As another writer's need to write a passionate argument shows, the Code S seed situation is not exactly clear cut. In 2012, the seed system changed to be one of pure discretion on GomTV's part, a marked change from the 2011 system, where there was a specific, pure merit based system that awarded a Code S seed to the highest placing player at an MLG event who did not already have a Code S seed.
In 2012's first season, the results of the change could not have been more apparent: EG.IdrA and GAMANIASen were awarded the seeds without having notable tournament results in the months preceding. Off the top of my head, EG.PuMa and Liquid`HerO were more deserving if you consider only tournament finishes (the new system also allowed GomTV to award seeds to Koreans). We all know the results: IdrA and Sen bombed out of Code S as last place in their groups. IdrA continued his fall into Code B, though Sen recovered and found a way into the Up-Down matches.
It was nothing if not predictable. If you exclude singular success story EG.HuK, the combined record of the thirteen international seed recipients was 14 wins and 51 losses in 2011. Oh, and most of them were seeded into Code A.
The GSL can't possibly think that their Code S picks for 2012 Season One were a success (unless, I dunno, a few thousand of you bought season tickets in order to see IdrA once). Perhaps Sen and IdrA could have done better in different groups, on a different day, but as the results stand, it was a blemish on the GSL's reputation as the most prestigious, difficult league in the world. Some kind of move back to a more meritocratic system is inevitable.
However, it's not possible to just pick guys that are known to be good. The selection should be justifiable in some kind of way (even if it is not completely transparent or explicit), and tournament results are the most convenient place to default to. At the same time, the aspect of making a calculated risk and discovering the new HuK (or, maybe just getting the old HuK) must still be considered, as a good gamble could draw a ton of international eyeballs. With those factors in mind, here are the three candidates that seem the most likely: EG.HuK, QxG.NaNiwa, and TSL_Polt. The two that are chosen will depend on how GSL weighs the various factors.
After a disappointing finish to 2011, HuK took an extended vacation in Canada. In his first games back from his break, he produced yet another disappointing loss, losing to BumblebeePrime and fell to Code B. It was no cause for alarm, however, as it turned out to just be the bottom of yet another up and down cycle for HuK. He bounced back with a third place finish at MLG Winter Arena, similar to how he bounced back from a minor slump to win MLG Orlando last year.
HuK's recent tournament resume is a bit thin. He basically didn't do anything in 2012 until MLG Winter Arena, where he came in and blasted his way to third place. Other candidates either went all the way and took first place, or defeated a stronger pool of players in a non-first finish.
However, it doesn't really matter, as third place is a good pretty decent excuse to throw in the only blooded and proven Code S class foreigner, the only one that has shown he can actually stick around for a few rounds. There is a market out there, for whom the tipping point of buying a single Code S season ticket is seeing a foreigner duke it out evenly with the Koreans. HuK is the only person in the world who can honestly sell that ticket.
Well, no one is ever going to tell us if NaNiwa's reward for placing second at MLG Providence actually was the GSL Blizzard Cup, or if it was just something the GSL made up to revoke his 2012 Code S seed as punishment for his probe rush. In any case, he was considered before, and he will probably be considered again.
NaNiwa's performances vary wildly, but at least when he hits his highs, he could be even better than HuK. His MLG Providence run is fresh in everyone's memory, and he just added yet another Nestea kill and a Leenock revenge kill to his list of famous heads poached. As a guy who has the potential, at least, to make a very deep run into Code S, GSL must be very intrigued in NaNiwa. Some people would buy GSL tickets for a single series, if NaNiwa ever made the finals. Of course, the looming 0 – 10 record in GSL represents his lows quite well (although, you could argue many of those came before he hit his current skill level).
Top eight IEM Kiev and top eight MLG New York don't look very good on paper, but they're not things that will stop GomTV if they really wanted NaNiwa. I mean, does anyone even remember why mouzMorroW got an Up/Down seed, or even remember asking? A willingness to come to Korea and improve is all GomTV really needs to see. Add the flair NaNiwa's bad guy streak would add to an otherwise timid league, and you've got an enticing package.
As mentioned above, the GSL is willing to seed a player who does not have the best tournament results, as long as they really want him. Polt will test if they're ready to do the inverse: deny a seed to a player who DOES have all the tournament results. Polt has a first place finish at ASUS ROG Assembly Winner, two MSI Pro Cup victories, and a qualification for IPL4 through a very tough bracket as recent achievements. A foreigner with that resume would easily be called the best foreigner in the world.
As Fionn has so adeptly shown, you can almost shame the GSL into seeding Polt after the abysmal performances of foreigners this season. Forget his merits as a player (he's definitely Code S class, a guy who can keep bringing his best in the later rounds, and knows how to prepare for a series) – if the GSL doesn't seed Polt in favor of a foreigner, it would show GomTV doesn't mind tarnishing their reputation a little, in order to sell more tickets. It's something every tournament does to some degree, but it would be one of the most explicit admissions of that fact.
It's a delicate balance, as the GSLs reputation for being the world's most elite league is something that sells tickets as well. New viewers might come to watch NaNi or HuK, but the dissatisfaction of hardcore GSL fans might grow further if they were to bomb out like Sen and IdrA. The GSL will have to measure this choice very carefully.
Unlikely candidates (some more than others).
For fun, here are a few of the less likely, but still possible seed candidates.
Empire|viOLet: Like Polt, viOLet's championship performance at IEM Sao Paulo necessitates some form of recognition. Unfortunately for viOLet, the perception has been established that Assembly > IEM non-final events. IEM Global Challenge events are the kind of thing GomTV uses to justify splendid ideas like "let's put DongRaeGu in the Blizzard Cup," and not much else. The only way I see him getting the seed is if it Gom goes 100% conciliatory mode for Sen/IdrA, and go purely merit based with Polt and viOLet.
MarineKingPrime: If he should somehow lose his Code A match, and then drop out of the Up-Downs, then obviously MKP will get in.
EG.IdrA: If you're willing to sacrifice integrity, why not go the full nine yards?
EG.DeMusliM: Three conditions for this to even begin to be possible. 1) GomTV just can't stomach giving IdrA a seed next season, 2) They still have a grudge against NaNiwa/think he had enough chances, 3) DeMusliM states his desire to go to Korea in time.
Mill.Stephano: It's his the second he asks for it, so it's all contingent on his will to go to Korea. GomTV might really have to bribe him to make this worth his while.
Non-Code S, Winner of IEM Grand Finals: DRG, MC, and MMA already have Code S seeds. Zenio, SuperNoVa, and JYP could have them too, depending on how the up-downs go. Perhaps a high finish from Ret, and...
Whoever they choose, it will be a business decision for the GSL, and I think our collective acceptance of business decisions has grown considerably this weekend. It looks like MLG's paid off. Your move, GSL.
This article does not endorse the seeding of a specific player. It is a look at the factors that would affect such a decision, and speculation on the likely candidates based on those factors.
"Manner Mule" by Fishuu
Writer: Waxangel. Graphics and Art: Meko and Pony Tales (disciple and Lip the Pencilboy). Editor: Waxangel
"Stephano: It's his the second he asks for it, so it's all contingent on his will to go to Korea." One can only hope he decides to, he's a fantastic player and personality. But I reckon it'll be HuK and a korean.
It would be really interesting if Stephano would agree, most people will say that he said "no" some time ago, yes but now his market value is even stronger because Idra and Sen bombed out. I can see Gom "bribing" him with offer.
Note: With those factors in mind, here are the four candidates that seem the most likely: EG.HuK, QxG.NaNiwa, and TSL_Polt. The two that are chosen will depend on how GSL weighs the various factors.
Pretty much sums it up. I think the most likely are those three as well. Polt and Naniwa I'm thinking. Everyone agrees that his actions are in the past. I think.
I would love to see Stephano in code S but I don't think he's willing to accept it as he prefers to win the easier European tournaments.
Besides him, as a foreigner, I think NaNiwa's run at MLG is the most impressive and that he deserves it this time if Gom's willing to forgive the probe rush (I don't want to downgrade Huk's achievement in that MLG but he had a really easier bracket than everyone else).
I would give the 2 spots to NaNiwa (to have a foreigner) and Polt (as long as Stephano still doesn't accept it).
On February 27 2012 19:42 Ktk wrote: Note: With those factors in mind, here are the four candidates that seem the most likely: EG.HuK, QxG.NaNiwa, and TSL_Polt. The two that are chosen will depend on how GSL weighs the various factors.
Pretty much sums it up. I think the most likely are those three as well. Polt and Naniwa I'm thinking. Everyone agrees that his actions are in the past. I think.
my bad, typo from when I included violet in the top group, and then it seemed more and more unlikely when I thought about it.
I would want Polt and Stephano. GOM should just give this french dude 2000 dollars or sth (unofficially ofc), then hes on his plane to SK. An GOM sells A LOT of tickets to get a good ROI. and we, the spectators, finally have the best foreigner in GSL
On February 27 2012 19:43 Black17 wrote: I would love to see Stephano in code S but I don't think he's willing to accept it as he prefers to win the easier European tournaments.
With so many Korean invites these days I can't see it being that all too much now, It's probably just the distance from family and friends - I'm certain He'll go to Korea again at some point, when however I don't know. God I want him to have a serious run in the GSL, my favourite moments have probably been when Jinro was hitting ro4's.
What did I just read? Seemed to me there was a whole paragraph that could be summarized as:
Naniwa: Naniwa has no outstanding tournament results in 2012, however since gom has given out seeds randomly as in the case of Idra and Sen, they might as well give Naniwa one.
And why is violet only a minor candidate? He won Sao Paolo and was the 2nd highest non-code S finisher of MLG Winter Arena! I'd say switch the places of Naniwa and viOlet. Not that it matters though, because I doubt viOlet is willing to go back to Korea.
On February 27 2012 19:52 MentalM wrote: I thought they had to be considered "foreigners" aswell, and that would rule out Polt being able to receive any seed?
Nope, Mr. Chae said that Koreans with good international results can be given a seed as well.
I would love to say Demuslim but I think it would be too much for him to get tossed into that right away. Would really love to see him end up in Korea soon, but with the MLG's coming up who knows.
I think Naniwa has learned his lesson from his previous mistake. He appeared more mature from it in the HotBid interview of all places lol. Would love to see him continue to make respectable moves, while growing on the biggest scene.
Idra, so much to say. I would shift his focus onto upcoming MLG's and not put much concern in code S.
Huk with his recent finish and getting a great showing of what he is capable of in the past, would be the most deserving of the spot.
You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
It would be a damned shame if they didn't give Polt a seed.
He's a freaking former GSL Champion! How could they POSSIBLY deny him a seed after his run in foreigner tournaments lately. It would be an absolute sham.
IMO, it'll probably be Polt and Huk. If I had my choice in the matter it would be Polt and Stephano. Polt is a quintissential Code S Terran in my mind, and Stephano has never been to the GSL before after proving on many occasions that he's one of the few foreigners that can go toe to toe with Koreans consistently which is not something i can say about MOST of the top tier foreigner players.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
If they're handing out seeds based on racial representation then that too is also a sham.
Code S should be representative of the best in the world regardless of what race they play. Any less just cheapens it.
Polt has earned that seed. He's fought his way through several Code S quality players at assembly to prove it.
I think they should be hesitant in giving all the seeds to Koreans. The reason this seed system came to be was to make it easier for people outside of Korea to enter the GSL, because they didn't have to fly over and try out the qualifiers to even have a chance to get in. Any of the Koreans mentioned can just get back in the GSL like any other Korean, through the Code A qualifiers. If they're good enough they will get back in.
I don't really know its a problem is to compete in GSL they have to move to korea for at least 2 months if they get far in which is a big commitment that some players just don't want to make. In a perfect world GSL would be an online competition with the finals in korea so it would reduce the travel burden but it would make the competition radically different and in some ways worse in terms of the live aspect of the gom studios and the crowd not being there which is a nice thing.
I don't know id love if all of the best players in the world could compete but at the moment that isn't going to be something that GSL does.
On February 27 2012 19:52 MentalM wrote: I thought they had to be considered "foreigners" aswell, and that would rule out Polt being able to receive any seed?
Nope, Mr. Chae said that Koreans with good international results can be given a seed as well.
That's the official statement, but if they were to actually do that, Hero and Puma would have received the seeds for last season instead of IdrA and Sen, no?
I think it's most likely a foreigner that gets the seed, probably Huk and Naniwa. Unlike the MLG code S seed where it's written in black and white that the highest non-code S finisher gets the seed, the criteria is unsure. Otherwise I think Puma and Hero would've already gotten their seed based on Dreamhack and NASL 2 back then.
On February 27 2012 19:52 MentalM wrote: I thought they had to be considered "foreigners" aswell, and that would rule out Polt being able to receive any seed?
Nope, Mr. Chae said that Koreans with good international results can be given a seed as well.
That's the official statement, but if they were to actually do that, Hero and Puma would have god the seeds instead of IdrA and Sen, no?
It is true, the first time around Hero and Puma were the best choices, but maybe with putting it out there with these articles, we can show Mr. Chae that some Korean players, like Polt and Violet, do deserve strong consideration for the spots. As he must have seen, the choices of Idra and Sen (less so since he stayed in Code A), weren't the best in the world competition-wise. Maybe they can sell more tickets in America and Taiwan, but they weren't factors in the tournament themselves.
On February 27 2012 20:05 Logros wrote: I think they should be hesitant in giving all the seeds to Koreans. The reason this seed system came to be was to make it easier for people outside of Korea to enter the GSL, because they didn't have to fly over and try out the qualifiers to even have a chance to get in. Any of the Koreans mentioned can just get back in the GSL like any other Korean, through the Code A qualifiers. If they're good enough they will get back in.
Except the Code A qualifiers combined with Code A itself and the Up and Down matches is literally 3 to 4 to 10 times harder than MOST foreigner tournaments.
I think that right now stephano might be the best foreigner. When HuK is doing well he is obviously Code S material, but i feel like he swings from amazing to mediocre a little to put up consistent GSL results. He just seems like a bit of a gamble.
On February 27 2012 19:52 MentalM wrote: I thought they had to be considered "foreigners" aswell, and that would rule out Polt being able to receive any seed?
Nope, Mr. Chae said that Koreans with good international results can be given a seed as well.
That's the official statement, but if they were to actually do that, Hero and Puma would have got the seeds instead of IdrA and Sen, no?
It is true, the first time around Hero and Puma were the best choices, but maybe with putting it out there with these articles, we can show Mr. Chae that some Korean players, like Polt and Violet, do deserve strong consideration for the spots. As he must have seen, the choices of Idra and Sen (less so since he stayed in Code A), weren't the best in the world competition-wise. Maybe they can sell more tickets in America and Taiwan, but they weren't factors in the tournament themselves.
Yeah, i really hope they'll give a seed to Polt... The tweet that Mr Chae sent to Polt saying something like "Congratulations, I've been watching all night, amazing play!" if I am to believe Google Translate, could be an indication that GOM is ready to give Polt a seed.
The tweet went:
Jungwon Chae @WoWnStarcraft @Polt88 축하한다!!! 게임 밤새 봤다 정말 잘하더라 멋있었어
Choi Seong Hun @Polt88 @WoWnStarcraft 네 ㅎㅎ 감사합니다!!
Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
I just wish we could get to see Stephano in Korea. I think the problem might be that he, as he has himself said many times, is looking to make some money. That will obviously be harder in Korea than it is in Europe, unless he thinks he can go the whole way and finish near the top of Code S (which, honestly, I wouldn't rule out completely, if he dedicated himself to a prolonged stay).
If only Mill. were willing to pay him a good, proper salary to go to Korea, so that the incentive for staying in Europe was smaller. I'm sure he's not all about the money. He must have some desire to prove himself as more than "just" the best foreigner.
On February 27 2012 20:33 Nimic wrote: I just wish we could get to see Stephano in Korea. I think the problem might be that he, as he has himself said many times, is looking to make some money. That will obviously be harder in Korea than it is in Europe, unless he thinks he can go the whole way and finish near the top of Code S (which, honestly, I wouldn't rule out completely, if he dedicated himself to a prolonged stay).
