EPT[Opinion/IPL4] Much Ado About Nothing - Page 6
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
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An2quamaraN
Poland379 Posts
On April 20 2012 20:19 Micket wrote: Personally, I don't think that a few Bo3 upsets count towards foreigners doing passibly well. If we have sunk down to that level, then it is bad prospects indeed. That's actually a good point... | ||
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colingrad
United States210 Posts
On April 20 2012 21:39 LunaSea wrote: Am I on the MLG Business / PR section ? Ok, IPL did some mistakes with the stream and so but it certainly doesn't deserve this : I know that MLG begins in a few hours but still ... Btw, still no DreamHack thread ! More bias plz ! the reason there is no dreamhack live report thread yet is it doesnt start until tomorrow and the threads arent made by TL staff they're made by people who are dedicated enough to keep them updated | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
Because people aren't really enthusiastic about cheering on their own country in the olympics or anything, right? Local doesn't have to mean down the street from you, and you don't need to personally meet the competitors to still be excited about them. Most people will have seen their favourite sports teams maybe once a year, and even then it will be in a large city that is on average an hour or two away from them. They'll almost certainly never meet any of the players. Its really not so different. This isn't really the same. The olympics are an event based around national pride and is a special event once every 2/4 years. This would be similar to the GSL world championship that they had, or even the blizzard events. A big open tournament that is on a global scale doesn't really fit that mold. And its not even a matter of most people cheering on from their own country, its more like everyone but people from korea vs people from korea. This goes both ways....people that say "I ONLY want to see koreans" are just as harmful as people that get ridiculous over "foreigner scene". There are some truly good players out there from all over the world AT TIMES play code S level. but this whole idea of keeping track of series and results of tournaments based on how many sets a white guy took off a korean is just dumb. Sc2 is a Global sport. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
On April 20 2012 21:39 LunaSea wrote: Am I on the MLG Business / PR section ? Ok, IPL did some mistakes with the stream and so but it certainly doesn't deserve this : I know that MLG begins in a few hours but still ... Btw, still no DreamHack thread ! More bias plz ! Yeah I thought they were a little harsh on IPL. It was a fantastic tournament. Also "Silly Tournament Structure?" Compared to EVERY MLG last year the tournament structure was just fine. With that out of the way, I'm looking forward to MLG. | ||
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Warpish
834 Posts
Have you noticed that most top foreign teams now have Koreans in their rosters? Whether you want to believe it or not, Koreans taking all prize moneys from the foreginer tournaments hurts the foreign scene because programers can't pay their bills with good will. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 20 2012 19:45 mrtomjones wrote: Would be interesting to see if Illusion has a bad ass future ahead of him.. If Illusion isn't widely regarded as... top 5 foreigner within a year, I would be pretty surprised. | ||
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Sphen5117
United States413 Posts
Becuase first and foremost I love Starcraft 2. I love playing it and I love watching it. There are things that go into making SC2 exceptional when watching. Sometimes it's storylines, but more often than not, and always of higher priority, is the skill displayed within the actual game. For this reason it's hard to sometimes see the intense disparity between fans liking foreigners and fans liking koreans. I understand that foreign fans have more of a connection to players from their countries, or that they have things in common with, but do they not also love the game of Starcraft 2 first and foremost? I was super excited during the finals, because to me it represented Alive, someone who I felt was incredibly underrated given his ridiculously good performance in GSL 2012 Season 1 (seriously, don't just look at the results, watch the games), and Squirtle, who also represented someone who has had hype before and I've known to have the potential to be ballin'. I knew that no matter who won, an underrated, super-talented player would get a trophy they deserved (holy shit, did you see the path Squirtle had to take?) So I guess, you can look at numbers of representation at these events and lament the foreigners, listing off players like Naniwa, etc who weren't in attendance, but who are clearly top foreigners, but can that also not be said about the Koreans? I could start naming some Code S monsters who weren't there as well. The point being, it will always seem that Koreans have better representation even when participation numbers are equal, because odds are drastically in favor of any given korean pro being better than any given foreigner pro. I can see the ill feelings this might put in the gut of some foreigners, but I feel it skews our perspective to the point of trying to make excuses for foreigner showings in these tournaments. What should we do? Well, I recall an interview with HuK from Dreamhack where he stated approximately (not word for word) that foreigners were lazier and less disciplined than Koreans, and that this lesser degree of dedication is at the heart of the skill gap with Koreans. I can understand how having foreigner champions on occasion might be better for tournaments as they are more popular and bring in more fans, but if anything I'm ashamed that such a thing is even a fact. As fans, we need to be more in love with the game and amazing play. If we as fans show that we love this entertainment as a display of skill (As well as a stage for our most beloved personalities), then these tournaments will benefit simply from having the best players win, rather than having the most popular win. Besides, wouldn't such a shift in where the popularity and demand lie, if anything, be even more motivation to foreigner pros? I say all these things with full knowledge that I'm not involved in the pro scene, and if anyone who is rebukes me, so be it, they will be more knowledgable, but it saddens me as a fan of the sport to see tournaments like this with amazing play go off and have incredible storylines not always involving foreigners (Nestea fighting anyone?) get negative treatment just because our beloved foreigners didn't claim the crown. I lament everytime my favorite foreigner pros don't do well, but I still know how to praise the game and performance of other players and love exciting, high tier play. TL;DR: Can't we all just get along? | ||
