EPTHave the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your op…
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
puma has meh tvz and i'm not surprised with greg beating him get like ganzi/taeja/nestea to go north america. | ||
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Zeroxk
Norway1244 Posts
On October 12 2011 14:17 HappyChris wrote: Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea has to offer im quite sure about that. We do actually see it all the time recently. MaNa beating puma both online and offline. Idra beating puma and revival. Dimaga completly destroying JYP that got one of korea´s best PvZ atm. Socke beating killer quite easy in a pvp at IEM. Tod beating slayersAlicia 2 times at an MLG PvP. Mirror matches comes down to micro and mechanics so when some of best protoss can beat some of the best korean protoss in a mirror match it says alot. Ret beating Alive etc the list goes on and on Thorzain in Dreamhack valancia and GSTL. And ofc Stephano´s complet domination in all matchup in IPL vs all those koreans qualifier and the live final. It wasnt even close You have to be really single minded if you cant see a trend here. Our best foreigners can beat and compete with the best korea have to offer im so sure. And we got more to come. Alot of talant is finally comming out from the foreigners scene atm. Just wait until Nerchio and MaNa go into beast mode Out of those players the only Code S player you named was Alive and Killer(who has suspect PvP). Please don't get ahead of yourself. If Stephano and Lucky had swapped places in the bracket and Stephano still gotten to the finals I would've been impressed, but he had the luck of the draw to dodge the best players there. Do you really think the best foreigners can beat mvp, nestea, bomber etc? MVP and Bomber already went to MLG and roflstomped everyone | ||
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Dante_A_
United States161 Posts
Koreans who lost to Foreigners + Show Spoiler + Artist Alive Violet (Stephano) Inori (S) TheSTC (S) Lucky (S) Foreigners knocked out by Koreans + Show Spoiler + Haypro Socke Sheth Minigun CatZ Machine Strelok White-Ra Huk Ret Idra Koreans knocked out by Koreans + Show Spoiler + Boxer (Lucky) Hero MC Ryung (L) Sleep Select Puma MMA (L) Stephano amounted to more than half of the Foreigner wins against Koreans. He had to play 4/5 Koreans, an impressive championship run. Lucky had a great run too, who's wins against Boxer/Ret/Ryung/MMA are notable. It remains that arguably the top 5 pre-tournament favorites were all knocked out by another Korean (MMA, Hero, MC, Puma, Ryung). I guess I'm impressed with Idra and Stephano, but not necessary by the foreigner group in general. I think the top 5-6 Foreigners could compete in Code S and show good games. I think it drops off after that, the next 15 best could probably be competitive in Code A/Qualifiers, although the qualifiyers for Code A are so brutal that I'm not sure they would make it through if not given an automatic Code A spot. So many good players don't make it through those, and those are supposed to be the Koreans outside of the top 64. I think it would be reasonable to say that the 10th best Foreigner is about as good as the 100-150th best Korean, so it drops off fairly quickly outside of the top few. | ||
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Larryx
Poland148 Posts
GSL is crap due to its format (sadly MLG too) and Artosis is biggest bullshit spreading guy on the planet. | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
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Wroshe
Netherlands1051 Posts
While that was a very much needed win for IdrA you can't look past these two things. * He was struggling in group stages and only made it out because Elfi decided to play his last group match seriously. * IEM's Korean invites besides PuMa weren't that strong. JYP is a new face who made it to RO8 in Code A and PuMa/RevivaL/Jinro aren't even in code A. Also it was curious to me that Jinro was invited as a Korean but that is another matter. IPL however did change my opinion although only slightly. For what's stated below I'll only take the final bracket in consideration and will ignore the pool play; because that didn't really matter. While it gave us the first foreigner victory in a LAN tournament with serious Korean representation after HuK's win at DreamHack not all that much has changed. * Only Ret and Stephano managed to beat Korean's that are on Korean teams; IdrA beat a Korean on a foreign team. (What's Artist's situation? Living in Korea practicing alone?) * Any comments about Stephano only beating code B players should be dismissed as garbage: the reason he only beat Code B players is because he didn't have to play any Code A/S players. Reason he didn't have to play them is because they weren't good enough to win their half of the bracket which is their fault, not Stephano's. At the end of the day however it still proved the idea that top foreigners can beat koreans. The only new thing is that we finally found one that can beat enough of them to win a tournament. | ||
