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On October 02 2010 14:26 OptimoPeach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 14:21 Moonloop wrote:
Sorry for the noob question but ... how do I watch this? Am I able to, or did you have to purchase something to view the games?
Speaking of the games, I have no idea who to cheer for. Maybe I'll just view it unbiased and enjoy the game without cheering for one player over the other. I believe there's a free live stream on gomtv.net, but the quality is kinda poor. Otherwise you can pay $20 there for access to the higher quality stream and all of the VODs. You can also just wait for them to inevitably make their way to YouTube
Ah, awesome. I'll check it out now - thanks.
I'll probably just view it in sub-par quality. Doesn't matter if I can't make out the shiny details, as long as I can see what's going on.
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Iam rooting for Cool 100% and after his 3-0 hes got a good shot at rainbow in ZVT
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he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP)
This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with
1) Reapers
2) Hellion drops
3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp.
4) Stim marauder drops
5) Cloaked Banshees
6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo
7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate)
8) Raven timing all ins
9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs
Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options.
TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".
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TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".
Yeah like 4 warp gate? Real defensive opening right there :x
I disagree with just about everything you said. Terran don't have any gimmicks, and that's ALL toss has. If you scout my base and I'm playing T, guess what, I'm building an army and it's going to be either mech, bio, or a mix. whoopdeedoo.
However, as toss, it's pretty normal to proxy some building, or hid some critical tech structure, just so later you can go "hah, i got you, you didn't have X" x being detection, or anti-air or something stupid. that's what a gimmick is, and toss are the kings.
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I've been cheering for Rainbow since this whole thing began and we found out he was in the tourney. He's honestly the most talented SC2 player I've seen, he's on a whole other level from these other competitors.
He's been dismissed as being a micro-only player by many others "all he's GOT is micro!" - Idra
but in his wins over Ensnare, he literally couldn't have used a strategy that was any more macro oriented (no gas, rax, straight into expansion command center with protective bunker).
It's nice that everyone's talking up fruit dealer, but that's all anyone is doing. I'd like to see more stuff on rainbow. It'd be worth a read since all we're seeing from various sites atm is the same perspective: "look at fruit dealer. He's in the finals and.. hes ZERG!" Don't get me wrong, hes a great player and its pretty cool (pun intended) but when it comes down to the finals a preview should really showcase the players and what they're like rather than being a blurb on race choice.
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On October 02 2010 12:03 pencilcase wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 11:42 Ocedic wrote:
Besides Tester, is there even another Korean Protoss who is on level with the best Western Protoss players? I honestly think Korean Protoss as a whole are a step below their Western counterparts, which explains the dismal showing at GSL1. I guess the question will be answered in GSL2 when HuK shows up. Huk lost to Artosis in the IEM, who wass eliminated in the Round of 64 in the GSL. The second place finisher Idra, also lost to a Mid-level Protoss in the Round of 32. Not direct evidence, but the results do provide some insight nonetheless.
Huk would be the first to say himself that he played like ass at IEM in his first major online tourney. Also, he's a very new new new pro gamer and he has learned a TON since then. If you're going to discuss his IEM results then it's only fair to include his MLG results, a more recent event that he had the previous lan's experience from to draw on where he placed first. He has great work ethic and dedication, always focusing on getting better, the kind of attitude more people need to adopt if they want to improve. I personally am very excited to see how huk does in the GSL.
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A little embarrassing that an interesting article was so marred by extremely biased balance talk that was little more than thinly veiled whining.
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I wonder if rainbow will try, at least in one game, outmacroing cool by opening 17cc no harass, just like he played against ensnare.
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On October 02 2010 11:42 Ocedic wrote:
Besides Tester, is there even another Korean Protoss who is on level with the best Western Protoss players? I honestly think Korean Protoss as a whole are a step below their Western counterparts, which explains the dismal showing at GSL1. I guess the question will be answered in GSL2 when HuK shows up.
oGs Inca - don't let his loss to Cool fool you, he's just right behind Tester in a lot of ways.
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Liking these recaps. ^^
I missed ITR's ro64 match-up because I didn't realize he was ITR. But when I saw him play in the ro32, he instantly became my favorite for the tournament. In spite of minor mistakes, everything about his play feels rock solid, zero holes. Tastosis kept talking about his BW reputation, and I myself had been judging him according to his play in King of the Beta, but all that has to be forgotten. His play this tournament has been as consistent as it has been varied. I couldn't believe how easy he made his games against Check and Tester look (two other players who I have been really impressed with). I would not be surprised if he dominates Fruit Dealer.