If only Mill. were willing to pay him a good, proper salary to go to Korea, so that the incentive for staying in Europe was smaller. I'm sure he's not all about the money. He must have some desire to prove himself as more than "just" the best foreigner.
Fingers crossed.
He also said he didn't enjoy living there and that was the main reason he was happy to come back in France. He said he got bored over there, and doesn't want to stay there for sure, so... yeah, the chances to see him competing in the GSL one day seem really low
The 2 picks should really be Huk and Naniwa , or 2 good koreans that have fallen of code S..
Since they give direct to code S seeds , i really hope that one of those goes to Naniwa , he sucked hard at the blizzard cup and he really needs something like this to give him hope and willpower to train harder ..
SC2 is alive and well , matches are action packed and mostly well played and we all love to root for the foreigners , its like Korea vs the world , i like it
I feel like they shouldn't give these seeds to players who just fell out of GSL, such as Huk and Polt. Let them simmer for a season, if they can't get back in, maybe invite them then...
As much as I'd LOVE Polt or Violet to get back to code S, I really don't think they should give code S seeds to people who bombed out of GSL very recently. Would rather have that some 'fresh' blood got code S invites than polt/violet/huk. Naniwa/Stephano/Ret/Kas/Demuslim are all good I'd say, or even just giving CoCa his old code S back (the dude was sick good).
Honestly, huk just does not deserve it. He only won games with all in play versus Ret, won some PvPs and got absolutely destroyed in any macro game he tried. Huks not worth a code s spot.
Perhaps you should extend the discussion to the Up/Down Seeds as well. You make it seem like Violet is a really farfetched pick for Code S, but giving him an Up/Down seed doesn't seem too bad. Same for someone like Puma.
And importantly, the Up/Downs are closer in time than the next season of Code S, so it makes for a more important discussion.
I think Naniwa should get a seed because of how he was robbed of one. For number two I vote Coca or Polt. Huk needs to show more recent consistency than one 3rd place finish before he gets a seed. Wait a season and give it to him if he properly ends his slump.
NaNiwa and TaeJa ... TaeJa is really amazing and he was unlucky at Assembly where he met Polt in the first round ... NaNiwa was pushed enough by GOM and also it is important to have at least one foreigner in GSL (for example I will not buy GSL pass unless there is a foreigner)
On February 27 2012 20:57 radiantshadow92 wrote: No foreigner deserves it. It should go to violet and polt.
I second this.Violet wasn't that good last time and now he is surprising me with such a strong finish at MLG Arena and won IEM San Paulo.But i doubt he take it.Polt is also deserving for this Code S seed.
On February 27 2012 21:02 Xiphiasar wrote: I think Naniwa should get a seed because of how he was robbed of one. For number two I vote Coca or Polt. Huk needs to show more recent consistency than one 3rd place finish before he gets a seed. Wait a season and give it to him if he properly ends his slump.
What did Naniwa achieve in 2012? 8th/9th @ MLG. Huk placed 3rd. How come Naniwa deserves the spot more?
Yes HuK played bad around the time he spend almost all of his time on plains and tournaments. But the reason is kinda obvious.. Now that he is getting back in shape and travels/competes less he is better again.
Regarding the skill I don't see huge differences, HuK however didn't forfeit GomTV matches.
Still they will probably get Naniwa if they cannot / don't want to get IdrA. One foreign "badboy" is needed to attract a certain kind of fans.
I would really like to see Stephano in GSL sooner or later, I want to know how he will do in real competition, so far he has almost always been at the events with the lesser player pool. On the other hand, Koreans know Stephano too well, he wouldn't stand a chance against these super prepared coached top players without equal amounts of support. So -> Gogo Stephano+personal coach in GSL 2012
Polt simply has the best cards in his hand and he's shown the most wins so far this year. So it would only be fair to give Polt a code S spot.
The other i would have liked to see to Stephano but like the writer said the'd have to bribe him to go there.
Naniwa seems to me the best second option, i honestly think he's got more talent then Huk and should provide for better games.
Huk after that for his MLG arena run.
I don't see them inviting anyone else then these players. I pray it's not Idra for he would take a slot for only the cash Gom plans to make, and be out in no time.
My vote goes to Naniwa. Much more deserving than HuK at the very least from the result of MLG Arena.
- HuK's run ... Minigun (2:1), Socke (2:0), Ret (2:1), Oz (2:0) - Naniwas run ... LosirA (2:1), Sheth (2:1), Nestea (2:1), Leenock (2:1) - They both got knocked out of the tournament by MKP+DRG
And don't give me the HuK finished 3rd Naniwa was 7/8 crap if you have not seen all games they played at the arena tournament.
Stephano sounds good to me. He had a decent showing last time in Korea. If the seeds are meant to help get a more global viewership for GOMTV, than someone controversial like Idra or Naniwa would be good.
The only player I wouldn't mind getting seeded into Code S right now is Stephano.
Invites to people who have just been knocked out or have tried multiple times to qualify and failed just does not seem right to me. I could stomach MLG because at least there you had to win a tournament and it was pretty clear how that works. When it's just an invite system though. . .eh.
On February 27 2012 21:26 Shinobi1982 wrote: My vote goes to Naniwa. Much more deserving than HuK at the very least from the result of MLG Arena.
- HuK's run ... Minigun (2:1), Socke (2:0), Ret (2:1), Oz (2:0) - Naniwas run ... LosirA (2:1), Sheth (2:1), Nestea (2:1), Leenock (2:1) - They both got knocked out of the tournament by MKP+DRG
And don't give me the HuK finished 3rd Naniwa was 7/8 crap if you have not seen all games they played at the arena tournament.
Actually, Naniwa beat Grubby after which Grubby beat Losira.
I agree that Naniwa deserves it, while Huk doesn't deserve to be even mentioned as one of the three biggest contenders in my opinion.
1. Huk (MLG Winter Arena - Top 3 and highest non-code S finisher) 2. Polt (Assembly Winter - Champion) 3. viOlet (IEM Sao Paolp - Champion; MLG Winter Arena - Top 6 and second highest non-code S finisher) 4. Naniwa (MLG Winter Arena - Top 8 and third highest non-code S finisher)
I don't think that stuff from 2011 should go into the decision of the march seeds, as they already went into the decision of the january seeds (at least officially).
Polt is the only person who I think should be a certainty, he crushed a litarny of great players in dominant fashion. His recent GSL exit is the only shadow on him, but he was ill shortly before his games so there's an argument that that hurt him, and then there's precedent with MC, MMA, and DRG all having got their spots from foreign events and look where they are now.
Stephano won't take one so the point is moot, all he needs to do is express interest though and GSL will ship him over instantly. Best foreigner by a mile.
Huk did the best of the foreigners but he got a gift draw and looked out of his depth playing the top Koreans (outside of PvP) so I don't know what to think there. I'd more inclined to give it to him if he hadn't been struggling in the EWM tournaments too.
Naniwa beat a better range of players while losing to the same, but his terrible GSL record doesn't exactly inspire confidence and his series wins (whilst exciting) weren't exactly the cleanest games ever either.
Demuslim outperformed himself and with a good showing at IEM you could argue the new blood angle, but I think he still has an invite to an up and down spot sometime which would probably be a better fit than Code S.
viOlet is the other person I think who's probably earned it with his great placings at HSC, win at IEM, and another top finish at MLG. I don't think he's that interested in going back to Korea to play in the GSL though since he seems to be enjoying life in NA for now.
On February 27 2012 21:42 MayorITC wrote: They should make a tournament for the Code S seed and have the winner get it. Therefore the player earns his Code S seed (somewhat).
and call it code A
I agree that polt's performance would make him #1 to get it. However, I also think if they could convince stephano to go.......
It is actually very pleasing to see that foreigner performance is as terrible as it has been in the past year. It's evidence that hard work and dedication still pay off, and that Koreans are still the most hard-working.
I'd love to see Naniwa in there if he was game. If he wants to be there I can't see him repeating previous performance, and his games are just so much fun to watch.
I would honestly love to see Stephano in GSL Code S. Not because i'm a huge fanboy, but because I think no matter what group he would be placed in, I think he honestly would have a good chance at making it out of his group. Also I think it should be sort of an unwritten rule that people given seeds one season, cannot be given seeds in the season directly after. Idra shouldn't get it, simply because he doesn't deserve it. There is no indication that if he arrives in code S again he won't just drop straight back to code B. Same goes to Sen.
I think HuK will be given a seed and not sure who else. Out of everyone Polt deserves it most. But I think he is solid enough to make it back up on his own merits.
The whole article just comes off as some sort of vague, baseless whine about Gomtv losing "integrity" without ever clarifying what classes as having integrity in the first place. Terrible article really. There was no explicit statement made that the seeds were meant to be rigid or results based anyway, and why should they be? Giving weird players a chance isn't going to kill the hopes of sure bets like DRG and Genius getting in, and it has two possible results. Make the tournament exciting by providing upsets from unexpected players, or have them get knocked out and ultimately not affect the later rounds anyway.
Goot article overall but I don't even understand that you're talking about Naniwa possibly making a GSL finals if he gets his Code S seed. I mean it's been proven times and times again that foreigners do very bad with the GSL format. Naniwa is a player that revolves around a lot of 2 base play, if people have the time to study his play and prepare for it he's not even gonna be a threat. Aside from that, Polt for OBVIOUS reasons should get the first seed and the second will likely go to Naniwa because he will bring so much viewership. HuK in my opinion doesn't deserve the seed as much as Polt and Naniwa do. If you look at who he has beaten to make his top 3 finish, we got 2 average foreigners, a top foreigner (Ret) and then a top korean Protoss (Oz) but it was pvp so it's not as valuable as if he had beaten MKP or DRG.
Am I the only one finding it awkward to give seeds to players who were just recently in the GSL and got eleminated, and should therefore requalify though code B like everyone else?
I mean let's take the case of Huk, really like him but does he really deserve to be given a free ticket back into code A after he stopped practicing for 3 weeks and lost all his important matches in the GSL, does he really deserve the privilege of not having to requalify through code B like all his korean peers would have to, is this really fair?
I think it's very different than giving seeds to players who never had the chance to go to Korea, but who deserve to be in the GSL. For players that were in the GSL because of a seed already and got eleminated I don't think it's appropriate to give them yet ANOTHER seed, they should earn their place back through code B and prove they are really worthy of being there. Now that would ensure they'd be able to put out great games.
On February 27 2012 22:11 GuitarBizarre wrote: The whole article just comes off as some sort of vague, baseless whine about Gomtv losing "integrity" without ever clarifying what classes as having integrity in the first place. Terrible article really. There was no explicit statement made that the seeds were meant to be rigid or results based anyway, and why should they be?
On February 27 2012 22:13 Demorase wrote: Am I the only one finding it awkward to give seeds to players who were just recently in the GSL and got eleminated, and should therefore requalify though code B like everyone else?
I mean let's take the case of Huk, really like him but does he really deserve to be given a free ticket back into code A after he stopped practicing for 3 weeks and lost all his important matches in the GSL, does he really deserve the privilege of not having to requalify through code B like all his korean peers would have to, is this really fair?
I think it's very different than giving seeds to players who never had the chance to go to Korea, but who deserve to be in the GSL. For players that were in the GSL because of a seed already and got eleminated I don't think it's appropriate to give them yet ANOTHER seed, they should earn their place back through code B and prove they are really worthy of being there. Now that would ensure they'd be able to put out great games.
Same for me, but who is a better candidate to invite, based on results? As far as I see, he one of the best results of all non-Code S players, whether Korean or non-Korean.
Nice write-up, except it is inaccurate regarding Violet. Even if IEM is to be considered minor event, he placed above Naniwa in MLG Winter Arena, so he is a better placed candidate. If he wants to play it that is.
As far as foreigners go, I think GOM would do well to call Stephano and MAKE HIM come and play. In my opinion Stephano is definitely the best foreigner, with Naniwa coming in second.
If you look at Stephano's last performance vs the very top, at the Bizzard Cup, he played exceptionally well vs the best players in the world, and barely went out with 2:2, partly due to the fact that his deciding game was played before MC's.
Please, PLEASE get Stephano in Code S!! (And this coming from a terran player )
i thing the intention of the seeds is also to bring new people into code s, i doubt players who just got eliminated form code s will get reinvited through foreigner seeds
Polt and Stephano only ones who have proven themselves this year so far, Polt is defintely Code S material ..of course if we are talking Foreigner it gets tougher as its unlikely they will be inviting Naniwa back so soon after his infamous probe rush and Huk already bombed out this season as you stated. That said he is Code S material too.
As long as its not Idra..he is an excellent player yes, but I want my Foreigners not just to play well but to be Ambassadors of the game and he is the worst with his continual rage quitting and balance whining (clearly Leenock, Stephano and of course DRG are not having same problems). If I ran a tourney I would never invite him. Of course Naniwa and Stephano are not exactly Tournament friendly personalities either. I do concede the three of them are the biggest draws in the Foreign scene at the moment.
Foreigners may not be suited to the format where opponents have so long to prepare for one match up.
Coming from a chess background in my youth I see quitea few similarities...World Championship matches allowed an individual to practice for one individual and they could study their style and opening repertoire and of course their opponents knew this and would learn new openings and styles. It suited hard working meticulous players. (Naniwa would be my pick to succeed in this format).
Tournament structures tended to suit more aggressive personalites (Stephano is my pick in this format) who would put it all on the line..of course both styles can be mastered if you are good enough (Kasparov / DRG) but I am not sure the Foreign scene is quite there yet
It is getting there with more mature Team structures (Milleniums new House perhaps giving Stephano a boost on what was already an impressive 2011 performance.). Anyways lets cross our fingers and hope the likes of Sheth, Ret, Thorzain, Mana and the rest get similar opportunities to improve and shine as I have some concerns Koreans will clean sweep all majors tournies this year otherwise!
I wish Stephano would take the invite. He's the only person I could see getting past a group of code S Koreans right now. Naniwa also showing that he's been practicing hard by taking out Nestea and Leenock.
On February 27 2012 22:11 GuitarBizarre wrote: The whole article just comes off as some sort of vague, baseless whine about Gomtv losing "integrity" without ever clarifying what classes as having integrity in the first place. Terrible article really. There was no explicit statement made that the seeds were meant to be rigid or results based anyway, and why should they be?
I get more hyped to see GSL when there are foreigners in it. But to seed foreigners into code S if they can't compete is just silly. At the moment I feel there are only 2 foreigners who deserves such a spot, and that is Huk and Stephano, and if GSL get them to accept they should get a spot. Are they more deserving then the likes of Hero and Puma, no, but from a business perspective and from a spectator perspective it makes more sense to seed foreigners directly into code S than it is to seed koreans.
Other foreigners who got potential and might be considered for future invites if they step up their game abit is DeMuslim, Naniwa, Ret, Grubby (if he continues to improve) and of course Idra. All of these would also be good enough to receive code A invites.
On February 27 2012 22:26 Ireniicus wrote: Polt and Stephano only ones who have proven themselves this year so far, Polt is defintely Code S material ..of course if we are talking Foreigner it gets tougher as its unlikely they will be inviting Naniwa back so soon after his infamous probe rush and Huk already bombed out this season as you stated. That said he is Code S material too.
You know I don't think it's that unlikely, Gom stated Naniwa wasn't permanently banned or anything like that, he just lost his seed for that one season after his blunder. With all the hate he was getting in the korean scene at the time it was the only sensible thing to do anyway.
I think koreans are ok with Naniwa now, he was recently in the GSTL for Startale team and while he didn't get to play, him being in the front row for a GSTL match shows that the incident in the past. All he needs now is some strong results and Gom would be willing to give him a code A seed I think.
I'd love to see Stephano in Code S, and I'm sure he'd get it in an instant if he desired it. Not so sure that'll happen though, he doesn't really seem to want it.
On February 27 2012 22:26 Ireniicus wrote: Polt and Stephano only ones who have proven themselves this year so far, Polt is defintely Code S material ..of course if we are talking Foreigner it gets tougher as its unlikely they will be inviting Naniwa back so soon after his infamous probe rush and Huk already bombed out this season as you stated. That said he is Code S material too.
