EPTYou can't really whine that the Koreans were given prime spots because other Koreans earned them even from the open bracket. The players to advance to group play from the open bracket were Ganzi, JYP, Squirtle, Jjakji, Parting, Curious, Creator, and GhostKing. Say what you will about the competition in the open bracket, that list is kind of what you'd expect to come out in the end.
[Opinion/IPL4] Much Ado About Nothing - Page 7
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
You can't really whine that the Koreans were given prime spots because other Koreans earned them even from the open bracket. The players to advance to group play from the open bracket were Ganzi, JYP, Squirtle, Jjakji, Parting, Curious, Creator, and GhostKing. Say what you will about the competition in the open bracket, that list is kind of what you'd expect to come out in the end. | ||
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KungFuGhost
19 Posts
Wow. I can't believe those posts weren't banned or deleted  I guess Team Liquid used to be more lenient? | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:24 FuzzyJAM wrote: It's pretty ridiculous to say "Think of all the foreigners who didn't show up to the event, that explains it!!" when at best 1/5th of the top Koreans showed up. Of the top 44, 19 were in code S and another 11 were in code A. I'm not sure how that translates to "at best 1/5th of the top Koreans showed up." See also this. | ||
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bikefrog
Norway451 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:24 FuzzyJAM wrote: It's pretty ridiculous to say "Think of all the foreigners who didn't show up to the event, that explains it!!" when at best 1/5th of the top Koreans showed up. Furthermore, if the best foreigners can cling to is "Yeah, well, we totally managed to win a couple series!" and pretend some foreigners had a successful event without even getting into the top 16 then you know there's a fucking huge gap. Koreans are far superior to foreigners and the joke hype surrounding IPL3 "foreigner resurgence" was made up of hope and little else. It's not too bad, Naniwa is doing well in GSL and Stephano is still showing he can compete, but it's not like anyone can seriously pretend the foreigner scene isn't mid-Masters on average compared to the "GM" Korean scene. Get used to having only one or two foreigners who can seriously compete with Koreans for tournament success (i.e. not a couple bo3 wins) at any one time, it's not going to change (except maybe for the worse) until the entire foreign scene does and going into denial doesn't help anyone. That said, I do enjoy opinion pieces even if I don't agree, so keep it up. :D It's pretty ridiculous to say "at best 1/5th of the top Koreans showed up". The top 5 of each race were present at IPL4, with the exception of DRG and maybe MVP (although I wouldn't put him in the top 5).You then go on to fetishize the Korean scene by postulating that the foreign scene is mid-masters compared with the best "GM" Koreans, even though it's painfully obvious that you have no idea who those Koreans are since you didn't even realize that they were present at IPL4. If you have a serious point to make, try doing it without all of the hyperbole. | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:34 KungFuGhost wrote: Wow. I can't believe those posts weren't banned or deleted I guess Team Liquid used to be more lenient?It's more along the lines of Rekrul can post whatever the hell he wants, not that It's alright for anyone to open up a thread and say foreigners suck in a rude way. | ||
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TheRealNanMan
United States1471 Posts
However like MLG or any other tournament with a large open bracket I constantly keep an eye on the liquipedia page for updates as well as twitter. Illusion is so good that it really is no surprise with how well he did! | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:34 Nourek wrote: Of the top 44, 19 were in code S and another 11 were in code A. I'm not sure how that translates to "at best 1/5th of the top Koreans showed up." Just over 1/2 the current GSL is obviously a lot and clearly the very cream of the crop was well represented, but the Korean scene is far larger than GSL. There are so many "B teamers" that would be favoured against most of the best foreigners that I think it's a reasonable thing to point out. That's where I'm getting my 1/5th from - the Korean scene isn't just Code S/A any more than the foreigner scene is Stephano/Naniwa/Sen, i.e. the only foreigners who have shown ability to compete in those tournaments recently. | ||
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
Also, love the Shakespeare reference =p | ||
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indigoawareness
Slovakia273 Posts
