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Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…

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vVvPastry
Profile Joined September 2011
United States244 Posts
October 12 2011 00:40 GMT
#141
Ya this really didn't change much for me...

The Koreans at IEM were mid tier. The Ipl tournament was weird and if this went just a tad bit differently such as boxer not stepping on a baneling bomb and knocking out lucky I think Ryung might have won considering he 3-1ed stephano. But yea the Koreans still dominated the top of the bracket just with a foreign winner not really the biggest of deals.
vvv-gaming.com Favorite for Each Race Boxer/ Alicia/ Losira Supporting MMA/Teaja/sC/Marineking/Idra/White Ra/Ryung/BitByBit/MC/Team SlayerS
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
October 12 2011 00:55 GMT
#142
Watching those games, not a single one of those Koreans looked unbeatable or even close to it. Everyone looked extremely beatable by any of the top foreigners. That said, I think the best-of-the-best Koreans are still at the top, but not by as much as I once did.

What is important to keep in perspective is that, "the best Korean," is a very selective group. I think most people's lists would only run like 8 names deep, maybe a little more. And if you're within reach of those players and able to takes games off of them, even if not series, that is certainly saying something.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Dakota69
Profile Joined March 2011
United States51 Posts
October 12 2011 01:05 GMT
#143
On October 11 2011 14:54 theBALLS wrote:
Foreigners have the soul, koreans have the regiment.

You may be special, but you're not going to be consistently dominant over someone who trains 10x as hard as you.

Until foreigners are able to adhere to a regime akin to that of the koreans, the skill game will always be there.

This guy said it, that's why foreigners who go and train in Korea are the ones that are able to keep up. It's not like Koreans are genetically better....well, not THAT much genetically better ^^
"My nipples are hard, I'm ready..I know your nipples are hard"--EGiNcontrol
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
October 12 2011 01:37 GMT
#144
Same opinion as antoine and wax. Good foreigners can beat mid tier koreans.

Stephanos results were surprising but not trend changing.
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
October 12 2011 01:58 GMT
#145
Yep, no one at IEM was exactly what I would call a threat to players like MVP / Nestea
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
October 12 2011 02:25 GMT
#146
Same.

You have foreigner every now and then that can do well, but to no real consistently. Koreans still dominate the upper tiers of foreign tournaments. Only other foreigners were Idra and Ret in the top 8 at IPL3.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-12 02:42:01
October 12 2011 02:41 GMT
#147
top 3/4 finalist were korean for ipl 3 ... so nothing changes, if those 3 are say nestea, mvp and drg sure but they were not.
MadNeSs
Profile Joined March 2007
Denmark1507 Posts
October 12 2011 02:45 GMT
#148
Well stephano shoved something else. He might be the best zerg on the world. And I am certain he would rape Nestea, in a ZvZ any day of the week. And he probably has a good chance against MVP (Who I consider the best korean in the world) to beat him. But hopefully we will see that some day.
barkles
Profile Joined May 2010
United States285 Posts
October 12 2011 02:54 GMT
#149
(1) When the best foreigners beat the BEST koreans (MVP and Nestea most notably), then I'll be impressed.

(2) There are always statistical outliers in every large enough sample size (meaning that if koreans play foreigners enough, the foreigners are bound to win sometimes). Since the time of Moon's famous "Koreans own white dudes" saying, there have been precious few victories for non-Korean trained (read: not HuK or Jinro, and maybe even IdrA) foreigners in events which mid- to top-level Koreans have participated.
jyisvip
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada209 Posts
October 12 2011 03:00 GMT
#150
On October 12 2011 11:45 MadNeSs wrote:
Well stephano shoved something else. He might be the best zerg on the world. And I am certain he would rape Nestea, in a ZvZ any day of the week. And he probably has a good chance against MVP (Who I consider the best korean in the world) to beat him. But hopefully we will see that some day.