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:34 nakedsurfer wrote: You guys are so negative and in my eyes kind of retarded. If any korean wins an event it's "OMG they're so good!!!"(doens't matter which korean wins it too...) but when a foreigner wins it, it's "oh that isn't The best korean player and therefor it doesn't count." Really?... If anything the question most of you are answering is how much better are the top players. not how well do korean and foreginer players do against eachother because obviously they can compete against one another with good games. Besides Dimaga has beaten ImNestea and Huk has beaten MC. Surely that means that the "Gosu Koreans" can be touched. Oh right i forget that was just a 1 best of 3 and he got lucky or Nestea wasn't trying or since it was mirror matchup which is 100% luck(Herp Durp!) I couldnt agree more. We all agree that Koreans are the best. But it would be folly to downplay the recent events. And to those saying stephano had a easy run to the top, I dont think he did (someone insinuated he had a "easy" run to the top). I am not downplaying Idra winning IEM either, I was impressed when he beat Puma 3-0, that was a nice moment  But stephano beat in the groupplay, qualifying and championship (if we only count koreans) Revival, Puzzle, MMA, Boxer, Inori, theSTC, and Lucky. I am quite sure that counts for something (regardless of how you categorize them), and regardless of you negative nancys! Lucky spanking the slayers terran boys was also extremely noteworthy and might mark a change in this overall matchup.Digression: something someone else pointed out. Koreans are the foreigners (since we dont live in korea). It's a bit odd if we call ourselves foreigners isnt it? Is it a carryover from BW or something? For a sc2 player its a bit odd hehe. | ||
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
Population of Rest of the World: ~6.5 billion. Enough said. Korea and rest of the world clashes every single time and still Korea is better. In BW, it was just one sided. Last bits of WC3 was the same too. And now SC2. Same story, different video game. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
On October 12 2011 17:48 Djagulingu wrote: Population of Korea: 40 million. Population of Rest of the World: ~6.5 billion. Enough said. Korea and rest of the world clashes every single time and still Korea is better. In BW, it was just one sided. Last bits of WC3 was the same too. And now SC2. Same story, different video game. Don't think the Koreans really dominated the scene, they were good. But far from unbeatable. In the last bits of wc3 it was more that most top europeans switched to sc2..... | ||
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KAPdlight
United Kingdom61 Posts
inori is a coach and hasnt theSTC or Lucky recently come out of the army? its a testament to how good the korean players overall can be, and the fact nobody knows how to deal with stephano's crackling style at the moment | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On October 12 2011 18:27 KAPdlight wrote: and hasnt theSTC or Lucky recently come out of the army? STC, about 2-3 months ago if i'm correct. but I think he trains fulltime at the ogs house right now | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
ThorZain beating MC (for TL cup) when they were both in Europe. Stephano winning a tournament that had MMA, Puma, Ryung, Lucky and other good tier Koreans in it. Those 3 are the big wins foreigners had. EIM Guangzhou is 4th. Homestory cup was a PvP and only MC was there... | ||
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bana
Germany22 Posts
On October 11 2011 16:15 Rachnar wrote: thing is, in korea there's almsot as many people that play starcraft as in the rest of the world ... Definitely not. They are a lot of more players in the Rest of the world playing SC2 as in Korea. (South)Korea hasn't even a big population. And you have to know, that SC2 is still a minor game in Korea. Broodwar is still bigger there, so comparing the "Foreign SC2" Scene with "Korean SC2 Scene" is nearly like comparing the "Korean BW Scene" to the "Foreign BW Scene". | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Wroshe
Netherlands1051 Posts
On October 12 2011 19:22 Koshi wrote: Jinro beating Koreans in his first 2 GSLs ThorZain beating MC (for TL cup) when they were both in Europe. Stephano winning a tournament that had MMA, Puma, Ryung, Lucky and other good tier Koreans in it. Those 3 are the big wins foreigners had. EIM Guangzhou is 4th. Homestory cup was a PvP and only MC was there... Honestly I feel that HuK's Dreamhack victory is as big as those three. Winning a tournament with MC, Moon, July and Bomber is very good. Although I will agree that HuK also had some luck with the brackets there (He with July on one end, Moon MC and Bomber on the other one) | ||
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Mabilis
United States162 Posts
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