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KungFuGhost
19 Posts
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laguu
Finland278 Posts
On April 20 2012 21:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: This is such a brilliant article. I hope IPL and other tournaments read it and learn from it, because there is so much valuable info in here. We're going to try and do more opinion articles in the future. It might be there will be some disagreement over the content occasionally, but regardless we consider it a positive development to put articles like this out there. This sounds great. I like these opinion pieces even if I didn't agree with them. | ||
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FesteringJester
United States3 Posts
Edit: Also, this is my first post on TL (squeeeee) | ||
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Arbee
United States58 Posts
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
@FesteringJester win over Mvp was a walkover win as Mvp didn't go. | ||
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Turboteckel
Netherlands37 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:54 FesteringJester wrote: I didn't read all comments before posting, so forgive me if this has been said, but wasn't Machine's run through the loser's bracket pretty solid? Took out Mvp, NonY, and DIMAGA, before falling to Ryung. Seems fairly impressive to me. Edit: Also, this is my first post on TL (squeeeee) Mvp didn't attend the tournament so any wins over him in the bracket were BYE's. So if you think beating Nony and Dimaga was a good run then yes, but taking Mvp out of there It's not that impressive. | ||
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Avalain
Canada308 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:15 Irre wrote: This isn't really the same. The olympics are an event based around national pride and is a special event once every 2/4 years. This would be similar to the GSL world championship that they had, or even the blizzard events. A big open tournament that is on a global scale doesn't really fit that mold. And its not even a matter of most people cheering on from their own country, its more like everyone but people from korea vs people from korea. This goes both ways....people that say "I ONLY want to see koreans" are just as harmful as people that get ridiculous over "foreigner scene". There are some truly good players out there from all over the world AT TIMES play code S level. but this whole idea of keeping track of series and results of tournaments based on how many sets a white guy took off a korean is just dumb. Sc2 is a Global sport. Well, it is perhaps more similar to a sport like figure skating where the individual participants are representing their country. There are a bunch of tournaments every year around the world and people generally cheer for the people who represent their country. At the same time, I'm sure there are many who cheer for particularly strong competitors and really are there to see good figure skating. This is basically where starcraft needs to get to. It's not healthy for the scene to be dominated so much by one country. An example of this is curling in Canada. It's very important for other countries to do well for the sport to be considered legitimate. Yes, SC2 is a global sport. The worry for many is keeping it this way. Foreigners need to be competitive simply because their success fuels interest from fans. Technically there aren't any people who want to only see Koreans. There are two kinds of fans: those that just want to see the best of the best play really good games, and those that want to see their local heroes succeed (and by local, I can mean someone from their country, continent, or even just foreigners in general). If, say, Sweden started their own GSLesque tournament where Swedish players dominated everyone including top Code S Koreans, then the people who want "only Koreans" would suddenly want "only Swedes". Both the obvious and most difficult solution is for foreign players to somehow pull up their games to stay competitive. | ||
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FesteringJester
United States3 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:06 Dodgin wrote: Mvp didn't attend the tournament so any wins over him in the bracket were BYE's. So if you think beating Nony and Dimaga was a good run then yes, but taking Mvp out of there It's not that impressive. I was not aware of that, so thanks. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
Koreans are far superior to foreigners and the joke hype surrounding IPL3 "foreigner resurgence" was made up of hope and little else. It's not too bad, Naniwa is doing well in GSL and Stephano is still showing he can compete, but it's not like anyone can seriously pretend the foreigner scene isn't mid-Masters on average compared to the "GM" Korean scene. Get used to having only one or two foreigners who can seriously compete with Koreans for tournament success (i.e. not a couple bo3 wins) at any one time, it's not going to change (except maybe for the worse) until the entire foreign scene does and going into denial doesn't help anyone. That said, I do enjoy opinion pieces even if I don't agree, so keep it up. :D | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On April 20 2012 20:16 DidYuhim wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i26.tinypic.com/2yv147n.gif) Foreigners winning against Koreans. This had me cracking up -- Why is Bob Sapp wearing jean shorts, lol? (I think those were Japanese men by the way.) | ||
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