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On February 28 2012 08:52 songohan wrote:
Either you go through code A, qualify like a normal person and put up a decent performance in code S OR you get seeded directly in code S and go 0-4. Obviously GSL is doing it to attract/keep their foreign audience and that is why they will seed foreigners no matter if they're weak. I know at first it looks like a nice thing for the seeded players, but in reality it's a deception. GSL does not care if these seeded players humiliate themselves, their only purpose is to build hype and expand their viewers.
The flip side is that by having these foreigners that are underpar in the Code S tournament you're essentially making the group stage of the round of 32 of Code S much less balanced.
Think about it, if a foreigner like Idra gets put into a group of Code S quality players and gets immediately 4-0'd out to the lower level of Code A he's essentially spared what could have been a player of Code S quality in his same spot that fate.
With 2 foreigners in Code S that essentially gives two groups a bye to the second round of Code A which saves them from elimination down to Code B while the players that are in the REAL groups still have to contend with the fact that one of them will be fighting for their GSL lives one way or the other.
That's why having foreigners who can't cut it is bad for the tournament. It makes the first round of Code S very imbalanced and gives certain players much easier paths to the round of 16 than others.
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On February 28 2012 08:46 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:29 ydeer1993 wrote:On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote:
The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt
2. Stephano
3. Huk
4. Naniwa
5. Ret
6. Grubby
Puma? why does no1 ever say him, he deserves a seed so much Disagree. His runs in Korean online tournaments (featuring largely Code B players) have shown that he is not above most of the competition; a Code A seed would be generous, but a Code S one would be plain silly.
Which tournaments are you referring to?
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Considering just 2012 results, I really hope Polt gets a seed (Preferably Code A or in Up-and-Down as I personally don't think Code S spots should just be handed out). He got rather unlucky hitting Creator in the first round especially while being sick.
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On February 28 2012 08:57 Belisarius wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't expect the Code S seed to go to a player currently in Code A. I'd even consider it a waste .
Players in Code A still get screen time, and it can be exciting to have players like MKP fight their way back up. These seeds should be for players who we otherwise wouldn't get to see.
Even if they don't deserve it?
Having a popular player in Code S thats not as good as the players regardless of popularity already in Code S cheapens the tournament by making the round of 32 very imbalanced as far as group pairings go.
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On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote:
Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone)
Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea)
Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN)
Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump.
Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered.
Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes.
HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea.
From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
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Iceland94 Posts
Cant believe how few mentions Sase and Morrow are getting. Both have done alright at the GSL and have been improving a lot in Korea and have adapted to the play style and country.
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On February 28 2012 09:12 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote:
Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone)
Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea)
Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN)
Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump. Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered. Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes. HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea. From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
Well I've had my doubts about Stephano when Boxer knocked him out of Orlando. But in hindsight I think that had more to do with Boxer playing out of his mind than Stephano being a weak player. He looked absolutely monstrous at Assembly which made Polt's victory over him all the more impressive.
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On February 28 2012 08:41 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:22 dsousa wrote:
The order in which they should offer the seeds to is..
1. Polt
2. Stephano
3. Huk
4. Naniwa
5. Ret
6. Grubby
That's a joke list and you know it. You are placing HuK over NaNiwa simply because of the placement @ MLG Winter Arena even though HuK had the easier way and got the easier opponents than NaNiwa. NaNiwa impressed way more than HuK. putting HuK over NaNiwa simply because of a 3rd place @ MLG Winter Arena where he met "tough" opponents such as minigun and Socke..... HAH. What a joke i say! Get a grip and get real!
I agree Naniwa had better wins, but you have to go by results IMO. Huk's results at MLG were stronger based on his higher finish. You can't be subjective about it and gauge the opponents, because then it becomes an opinion poll.
My list was based purely on results, and both Huk and Naniwa only have MLG since the last code S. I don't think the difference between Naniwa and Huk is large. They are both cold blooded killers if you ask me :D I love that both play to win, unreservedly.
I agree Puma and Dimaga should be up on the list as well. Perhaps even ahead of Grubby.
New List.
1. Polt
2. Stephano
3. Huk
4. Naniwa
5. Ret
6. Puma
7. Dimaga
8. Grubby
There are probably other Koreans who are even more deserving, plus the complications with the up/down matches and who might not even be code S. Violet? he's had excellent results lately. MKP.
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I do think the Code S seed might be a little too generous, seeing as players who won't succeed in GSL are allowed over people who are more deserving. I think a Code A seed is more reasonable, seeing as it allows players to show off their talent without the hype and stress that comes with Code S. Would love to see Polt or Violet gain the seed, seeing as both have proven themselves recently, and foreigners haven't been as dominant in 2012 so far.
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Iceland94 Posts
On February 28 2012 09:12 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:47 YourOldBuddy wrote:
Of the foreigners... (well the western ones)....
Stephano (can beat anyone, loose to anyone)
Naniwa (just beat Leenock and Nestea)
Sase (has pedigree and plays beautiful matches, see Winter MLG, vs SAN)
Morrow (won Ryung in up and down matches)
The Swedes haven't impressed at the GSL but after Stephano i think they are still the best chance. Stephano is so inconsistent that it might be best to have Sase have a go. He hasn't done so badly and he plays fun matches. Naniwa has a bad record in total number of wins at the GSL but a large part was very very close and might get better with Protoss bumps. Naniwa has also won MVP and other respected Koreans in the past.