You know I don't think it's that unlikely, Gom stated Naniwa wasn't permanently banned or anything like that, he just lost his seed for that one season after his blunder. With all the hate he was getting in the korean scene at the time it was the only sensible thing to do anyway.
I think koreans are ok with Naniwa now, he was recently in the GSTL for Startale team and while he didn't get to play, him being in the front row for a GSTL match shows that the incident in the past. All he needs now is some strong results and Gom would be willing to give him a code A seed I think.
Technically he wasn't banned at all. He had the option to try to qualify for code a for the current season but chose not to. It was his own decision (according to the quantic/naniwa statement). Wheter or not this will affect his chances to get an invite for the next season is another question.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I hate seeds for the GSL. Its so degrading to the name of code s and code a to have someone just injected in there, when theres far more hard working and better koreans just trying to get into the GSL. Screw the seeds, just let the foreigners work for it, just like everyone else.
With gsl finals wrapping up this week we'll know who they settle on soon enough right? LIke 7-10 days at most?
I think NaNi and Huk deserve a chance for sure, stephano would of course be welcome and polt/violet/lots of really awesome koreans do as well. We can justify anyone really. For pure drive though, someone who came to korea teamless and proved his grounds on the korean ladder to get noticed, SaSe comes to mind first. He's prolly more off/on than huk and nani and hasn't won anything major outside of a few online tournaments but he's super manner and wildly entertaining. Oh and if huk is top three control then sase is a solid top 2 control, kinda ridiculous.
Basically i'd like to see two protosses and a zerg; sase, nani and stephano but if the latter doesn't come around then sase should be awarded it imho.
On February 27 2012 23:07 TBone- wrote: I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I hate seeds for the GSL. Its so degrading to the name of code s and code a to have someone just injected in there, when theres far more hard working and better koreans just trying to get into the GSL. Screw the seeds, just let the foreigners work for it, just like everyone else.
This would only lead to not having any foreigners in GSL ever. Why would the best foreigners fight their way through Code B and Code A to get into Code S, when there are foreign tournements that pay better then Code S itself. Getting into Code S through code B is for up and comming koreans and former korean greats who have to fight their way back. Not having dedicated spots for outsiders into tournements will only lead to segregation between the different scenes, and that would be the beginning to the end of SC2 as an e-sport.
We need a somewhat competetive foreign scene for SC2 to survive and blossom as an e-sport, and the best way to secure that is by giving the best foreigners a chance directly in the premium korean tournement...
If they are looking at performance in foreign events and not only placements I'd argue Naniwa should have the seed over Huk. At least looking solely at MLG Winter Arena. Both of them got hit out by the same 2 players (the finalists). But Naniwa in my opinion beat more impressing opponents.
Edit: Although of course one could argue that it was not Huk's choice to not meet as potent opponents as Naniwa until he ultimately was hit out by the 2 most potent players in the tournament.
Naniwa definitely for a code S spot since I think he was robbed from it after the "probe rush" incident and also showing amazing play against 2 of the best zergs in the world(beating Nestea and Leenock). Huk also deserves one based on his placement at the winter arena. Grubby and Ret for a code A spot and Stephano and Violet for up and down matches. Also these picks because of the race distribution in GSL is still quite Terran favored otherwise I'd give Demuslim a code A spot aswell instead of maybe Grubby or Ret.
To tell you the truth, I thnk that HuK and Stephano will be given seeds. After all, HuK got 3rd at MLG Winter Arena and Stephano got 2nd at Assembly Winter.
But in terms of people I hope would get them?
Dignitas.BlinG - To put it simply, this guy took down TSL.Polt 2 - 0 in a PvT. Polt simply doesn't lose in TvP yet he got completely raped by stormtoss. I think he should get the seed for that alone. I think that if a British player gets into the GSL, it should be him, not Demuslim.
Quantic.NaNiwa - This guy made a very impressive run through the Losers Bracket, defeating NesTea and Leenock before falling to KongRaeGu. Also, I think it should be an apology for how they fucked up their League Exchange deal a few months ago.
EG.PuMa - To me, PuMa is more gimmicky than amazing, and his gimmicks lie into his decent execution of the 111 build. Despite this, I think he can make a decent splash if EG send him to the SlayerS house to train. He'll have GanZi, Ryung, MMA and the Emperor coaching him.
Polt has just fallen out of Code A, but he lost to Creator who is one of the most promising players. His run definitely impressed me more than Huk's, who faced fairly "easy" opponents in all his rounds but one; based on results alone, I don't think it would be reasonable to seed HuK back to code S. Naniwa seems to be good, but it would be a bit silly to seed back in a player who was kicked out just a few weeks ago. That said, I would never give Code S seeds; just Up&Down ones.
IMO, they should abolish Code S 'sponsor' seeds and and seed #1 and #2 of previous GSL directly into Ro16. I think #1 and #2 of previous GSL have earned the right to have a cushion against an unlucky exit right out of GSL (though it is unlikely with them being #1 and #2) more than Code B players getting a free ticket to Code S. But then again, I think is would be unlikely to be the popular opinion.
On February 27 2012 23:54 WigglingSquid wrote: Polt has just fallen out of Code A, but he lost to Creator who is one of the most promising players. His run definitely impressed me more than Huk's, who faced fairly "easy" opponents in all his rounds but one; based on results alone, I don't think it would be reasonable to seed HuK back to code S. Naniwa seems to be good, but it would be a bit silly to seed back in a player who was kicked out just a few weeks ago. That said, I would never give Code S seeds; just Up&Down ones.
Leenock has said that Creator is basically a Protoss version of himself, so that's quite the statement.
stephano's smart and will stay in europe for the rest of his carrer until september gaining money and fame for when he goes into college full time and retires. He wouldn't risk his legacy on a trip to korea so he could get sniped by a whole korean team.
to throw in the only blooded and proven Code S class foreigner, the only one that has shown he can actually stick around for a few rounds.
Uh, Jinro?
I can't remember when, but Jinro did not want a Code S seed. He wanted to earn his way to Code A & S through the qualifiers. That's probably why he keeps competing in EWM(E-sports Weekly Match). Winners of those EWM tournaments will participate in an offline tournament. Winner of that offline tournament gets a Code A seed. He got to 3rd place in the first weekly.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
After watching both Assembly and MLG this weekend I feel that the most impressive two players of those tournaments (just based on play) were Stephano and most of all Polt. Holy crap did his tvz not look just terrifying? From what I saw in those two tournaments I think Polt played much MUCH better then MKP and Stephano out played all the zergs at MLG. Honestly I think had Polt and Stephano been at MLG we would have had the same finals as at Assembly.
They need to give polt one, because they have a reputation. However, I would refrain from giving HuK one by the fact that he was in GSL so long. I would wait a few seasons to see if he has the ability to re-qualify, and then if he can't give him the seed later. I would imagine it would cause some annoyance in the slayers house if he was given advantages due to him being a foreigner. I would like to see Stephano invited, but I don't think he will due to the fact that he doesn't want to go to Korea. As you said, however, GOM will give him the seed without a second thought should he decide Korea waits for him. I think Naniwa should be given another shot. He proves for two MLGs in a row that he can manhandle top Koreans if given the chance, so if he can take that into the booth, he has a chance at an incredibly successful career.
Annoys the heck out of me that people are saying Naniwa was robbed. I REALLY think there should be a limit to how many seeds a specific player is given. If this was his first time then I'm okay with that otherwise something about seeding him 4 times really annoys he heck out of me.
On February 28 2012 00:11 wklbishop wrote: Annoys the heck out of me that people are saying Naniwa was robbed. I REALLY think there should be a limit to how many seeds a specific player is given. If this was his first time then I'm okay with that otherwise something about seeding him 4 times really annoys he heck out of me.
You know those were MLG seeds that were....earned, and not given, right?
On February 28 2012 00:11 wklbishop wrote: Annoys the heck out of me that people are saying Naniwa was robbed. I REALLY think there should be a limit to how many seeds a specific player is given. If this was his first time then I'm okay with that otherwise something about seeding him 4 times really annoys he heck out of me.
You know those were MLG seeds that were....earned, and not given, right?
At the end of the day, it was at the discretion of GOM.
What else is there to say? Earning a seed through MLG was pretty much, whoever wanted to go b/c most people didn't want to go.
EDIT: Honestly, Naniwa is going to bring a ton of drama either way with people agreeing and disagreeing with the choice. He's something of a trouble case for GOM. Plus... MLG was really a joke as compared to Code A qualifiers and it gave joke matches more often than not.
NaNiwa & Stephano. Funny thing: both NaNiwa and HuK lost only to MKP and DRG. The difference in position is sheer luck. HuK even had a bit easier run in the tournament. Compare Minigun, Socke, Ret and Oz with Grubby, Sheth, Nestea and Leenock.
On February 28 2012 00:11 wklbishop wrote: Annoys the heck out of me that people are saying Naniwa was robbed. I REALLY think there should be a limit to how many seeds a specific player is given. If this was his first time then I'm okay with that otherwise something about seeding him 4 times really annoys he heck out of me.
You know those were MLG seeds that were....earned, and not given, right?
At the end of the day, it was at the discretion of GOM.
What else is there to say? Earning a seed through MLG was pretty much, whoever wanted to go b/c most people didn't want to go.
That may be true for others. Naniwa was among the 3 best foreigners at Raleigh, Columbus and Anaheim. (not counting Huk, who was in Code S) He didnt need anyone to pass on a spot. Stop depreciating his achievements.
On February 28 2012 00:35 JoeAWESOME wrote: I feel that Ret would be awesome to see in the GSL!
When ret plays his best, he surely can survive a few rounds in Code S. The problem is his consistency. Sometimes he just gets rolled in the first round. The only consistent (at high lvl at least) is Stephano.
I think these direct Code S seeds should altogether be abolished. I do not mind Code A seeds, though.
Whoever they choose, it will be a business decision for the GSL, and I think our collective acceptance of business decisions has grew considerably this weekend. It looks like MLG's paid off. Your move, GSL.
Polt should get one for sure then the other one is up for grabs between: Ret, Huk, Naniwa and Stephano(If he even wants to go) I would like to see Ret though, I think he got decent chanses. Hope Foreigners get some code A seeds, makes it much funnier to watch.
I don't agree that Polt is in this discussion. Has ASUS been working with GOM in terms of seeding at all? Polt isn't a foreigner and do not have the burden of going to another country there's no reason for him to get special consideration without winning a promised seed in a MLG. If he wants Code S, he can compete for it without making a huge sacrifice.
I see a lot of posts about Stephano joining GSL. Well, everyone knows that Stephano playing SC2 for money not for fame and since he has zero chances to get into GSL top2 I think he will not accept invite for code S even if he will get it.
On February 28 2012 00:56 Spec wrote: I don't agree that Polt is in this discussion. Has ASUS been working with GOM in terms of seeding at all? Polt isn't a foreigner and do not have the burden of going to another country there's no reason for him to get special consideration without winning a promised seed in a MLG. If he wants Code S, he can compete for it without making a huge sacrifice.
You don't get it. There is no more agreement between MLG and GOM, because GOM said they would look at all major foreign tournaments, and Assembly is one of them. Chae also explained that these "international" seeds were not the property of foreigners and could go to a korean having performed well in a foreigner tournament. Guess what? Polt looks like the perfect fit to the definition of this seed by Mr. Chae, so you really don't have a point.
On February 28 2012 01:01 agfoxGnom wrote: I see a lot of posts about Stephano joining GSL. Well, everyone knows that Stephano playing SC2 for money not for fame and since he has zero chances to get into GSL top2 I think he will not accept invite for code S even if he will get it.
zero chances? It wouldn't be as ez money as in foreign tournaments, but he would have a good chance, he is definitely Code S level, and code S is stacked, anyone can go far.
On February 28 2012 00:43 Proseat wrote: I think these direct Code S seeds should altogether be abolished. I do not mind Code A seeds, though.
Why? The current system is perfect. If you somehow can't keep with the Code S/A level players, you're gone in one season.
I agree that these should be Code A spots. Code S should be elite of the elite. Direct Wild Card just introduces a bit of "foreign folklore" and - unfortunately - easy wins for other players which make the whole Code S tournament uneven (I guess everybody would be happy to play against IdrA in the most recent Code S).
On February 27 2012 20:18 RPR_Tempest wrote: What about PuMa?
Won NASL 1 and 2, won an IEM and came 2nd at DreamHack..
Oh WOW, how can you actually even consider NASL 2? For NASL 1 it's way too far in the past to be considered for a seed at the moment and the other results are not overwhelming compared to other possible players.
I don't think Stephano will go to GSL, or if he does it would be for a single season if he still plans to focus on studies starting in september of this year. Plus I don't think he can overcome the best terrans in code S ( he seems godlike against everything but korean terrans). I think Polt is like in the bottom half of the top 10 terrans, and still he managed to beat Stephano multiple times even though he was BEHIND in the games at multiple times. So unless he receives a good salary it would be a way too risky move for Stephano to go to GSL compared to "foreigner" tournaments.
On February 28 2012 00:43 Proseat wrote: I think these direct Code S seeds should altogether be abolished. I do not mind Code A seeds, though.
Why? The current system is perfect. If you somehow can't keep with the Code S/A level players, you're gone in one season.
I agree that these should be Code A spots. Code S should be elite of the elite. Direct Wild Card just introduces a bit of "foreign folklore" and - unfortunately - easy wins for other players which make the whole Code S tournament uneven (I guess everybody would be happy to play against IdrA in the most recent Code S).
But in IdrA's case, it wasn't that he as a poor (for lack of a better word) foreign candidate for Code S, it's that he's just playing terribly at the moment. If you had someone on the level of NaNiwa, HuK, or Stephano, they would have most likely have made it through to at least the round of 16.
I mean, IdrA's performance this weekend was one of his low points, only managing to take one game off of Oz. Using him as a benchmark of how foreigners would do in Korea at the moment isn't exactly an accurate representation to the rest of the scene.
On February 28 2012 01:13 SolarXPn wrote: Polt is really good. I think he deserves Code S
Completely agree with this. Watching Polt at Assembly made me a huge fan of the guy. He showcased his level of play so well with his decision making and control,
Forgot about Dimaga? Losing IEM Kiev to the best TvZ player and getting 2nd is definitely an achievement, and getting top 8 at Homestory Cup and losing to another stellar PvZ player in JYP is no shame either.
On February 28 2012 01:01 agfoxGnom wrote: I see a lot of posts about Stephano joining GSL. Well, everyone knows that Stephano playing SC2 for money not for fame and since he has zero chances to get into GSL top2 I think he will not accept invite for code S even if he will get it.
He can just leave the minute he loses. They wouldn't be happy about it, but if he's going to stop playing, then it really shouldn't bother him.
As much as I love Stephano and I think he's one of the most deserving foreigners to try their luck in Code S - I actually think he's right for refusing it. He's not the guy to half-ass stuff. He does it if he does it, otherwise he doesn't do it. With Stephano there's no try.
But Code S takes serious time investment, and Stephano is still planning on leaving the scene relatively soon. So it's not worth it for him. If he goes, he would have to spend some months in Korea flowing between Code S and Code A, before he's even capable of reaping any serious rewards. This is better suited for Huk and Naniwa who are topmost driven by the honor they get, and only second-most driven by the rewards they get. Stephano is simply not in the same position with his life and attitude towards the scene. It's unfortunate, because one can bet he has what it takes to make it, but it just won't happen in this life.
Anyway, we are all theorizing GOM's choice here, but I'm still not entirely sure if they even allow Koreans for these 2 seeds or not; or are at least foreigners given some priority - if say some foreigner and Korean perform at about the same level. I guess we'll see with the next couple of season's picks how it works exactly. I'd love Mr. Chae to clarify a little bit though.
If it's foreigners-only, I'd definitely add Dimaga to the list of recommended invites based on recent international performances, as well as Ret.