Really? NesTea? The guy with 92% win rate in zvz?
magnaflow
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1521 Posts
October 12 2011 03:14 GMT
#151
Maybe it's just me but I get the feeling foreigners are putting more heart into the most recent tournaments. Just seems like they are actually trying harder and not brushing it off as a loss automatically
legendre20
Profile Joined November 2010
United States316 Posts
October 12 2011 03:55 GMT
#152
Little to no change.. Koreans are still a league above foreigners besides a VERY select few.
"Sen, lings are OP" - HelloKittySS /// <3 http://www.twitch.tv/legendre20 <3
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
October 12 2011 03:55 GMT
#153
If Nestea of MVP was in, then it would change my opinion. They were not however, so my opinion remains unchanged.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Greggle
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1131 Posts
October 12 2011 04:10 GMT
#154
Give a top Korean a few days to a week of prep and he will demolish any foreigner including Stephano.
Life is too short to take it seriously.
Protocon
Profile Joined February 2010
United States255 Posts
October 12 2011 04:12 GMT
#155
Little to no change.

Think about it this way; if you place foreigners through the gsl system, qualifiers and all, not very many would make it far.
asdf
poor newb
Profile Joined April 2004
United States1879 Posts
October 12 2011 04:16 GMT
#156
imo top foreigners are about mid korean level
How do you mine minerals?
Keone
Profile Joined April 2011
United States812 Posts
October 12 2011 04:54 GMT
#157
though stephano did amazingly well, it was seriously just him, and the only koreans he really competed against was TheSTC and Lucky. He might be considered Lucky that the tougher Koreans in the other half (MMA Ryung Puma Hero etc) killed one another and resulted in... well... Lucky.

I'm definitely not taking anything away from Stephano but at the same time, one foreigner in one tournament in a Lucky draw is not going to change much for me.
BW Forever. Flash is the Ultimate Bonjwa.
BreakfastTea
Profile Joined May 2011
United States184 Posts
October 12 2011 05:13 GMT
#158
On October 12 2011 11:45 MadNeSs wrote:
Well stephano shoved something else. He might be the best zerg on the world. And I am certain he would rape Nestea, in a ZvZ any day of the week. And he probably has a good chance against MVP (Who I consider the best korean in the world) to beat him. But hopefully we will see that some day.


So, stephano won one tournament where he played mid-tier Korean pros and we're all supposed to suddenly crown him the best zerg on earth? Ease off the gas, friend, you've been sipping too much kool-aid.
Don't take me seriously, I'm no Pro. Neither are you.
HappyChris
Profile Joined October 2011
1534 Posts
October 12 2011 05:17 GMT
#159
Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea has to offer im quite sure about that.

We do actually see it all the time recently.

MaNa beating puma both online and offline. Idra beating puma and revival. Dimaga completly destroying JYP that got one of korea´s best PvZ atm. Socke beating killer quite easy in a pvp at IEM. Tod beating slayersAlicia 2 times at an MLG PvP. Mirror matches comes down to micro and mechanics so when some of best protoss can beat some of the best korean protoss in a mirror match it says alot. Ret beating Alive etc the list goes on and on

Thorzain in Dreamhack valancia and GSTL. And ofc Stephano´s complet domination in all matchup in IPL vs all those koreans qualifier and the live final. It wasnt even close

You have to be really single minded if you cant see a trend here.

Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea have to offer im so sure. And we got more to come. Alot of talant is finally comming out from the foreigners scene atm. Just wait until Nerchio and MaNa go into beast mode
BreakfastTea
Profile Joined May 2011
United States184 Posts
October 12 2011 05:24 GMT
#160
On October 12 2011 14:17 HappyChris wrote:
Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea has to offer im quite sure about that.

We do actually see it all the time recently.

MaNa beating puma both online and offline. Idra beating puma and revival. Dimaga completly destroying JYP that got one of korea´s best PvZ atm. Socke beating killer quite easy in a pvp at IEM. Tod beating slayersAlicia 2 times at an MLG PvP. Mirror matches comes down to micro and mechanics so when some of best protoss can beat some of the best korean protoss in a mirror match it says alot. Ret beating Alive etc the list goes on and on

Thorzain in Dreamhack valancia and GSTL. And ofc Stephano´s complet domination in all matchup in IPL vs all those koreans qualifier and the live final. It wasnt even close

You have to be really single minded if you cant see a trend here.

Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea have to offer im so sure. And we got more to come. Alot of talant is finally comming out from the foreigners scene atm. Just wait until Nerchio and MaNa go into beast mode


Except I would add that foreigner's are continually beating the same Koreans or Koreans are who are only mid-tier. And this is to be expected, due to familiarity in the first case and simple statistic probability due to increased interaction in the second. Also, when big names have lost, it's a game, or a single series. We aren't seeing anything close to consistent performance. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be optimistic, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Don't take me seriously, I'm no Pro. Neither are you.
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