I had a number of other players on the list. Thorzain is slumping. Huk's best win at MLG was Ret and truth be told I think Ret might still have a better chance at GSL. Sheth has pedigree like Huk and has looked really impressive lately. Naama has posted a few very nice games from Korea. I don't know if he is just posting winning games but they look very promising and he has won Dreamhack. Dimaga, Nerchio or Mana?
Why do you think Stephano is inconsistent? Yeah he didnt get past ro16 in HSC4 must be on a slump. Sase hasn't gone past ro16 in any of the LAN tournaments he has entered. Naniwa seems to do well outside of Korea but 0-10 in GSL speaks volumes. HuK has done well in GSL and also performs well outside of korea. From those 4 i'd pick Stephano any day in their current forms.
Dreamhack Winter 2011 isn't that far back f.ex. Stephano didn't just loose. He seemed a bit lost.
Sase has been showing ever increasing potential. He is training in Korea has been showing a lot of potential.
Naniwa's 0-10 doesn't speak volumes. Those where drone rushes, very close losses and bad luck with matchups. His multiple wins over top Koreans in and out of Korea are not in that number. Taking that number as representative for his stay is dumb.
Huk hasn't performed lately outside of his run at the MLG. He did win Oz and Ret but he hasn't been pulling the wins Naniwa has.
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I feel like it should be incentivized for foreign players to come over to Korean, long term, and work their way up through code B, A, and then, eventually, into S. I understand from a business point of view it makes sense to simply seed popular players into the top tournament, but under that system you never really know what you are going to get. The players could just bomb out. If someone like HuK or Idra made it all the way out of code B, into A, I would definitely buy a ticket because their chances of staying and providing a number of good games would be high. Same for foreigners working their way up to code S.
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Australia8532 Posts
To me it has to be between Polt Stephano and HuK; if i were making the decisions i would give it to Polt and Stephano. I really want Stephano to be motivated to spend some time in Korea, train hard and give Code S a real, genuine shot! His ability is definitely incredible (watch his assembly games) and in saying that - Polt 4-1ing him speaks volumes to his ability.
If they want increased viewership they will invite 2 foreigners and skip over Polt; but i think Polt's performance certainly warrants a spot.
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Polt deserves one no questions asked.
Naniwa would be cool for the second. Every korean's gonna tune in hoping he gets his ass kicked :D Though I don't think they've forgiven him quite enough to give him a code S spot yet.
Huk/Stephano are the two foreigners who would do the best in code S imo.
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Why don't you just make them play for it? Grab Polt, Huk, Stephano, and Naniwa and have them play a group stage together.
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Dude, Huk 2-0'd Oz in the Winter Arena. Oz is known for AMAZING PvP and he is in Code S. I am sorry Naniwa is not even fun to watch, he is aweful comparably to every other Protoss that would be capable if not considered for a GSL Spot.
HuK needs to be given another shot in Code A. PLEASE GOMTV!
And whoever said Stephano is better than HuK that is debatable. Huk is probably (currently the best foreigner, he has done several good GSL runs, and on top of that performs well against almost every single Korean (good korean) pros I have seen recently, he is more than capable. However, I would like to see Stephano have an attempt (especially over Idra, I am sorry I cannot stand watching that bad mannered punk anymore, it isnt even funny anymore).
BTW, no bias here, I am a Terran player. (Lol, I know FML)
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On February 28 2012 05:33 blizzind wrote:
Huk should definitely not be in code s. If any foreigner should be in code s it would be naniwa or stephano. Naniwa he has consistent winnings against some of the best players in the world. Huk having the easiest path in mlg winter was a big part of his 3rd place. You could see how once he started to face world class players he completely fell apart.
Exacytly Naniwa knocked down Nestea and Leenock (in his worst match up and their good match ups)
Tbh, Naniwa is my best foreigner at this tournament...
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Get Nani back plz, the guy can't play code A b/c he's belong to code S lol. j/k
Polt is guaranteed a spot for sure imo. Then it could be between Huk and Stephano depend on if Stephano want to go or not.
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On February 28 2012 10:23 Mystgun wrote:
Why don't you just make them play for it? Grab Polt, Huk, Stephano, and Naniwa and have them play a group stage together.
shit, this actually is a fucking genius idea lololol
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Polt needs this seed.
Also the manner mule thingie at the end by fishuu is sooooooooooooo cuuuuuuuuuuuuute <3
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Polt and Huk shouldn't get seeds specifically because they just dropped out of the GSL. Failure shouldn't be rewarded, and players shouldn't be given a free, immediate safety net because of performance elsewhere. Naniwa is an ok choice, but he's had his shots and the probe rush thing should play a role in his candidacy.
So who?
Stephano is obvious if he's willing. He's the only non-Huk foreigner that has shown any ability to beat Koreans, and the Koreans themselves seem to respect his game. His popularity is on the rise.
But how about Puma? No one likes him and he's not a foreigner, so it isn't going to happen, but is there a better candidate? He's a guy that can't seem to qualify the regular way, but he routinely places high in just about every foreign tournament under the sun. So he has a vast resume, doesn't have GSL experience, and absolutely has both the talent and (now) the experience to advance in tournament. The whole seed idea seems tailor made for his circumstances.
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EPT