As much as I dislike stephano at times, I think he would be great in GSL. There would be the chance that he could stick around for a few rounds and there is that omnipresent concern of whether or not he's going to do or say something offensive...which is entertaining.
HuK and Polt would be the two that I would expect to get the bump, though.
On February 27 2012 19:50 Leeoku wrote: i would love to see stephano in gsl... considering also he is limiting his sc2 career for like another year?
he's been affirming clearly (and for a long time now) that he's retiring next year... however during one of his many interviews at assembly, he seemed less affirmative about it. he said he might reconsider it.
On February 28 2012 01:33 Havik_ wrote: I want to see Stephano. Its about damn time he headed to Korea to prove how good he really is. If I had to pick two though, I'd say Polt and Stephano.
note...he's been to korea. he fought in the blizz cup and went 2-2, didn't make it bc of tie breaker.
I think Polt is a given, after that it's a dead race between Huk, Naniwa and Stephano with Stephano probably being their choice if he accepts which I think he won't.
Not too sure if they'll seed Huk right back in to code S right after he went out.
I don't think NaNiwa should get a Code S seed, and it's not to do with his performance at MLG. Being a pretty big NaNi fan and all it would hurt me too much to see him go into Code S and promptly be cheesed or all-ined a few times sending him spiralling to Code A. Code S is just too preparation heavy where Koreans would prepare the sickest all-ins against his FFE / Nexus-First builds. Had the GSL been more about base play through endurance heavy matches without much preparation time I would say "yeah let him go" but the sad truth is that he'll probably get torn apart by cheese
On February 28 2012 01:37 Legace wrote: I think Polt is a given, after that it's a dead race between Huk, Naniwa and Stephano with Stephano probably being their choice if he accepts which I think he won't.
Not too sure if they'll seed Huk right back in to code S right after he went out.
they did for MVP and MC, which both came back and whooped asses when they were seeded back
On February 27 2012 19:38 Inertia_EU wrote: "Stephano: It's his the second he asks for it, so it's all contingent on his will to go to Korea." One can only hope he decides to, he's a fantastic player and personality. But I reckon it'll be HuK and a korean.
This line is funny but so true. And personally I must admit I would like to see him in GSL more then any other foreigner. Him, Huk and Naniwa are ATM best foreigners.
I'd sort of rather Naniwa was given a Code A spot so he could fight his way up to Code S. It's pretty clear that it's within his abilities. But put him straight in Code S and he could just get cheesed out which would fuel the fires of the Naniwa Isn't Even Good Brigade.
On February 28 2012 01:33 Havik_ wrote: And they BS'ed Naniwa out of his seed, so he should get back in there too.
Also this. Even MLG were like 'wut' when Gom said that oh, actually the exchange program doesn't work like that, we can just give Code S seeds to whoever we want and Naniwa hasn't earned one through our system, this was all made quite clear a little while ago, the plans were on display in Gom headquarters, in the display department/cellar, you'll need a torch because the lights are out, and so are the stairs actually, but the plans are displayed there, in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. + Show Spoiler +
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy reference
Plus NaNiwa and Nestea had their rematch, it's all cool now, the punishment was too severe in the first place imo...I think he deserves it.
Its gotta be Naniwa. I can see it no other way. He's too good. WHile huk, good, he did not go through the gauntlet of players and kick some serious butt. I still feel like Naniwa deserves his Code s shine.
On February 28 2012 01:37 Legace wrote: I think Polt is a given, after that it's a dead race between Huk, Naniwa and Stephano with Stephano probably being their choice if he accepts which I think he won't.
Not too sure if they'll seed Huk right back in to code S right after he went out.
they did for MVP and MC, which both came back and whooped asses when they were seeded back
MVP has never been given anything, MVP just takes stuff from other nerds hands. His mlg win did not give him any seed, he just went there for the pleasure, and eventually to steal some white dudes money ! He dropped from code S once but requalified through code A + up&down.
On February 27 2012 23:53 Clbull wrote: To tell you the truth, I thnk that HuK and Stephano will be given seeds. After all, HuK got 3rd at MLG Winter Arena and Stephano got 2nd at Assembly Winter.
But in terms of people I hope would get them?
Dignitas.BlinG - To put it simply, this guy took down TSL.Polt 2 - 0 in a PvT. Polt simply doesn't lose in TvP yet he got completely raped by stormtoss. I think he should get the seed for that alone. I think that if a British player gets into the GSL, it should be him, not Demuslim.
Quantic.NaNiwa - This guy made a very impressive run through the Losers Bracket, defeating NesTea and Leenock before falling to KongRaeGu. Also, I think it should be an apology for how they fucked up their League Exchange deal a few months ago.
EG.PuMa - To me, PuMa is more gimmicky than amazing, and his gimmicks lie into his decent execution of the 111 build. Despite this, I think he can make a decent splash if EG send him to the SlayerS house to train. He'll have GanZi, Ryung, MMA and the Emperor coaching him.
3rd at MLG doesn't mean much when he lost to the exact same people Naniwa did.
Of the entire article, Stephano was the only person who made sense seeding into Code S. The other place should go to a korean. no foreigner is worthy of that status yet. Presumably someone like NaDa, who has made SC2 his fulltime job from what I know. Definitely NOT huk/naniwa.
Code S shouldn't be something that players with the best momentums/ streaks should be able to achieve. You need to be a consistent top player to be part of the group that calls itself the world's best sc2 players.
Nobody. I don't understand why people whould have a code S spot for another tournament. If they want to perform GSL, they can just go via the qualifiers.
On February 27 2012 23:53 Clbull wrote: To tell you the truth, I thnk that HuK and Stephano will be given seeds. After all, HuK got 3rd at MLG Winter Arena and Stephano got 2nd at Assembly Winter.
But in terms of people I hope would get them?
Dignitas.BlinG - To put it simply, this guy took down TSL.Polt 2 - 0 in a PvT. Polt simply doesn't lose in TvP yet he got completely raped by stormtoss. I think he should get the seed for that alone. I think that if a British player gets into the GSL, it should be him, not Demuslim.
Quantic.NaNiwa - This guy made a very impressive run through the Losers Bracket, defeating NesTea and Leenock before falling to KongRaeGu. Also, I think it should be an apology for how they fucked up their League Exchange deal a few months ago.
EG.PuMa - To me, PuMa is more gimmicky than amazing, and his gimmicks lie into his decent execution of the 111 build. Despite this, I think he can make a decent splash if EG send him to the SlayerS house to train. He'll have GanZi, Ryung, MMA and the Emperor coaching him.
Interesting, the 2nd from Assembly gets the seed while the first from Assembly goes away empty-handed? What a strange world you live in...
P.S.: anybody remember the raffle from Take, where the first prize was a Döner and the second a HD Plasma TV?
Well nobody is astonished when a complete tournament is made out of invites ( with a lot of invited koreans ). There are even some which are half invites and half qualifiers, how much more unfair does that sound?
Why would you be bothered by TWO invite spots in code S? Everyone was ok when a seed was given according to result from A SINGLE tournament ( MLG), but now they consider ALL TOURNAMENTS instead of just one and people say it's unfair, WTF did I miss in that thought process??!! O_o
Do not invite anyone directly to code S, If you must invite someone then place them in code A and let them work to get there like everyone else. Foreigns results in 2011 shows us that they doesnt deserve invites.
On February 27 2012 23:53 Clbull wrote: To tell you the truth, I thnk that HuK and Stephano will be given seeds. After all, HuK got 3rd at MLG Winter Arena and Stephano got 2nd at Assembly Winter.
But in terms of people I hope would get them?
Dignitas.BlinG - To put it simply, this guy took down TSL.Polt 2 - 0 in a PvT. Polt simply doesn't lose in TvP yet he got completely raped by stormtoss. I think he should get the seed for that alone. I think that if a British player gets into the GSL, it should be him, not Demuslim.
Quantic.NaNiwa - This guy made a very impressive run through the Losers Bracket, defeating NesTea and Leenock before falling to KongRaeGu. Also, I think it should be an apology for how they fucked up their League Exchange deal a few months ago.
EG.PuMa - To me, PuMa is more gimmicky than amazing, and his gimmicks lie into his decent execution of the 111 build. Despite this, I think he can make a decent splash if EG send him to the SlayerS house to train. He'll have GanZi, Ryung, MMA and the Emperor coaching him.
3rd at MLG doesn't mean much when he lost to the exact same people Naniwa did.
Especially considering HuK's bracket... I'm personally not much for NaNiwa, but he had way tougher opponents than HuK, and I'm pretty sure that he also put up a better fight against MKP & DRG despite them 2-0'ing him. There were a lot of ppl in the tournament who could've been put in HuK's bracket and gotten to 3rd place.
On February 28 2012 02:10 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: Well nobody is astonished when a complete tournament is made out of invites ( with a lot of invited koreans ). There are even some which are half invites and half qualifiers, how much more unfair does that sound?
Why would you be bothered by TWO invite spots in code S? Everyone was ok when a seed was given according to result from A SINGLE tournament ( MLG), but now they consider ALL TOURNAMENTS instead of just one and people say it's unfair, WTF did I miss in that thought process??!! O_o
GSL is an actual competition, you know, it's a proper starcraft tournament. all those other tournaments are just fancy 3-day fun fairs, in which the competition is a farce, and everyone's in it for the money.
Although I hate to admit, I think Terran is a bit less desirable to receive the code s seed seeing as Terran is having the most success as of now, I believe thats partly why it was idra and sen... I think Violet deserves a seed (though I doubt he would receive it) and Polt because people need to realize that sometimes the GSL has undeserving wins and that Polt in general is an outstanding player that for one doesnt spam apm and makes excellent decisions (I was amazed while I watched his stream). Polt and Violet deserve it, but I believe at least 1 foreigner is going to end up receiving it for the publicity and the involvement of the international scene.
On February 28 2012 01:21 figq wrote: As much as I love Stephano and I think he's one of the most deserving foreigners to try their luck in Code S - I actually think he's right for refusing it. He's not the guy to half-ass stuff. He does it if he does it, otherwise he doesn't do it. With Stephano there's no try.
But Code S takes serious time investment, and Stephano is still planning on leaving the scene relatively soon. So it's not worth it for him. If he goes, he would have to spend some months in Korea flowing between Code S and Code A, before he's even capable of reaping any serious rewards. This is better suited for Huk and Naniwa who are topmost driven by the honor they get, and only second-most driven by the rewards they get. Stephano is simply not in the same position with his life and attitude towards the scene. It's unfortunate, because one can bet he has what it takes to make it, but it just won't happen in this life.
Anyway, we are all theorizing GOM's choice here, but I'm still not entirely sure if they even allow Koreans for these 2 seeds or not; or are at least foreigners given some priority - if say some foreigner and Korean perform at about the same level. I guess we'll see with the next couple of season's picks how it works exactly. I'd love Mr. Chae to clarify a little bit though.
If it's foreigners-only, I'd definitely add Dimaga to the list of recommended invites based on recent international performances, as well as Ret.
Yea, pretty much sums up what I have to say. Stephano would be my top choice for zerg foreigners. Can't blame the guy for wanting a stable career. Being an SC2 pro is anything but that. Even if you think you could top the charts, there is still the problem of, 'how long is this going to last'. How long is SC2 going to be around? The logical choice is to choose something with a bit more backing.
I was thinking the same thing. A lot of people are mentioning Koreans playing on foreign teams as foreigners.
On February 27 2012 19:50 Leeoku wrote: i would love to see stephano in gsl... considering also he is limiting his sc2 career for like another year?
he's been affirming clearly (and for a long time now) that he's retiring next year... however during one of his many interviews at assembly, he seemed less affirmative about it. he said he might reconsider it.
just throwing you a bone out there :D
Yeah, I think there was something about him continuing if he could continue to pile in cash like this heh. But if he does decide to end his SC2 career this year, it would be nice if he went there to make his final stand.
I buy my season ticket for the foreigners. Polt is good for sure and I hope he gets his invite, but I am not interested in watching another Korean Terran in Code S. That said, I would not want to miss Stephano, Huk or Ret playing.
I can, however, miss Naniwa playing. He does not excite me like the other three that I mentioned and never really has. Personal opinion I guess, he just doesn't give me any reason to root for him. I pull for Stephano because I'm Zerg and what hes done since bursting into the scene and I pull for Huk because I live near his Canadian hometown
He can beat Code S level players in foreign tournaments, yet gets murdered by lowly Code A level players in GSL. Makes me sad, because I know hes good, he just hits a mental block in Korea it seems.
If Stephano/Huk get in I'm buying a ticket, otherwise I can do without frankly. I'm one of those guys that only watch the GSL for foreigners' sake and I do believe there are many more that would do the same. I'm tired of seeing korean-on-korean action.
Obviously HuK + NaNiwa would be the smart business decision. If they just seed another korean its as if they wasted those slots. Competition wise it would be the best but they would see no monetary benefit. But i doubt that their Korean pride will allow them to seed Naniwa and on the other hand i dont think HuK should accept his. He just dropped out of code A and it would damage him in the eyes of other korean pros to accept such seed. And i think HuK cares about that deeply.
On February 28 2012 02:18 Al Bundy wrote: GSL is an actual competition, you know, it's a proper starcraft tournament. all those other tournaments are just fancy 3-day fun fairs, in which the competition is a farce, and everyone's in it for the money.
I kind of agree with you but how GSL seeding system is unfair? They don't invite anyone they want based on no criteria at all. They invite non already code S top finishers in internationnal events. Unlike most tournaments which invite whoever is the most hyped regardless of results ( aka Bomber or DRG before they acually got results ). It's just great to possibly bring in the competition players that might have not even tried to come to korea otherwise. I mean, what is there here to loose? Credibility? It's ONLY TWO SLOTS, two slots for players who achieved good results, not for some random GMs that would be here because friends and family voted for them on a poll somewhere on the net. If the two invites are taken down, even if it is with ease, well it won't impact the tournament that much since the Ro32 step consists in group play. But if they do well and go far that would mean they are indeed S class and that the seeding system is justified ( like it appeared to be with MC, DRG or MMA ) since it can actually bring back to code S people who actually belong there (since they can compete with and take games off of code S players).
So those two spots are just enough so that they don't have such an influence on Ro32 if the chosen players are "bad", but also act as good way to have a code S level players income with more variety in their origins.
Let's take an exemple for those who follow football ( and by that I mean soccer for you north american eretics ! xD). The best league in football is the Champions League. To qualify for that league teams must be top finishers (from 1st to 3rd according to the each country league level) in the nationnal league of their own country. Therefore in the end you can end up with groups in the Champions League in which you have Barcelona + Manchester United + Real Madrid + Some crappy french team ( i'm french and compared to the very top european teams our best teams are crappy we have to admit xD).
Even journalists would say "that's the group of death + a french team which is stuck in between". But still it's the greatest football competition on earth because it happens to showcase the best of everywhere in Europe. So even if french teams are a bit lame well their presence contributes to the greatness of the event because they still might cause some upset and make the whole thing even more exciting.
I just don't think people are ready to consider video games as a so said "e-SPORT" when I read so many comments against those seeds Oo
Please forgive me for my english if it is not understandable xD
On February 28 2012 02:40 Cloud9157 wrote: Naniwa just needs to perform well in Korea.
He can beat Code S level players in foreign tournaments, yet gets murdered by lowly Code A level players in GSL. Makes me sad, because I know hes good, he just hits a mental block in Korea it seems.
He drew 3 Zergs, at times when PvZ was by far his worst matchup. Its a bit early to think of a "mental block".
On February 28 2012 02:05 Al Bundy wrote: Stephano "GomTV might really have to bribe him to make this worth his while."
Yeah, sure... Dude doesn't want to compete with the best, to me that means that he's not really dedicated to this esport.
Stephano has already said he isn't dedicated to SC2, in fact he plans to stop playing it in a few years to get a real job. That's why he only plays a few hours a day, because this isn't his life dream. You have to respect that!
On February 28 2012 02:18 Al Bundy wrote: GSL is an actual competition, you know, it's a proper starcraft tournament. all those other tournaments are just fancy 3-day fun fairs, in which the competition is a farce, and everyone's in it for the money.
