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On April 20 2012 21:49 bbm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 21:29 Irre wrote:
If you are a fan of sc2 you should want to see the top level play, from WHOEVER is playing it. Don't be silly. You support your home teams. Back when I followed football I supported my local football team, not because they're the best (and believe me they weren't), but because they were local. Because they were from where I was from.
You do not be silly, not everyone thinks like that. i personally would like to see all of the best players play and sorry to us Foreigners but we know that the Koreans are way better. This article is so wrong, want to know why?
2011 MLG Columbus - 7Koreans 17 Foreigners MMA won, top 4 3koreans 1 foreigner
2011 MLG Anaheim - 8 Koreans 16 Foreigners MVP won, top 4 koreans
2011 MLG Raleigh - 9 Koreans 13 Foreigners Bomber won, top 4 koreans
Finally Huk wins MLG then what? Koreans have won. I took MLG as an example because it is the only tournament where the really good Code S Koreans go to and it has a good mixture of Foreigners and Korean Code S players. At the time of IPL 3, only MC and MMA were Code S players that were in that tournament. But did they lose to a foreigner? NO! They lost to Koreans to get knocked out. MMA by Puma and MC by Inori.
Please people do not act like if the tournament is equal in Koreans and Foreigners, that some how the Koreans are going to start playing badly and the Foreigner are going to become Gods of SC2 and win. NO, again. Foreigners need to step it up and get on the Koreans level because now we only have, what? Nawiwa, Huk, and Stephano..sad but true.
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Nicely written and truly spoken. Maybe it was because it was getting late in Finland at the time the last foreigner dropped out of the tournament, but that was when I stopped watching it live. If Stephano would have been able to go through the lower bracket, I'm sure I would have followed it all the way. Now I just watched the vods linstead.
Koreans are awesome to watch and they deserve the spotlight usually, but in IPL4 there might have been just a bit too much of Korean action for my taste.
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Don't know if I agree 100% with this article but it surely provides some interesting food for thoughts...
On April 20 2012 20:54 Benjamin99 wrote:
Excellent post and I agree with most of it.
Its time for the scene to stop inviting popular players anymore. The only player who did well in the groups was Stephano and he actually qualified by winning IPL 4 UK qualifier over Tails/Sase/Ryung
Also Scarlet won a qualify tournament and she did very well also. Illusion are the ode one out he didnt win any qualifiers or anything but he had massive succes. But not really supricing since im considering him the best NA player atm. But he dont get much love from the community but it is hard to keep up with Idra that got a million fans an are exstremely overhyped.
Feast is another example he dint play IPL4 but he is one of the few foreigners who has done very well recently and beat several top dogs. And how did he do it? He qualified to IEM
I think the lesson we need to learn as a community are stop inviting the oldschool overhyped players and lat the players qualify. Trust me the foreign scene will do much better
This is a point I'll never stress enough.
Tournaments keep inviting people who have not the skill / the need to win solely because they are from the very first hour or because they have a funny stream channel.
Everytime this big names fail, and everytime they are invited back.
Liquid`Nazgul Administrator April 20 2012 21:44
We're going to try and do more opinion articles in the future. It might be there will be some disagreement over the content occasionally, but regardless we consider it a positive development to put articles like this out there.
I also agree with Nazgul, it seems a cool idea.
As long as the articles do present their ideas without deliberately sounding offensive (cough cough a certain elephant cough) I don't see any bad.
Actually I think that IPL should read this one and benefit from it.
Edit: not that IPL4 was bad, mind!
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This feels like just another example of how MLG runs such a more successful event all the time.
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Good read, I think IPL 5 should do regional qualifers to ensure more foreign players get into pools. Idra, white ra and stephano. But at the same time, its kinda hard to not see a korean when this since there were so many. This tournament was about as hard as code S tournament.
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Hmm..
To me, IPL4 was a good tournament, i was following alive very closely recently because he did great in other tournaments before and i was so happy to see him wins it !
I don't care if i see only koreans in the top 16, i'm here to watch some starcraft action and to root for my favorite players. I"m rooting for _a lot_ of people, foreigners and koreans.
If they all had the same chances to make it, then i feel bad for my foreigners favorites but it's the game, i accept it and i'm happy for whoever wins.
But i agree that the open bracket did not recieve a great coverage, my only source of information was liquipedia and i would have loved to watch more games from it.
I agree that foreigners and koreans didn't have a good ratio but i strongly disagree if you suggest that we should make ratios.
Everyone should be able to participate, especially in open brackets, whatever the nationality.
Then the best man wins and that's how we should play a game imo.
It was a nice read anyway. I wouldn't be so harsh on them but i agree with the stream part. Less for the other stuff but we all have our opinions 
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Great article, IPL had an awful tournament system that killed most of my interest on day1 in unaired games, thanks for highlighting that. MLG seems to be a bit better in this regard now that their seeding system got reworked.
