EPT[Opinion/IPL4] Much Ado About Nothing - Page 8
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:39 Dakure wrote: So if I understand this correctly, you're extending "best Koreans" to cover koreans in Code S, Code A, and some (albeit top-level) Code B? So sure, maybe 1/5 of the top Korean scene showed up, but of that 1/5, around 25% were Code S players--the very VERY best of the Korean scene. 1/5 of the top koreans but ~66% of the absolutely best Koreans (as defined by GSL-rankings). Yes. Sorry, guess I should have been clearer. My major point was that if a player finishing outside the top 16 has to be considered a "success" for foreigners, we're in pretty dire shape. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:39 Dakure wrote: So if I understand this correctly, you're extending "best Koreans" to cover koreans in Code S, Code A, and some (albeit top-level) Code B? So sure, maybe 1/5 of the top Korean scene showed up, but of that 1/5, around 25% were Code S players--the very VERY best of the Korean scene. 1/5 of the top koreans but ~66% of the absolutely best Koreans (as defined by GSL-rankings). Code S and Code A do not represent who is the "absolute best" of the Korean scene. There are plenty of Code B players who are good enough to replicate the same performances at IPL4. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
Except it was Japanese, not Korean... minor detail. | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:57 ragz_gt wrote: Except it was Japanese, not Korean... minor detail. Also minor detail they were playing street fighter not sc2. Doesn't matter, had laughs. lol | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:57 CosmicSpiral wrote: Code S and Code A do not represent who is the "absolute best" of the Korean scene. There are plenty of Code B players who are good enough to replicate the same performances at IPL4. While there certainly people who hangs on in Code S / A, the overall talent gap between Code S / Code A is significant, and the gap between Code A / Code B is huge. While there are Code B player that could do pretty well, if you replace all Code S/A player in IPL4 with Code B players, I'd be very surprised if they did half as well. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:39 Dakure wrote: So if I understand this correctly, you're extending "best Koreans" to cover koreans in Code S, Code A, and some (albeit top-level) Code B? So sure, maybe 1/5 of the top Korean scene showed up, but of that 1/5, around 25% were Code S players--the very VERY best of the Korean scene. 1/5 of the top koreans but ~66% of the absolutely best Koreans (as defined by GSL-rankings). The line up was completely stacked with Korean players, to the where some great players, like Liquid Hero, couldn't even make it out of the open bracket. I enjoyed the event, but beyond Stephano and Huk, the foreigners showing was that mind blowing. Also, beyond Squirtle, none of the players from open bracket made it out of the group stage. The whole thing was brutal, no matter who was playing. The whole event was fine, but the article is correct that IPL did not pull the best players from all regions. | ||
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nufcrulz
Singapore934 Posts
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:53 Flonomenalz wrote: I think the foreign scene needs to actually be LESS widespread. For there to be a team house environment in the foreign scene, there needs to NOT be 1000 different random teams that never really accomplish anything, and will sooner or later die out. For example, instead of getting them all split up, imagine Idra, Huk, Select, Illusion, Sheth, and other NA powerhouses all on the same team? Or Kas, Thorzain, Stephano, Feast, etc, all on the same EU powerhouse team? THAT'S when I think we would see foreign improvement, and maybe it'll involve some organizations joining their teams together, but as it stands, there's not enough talent within the teams for them to get good enough practice outside of Korea, which is a big, big problem. The problem is, you do that and the foreign team scene dies. Without teams out there to bring up new talent, the talent pool stagnates and dies off eventually. We already have enough level of difficulty for players to make a name for themselves, why bring in the added difficulty of making it harder to find a team? A lot of these top players DO practice with eachother even though they're not on the same team. You could make the same argument "Oh man, imagine Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, and Fantasy all on the same KR powerhouse team!" but if you condense all the talent that much it largely removes the team aspect of competition (not to mention it's not really financially viable given what it would cost to acquire all of those players) | ||
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LunaSea