I kind of agree with you but how GSL seeding system is unfair? They don't invite anyone they want based on no criteria at all. They invite non already code S top finishers in internationnal events. Unlike most tournaments which invite whoever is the most hyped regardless of results ( aka Bomber or DRG before they acually got results ). It's just great to possibly bring in the competition players that might have not even tried to come to korea otherwise. I mean, what is there here to loose? Credibility? It's ONLY TWO SLOTS, two slots for players who achieved good results, not for some random GMs that would be here because friends and family voted for them on a poll somewhere on the net. If the two invites are taken down, even if it is with ease, well it won't impact the tournament that much since the Ro32 step consists in group play. But if they do well and go far that would mean they are indeed S class and that the seeding system is justified ( like it appeared to be with MC, DRG or MMA ) since it can actually bring back to code S people who actually belong there (since they can compete with and take games off of code S players).
So those two spots are just enough so that they don't have such an influence on Ro32 if the chosen players are "bad", but also act as good way to have a code S level players income with more variety in their origins.
Let's take an exemple for those who follow football ( and by that I mean soccer for you north american eretics ! xD). The best league in football is the Champions League. To qualify for that league teams must be top finishers (from 1st to 3rd according to the each country league level) in the nationnal league of their own country. Therefore in the end you can end up with groups in the Champions League in which you have Barcelona + Manchester United + Real Madrid + Some crappy french team ( i'm french and compared to the very top european teams our best teams are crappy we have to admit xD).
Even journalists would say "that's the group of death + a french team which is stuck in between". But still it's the greatest football competition on earth because it happens to showcase the best of everywhere in Europe. So even if french teams are a bit lame well their presence contributes to the greatness of the event because they still might cause some upset and make the whole thing even more exciting.
I just don't think people are ready to consider video games as a so said "e-SPORT" when I read so many comments against those seeds Oo
Please forgive me for my english if it is not understandable xD
Fair enough, I agree that it's only two slots, and doesn't have a big influence on the outcome of the tournament. Nonetheless, the lack of consistency of the contenders mentionned in the OP is an issue. There is no point awarding seeds to people who will certainly choke in the first or second round. We've seen it before. As an esports enthusiast my goal is to witness only the highest level of play.
On February 28 2012 02:05 Al Bundy wrote: Stephano "GomTV might really have to bribe him to make this worth his while."
Yeah, sure... Dude doesn't want to compete with the best, to me that means that he's not really dedicated to this esport.
Stephano has already said he isn't dedicated to SC2, in fact he plans to stop playing it in a few years to get a real job. That's why he only plays a few hours a day, because this isn't his life dream. You have to respect that!
Well thanks for the information, wow I can't believe he manages to destroy people left and right despite that
edit; sorry for the double post, I should have edited the first one
On February 28 2012 00:43 Proseat wrote: I think these direct Code S seeds should altogether be abolished. I do not mind Code A seeds, though.
Why? The current system is perfect. If you somehow can't keep with the Code S/A level players, you're gone in one season.
I agree that these should be Code A spots. Code S should be elite of the elite. Direct Wild Card just introduces a bit of "foreign folklore" and - unfortunately - easy wins for other players which make the whole Code S tournament uneven (I guess everybody would be happy to play against IdrA in the most recent Code S).
But in IdrA's case, it wasn't that he as a poor (for lack of a better word) foreign candidate for Code S, it's that he's just playing terribly at the moment. If you had someone on the level of NaNiwa, HuK, or Stephano, they would have most likely have made it through to at least the round of 16.
There were exactly 3 players succesful - to a degree - in GSL 1) Jinro, obviously 2) IdrA both of these accomplishments where in the early GSLs.
3) HuK who wasn't that good at the start and gradually improved up to GSL Code S Top8.
My point is that based on statistics foreigner - with high probability - would be easy money in elite Code S GSL tournament. It is possible that a foreigner will suddenly shake GSL thanks to direct Code S seed. It is highly unlikely at the time, though.
On February 28 2012 02:05 Al Bundy wrote: Stephano "GomTV might really have to bribe him to make this worth his while."
Yeah, sure... Dude doesn't want to compete with the best, to me that means that he's not really dedicated to this esport.
Stephano has already said he isn't dedicated to SC2, in fact he plans to stop playing it in a few years to get a real job. That's why he only plays a few hours a day, because this isn't his life dream. You have to respect that!
I'm pretty sure he practices more than "a few" hours per day. I thought that was just some bullshit his fanboys made up so that they could say he could be the best in the world. Isn't he even in the Millenium teamhouse to practice?
On February 28 2012 02:05 Al Bundy wrote: Stephano "GomTV might really have to bribe him to make this worth his while."
Yeah, sure... Dude doesn't want to compete with the best, to me that means that he's not really dedicated to this esport.
Stephano has already said he isn't dedicated to SC2, in fact he plans to stop playing it in a few years to get a real job. That's why he only plays a few hours a day, because this isn't his life dream. You have to respect that!
I'm pretty sure he practices more than "a few" hours per day. I thought that was just some bullshit his fanboys made up so that they could say he could be the best in the world. Isn't he even in the Millenium teamhouse to practice?
This "few hours a day" was like 7-8 months ago before his school year was over. After that he took a year off to play sc2 full time and earn as much money as he could so he wouldn't have to think about money when he starts med school and drop sc2 the next semester.
"top eight MLG New York don't look very good on paper"
Indeed it doesn't, but if you look at the players he lost to, the winner and the runner up of the event, Naniwa could just as well has placed 3rd. I'm not saying he would've had he had another bracket, but placement doesn't tell the whole story.
Polt certainly deserves a seed though. He had a great showing at RoG and is most certainly code S class.
Huk's bracket in this MLG was insanely lucky.. I don't think he deserves the seed atm.
His bracket to 3rd place was an absolute joke compared to anyone else in the top 8. He beat 3 foreigners and then of course, a PvP coinflip for his one Korean.
Ganzi beat MC and MVP and some foreigners. Naniwa beat Grubby, Sheth, Nestea and Leenock. They took 7th and 8th to Huks 3rd lol. I feel like Huk wouldn't have even been top 8 in literally any other bracket, his play during the tournament did not even look very impressive, lots of cheese and DTs summed it up. MKP and DRG stomped him fairly easily.
Naniwa, Polt, MKP, Violet and Stephano (doubt he'd take it though) are all more deserving of the seed based on recent play. Smartest move would probably be to give one to Naniwa, just because it would make for the best story line, getting his seed taken away and then Gom forgiving him and giving him a new chance to prove himself. I'm sure a lot of people would tune in to watch that.
Would also love to see Kas, Nerchio and Demuslim in the GSL one day, whether code A or code S. I'm fine with some foreigners getting seeds even if they aren't quite as good as Koreans, it brings in more viewers and adds more excitement and international interest to the tournament. However, they should only get one chance as a code S seed and if they fail miserably and drop straight to code b from code s, like Idra did, they shouldn't just get another seed over other foreigners.
On February 27 2012 20:25 Faggatron wrote: Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
Played incredibly? Proxy 2 gate to beat Nestea? truly incredible.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
Wait, what? Didn't Polt beat Stephano in the finals of Assembly? If that is true then how is Stephano deserving of it but not Polt?
Of the players listed, I think that Polt and MarineKing are going to get it. If MKP advances to Code S anyways, Virus wouldn't be that bad of a choice. He has proven he is quite good recently.
i think the Only player WhOdeserve a Code S spot are NaNiwaPolt and Violet, HuK doesn't deserve it, neither IdrA and Stephano isn't willing to go back to Korea.
Naniwa to code S and SaSe to code A! Naniwa had better run at MLG. All Huk did is beat 3 foreigners and win one PvP with a korean. And they both lost to MKP and DRG.
Why are people whining about how Naniwa and HuK win their games? When thousands of dollars are on the line for your own salary and success....who cares? People whine because they have never been in a booth before and have never had to work for their own salary. You do what you have to do to win money to survive. Stop whining. But to be honest they should stop giving out Code S seeds and only give out Code A seeds. The foreigner skill level is still so much below the Korean skill level that Code S is out of reach for the foreigner pool of pros. It's obvious that if anyone should have to take the spot, Stephano deserves the spot at the moment but if he doesn't take it then they should just get rid of the spots and let two more Up-and-down candidates through.
On February 28 2012 04:22 seoul_kiM wrote: Why are people whining about how Naniwa and HuK win their games? When thousands of dollars are on the line for your own salary and success....who cares? People whine because they have never been in a booth before and have never had to work for their own salary. You do what you have to do to win money to survive. Stop whining. But to be honest they should stop giving out Code S seeds and only give out Code A seeds. The foreigner skill level is still so much below the Korean skill level that Code S is out of reach for the foreigner pool of pros. It's obvious that if anyone should have to take the spot, Stephano deserves the spot at the moment but if he doesn't take it then they should just get rid of the spots and let two more Up-and-down candidates through.
We need people who are willing to do what it takes to win getting shots at code S.
Stephano is the only one that really deserves it, but he probably doesn't want it. Naniwa would be a good pick, but he has already burned so many chances that it would make the 'system' seem stupid. The rest should be forced to qualify like everyone else. I'd rather they scrap the seeds than give them to undeserving players.
So many great foreigners. Its too bad alot of them seem hesitant to go over there, I really think we could have a Foriegn Champ in one of these players.
They shouldn't give any seeds to the foreigners, especially huk or idra they both fell out of code s and a on their own account. It would set a terrible example if Gom would rescue every "hyped" foreigners who falls to code B with a code S seed, every time.
Invite Polt and Violet they both deserve it, i rather watch 2 deserving Korean players than the only 2 guys who did NOTHING to deserve it except being white.
Tbh, I think that spots should be given to players who are at least been month in KR. I mean its so hard to go from Europe and considering all changes (culture, weather, gameplay, KR Practice) and perform well, I think foreingers need some adjustments and giving spot to player like Demuslim ( who never been to KR) , i think he will fail 0-2 , unless he wont get some time in KR practice house.
On February 27 2012 20:25 Faggatron wrote: Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
Played incredibly? Proxy 2 gate to beat Nestea? truly incredible.
Did you see game 2? Was a response to that. People love to thrown in individual games without any of the context just to shit on players.
As for the seeds, I don't think they should be giving seeds for Code S so I'll abstain.
On February 27 2012 22:11 GuitarBizarre wrote: The whole article just comes off as some sort of vague, baseless whine about Gomtv losing "integrity" without ever clarifying what classes as having integrity in the first place. Terrible article really. There was no explicit statement made that the seeds were meant to be rigid or results based anyway, and why should they be?
On February 27 2012 20:25 Faggatron wrote: Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
Played incredibly? Proxy 2 gate to beat Nestea? truly incredible.
Did you see game 2? Was a response to that. People love to thrown in individual games without any of the context just to shit on players.
As for the seeds, I don't think they should be giving seeds for Code S so I'll abstain.
Honestly naniwa was dead but nestea pulled drones which actually put him far behind.
On February 27 2012 20:25 Faggatron wrote: Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
Played incredibly? Proxy 2 gate to beat Nestea? truly incredible.
That was ONE match, and it followed up TWO cheeses in a row from Nestea. That's besides the fact that Naniwa NEVER cheeses, which made his 2gate that more exciting to watch, especially since Nestea tried to cheese him out the prior two matches. Did you even watch Naniwa's matches? He actually did play incredibly the whole tournament, and if he wasn't such a stubborn and predictable player he wouldn't have gotten abused by DRG(I dont blame DRG one bit). Besides the fact that he had to play arguably the 3 best Zergs in the world, IN A ROW. Come on, I know there are lots of Naniwa haters but he played very well.
Please, no Polt D: we only finally got rid of him D:
Polt-specific feelings aside, I think that someone who just got eliminated from code A shouldn't be eligible for a code S seed at least for the immediately following tournament. If Polt continues to slay European nerds then by all means, invite him in May or something. But not after he just got kicked out. Same goes for Huk. FTR, I was also against Naniwa receiving three invites in a row.
Also I would argue that MLG should weigh heavier than Assembly. The star power of Assembly simply doesn't compare.
Huk should definitely not be in code s. If any foreigner should be in code s it would be naniwa or stephano. Naniwa he has consistent winnings against some of the best players in the world. Huk having the easiest path in mlg winter was a big part of his 3rd place. You could see how once he started to face world class players he completely fell apart.
On February 28 2012 05:08 gedatsu wrote: Please, no Polt D: we only finally got rid of him D:
Polt-specific feelings aside, I think that someone who just got eliminated from code A shouldn't be eligible for a code S seed at least for the immediately following tournament. If Polt continues to slay European nerds then by all means, invite him in May or something. But not after he just got kicked out. Same goes for Huk. FTR, I was also against Naniwa receiving three invites in a row.
Also I would argue that MLG should weigh heavier than Assembly. The star power of Assembly simply doesn't compare.
Get Naniwa, in my opinion. Huk is also fine, but I'd prefer Naniwa. I kind of feel that his run in Winter Arena was just as, if not more impressive than, Huks, and that he has matured significantly since Blizzard Cup. Given the chance, he would play well and behave in Code S.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
And what reason would that be? Would it be different from one why Naniwa or Huk are not in Code S?
And on topic "WHO SHOULD BE IN CODE S?" Does it matter? Mr. Chae knows who will actually be in CODE S and we will know soon enough.
On February 28 2012 05:33 blizzind wrote: Huk should definitely not be in code s. If any foreigner should be in code s it would be naniwa or stephano. Naniwa he has consistent winnings against some of the best players in the world. Huk having the easiest path in mlg winter was a big part of his 3rd place. You could see how once he started to face world class players he completely fell apart.
he beat OZ, One of the best PVP toss in the world.
People bitch about his run, because it was mostly PVP.
I find it funny, because stephano played in a tourny with ALOT weaker players, played like 80% ZvP (HIS BEST MU). and placed 1 spot higher than huk, yet he is herald as the next coming of christ.
To be honest, stephano is one of the best outside of korea, but he isnt "THE BEST BY FAR" as so many like to pretend.
I think Nani, huk, and stephano would be amazing additions to gsl. Even if polt deserves it more than all three.
"top eight MLG New York don't look very good on paper"
It might not look good on paper but i don't feel like it resembles his actual performance.
He had some pretty hard opponents. He met 4 koreans (MKP, NesTea, Leenock, DRG) and he beat two of those and lost to the other two.
So i wouldn't actually look at his placement in this tournament because he had a pretty tough run. I would rather look at his performance, the matches that he played and the players that he beat.
If he had gotten an easier bracket im sure he would atleast be top3. Then it would look good on paper. But im glad he didn't get the easy road because i want to see him win over really good players and he did that.
After watching the same handful of players (both Korean and foreigner) be given chances and then be beaten out of Code S and Code A, offering people like Naniwa, IdrA and HuK seeds just feels like propping them up, and setting the stage for more disappointing and lackluster matches. I'm tired of seeing the same people play "musical seeds" at every tournament event. I'd rather see more emphasis put back on the merit of the players, rather than their popularity.
Also, foreigner players have needed to step up their game for a long while now. On the right day, some of them can give Korean players a run for their money, but there's no consistency, and it's frustrating to watch.
On February 28 2012 05:08 gedatsu wrote: Please, no Polt D: we only finally got rid of him D:
Polt-specific feelings aside, I think that someone who just got eliminated from code A shouldn't be eligible for a code S seed at least for the immediately following tournament. If Polt continues to slay European nerds then by all means, invite him in May or something. But not after he just got kicked out. Same goes for Huk. FTR, I was also against Naniwa receiving three invites in a row.
Also I would argue that MLG should weigh heavier than Assembly. The star power of Assembly simply doesn't compare.
Polt has been slaying European nerds for a while.
He pretty much wins as many Euro online tournaments than the actual Europeans.
And just because MLG > Assembly in talent doesn't mean anything. Polt pretty much had, in either Assembly or MLG, one of the hardest roads all weekend. Taeja, Hero, Lucky, and Stephano? Testing all of his match-ups and not just one? His "weakest" match-up being the one he had to play in the semifinals/finals and going 7-2 against top competition?