However, after the semi-finals, I have come around to Fruit Dealer. I was unsure about him because of his all-ins (I was not a fan of the 6-pool D: ), but his games against LiveForever convinced me that he is as solid a Zerg as can be played right now. I do not know if he is good enough to take out ITR, but this is going to be an awesome finals match. ^_^
I don't much like the talk of "balance" in the OP and think it is wrong to pull stats to measure balance from this tournament. I also think it is bm to say that some players got as far as they did in the tournament on the strengths of their race alone. While the mechanics of Zerg are not as smooth as Terran or Protoss, good play is good play regardless of race. Watching ITR, Tester, or Fruit Dealer, one can easily see that they understand SC and their race better than the majority of their opponents. Let's leave wins and losses according to the merits of the players and circumstances of the game (as in Idra getting beaten by a lesser opponent due to critical, circumstantial mistakes) rather than to something as complex and obscure as "balance".
Finally, my thoughts on the balance issue in relation to the finals: I feel like Terran is the most strategically "developed" race so far, and that Terran players have experimented with and learned their possibilities better than the other races. Zerg feels like the least developed, probably because of imperfect game mechanics and because Zerg is harder to play (from an apm standpoint, they take longer to learn and perfect). That said, I feel I finally caught a glimpse of Zerg's true power in Fruit Dealer's semi finals -- he seems to be one of the few to be playing Zerg the way they are "supposed to be played." Fruit Dealer really understands Z's advantages -- mobility and macro -- and knows how to abuse them. LiveForever looked nearly helpless in his matches. Poor guy.
Anyway, a little over an hour left. :D
Not rooting for either player, as both are amazing and the better player will win. Right now, I think ITR has the advantage, but it would please me if Fruit Dealer proved me wrong. ^^
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So now it's getting hard to read just the features on TL because of the asinine balance whining. BARRRFFFFFF give it up already jesus christ. (I play random btw and am very happy with the balance of the game, AND I'm rooting for Cool because he is so boss). It's completely amateur to base racial balance on results from one tournament, worse than Blizzard saying the game is balanced by virtue of ladder stats.
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cool has a few factors helping him
ITR played nothing but TvT and TvP for the last few matches and he had no time to really prepare.
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This is the finals I was hoping for!
I really like both players, and will be happy whatever the outcome (as long as the matches are good), but I must say that I'm rooting for Cool... even though I'm a Terran player myself. >_>
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well because i played zerg in beta im going for cool!
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Go Rainbow!!
Zerg noobs are going down 
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If he were against oGs Top or Inca or someone, I'd be all for Cool. He's been one of my favourite players in the tournament, and I've been hoping for him to get this far the whole time(from the beginning of the round of 64 on). But that whole time, I've been wanting IntoTheRainbow to win. In fact, all month, I've been predicting ITR>Cool for the final. So, Cool, I love you, and you've done a brilliant job representing Zerg(which I play, for the record). Regardless, I'm betting on ITR for the final.
GO RAINBOW
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On October 02 2010 15:31 kirkybaby wrote:Show nested quote +TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled". Yeah like 4 warp gate? Real defensive opening right there :x I disagree with just about everything you said. Terran don't have any gimmicks, and that's ALL toss has. If you scout my base and I'm playing T, guess what, I'm building an army and it's going to be either mech, bio, or a mix. whoopdeedoo. However, as toss, it's pretty normal to proxy some building, or hid some critical tech structure, just so later you can go "hah, i got you, you didn't have X" x being detection, or anti-air or something stupid. that's what a gimmick is, and toss are the kings.
4 Gate perhaps works against terran at your silver level play. Have fun being in silver.
Seriously, I wrote an entire page and all you could say was lolol 4 warpgate and lolol proxy tech.
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Temple of EE-Sama22510 Posts
On October 02 2010 14:50 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP) This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with 1) Reapers 2) Hellion drops 3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp. 4) Stim marauder drops 5) Cloaked Banshees 6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo 7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate) 8) Raven timing all ins 9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options. TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".
I was thinking specifically of the number of gross micro mistakes I saw in games than anything, had nothing to do with anything racially based.
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On October 02 2010 17:31 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 14:50 Piledriver wrote:he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP) This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with 1) Reapers 2) Hellion drops 3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp. 4) Stim marauder drops 5) Cloaked Banshees 6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo 7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate) 8) Raven timing all ins 9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options. TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled". I was thinking specifically of the number of gross micro mistakes I saw in games than anything, had nothing to do with anything racially based.
I really agree with you here. In most TvPz, I did not see a really good P. Appart for inca and tester, mot P in GSL were good, but far from top players.
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On October 02 2010 15:52 Sideburn wrote:
A little embarrassing that an interesting article was so marred by extremely biased balance talk that was little more than thinly veiled whining.
Well thats the topic of the month, and its true.
Thanks for these recaps and previews TL <3
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EPT