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that schedule seemed woefully inadequate for the incredible amount of talent that could've been covered
talent is relative. If you compare it to the average SCII player every game should have been covered due to the huge "talent". As a matter of fact though although Sase did not do bad he did not do very good either. The "talented" (=hard working?) players are the koreans. That is why they win all the time.
I am so sick of this foreigner-korean comparision all the time.
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Excellent article.
I find open bracket coverage to be lacking in most major tournaments 
Since foreign interest is tied to foreigners, why not have a dedicated steam for good open bracket games?
Additionally, one thing that current tournaments are lacking is good, concurrent analysis. Most of the time I have to keep a TL thread open just to get news on what I'm missing!
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On April 20 2012 22:21 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 21:49 bbm wrote:On April 20 2012 21:29 Irre wrote:
If you are a fan of sc2 you should want to see the top level play, from WHOEVER is playing it. Don't be silly. You support your home teams. Back when I followed football I supported my local football team, not because they're the best (and believe me they weren't), but because they were local. Because they were from where I was from. I see what you mean, but I don't think it can work out that way for SC2 in the U.S. There aren't local Starcraft teams as in sports--there are only a few well-known American SC2 players and this is a continent-sized country. There's no real opportunity to see famous players locally unless a major tournament happens to be scheduled in your city.
Because people aren't really enthusiastic about cheering on their own country in the olympics or anything, right? Local doesn't have to mean down the street from you, and you don't need to personally meet the competitors to still be excited about them. Most people will have seen their favourite sports teams maybe once a year, and even then it will be in a large city that is on average an hour or two away from them. They'll almost certainly never meet any of the players. Its really not so different.
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Yes it was pretty annoying, i am watching the tourneys, because i want to see foreigners beat korans. This was practically just another GSL with stephano instead of naniwa. (because of the open bracket coverage was missing) So eventhough the organisation and everything was stellar, i personally didnt really enjoy this event
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On April 20 2012 21:49 bbm wrote:
Don't be silly. You support your home teams. Back when I followed football I supported my local football team, not because they're the best (and believe me they weren't), but because they were local. Because they were from where I was from.
I get what you want to point out, but I'm of a different opinion for three reasons:
1) watching your favourite local football team VS Barcelona might be cool the first time, then it slowly becomes an appointment with your National Health Dentist: painful and predictable.
I'd rather watch my favourite (and why not? Bad. It's not like not being on top is a crime) team play with someone more evenly skilled.
2) personally I don't care about the nationality of the players, rather about the quality of the game.
3) it's not like you cannot support these players in other way, like watching their stream and so on!
There are also showmatches and things like that.
Let's face it: there are some famous players out there who have never achieved anything since the beta, yet they are most likely earning more money than some skilled koreans and foreign colleagues due to contracts and so on.
It's not a bad thing in itself, they are skilled with PR, merchandise and so on and deserve respect for that.
But there's nothing that makes me rage more than seeing these guys being invited again and again because "hey! It's X, he's so cool!" while there are way more deserving players that maybe won't go 0/5 in a group of 5 like predicted.
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I did notice Illusion had a great run and thought there should be more hype around it. However, media (casters and written news) seemed to ignore it since he didn't make it into groups.
It is first casters and then news writers that should bring those stories up .
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If i were a european "pro" i would think 2 times about traveling to a tournament packed with code S players and nealy a chance of 0,01% to win or get some money o.O
and thats what actually many european pros think. why should they do a stressfull and expensive trip without a chance of any profit by playing against over a dozen of koreans...
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Thank you for spotlighting Illusion, he was monstrous that event. I kept wondering "when is this guy going to lose?" Very well written TL, and wp illusion!
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I think it's a bit silly for TL to criticize IPL for seeding White-Ra and IdrA when TSL seeded players who won a similar tournament in a different game. -.-
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United States33511 Posts
On April 20 2012 22:55 lowkontrast wrote:
I think it's a bit silly for TL to criticize IPL for seeding White-Ra and IdrA when TSL seeded players who won a similar tournament in a different game. -.-
afaik, tree.hugger bothers the TSL staff all the time to stop seeding/inviting people
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On April 20 2012 22:55 lowkontrast wrote:
I think it's a bit silly for TL to criticize IPL for seeding White-Ra and IdrA when TSL seeded players who won a similar tournament in a different game. -.-
Did you miss this part?
The views and opinions of the author do not necessarily represent the opinions of TeamLiquid.net
so basically It's just treehuggers' thoughts.
TSL cannot even be compared to IPL it was a year ago and a totally different type of tournament too.
FUCKING NINAJ'D with an even better answer gtfo waxangel
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On April 20 2012 21:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
We're going to try and do more opinion articles in the future. It might be there will be some disagreement over the content occasionally, but regardless we consider it a positive development to put articles like this out there.
I hope you do Great article !
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Blast from the past ! LOL !!!
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EPT