On February 28 2012 05:33 blizzind wrote: Huk should definitely not be in code s. If any foreigner should be in code s it would be naniwa or stephano. Naniwa he has consistent winnings against some of the best players in the world. Huk having the easiest path in mlg winter was a big part of his 3rd place. You could see how once he started to face world class players he completely fell apart.
he beat OZ, One of the best PVP toss in the world.
People bitch about his run, because it was mostly PVP.
I find it funny, because stephano played in a tourny with ALOT weaker players, played like 80% ZvP (HIS BEST MU). and placed 1 spot higher than huk, yet he is herald as the next coming of christ.
To be honest, stephano is one of the best outside of korea, but he isnt "THE BEST BY FAR" as so many like to pretend.
I think Nani, huk, and stephano would be amazing additions to gsl. Even if polt deserves it more than all three.
Nah it's not the PvP people are bitching about. It's that he got to meet minigun and Socke in his bracket. Ret didn't seem that strong but Oz is pretty good from what iv'e recently heard from people.
NaNiwa had to meet Grubby and Sheth before meeting MKP who sent him to Lower Bracket. Id definately put Grubby and Sheth over minigun and Socke and MKP over all the players that HuK met in his bracket.
NaNiwa then went to LB and beat NesTea and Leenock before going out to DRG.
NaNiwa and HuK lost to the same players but NaNiwa had the harder way. If it weren't for HuK's easier bracket HuK would've gone to LB aswell.
NaNiwa getting beaten 2 times in the tournament by MKP and DRG. HuK getting beaten by the exact same players.
NaNiwa winning against 2 koreans (NesTea, Leenock). HuK winning against 1 korean (Oz).
So yeah i think NaNiwa is more deserving of a Code-S spot than HuK. Even more so when you think about his 2nd place at MLG providence.
Having beaten MVP, NesTea (3 times), DRG and Leenock in just a couple of months.
(He beat MVP, NesTea (2 times) and DongRaeGu at MLG Providence).
MKP should not get code S from the seed, that would trivialize the up and down matches as well as the ro24 -> code S match. He should not get seeded before or after that, and that's if he loses anyway. That could set a precedent for more Coca/Byun type of stuff. Besides, if he plays his best or close he's going up to code S anyway.
I really find it stupid people are saying "Naniwa or HuK, just because we don't need another Terran" Seriously? I may not like TvT but hell i would rather watch Polt try to Bio Vs Mech in Code S rather than watch HuK or Naniwa get dismantled and fall to last in their group.
ToD or Stephano, both are incredibly strong players that do very well. if we haven't seen ToD alot recently those who have watched his stream knows hes a monster. he beat alot of Code S players on his ladder, i was there when he crushed leenock 3 games in a row the other day.
On February 27 2012 20:25 Faggatron wrote: Would be very sad to see HuK get this over Naniwa. His performance at mlg was better even though he placed lower. They both lost to same opponents, but nani killed the 2nd and 3rd best zergs in the world (playing incredibly). Also he deserves it after being robbed over the probe rush, and I think he'd do a lot better than huk.
Played incredibly? Proxy 2 gate to beat Nestea? truly incredible.
That was ONE match, and it followed up TWO cheeses in a row from Nestea. That's besides the fact that Naniwa NEVER cheeses, which made his 2gate that more exciting to watch, especially since Nestea tried to cheese him out the prior two matches. Did you even watch Naniwa's matches? He actually did play incredibly the whole tournament, and if he wasn't such a stubborn and predictable player he wouldn't have gotten abused by DRG(I dont blame DRG one bit). Besides the fact that he had to play arguably the 3 best Zergs in the world, IN A ROW. Come on, I know there are lots of Naniwa haters but he played very well.
Well said. Also, (besides the fact that the only game that went long against nestea was won by naniwa, even though he was really far behind at one point), yes that proxy 2gate was incredible play.
Nestea had clearly studied Naniwa a lot, he knew he liked his greedy forge fast expand, and (cleverly) planned these all ins to take out that style. After seeing what nestea had done in the last 2 games, nani knew that nestea expected him to do his normal greedy build, and nestea choosing daybreak, nani knew he wanted to play a macro game. He was right, the 2gate killed him. It was well played.
Shows naniwa can mindgame gosu just like the top koreans (a quality top players should have).
On February 28 2012 01:45 dnld12 wrote: Its gotta be Naniwa. I can see it no other way. He's too good. WHile huk, good, he did not go through the gauntlet of players and kick some serious butt. I still feel like Naniwa deserves his Code s shine.
Yes Naniwa is so good that he has yet to win a game in the GSL in Code A much less Code S.
Naniwa's had his chance, numerous times to prove to someone other than his faithful that he belongs anywhere near the top level in the world.
And now he doesn't even have the credentials to back it up where Huk and Polt have superior relevant credentials in 2012 for their seeds, both of them PROVING that they have what it takes to compete at the top level.
Naniwa hasn't proven anything to anyone in Korea. He's beaten Nestea and Leenock a few times, but he also hasn't managed to win a game in Korea. That isn't a fair trade.
On February 28 2012 01:45 dnld12 wrote: Its gotta be Naniwa. I can see it no other way. He's too good. WHile huk, good, he did not go through the gauntlet of players and kick some serious butt. I still feel like Naniwa deserves his Code s shine.
Yes Naniwa is so good that he has yet to win a game in the GSL in Code A much less Code S.
Naniwa's had his chance, numerous times to prove to someone other than his faithful that he belongs anywhere near the top level in the world.
And now he doesn't even have the credentials to back it up where Huk and Polt have superior relevant credentials in 2012 for their seeds, both of them PROVING that they have what it takes to compete at the top level.
Naniwa hasn't proven anything to anyone in Korea. He's beaten Nestea and Leenock a few times, but he also hasn't managed to win a game in Korea. That isn't a fair trade.
Huk beat: Minigun, Socke, Ret, Oz Naniwa beat: Grubby, Sheth, Nestea, Leenock
And you say Huk has proven to compete in 2012 while Naniwa hasnt proven anything?
This whole seed thing needs to end. It takes away from the prestige and hard work it takes to get through Code B and neglects all those koreans who can't travel overseas to tournaments, where foreigners have the ability to travel to Korea. Mr. Chae, please get rid of seeding, if not for Koreans, at least for Jinro, since he understands and respects Code B.
On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote: The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Grubby
That's a joke list and you know it. You are placing HuK over NaNiwa simply because of the placement @ MLG Winter Arena even though HuK had the easier way and got the easier opponents than NaNiwa.
NaNiwa impressed way more than HuK.
putting HuK over NaNiwa simply because of a 3rd place @ MLG Winter Arena where he met "tough" opponents such as minigun and Socke..... HAH. What a joke i say! Get a grip and get real!
On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote: The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Grubby
Puma? why does no1 ever say him, he deserves a seed so much
PuMa most likely won't be able to attend the next Code A qualifier due to a schedule conflict with IEM and he is extremely disappointed about it. Wish he would receive a seed sometime in the future.
On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote: The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Grubby
Puma? why does no1 ever say him, he deserves a seed so much
Disagree. His runs in Korean online tournaments (featuring largely Code B players) have shown that he is not above most of the competition; a Code A seed would be generous, but a Code S one would be plain silly.
I used to like your write-ups, Wax, but your IdrA-bashing is reaching an all-time high, lately. At the very least, it used to be a bit more subtle. His play was about as good as HuK's was lately in the GSL.
Demuslim needs to prove himself a bit more against Koreans. I love the guy but Nestea's play seemed off. I think there are better foreigners to consider.
Stephano's interesting. I've never heard him mention in interviews if he's interested in ever going to Korea. The curveball there would be the fact that this is his last year as a progamer.
On February 28 2012 05:08 gedatsu wrote: Please, no Polt D: we only finally got rid of him D:
Polt-specific feelings aside, I think that someone who just got eliminated from code A shouldn't be eligible for a code S seed at least for the immediately following tournament. If Polt continues to slay European nerds then by all means, invite him in May or something. But not after he just got kicked out. Same goes for Huk. FTR, I was also against Naniwa receiving three invites in a row.
Also I would argue that MLG should weigh heavier than Assembly. The star power of Assembly simply doesn't compare.
Polt has been slaying European nerds for a while.
He pretty much wins as many Euro online tournaments than the actual Europeans.
And just because MLG > Assembly in talent doesn't mean anything. Polt pretty much had, in either Assembly or MLG, one of the hardest roads all weekend. Taeja, Hero, Lucky, and Stephano? Testing all of his match-ups and not just one? His "weakest" match-up being the one he had to play in the semifinals/finals and going 7-2 against top competition?
Yeah i agree, Polt pretty much hit all of the best players in Assembly. I would say only MarineKings run was more impressive however i doubt MarineKing wont win his Code A match or in the Up and downs so i don't think we need to worry about MarineKing getting a seed.
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone) Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea) Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN) Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Either you go through code A, qualify like a normal person and put up a decent performance in code S OR you get seeded directly in code S and go 0-4. Obviously GSL is doing it to attract/keep their foreign audience and that is why they will seed foreigners no matter if they're weak. I know at first it looks like a nice thing for the seeded players, but in reality it's a deception. GSL does not care if these seeded players humiliate themselves, their only purpose is to build hype and expand their viewers.
Personally, I wouldn't expect the Code S seed to go to a player currently in Code A. I'd even consider it a waste .
Players in Code A still get screen time, and it can be exciting to have players like MKP fight their way back up. These seeds should be for players who we otherwise wouldn't get to see.
On February 28 2012 08:52 songohan wrote: Either you go through code A, qualify like a normal person and put up a decent performance in code S OR you get seeded directly in code S and go 0-4. Obviously GSL is doing it to attract/keep their foreign audience and that is why they will seed foreigners no matter if they're weak. I know at first it looks like a nice thing for the seeded players, but in reality it's a deception. GSL does not care if these seeded players humiliate themselves, their only purpose is to build hype and expand their viewers.
The flip side is that by having these foreigners that are underpar in the Code S tournament you're essentially making the group stage of the round of 32 of Code S much less balanced.
Think about it, if a foreigner like Idra gets put into a group of Code S quality players and gets immediately 4-0'd out to the lower level of Code A he's essentially spared what could have been a player of Code S quality in his same spot that fate.
With 2 foreigners in Code S that essentially gives two groups a bye to the second round of Code A which saves them from elimination down to Code B while the players that are in the REAL groups still have to contend with the fact that one of them will be fighting for their GSL lives one way or the other.
That's why having foreigners who can't cut it is bad for the tournament. It makes the first round of Code S very imbalanced and gives certain players much easier paths to the round of 16 than others.
On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote: The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Grubby
Puma? why does no1 ever say him, he deserves a seed so much
Disagree. His runs in Korean online tournaments (featuring largely Code B players) have shown that he is not above most of the competition; a Code A seed would be generous, but a Code S one would be plain silly.
Considering just 2012 results, I really hope Polt gets a seed (Preferably Code A or in Up-and-Down as I personally don't think Code S spots should just be handed out). He got rather unlucky hitting Creator in the first round especially while being sick.
On February 28 2012 08:57 Belisarius wrote: Personally, I wouldn't expect the Code S seed to go to a player currently in Code A. I'd even consider it a waste .
Players in Code A still get screen time, and it can be exciting to have players like MKP fight their way back up. These seeds should be for players who we otherwise wouldn't get to see.
Even if they don't deserve it?
Having a popular player in Code S thats not as good as the players regardless of popularity already in Code S cheapens the tournament by making the round of 32 very imbalanced as far as group pairings go.
On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote: Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone) Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea) Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN) Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump. Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered. Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes. HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea.
From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
Cant believe how few mentions Sase and Morrow are getting. Both have done alright at the GSL and have been improving a lot in Korea and have adapted to the play style and country.
On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote: Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone) Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea) Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN) Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump. Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered. Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes. HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea.
From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
Well I've had my doubts about Stephano when Boxer knocked him out of Orlando. But in hindsight I think that had more to do with Boxer playing out of his mind than Stephano being a weak player. He looked absolutely monstrous at Assembly which made Polt's victory over him all the more impressive.
On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote: The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Grubby
That's a joke list and you know it. You are placing HuK over NaNiwa simply because of the placement @ MLG Winter Arena even though HuK had the easier way and got the easier opponents than NaNiwa.
NaNiwa impressed way more than HuK.
putting HuK over NaNiwa simply because of a 3rd place @ MLG Winter Arena where he met "tough" opponents such as minigun and Socke..... HAH. What a joke i say! Get a grip and get real!
I agree Naniwa had better wins, but you have to go by results IMO. Huk's results at MLG were stronger based on his higher finish. You can't be subjective about it and gauge the opponents, because then it becomes an opinion poll.
My list was based purely on results, and both Huk and Naniwa only have MLG since the last code S. I don't think the difference between Naniwa and Huk is large. They are both cold blooded killers if you ask me :D I love that both play to win, unreservedly.
I agree Puma and Dimaga should be up on the list as well. Perhaps even ahead of Grubby.
New List. 1. Polt 2. Stephano 3. Huk 4. Naniwa 5. Ret 6. Puma 7. Dimaga 8. Grubby
There are probably other Koreans who are even more deserving, plus the complications with the up/down matches and who might not even be code S. Violet? he's had excellent results lately. MKP.
I do think the Code S seed might be a little too generous, seeing as players who won't succeed in GSL are allowed over people who are more deserving. I think a Code A seed is more reasonable, seeing as it allows players to show off their talent without the hype and stress that comes with Code S. Would love to see Polt or Violet gain the seed, seeing as both have proven themselves recently, and foreigners haven't been as dominant in 2012 so far.
On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote: Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone) Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea) Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN) Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump. Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered. Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes. HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea.
From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
Dreamhack Winter 2011 isn't that far back f.ex. Stephano didn't just loose. He seemed a bit lost. Sase has been showing ever increasing potential. He is training in Korea has been showing a lot of potential. Naniwa's 0-10 doesn't speak volumes. Those where drone rushes, very close losses and bad luck with matchups. His multiple wins over top Koreans in and out of Korea are not in that number. Taking that number as representative for his stay is dumb. Huk hasn't performed lately outside of his run at the MLG. He did win Oz and Ret but he hasn't been pulling the wins Naniwa has.
I feel like it should be incentivized for foreign players to come over to Korean, long term, and work their way up through code B, A, and then, eventually, into S. I understand from a business point of view it makes sense to simply seed popular players into the top tournament, but under that system you never really know what you are going to get. The players could just bomb out. If someone like HuK or Idra made it all the way out of code B, into A, I would definitely buy a ticket because their chances of staying and providing a number of good games would be high. Same for foreigners working their way up to code S.
To me it has to be between Polt Stephano and HuK; if i were making the decisions i would give it to Polt and Stephano. I really want Stephano to be motivated to spend some time in Korea, train hard and give Code S a real, genuine shot! His ability is definitely incredible (watch his assembly games) and in saying that - Polt 4-1ing him speaks volumes to his ability.
If they want increased viewership they will invite 2 foreigners and skip over Polt; but i think Polt's performance certainly warrants a spot.
Naniwa would be cool for the second. Every korean's gonna tune in hoping he gets his ass kicked :D Though I don't think they've forgiven him quite enough to give him a code S spot yet.
Huk/Stephano are the two foreigners who would do the best in code S imo.
Dude, Huk 2-0'd Oz in the Winter Arena. Oz is known for AMAZING PvP and he is in Code S. I am sorry Naniwa is not even fun to watch, he is aweful comparably to every other Protoss that would be capable if not considered for a GSL Spot.
HuK needs to be given another shot in Code A. PLEASE GOMTV!
And whoever said Stephano is better than HuK that is debatable. Huk is probably (currently the best foreigner, he has done several good GSL runs, and on top of that performs well against almost every single Korean (good korean) pros I have seen recently, he is more than capable. However, I would like to see Stephano have an attempt (especially over Idra, I am sorry I cannot stand watching that bad mannered punk anymore, it isnt even funny anymore).