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:46 KungFuGhost wrote: I'm from the US and I actually cheer for Koreans and connect to them more then I do for foreigners. I just want to see the best players in the world compete, and it doesn't matter to me what country they are from. With the excellent Korean Starcraft 2 coverage we have on GOMTV now, many of our favorite players are Korean instead of foreigners. If foreign players step up and compete then great, but I personally think that at IPL and big tournaments, they should just try to get the best players period and not worry about if they are foreign or not. Patriotism is prejudice, and I generally root for my favorite Terran (MKP) over any foreigner he might face, and I would drive to Vegas to watch MKP, but I can't think of one foreign Terran that really excites me to go see in person. Is that bad? I don't think so. I was going to type up something similar to this, and then I saw you'd already done it for me Thanks! lol | ||
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
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Deezl
United States355 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:06 Deezl wrote: The looming question still remains: if we're all playing the same game, then why do people not living in Korea have a terrible success rate against people living in Korea? They were better in BW, they have a better field of players to practice against, *they put more effort into the game* and have team houses/coaches that allow them to succeed. | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On April 20 2012 20:16 DidYuhim wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i26.tinypic.com/2yv147n.gif) Foreigners winning against Koreans. Lmfao this made this thread for me. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:06 Deezl wrote: The looming question still remains: if we're all playing the same game, then why do people not living in Korea have a terrible success rate against people living in Korea? It's the team house environment Too many foreigners are treating the game more like a hobby than a job. In a Korean team house environment you live Starcraft 24/7. It becomes not only a job, but your life. It's the reason why foreigners in Korea not living in a team house (like desRow, LastShadow, etc) aren't showing drastic improvements like players that DO live in a team house environment (NaNiWa, SaSe, etc.) The problem is the foreign scene is too widespread for teams to realistically implement the team-house environment and nobody has done it yet. | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
The lack of Open bracket games was definitely something that could have been addressed....maybe they could get other talents to cast the games on their streams (TB, Husky et al) and have it so there was a way to watch the games. I'm sure there are many people out there who would have loved to have cast a few games for free just to get their names out, and it wouldn't have stressed the IPL streams anymore because they could have been invited FROM HOME to cast some of the games. Yes it would be a pain in the arse to advertise the games on lesser known streams, but at least they would have been out there. How can we avoid getting trounced without banning Koreans from tournaments? Impossible to tell. There are many things that we could do. Training sessions similar to the red bull lan where a group of players all set up in one persons home to just play together and work on strats. Also we need B teams for a few of the bigger teams, where the players don't get paid, but get to practice with the pros and attend a set ammount of events a year (say 1 big event a year they are paid for, anything else comes from their own wallet or private sponsorships). Korean teams have clans attatched where they can set up practice partners, or players are friends with each other and can practice like that. But the B team aspects will help the teams more than anyone can know. Getting a good Protoss in a B team to practice with IdrA until he understands the game will then free up the other A teamers to practice what they are weak in. So your A team is the team that gives you the results, they train on their own schedule, and the B teamers can then practice with them as they want. Incontrol may need vs T practice, but maybe he's stuck playing against IdrA to get his ZvP up, he can't practice his weakest match up because he's helping his team mate. Like wise John Doe in the B team will be there to play against IdrA whenever he needs to practice against a P. And why not have a clan underneath which is affiliated with the team, so that the team will have picks of anyone who seriously performs well to add to their B. | ||
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Dakure
United States513 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:59 FuzzyJAM wrote: Just over 1/2 the current GSL is obviously a lot and clearly the very cream of the crop was well represented, but the Korean scene is far larger than GSL. There are so many "B teamers" that would be favoured against most of the best foreigners that I think it's a reasonable thing to point out. That's where I'm getting my 1/5th from - the Korean scene isn't just Code S/A any more than the foreigner scene is Stephano/Naniwa/Sen, i.e. the only foreigners who have shown ability to compete in those tournaments recently. So if I understand this correctly, you're extending "best Koreans" to cover koreans in Code S, Code A, and some (albeit top-level) Code B? So sure, maybe 1/5 of the top Korean scene showed up, but of that 1/5, around 25% were Code S players--the very VERY best of the Korean scene. 1/5 of the top koreans but ~66% of the absolutely best Koreans (as defined by GSL-rankings). | ||
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