Luxembourg369 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:53 Flonomenalz wrote: I think the foreign scene needs to actually be LESS widespread. For there to be a team house environment in the foreign scene, there needs to NOT be 1000 different random teams that never really accomplish anything, and will sooner or later die out. For example, instead of getting them all split up, imagine Idra, Huk, Select, Illusion, Sheth, and other NA powerhouses all on the same team? Or Kas, Thorzain, Stephano, Feast, etc, all on the same EU powerhouse team? THAT'S when I think we would see foreign improvement, and maybe it'll involve some organizations joining their teams together, but as it stands, there's not enough talent within the teams for them to get good enough practice outside of Korea, which is a big, big problem. Yeah, I really like the idea of some sort of permanent "HomeStory Cup" like team house environment with top foreigners of every team. It kinda balances out the "Korean pride" factor Naniwa was talking about. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On April 21 2012 02:03 nufcrulz wrote: i think a pretty balanced tournament that would attract a lot of viewers, unlike IPL4, would have something like a 30-70% ratio of koreans to foreigners. much like what MLG had last year. Tournament organizers need to realize they lose a substantial chunk of their viewership once the last foreigner and korean personality(i.e MKP/MC/MMA/MVP) gets kicked out of the tournament. I'm not saying that they need to get rid of open qualifiers completely, but they need to get a balanced mix of korean invitees plus random koreans like squirtle etc. and not flood the open bracket with 20+ of them. I think a good way to do this would be to hold regional qualifiers for open bracket spots. Then again i guess that would defeat the purpose of it being "open"... It's a good idea that based on foreigner put on a respectable performance. Really, if number of Koreans in IPL4 open bracket was reduced to half, or a quarter, how many more foreigner would made it into championship bracket? One maybe, two if lucky? At the end of the day, it's the quality of the play that matters, not how many there are. | ||
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testthewest
Germany274 Posts
On April 20 2012 22:21 TheSubtleArt wrote: Funny how Scarlett beats 2 players and gets a 130+ page fanclub, while people like Illusion or Ostojiy (who beat Golden and Puma in Bo3s at MLG) go largely unnoticed. Well, the upset was bigger. Illusion is a korean american, that's like Select. Sure, he did well, but he isn't the first male doing well in SC2. Scarlett on the other hand is real special. She won a qualifier to get to IPL4 (so no afirmative action). She is the first female doing that, the first female to win a round at a big tournament, the first female to beat an korean progamer and to make it even more against the odds, she isn't even korean herself. That's why she gets the hype. | ||
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CPTBadAss
United States594 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:36 bikefrog wrote: No, really. This is just sugarcoating the sad truth. Sticking with the SC2-scene until Diablo 3 and GW2 get's released, then I'm out. I'm not exactly sure why, but the South Korean dominance really kills my interest in SC2 as an e-sport. NaNiwa fighting. You like e-sports, not Starcraft. GL on your next journeys. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 21 2012 02:00 ragz_gt wrote: While there certainly people who hangs on in Code S / A, the overall talent gap between Code S / Code A is significant, and the gap between Code A / Code B is huge. While there are Code B player that could do pretty well, if you replace all Code S/A player in IPL4 with Code B players, I'd be very surprised if they did half as well. It only appears significant in the GSL, which is a circular argument when it comes to skill. There is a large gap between Code S and Code B just based on overall experience and presence and a smaller gap between Code S and Code A based on luck of the draw and composure. The gap between Code A and Code B is nonexistent because Code B is just the players who did not pass the Code A qualifiers. And there are a lot of Code B players who outclass current Code A players. | ||
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zEnVy
United States446 Posts
Seriously, if you watched IPL Team Arena Challenge you would have known this. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On April 21 2012 02:19 CosmicSpiral wrote: It only appears significant in the GSL, which is a circular argument when it comes to skill. There is a large gap between Code S and Code B just based on overall experience and presence and a smaller gap between Code S and Code based on luck of the draw and composure. The gap between Code A and Code B is nonexistent because Code B is just the players who did not pass the Code A qualifiers. And there are a lot of Code B players who outclass current Code A players. That is true for lower Code A / top Code B. However, the disparity within Code A itself is huge, and within Code B is much larger. An average Code B player is not a proper match for average Code A player and stands little chance against top tier Code S player, this is pretty obvious if watch a lot of KR ladder stream. | ||
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
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