bracket. I guess the only thing that would change my view is if foreigners were more successful in GSL where the highest level of competition is at. Top foreigners taking out mid tier koreans(sometimes high tier) from time to time is nothing new and not consistent.
Sprouter
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1724 Posts
October 11 2011 11:26 GMT
#63
The skill gap isn't as huge as it was in BW but it's only handful of foreigners that can compete with Koreans.
grappasc
Profile Joined September 2011
Belgium86 Posts
October 11 2011 11:29 GMT
#64
poll way too ambiguous
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
October 11 2011 11:38 GMT
#65
It hasn't changed all too much, other than that I know now what I have only kinda expected - Stephano is really as good as I thought.

I also begin to feel like, although there are some very good Protoss around, we could really need some more Top-Toss players. I don't wanna talk imbalance, but with Korean Terrans and pretty many Zerg-Pro's already proofing that they are world-class, many Toss-players are very good, but didn't quite break that last barrier to become god-like, kinda like MC before everyone figured out his timings an he began slumping a bit (compared to winning everything before of course). ^^'
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 12:48:05
October 11 2011 12:36 GMT
#66
The best Koreans don't even play SC2 yet.
UnholyRai
Profile Joined September 2010
720 Posts
October 11 2011 13:01 GMT
#67
to be honest stephanos play is so unique it just shows that foreigners have the talent to come up with brilliant strategies that can beat even the best koreans.

However I think that once koreans study stephanos style, it will be the same old korean dominance again.

i answered "moderately changed", because I was not expecting foreigners to win these tournys, specifically IPL3.

Gogo Grubby.
Headnoob
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia2108 Posts
October 11 2011 13:10 GMT
#68
The best foreigners fell to Medium level koreans, the best koreans got sniped by themselves really.

Happy as fuck that idra and stephano pulled out wins, but if we threw in an MVP for every ret/idra/huk (just examples) it'd just be embarrassing.

Personally i think moonglade will one day be the SC2 god, for australia
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
October 11 2011 13:36 GMT
#69
I don't think it makes too much of a difference, but I voted moderately changed anyway. Mentally, foreigners will feel motivated and improvement will come about. It is not unfair to say Idra's great run at IEM may have played a part in good foreign Zerg performance.
minimalistic
Profile Joined August 2010
Hungary157 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 13:54:22
October 11 2011 13:53 GMT
#70
Show me a foreigner who is a threat for Nestea or MVP in the longrun.
"A baby Gracken dies every time you use Ghost + Mech" -unknown chat user
VTJRaen
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom238 Posts
October 11 2011 13:56 GMT
#71
It's changed my opinion on IdrA's metagame. So vastly improved recently, I think he has a shot of making Code S again if/when he goes back to Korea.
Multiplay eSports Co-Ordinator
hysterial
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2044 Posts
October 11 2011 13:58 GMT
#72
I think Idra and Stephano are easily code S material, but in terms of the best of Korea, hey can't compare yet at least.
SoniC_eu
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark1008 Posts
October 11 2011 13:58 GMT
#73
I'm pretty sure if an American took the IPL 3, the forums would be going nuts. I for one, am extremely pleased that a european took the IPL in convincing and entertaining fashion (yes u should watch kiwi vs. stephano *drool*). I dont believe there is some crazy big change now in skill lvls, but that europeans are slowly catching up to the koreans and this shows. But make no mistake, the koreans are still the strongest. As for NA, well maybe someday they too can win big tournies, but it seems they have a long ways to go at the moment. :D WELL DONE STEPHANO! :D
In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. http://da.twitch.tv/sonic_eu
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 11 2011 14:02 GMT
#74
On October 11 2011 14:43 Waxangel wrote:
Look at me, replying to my own poll o/

doctors in white coats this way

\o

Feel the same way;; Give me 2 foreigners in the Ro8 and I'll hush but I feel like Stephano//Idras accomplishments are huge- just not as huge as home turf bringing the noise to Mok Dong
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
October 11 2011 14:08 GMT
#75
I think there's some beauty to this. Really good Koreans still win in Korea and abroad - mid tier Koreans get a chance to make a living outside of Korea and foreigners have some remote hope of winning. I liked IPL, minus the technical difficulties and some of the casters.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3720 Posts
October 11 2011 14:09 GMT
#76
this next mlg will tell if ipl was a fluke or not imo.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
October 11 2011 14:10 GMT
#77
Idk about you guys but it has changed my mind significantly. Watching players like KiwiKaki attempt that 6 zealot rush off an ffe was completely unexpected. If we can continue to innovate, the Koreans won't be far off imho.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
October 11 2011 14:16 GMT
#78
In my opinion the best foreign players are better then mid-tier koreans.
But those mid tier koreans have a few very strong builds prepared where they can kill better players with if they aren't prepared well enough.
So yeh.. top foreigners are better players, but not as well prepared which is why they have a lot of unneeded losses vs mid tier koreans
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
October 11 2011 14:19 GMT
#79
I think the top foreigners can still compete with the almost-top-level koreans, like nada, puma in slightly imperfect shape, etc... And Stephano has found a style that the koreans seem to have no answer to yet in the ZvT matchup.
Choboo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden2088 Posts
October 11 2011 14:19 GMT
#80
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

You do know that Elfi, Kiwikaki and Mana has also beat Nada right?
SaSe fan club manager
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
QMC Community Tournament 1
CranKy Ducklings48
Liquipedia
OSC
07:15
Masters Cup #151 Group C
davetesta25
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 138
ViBE135
ProTech129
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13971
Artosis 540
PianO 28
Sacsri 9
Dota 2
canceldota152
NeuroSwarm148
League of Legends
Doublelift4215
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1559
minikerr13
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe107
Other Games
summit1g6415
shahzam540
Day[9].tv487
C9.Mang0367
Maynarde77
Trikslyr48
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 46
• RyuSc2 27
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP26
• Response 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie979
• Shiphtur559
• Day9tv487
Upcoming Events
OSC
23h 27m
Big Brain Bouts
1d 10h
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
AI Arena Tournament
1d 17h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.