BTW, no bias here, I am a Terran player. (Lol, I know FML)
On February 28 2012 05:33 blizzind wrote: Huk should definitely not be in code s. If any foreigner should be in code s it would be naniwa or stephano. Naniwa he has consistent winnings against some of the best players in the world. Huk having the easiest path in mlg winter was a big part of his 3rd place. You could see how once he started to face world class players he completely fell apart.
Exacytly Naniwa knocked down Nestea and Leenock (in his worst match up and their good match ups) Tbh, Naniwa is my best foreigner at this tournament...
Get Nani back plz, the guy can't play code A b/c he's belong to code S lol. j/k Polt is guaranteed a spot for sure imo. Then it could be between Huk and Stephano depend on if Stephano want to go or not.
On February 28 2012 10:23 Mystgun wrote: Why don't you just make them play for it? Grab Polt, Huk, Stephano, and Naniwa and have them play a group stage together.
shit, this actually is a fucking genius idea lololol
Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
On February 28 2012 10:44 negativedge wrote: Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
Both MC and MMA gained Code S seeds directly after bombinb out of Code A.
Polt should most definitely have one of the seeds, with Stephano as the other. Of course, with the likelihood of Stephano not accepting the seed, it should go to HuK or NaNi, in my opinion. There are good debates for both players to make it, but I'm rooting for HuK, mostly due to his nationality (Go Canada!). I would be happy with either, though.
But MC and MMA did not get those Code S seeds from invites--they won them as a result of a system that was set up to reward MLG performances, regardless of who took advantage. That is not the case here.
Well, that may be so, but in none of the cases is failure being rewarded. Polt is being rewarded for an outstanding performance at Assembly Winter, and HuK is being rewarded for great performances at MLG Winter Arena. It's not a safety net, it's a reward for great performances elsewhere. The foreign seeds are to focus strictly on foreign tournaments - not on the GSL. At least, that's how I took it.
Usually TL staff writes great articles, but this article leaves out many players that have a decent shot at the seed due to their results. People keep on talking about huk, naniwa, idra, Demuslim, and Stephano as foreigners who have a shot at the seed but what about Dimaga and Kas? These guys have the results that could justify a seed.
Dimaga's time in Korea was very impressive, beating Nestea in a huge upset at the GSL world championship. Recently, he got 2nd at Kiev and top 8 at Homestory Cup, losing to MMA and jyp respectively.
Kas won 3rd at both WCG and Kiev, beating MKP at the fomer event and Zenio twice at the latter event. Of course he has also dominated in numerous other tournaments.
We cannot forget about these guys when discussing seeding: it's like making a conclusion before all the data is collected. A lot of people say that foreigners have had enough chances, but these guys have not yet been given a chance in the new system. I'm tired of hearing debates where everyone is only focused on Huk, Naniwa and Stephano. Let some other foreign players have a shot please. Don't close the door of opportunity based off of the performance of two players.
On February 28 2012 10:44 negativedge wrote: Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
This logic is totally irrelevant due to the precedent regarding seeding.
MMA, and MC both got seeds into Code S via the MLG after dropping out of Code A already, and they are considered some of the best players of their respective races in the GSL right now.
If GOM had never set that precedent before your logic might have merit, but they already set the precedent and we the viewers have been rewarded for it. MC and MMA continue to be two of the strongest most popular players in the tournament and we'd have missed out on that if we had skipped over seeding them.
If you want another example, DRG only managed to get into Code S after obtaining an MLG seed. Should they have skipped him too because of his lackluster showing in Code A?
I really doubt HuK or NaNiwa would bomb as badly as IdrA or Sen did. Put plainly, IdrA is in a slump and not performing well anywhere lately. As a long-time viewer of the tournament, I think passing up Polt in favor of foreigners who are performing well at the time wouldn't mean a hit to the GSL's integrity; inviting IdrA again would be scandalous however, as he has done nothing to merit an invite lately and even though he already got one very recently, he made an irrefutable case that he should not be in Code S right now.
On February 28 2012 10:44 negativedge wrote: Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
This logic is totally irrelevant due to the precedent regarding seeding.
MMA, and MC both got seeds into Code S via the MLG after dropping out of Code A already, and they are considered some of the best players of their respective races in the GSL right now.
If GOM had never set that precedent before your logic might have merit, but they already set the precedent and we the viewers have been rewarded for it. MC and MMA continue to be two of the strongest most popular players in the tournament and we'd have missed out on that if we had skipped over seeding them.
If you want another example, DRG only managed to get into Code S after obtaining an MLG seed. Should they have skipped him too because of his lackluster showing in Code A?
I already responded to this argument. In brief: the cases you cite involved no subjective deliberation, and no invites as such. GOM set up a system to reward MLG performance in a direct, objective manner, and it did so before seeing who the players that would benefit from such a situation even were. That GOM directly scrapped the system in question might hint that they found the results unsatisfactory. If that is the case, it would seem likely that they would be inclined to offer GSL seeds to people that have not recently failed in the GSL. Either way, precedent here is irrelevant specifically because they changed the system on which you are basing that precedent. And given that, it is perfectly ok to argue that the GSL should look outside of its recent participants for seeding purposes. Polt and Huk just had their chances, and they did not take advantage of them. Considering they both live in Korea, and considering they are both experienced and talented, one would assume they would find their way back in the old fashioned way if so they choose.
On February 28 2012 10:44 negativedge wrote: Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
This logic is totally irrelevant due to the precedent regarding seeding.
MMA, and MC both got seeds into Code S via the MLG after dropping out of Code A already, and they are considered some of the best players of their respective races in the GSL right now.
If GOM had never set that precedent before your logic might have merit, but they already set the precedent and we the viewers have been rewarded for it. MC and MMA continue to be two of the strongest most popular players in the tournament and we'd have missed out on that if we had skipped over seeding them.
If you want another example, DRG only managed to get into Code S after obtaining an MLG seed. Should they have skipped him too because of his lackluster showing in Code A?
I already responded to this argument. In brief: the cases you cite involved no subjective deliberation, and no invites as such. GOM set up a system to reward MLG performance in a direct, objective manner, and it did so before seeing who the players that would benefit from such a situation even were. That GOM directly scrapped the system in question might hint that they found the results unsatisfactory. If that is the case, it would seem likely that they would be inclined to offer GSL seeds to people that have not recently failed in the GSL. Either way, precedent here is irrelevant specifically because they changed the system on which you are basing that precedent. And given that, it is perfectly ok to argue that the GSL should look outside of its recent participants for seeding purposes. Polt and Huk just had their chances, and they did not take advantage of them. Considering they both live in Korea, and considering they are both experienced and talented, one would assume they would find their way back in the old fashioned way if so they choose.
Dude it should be obvious WHY they scrapped it.
Because you didn't even need to win MLG to get the seed you merely had to be the highest placed Non Code S member playing as long as you placed at a minimum of 3rd place. That was so much easier than Code A was at the time it was actually embarassing.
Second, the exchange program ONLY worked with MLG, and left every other foreign tournament out of the picture. This is probably the biggest reason they scrapped it.
I think the continued success of guys like MMA, MC and DRG in the GSL thanks to the previous iteration will convince them that the Koreans requalifying through that program was actually a good thing, not a bad thing.
The reason I disagree with this article is simply that otherwise the GSL code S would probably more often than not be Korean for 32 /32 players. While GOM should look to make more transparent / "objective" decisions I think it is very worthwhile for a couple non-Koreans to remain in the GSL just for the possibility of upsets. Even while these seeds may lead to a lower average win-rate, they have a lot of value for the overall development of e-sports since:
1. The GSL is the preeminent tournament and it's foreign audience is huge - it is good for us to have at least a few underdog foreign players to root for. 2. It gives foreigners a chance to play at the GSL level, and that could be very helpful in the creation of a future where a few foreigners can really play at that very very top Korean level. 3. Without living in Korea, it is effectively impossible to reach Code S from the bottom up (only Huk). It is not fair to expect a foreigner to spend multiple seasons of 2 months now to be recognized at that level. 4. Diversity brings excitement to foreign tournaments - players like TLO, incontrol, (in Korea) Boxer, and (sort of) White-Ra add a lot to tournaments even without as many consistent results as other players and this is why they are invariably invited to the top tournaments. Giving foreigner seeds serves a similar purpose. At the same time it is necessary to have dominant players to root against - and so these tournaments pay a lot of moneyto give players like MMA plane tickets. 5. If I don't have the money for the full tournament, I will stay up until 2:00 AM to watch the live stream if a foreigner is ever in the semi-final
However, I do think other measures like the ESV weekly are a good way to create (admittedly code A) seeds for Korean players. It might be reasonable to find a way to tie in 1 code S seed with some other tournament like that, but that might be too hard to arrange.
Nice article. I thought the shots at IdrA were unnecessary/immature, but to each his own. Other than that, good read. I would love to see DeMu at a Korean event, he's pretty boss.
Polt could win the GSL, he's proven that. Stephano could scare the crap out of everyone and get far Huk could win 2 or 3 rounds Puma could win 2 or 3 rounds Naniwa could win 1 or 2 rounds a few others could win a match or two.
Maybe give each GSL personality an invite to use, and the one who invites the person who goes farthest gets bragging rights.
The goal should be to bring an outsider into the fold, the elite Code S fold.
But to not pick someone who could win it, or who could make a run in it, doesn't make any sense. The GSL doesn't need cannon fodder. It needs personalities and player that can stick.
That being said, any player could lose round 1 too. Its a tough league, that doesn't iterate very quickly.
i said it once and i'll say it again. they will not give the code s seeds to korean players. the purpose is to attract foreigner audience. stop blabbering about polt.
On February 28 2012 13:27 songohan wrote: i said it once and i'll say it again. they will not give the code s seeds to korean players. the purpose is to attract foreigner audience. stop blabbering about polt.
I think this is true, despite blathering about Polt.
So, not Polt and not Stephano .
So Huk for sure and then it would be Naniwa..... but he's probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt, so the next guy in line is.......
On February 28 2012 13:27 songohan wrote: i said it once and i'll say it again. they will not give the code s seeds to korean players. the purpose is to attract foreigner audience. stop blabbering about polt.
Nobody, foreigner or korean wants to watch people go to the GSL just to get wrecked in the first round by much superior competition ruining the integrity of the first round by having very lopsided group make ups.
GOM would have to be pretty thick to use a hard lined stance like "foreigners only" after what happened in season 1 of 2012.
On February 28 2012 13:27 songohan wrote: i said it once and i'll say it again. they will not give the code s seeds to korean players. the purpose is to attract foreigner audience. stop blabbering about polt.
I think this is true, despite blathering about Polt.
So, not Polt and not Stephano .
So Huk for sure and then it would be Naniwa..... but he's probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt, so the next guy in line is.......
Ret
They like zerg.
Huk and Ret
Agree, I think Naniwa is honestly a joke and not as good as everyone is making him out to be. Meh.
I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
HuK: With his only decent result in a long time being a particularly underwhelming run to third place, maybe except for his win against OZ, in a coinflip matchup, I doubt very much that we could see him impress.
IdrA: Maybe. Very maybe.
Demuslim: No.
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
HuK: With his only decent result in a long time being a particularly underwhelming run to third place, maybe except for his win against OZ, in a coinflip matchup, I doubt very much that we could see him impress.
IdrA: Maybe. Very maybe.
Demuslim: No.
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
So Stephano isn't worthy of a spot because for some reason wins at Assembly don't count, even against good players, while idra is "very maybe" even though he literally hasn't won a match in 2012 and was just 0-6 stomped from S to B?
I guess IdrA is a no then, I think by very maybe I meant in the future, so probably not this season. I would love to see Stephano in the GSL for two reasons, to get roflstomped, and because he would bring a pretty decent following of Europeans that are oddly myopic and think he is the best player in the world. But, no, I don't think he "deserves" it by any means. Out of the people in the OP, I think the only players that "deserve" a Code S spot are Violet and Polt.
Perhaps Sen and IdrA could have done better in different groups, on a different day, but as the results stand, it was a blemish on the GSL's reputation as the most prestigious, difficult league in the world. Some kind of move back to a more meritocratic system is inevitable.
What.
The fact that some of the best non-koreans couldn't do dick in the GSL proves that GSL is the most difficult.
I believe his point is that a league that hands out free passes to people that are undeserving is in some way undermining its own competitiveness--not that the league actually lacks extreme competition, but that it has taken some kind of a hit by foregoing some measure of that competition in general.
I want to see Stephano too. He is the only one who would make me buy a season ticket for GSL. I don't believe there is any other single foreigner able to challenge seriously the Koreans
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
Ok, so Stephano is no match for GSL players, but Naniwa would do great? I'm wondering which of the two is currently 1-11 in his GSL record, lmfao
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
Ok, so Stephano is no match for GSL players, but Naniwa would do great? I'm wondering which of the two is currently 1-11 in his GSL record, lmfao
Errrrr, Idk if I said he would do great, I said he is incredibly talented and am interested in seeing HOW well he could do. Reading comprehension is a useful skill, cultivate it, and when you finally take your SAT, maybe you will score higher than 100 that section and can avoid attending your nearest community college.
EDIT: Oh, you're French lol. Difficult to talk sense into enraged fanboys.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
Ok, so Stephano is no match for GSL players, but Naniwa would do great? I'm wondering which of the two is currently 1-11 in his GSL record, lmfao
Errrrr, Idk if I said he would do great, I said he is incredibly talented and am interested in seeing HOW well he could do. Reading comprehension is a useful skill, cultivate it, and when you finally take your SAT, maybe you will score higher than 100 that section and can avoid attending your nearest community college.
EDIT: Oh, you're French lol. Difficult to talk sense into enraged fanboys.
I just had some make an account when I saw you 3 last post.
You are so incredible rude my jaw allmost dropped
Just to make a point since i was doing a comparision between Stephano and lucky from assemply. If you go and analyse the replays you can see a huge difference between the 2.
Not just in styles but overall mechanics. And its not like Lucky is a bad player he played code S this season beat idra very and qualified to code S last season. So he is a very high lvl zerg.
However if you compare him to Stephano is like night and day.
Stephano never gets supplied blocked he is also much much faster then lucky. APM, multitasking etc his decision making.
Watch the games Lucky puma, Stephano puma and polt, stephano.
Stephano and polt played one of the most fantastic final I ever seen so many amasing small details. Like using his infestor egss to locate where polts tanks was etc.
And if you compare the final to the 3rd place final it was huge you could really see a skill difference.
Just a small point. And if Stephano can make lucky a Code S/Coda A zerg look like average then ofcourse stephano would do well in GSL if Lucky could get to code s you dont think Stephano would?
After watching and analyse his relay from assemply vs polt and puma btw his worst matchup Im convinced he would be veyr high in code S. Im not saying he is the world best not at all. Stephano still needs to work on his ZvT he is sometimes way to agressive.
And another point
First of all you say he plays the same bad players over and over again?
Well have you looked at his opponent the last 4-5 months? His opposition has been as tough as any other pro player.
plus his domination over the foreign scene is quite insane he wins everything basically with a price in. And considering some of these foreigners Stephano dominates beat alot of top koreans at MLG just say something about how solid Stephano is.
Sc2 is very volatile but stephano proves it again and again and there is a reason why he is one the highest price earning players in the world.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
Ok, so Stephano is no match for GSL players, but Naniwa would do great? I'm wondering which of the two is currently 1-11 in his GSL record, lmfao
Errrrr, Idk if I said he would do great, I said he is incredibly talented and am interested in seeing HOW well he could do. Reading comprehension is a useful skill, cultivate it, and when you finally take your SAT, maybe you will score higher than 100 that section and can avoid attending your nearest community college.
EDIT: Oh, you're French lol. Difficult to talk sense into enraged fanboys.
I just had some make an account when I saw you 3 last post.
You are so incredible rude my jaw allmost dropped
Just to make a point since i was doing a comparision between Stephano and lucky from assemply. If you go and analyse the replays you can see a huge difference between the 2.
Not just in styles but overall mechanics. And its not like Lucky is a bad player he played code S this season beat idra very and qualified to code S last season. So he is a very high lvl zerg.
However if you compare him to Stephano is like night and day.
Stephano never gets supplied blocked he is also much much faster then lucky. APM, multitasking etc his decision making.
Watch the games Lucky puma, Stephano puma and polt, stephano.
Stephano and polt played one of the most fantastic final I ever seen so many amasing small details. Like using his infestor egss to locate where polts tanks was etc.
And if you compare the final to the 3rd place final it was huge you could really see a skill difference.
Just a small point. And if Stephano can make lucky a Code S/Coda A zerg look like average then ofcourse stephano would do well in GSL if Lucky could get to code s you dont think Stephano would?
After watching and analyse his relay from assemply vs polt and puma btw his worst matchup Im convinced he would be veyr high in code S. Im not saying he is the world best not at all. Stephano still needs to work on his ZvT he is sometimes way to agressive.
And another point
First of all you say he plays the same bad players over and over again?
Well have you looked at his opponent the last 4-5 months? His opposition has been as tough as any other pro player.
plus his domination over the foreign scene is quite insane he wins everything basically with a price in. And considering some of these foreigners Stephano dominates beat alot of top koreans at MLG just say something about how solid Stephano is.
Sc2 is very volatile but stephano proves it again and again and there is a reason why he is one the highest price earning players in the world.
I would really like to have the known foreigners like Stephano and Idra in Code S because - foreigners vs koreans -> more tension/competition - great caster duo there (would be more fair to give them Code A spots but the casting isn't great there) - see how well they do, even if they lose I don't mind - clash of different styles
I'm not sure why you emphasize HuK's run through the Winter Arena, but completely ignore Naniwas run through the Winter Arena, which was just as successful (Both losing to DRG and MKP) and clearly more difficult. I feel like you just looked at the rank they finished in and that was that...
I'm not sure why you emphasize HuK's run through the Winter Arena, but completely ignore Naniwas run through the Winter Arena, which was just as successful (Both losing to DRG and MKP) and clearly more difficult. I feel like you just looked at the rank they finished in and that was that...
It's funny, if the two switched places, HuK would have been eliminated in his first two matches (v MKP, then v Sheth), while Naniwa would have been third place.
HuK's only notable win was against OZ, a phenomenal player, in a coinflip match up.
Both are foreigners and could therefore broaden the audience. Both are willing to go to korea to attend code S if i'm not mistaken and have proven that they can perform in korea. Both can take some bo3 to the best players, and more consistently than most foreigners. Both have a good fanbase. Neither of them were invited last season. Neither of them have had issue with GomTv in past events.
Unfortunatly I still think that code S is too hard for them.
On February 28 2012 19:52 Thurken wrote: I think that Ret and Huk are the best choice.
Both are foreigners and could therefore broaden the audience. Both are willing to go to korea to attend code S if i'm not mistaken and have proven that they can perform in korea. Both can take some bo3 to the best players, and more consistently than most foreigners. Both have a good fanbase. Neither of them were invited last season. Neither of them have had issue with GomTv in past events.
Unfortunatly I still think that code S is too hard for them.
Huk's original Code S placement was through a seed. That was a while ago, but he was an invite not a qualifier.
The thing is that with the new 2 month seasons, accepting a GSL invite means you are commiting to stay in Korea for 2 months, right? At the moment I don't think a whole lot of foreigners would do that. Naniwa, Huk, Jinro and SaSe have all claimed (or seems) to be ready to stay for "as long as it takes".
Personally I really want it to be Naniwa. Yes, I'm Swedish and obviously biased, but I think GOM would be hard pressed to find another foreigner:
...with higher change of performing well. ...that would bring more attention and viewers to GSL. ...that is willing to stay the entire season (and following seasons).
Apparently a lot of korean fans, players and coaches see Naniwa as the devil, which might make it hard for GOM to give him a seed. But if the seeds were purely based on skill and honor, Koreans should get both of the code S invites. And I just can't imagine GOM running a Code S without a single foreigner, if they have the opportunity to invite one. (Which is probably why they changed the seed rules into a more arbitrary one anyway) There's just too much viewer/sponsorship money involved.
HuK wouldnt even have made top 8 at MLG. He got a ridiculusly easy bracket and havent faced a korean till top 8 and then it was a PvP. Thats as lucky as you can possible get. Then he got totally destroyed by both MKP and DRG wasnt even close. I must say that Naniwa beating Nestea and Leenock or demuslim beating nestea was way more impressive than his run.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
HuK: With his only decent result in a long time being a particularly underwhelming run to third place, maybe except for his win against OZ, in a coinflip matchup, I doubt very much that we could see him impress.
IdrA: Maybe. Very maybe.
Demuslim: No.
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
I'm not sure I get your point about Assembly. Not that it should matter WHERE he 3-0'd PuMa, but even if it did in what universe is Assembly not a top western tournament?
Though judging from your other, very rude, posts, you're just trolling.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
HuK: With his only decent result in a long time being a particularly underwhelming run to third place, maybe except for his win against OZ, in a coinflip matchup, I doubt very much that we could see him impress.
IdrA: Maybe. Very maybe.
Demuslim: No.
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
I'm not sure I get your point about Assembly. Not that it should matter WHERE he 3-0'd PuMa, but even if it did in what universe is Assembly not a top western tournament?
Though judging from your other, very rude, posts, you're just trolling.
Trolling is a terrible word tbh we used to call them stupid.
On February 28 2012 20:39 Ponchey wrote: The thing is that with the new 2 month seasons, accepting a GSL invite means you are commiting to stay in Korea for 2 months, right? At the moment I don't think a whole lot of foreigners would do that. Naniwa, Huk, Jinro and SaSe have all claimed (or seems) to be ready to stay for "as long as it takes".
Personally I really want it to be Naniwa. Yes, I'm Swedish and obviously biased, but I think GOM would be hard pressed to find another foreigner:
...with higher change of performing well. ...that would bring more attention and viewers to GSL. ...that is willing to stay the entire season (and following seasons).
Apparently a lot of korean fans, players and coaches see Naniwa as the devil, which might make it hard for GOM to give him a seed. But if the seeds were purely based on skill and honor, Koreans should get both of the code S invites. And I just can't imagine GOM running a Code S without a single foreigner, if they have the opportunity to invite one. (Which is probably why they changed the seed rules into a more arbitrary one anyway) There's just too much viewer/sponsorship money involved.
This.
It's the big problem of foreigners in GSL imho. GSL is hard to play if you're not korean (by birth or in your head). The only way to have many more foreigners wishing to play in GSL would be to make it way way shorter. Most of top foreigner don't want to live in Korea, for many obvious reasons.
They are OK for a 1 week trip, but not for a long time. That's why, like you said, finding foreigners is a real challenge for GOM imho.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
HuK: With his only decent result in a long time being a particularly underwhelming run to third place, maybe except for his win against OZ, in a coinflip matchup, I doubt very much that we could see him impress.
IdrA: Maybe. Very maybe.
Demuslim: No.
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
I'm not sure I get your point about Assembly. Not that it should matter WHERE he 3-0'd PuMa, but even if it did in what universe is Assembly not a top western tournament?
Though judging from your other, very rude, posts, you're just trolling.
Trolling is a terrible word tbh we used to call them stupid.
YAY! SO WHO DO YOU GUYS THINK SHOULD BE IN CODE S =D
On February 28 2012 19:52 Thurken wrote: I think that Ret and Huk are the best choice.
Both are foreigners and could therefore broaden the audience. Both are willing to go to korea to attend code S if i'm not mistaken and have proven that they can perform in korea. Both can take some bo3 to the best players, and more consistently than most foreigners. Both have a good fanbase. Neither of them were invited last season. Neither of them have had issue with GomTv in past events.
Unfortunatly I still think that code S is too hard for them.
Huk's original Code S placement was through a seed. That was a while ago, but he was an invite not a qualifier.
HuK got a Code A seed and made it to Code S the hard way.
I'd love to see Major in the gsl, he's already over at the gom house and he's argueably the best foreign terran out there. The second person I'd like to see is LastShadow, aka ajtls. If you see his streams or vlogs you'll see how amazingly intelligent he is. He's also said he will never go to a foreign tournament because he wants to be the best, and going to a foreign tournament will hinder that. He's that hardcore.
Quick translation of the 2 questions that may be of interest to the thread:
ITW: You said during Lan Assembly that fan support made you want to continue playing next year. How do you feel about it now ?
Stephano: I'm still thinking about it. Going on playing was out of the question 5 month ago, but it does not seem absurd right now. Do not raise your hopes too much though, I will let everyone know once I have decided
ITW: What about Corea, are you thinking about it, or is it still a definite no ? Let's imagine you receive an invite to Code S !
Stephano: I'm sure I don't want to live in Corea. A training period of 10 days there to improve, maybe. Concerning GSL, it's mainly a schedule issue. If I can stay in Corea to play it without missing any major European or American event, I'll go.
People shouldn't care what nationality or race a player is. If the games are good then the spectators should enjoy. It's not wrong to cheer on the home team but a tournament like the GSL represents the highest level of skill and if no foreigner can achieve that level of skill or cannot make it to Korea (Stephano's case) then GOMtv shouldn't be looking for a spacefiller when you can have 2 more Code-S worthy Koreans instead of someone like Idra. People loved the MMA vs. DRG match and both are highly skilled Koreans. It's in the interest of the the game itself that we as the community embrace any matchup of any race as long as they are the two best skilled players. Idra had his shot and despite early success he failed later on (same with Jinro). HuK is the success story of a foreigner in the GSL as he has held on different levels of success in Code-S and the up-and-down matches. He dipped a bit recently but he'll be back at it and practicing again. NaNiwa hasn't really shown results in Korea but has shown he can obviously compete against high level players...I only question his consistency. Stephano seems to be a consistent zerg and although he is probably the best foreigner outside of Korea, I don't know how well he'll consistently measure up against Koreans. It's quite different to play a Korean from time to time with time to prep and then play a Korean everyday on the KR ladder where people know you and your style. The gaming culture is very different...obviously. If you can't find the right player outside Korea....stop looking...they come over and they fail.
On February 28 2012 15:02 sooohawt wrote: I guess IdrA is a no then, I think by very maybe I meant in the future, so probably not this season. I would love to see Stephano in the GSL for two reasons, to get roflstomped, and because he would bring a pretty decent following of Europeans that are oddly myopic and think he is the best player in the world. But, no, I don't think he "deserves" it by any means. Out of the people in the OP, I think the only players that "deserve" a Code S spot are Violet and Polt.
Idra has no chance in hell. He just got a seed and has not had any results in months. I just cannot fathom why people, including the OP still bring his name up as a possible contender. The GSL likes to give foreigner seeds, but they are not going to make a mockery of their most prestigious tournament to give Idra another seed when there are foreigners who have done well in major tournaments in the past few months, such as Huk, Dimaga, Stephano, Kas, etc.
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
...
Stephano: Would like to see him get curb stomped. But his presence at GSL would bring a decidedly larger audience than the other players mentioned, so, there's that.
Did you watch the Blizzard cup? Stephano defeated DRG, who placed second in that cup after a very close final, second in this MLG, and will play the final of the current GSL. Stephano also lost to MC after MC very narrowly held an early attack. Two wins, one narrow loss and one clear loss in the strongest tournament of last year, and you think he will get stomped against players like Virus, Squirtle, Killer and Maru who are all standing in line to entering code S? Get real.
I never liked Idra , but i like the hype he always caused... If idra started winning i bet MLG would sell-out PPVs ! he really should start thinking into changing races, for terran
Idra , Huk , naniwa , stephano should be the chosen ones , if they include korean they should select 2 great players who have fallen of code S
I cant understand how ppl can think of Demuslim/Idra/Naniwa to be talented foreigners and on the other hand despise Stephano... I am not from the people who says he s the best of the world (not even top 5/10 in fact) but i am convinced he s the best foreigner by skill and results. Moreover i really love to watch his games (won or lost), i think he rly has a unique and creative style... therefore i don't see any foreigner who would deserve a code S spot more than him REALLY NOT.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
Have you watched his games....? He is clearly above Naniwa, HuK and Stephano..
On February 28 2012 14:28 sooohawt wrote: I'd like to see Stephano in the GSL just to get people to stfu about how good he is. He plays the same bad players over and over and wins. YAYYYYYY.
"Well, he beat Puma pretty handily at Assembly"
lol, Assembly.
Those mentioned that deserve this: Violet. Polt. Obviously MKP, but he's going to make it in Code S anyway. I'm a huge Naniwa fan. He is incredibly talented and I would like to see how well he could perform.
Ok, so Stephano is no match for GSL players, but Naniwa would do great? I'm wondering which of the two is currently 1-11 in his GSL record, lmfao
Errrrr, Idk if I said he would do great, I said he is incredibly talented and am interested in seeing HOW well he could do. Reading comprehension is a useful skill, cultivate it, and when you finally take your SAT, maybe you will score higher than 100 that section and can avoid attending your nearest community college.
EDIT: Oh, you're French lol. Difficult to talk sense into enraged fanboys.
Reading comprehension is indeed a useful skill. One that you don't seem to have. He said that Naniwa has 1-11 GSL record. So it actually means we've all seen how well he did in the GSL already. Is it clearer in your little brain now?
I just don't see the problem of the foreigners. the prizepool of GSL Code S is pretty damn high. You can attend every other major tournament beside, that's no problem as Huk, Naniwa and all those koreans show us. It's of course a big deal, moving for several months into another country, another culture. But I honestly think that this is a worthy experience. I hope Stephano takes the challenge. Otherwise I would guess Polt & Huk make it to Code S, Naniwa and Demuslim (if he accepts this time) (+maybe Ret, if he wants to go back to korea too) get an Up & Down seed. This would be ok for everyone. And yeah, I also think Polt deserves it, considering his latest tournament results and level of play.
On February 27 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You don't need more Terrans in GSL, especially not one like Polt. There's a reason he's not in the GSL anymore. Stephano, Naniwa and Huk would be much better in Code S.
Have you watched his games....? He is clearly above Naniwa, HuK and Stephano..
Race might be something they take into consideration though, since both Sen and Idra are zerg and got the spots last season aswell. Afaik there are now 9 terran, 7 protoss & a measely 4 zerg qualified for next season's code S. Though the up & downs might balance it out a bit, sofar 11 terran, 9 protoss & 8 zerg in up & downs so that's not so bad yet at least.
Soooooo Many HuK fans, Let somebody else try. I would love to see Kas or TitaN go to try out in GSL , they proven that they are top foreigners, and guy like Kas who is just practising there in his house who is already beastly, and can put a looot of effort in practice i think will benefit a lot from Korean house training!
On March 03 2012 15:33 Corsica wrote: Soooooo Many HuK fans, Let somebody else try. I would love to see Kas or TitaN go to try out in GSL , they proven that they are top foreigners, and guy like Kas who is just practising there in his house who is already beastly, and can put a looot of effort in practice i think will benefit a lot from Korean house training!
lol... you tend to have a lot of fans when you give great games... he wins quite a bit more than most foreigners against top koreans since he plays them quite often. I would say HuK is outta practice quite a bit from his vacation, but is coming around.
EPT
EG.IdrA and 
EG.PuMa and 
Liquid`HerO were more deserving if you consider only tournament finishes (the new system also allowed GomTV to award seeds to Koreans). We all know the results: IdrA and Sen bombed out of Code S as last place in their groups. IdrA continued his fall into Code B, though Sen recovered and found a way into the Up-Down matches.
As Fionn has so adeptly shown, you can almost shame the GSL into seeding Polt after the abysmal performances of foreigners this season. Forget his merits as a player (he's definitely Code S class, a guy who can keep bringing his best in the later rounds, and knows how to prepare for a series) – if the GSL doesn't seed Polt in favor of a foreigner, it would show GomTV doesn't mind tarnishing their reputation a little, in order to sell more tickets. It's something every tournament does to some degree, but it would be one of the most explicit admissions of that fact.![[image loading]](/staff/fishuu/muleQueen2.png)
. I agree on everything and i gotta say your one of the first in a while who's given any props to HuK, ty for that. 
