• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:49
CEST 08:49
KST 15:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes76BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1385 users

[GSL] “Hivemind” - Finals Preview and SF Recap - Page 5

Forum Index > News
188 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Sarang
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia2363 Posts
October 02 2010 05:30 GMT
#81
On October 02 2010 14:26 OptimoPeach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2010 14:21 Moonloop wrote:
Sorry for the noob question but ... how do I watch this? Am I able to, or did you have to purchase something to view the games?

Speaking of the games, I have no idea who to cheer for. Maybe I'll just view it unbiased and enjoy the game without cheering for one player over the other.

I believe there's a free live stream on gomtv.net, but the quality is kinda poor. Otherwise you can pay $20 there for access to the higher quality stream and all of the VODs.

You can also just wait for them to inevitably make their way to YouTube


Ah, awesome. I'll check it out now - thanks.

I'll probably just view it in sub-par quality. Doesn't matter if I can't make out the shiny details, as long as I can see what's going on.


"Killer helped me feel better before coming to the arena. He told me to say that." - Bomber
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
October 02 2010 05:44 GMT
#82
Iam rooting for Cool 100% and after his 3-0 hes got a good shot at rainbow in ZVT
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
Piledriver
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1697 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-02 05:56:32
October 02 2010 05:50 GMT
#83
he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP)



This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with

1) Reapers
2) Hellion drops
3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp.
4) Stim marauder drops
5) Cloaked Banshees
6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo
7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate)
8) Raven timing all ins
9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs

Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options.

TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".

Envy fan since NTH.
kirkybaby
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)781 Posts
October 02 2010 06:31 GMT
#84
TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".


Yeah like 4 warp gate? Real defensive opening right there :x

I disagree with just about everything you said. Terran don't have any gimmicks, and that's ALL toss has. If you scout my base and I'm playing T, guess what, I'm building an army and it's going to be either mech, bio, or a mix. whoopdeedoo.

However, as toss, it's pretty normal to proxy some building, or hid some critical tech structure, just so later you can go "hah, i got you, you didn't have X" x being detection, or anti-air or something stupid. that's what a gimmick is, and toss are the kings.
tournament history: 512th place in Altitude TLOpen #1
Energin
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada89 Posts
October 02 2010 06:32 GMT
#85
I've been cheering for Rainbow since this whole thing began and we found out he was in the tourney. He's honestly the most talented SC2 player I've seen, he's on a whole other level from these other competitors.

He's been dismissed as being a micro-only player by many others "all he's GOT is micro!" - Idra

but in his wins over Ensnare, he literally couldn't have used a strategy that was any more macro oriented (no gas, rax, straight into expansion command center with protective bunker).

It's nice that everyone's talking up fruit dealer, but that's all anyone is doing. I'd like to see more stuff on rainbow. It'd be worth a read since all we're seeing from various sites atm is the same perspective: "look at fruit dealer. He's in the finals and.. hes ZERG!" Don't get me wrong, hes a great player and its pretty cool (pun intended) but when it comes down to the finals a preview should really showcase the players and what they're like rather than being a blurb on race choice.
timrikwideue!
Energin
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada89 Posts
October 02 2010 06:43 GMT
#86
On October 02 2010 12:03 pencilcase wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2010 11:42 Ocedic wrote:
Besides Tester, is there even another Korean Protoss who is on level with the best Western Protoss players? I honestly think Korean Protoss as a whole are a step below their Western counterparts, which explains the dismal showing at GSL1. I guess the question will be answered in GSL2 when HuK shows up.

Huk lost to Artosis in the IEM, who wass eliminated in the Round of 64 in the GSL. The second place finisher Idra, also lost to a Mid-level Protoss in the Round of 32. Not direct evidence, but the results do provide some insight nonetheless.



Huk would be the first to say himself that he played like ass at IEM in his first major online tourney. Also, he's a very new new new pro gamer and he has learned a TON since then. If you're going to discuss his IEM results then it's only fair to include his MLG results, a more recent event that he had the previous lan's experience from to draw on where he placed first. He has great work ethic and dedication, always focusing on getting better, the kind of attitude more people need to adopt if they want to improve. I personally am very excited to see how huk does in the GSL.
timrikwideue!
Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
October 02 2010 06:52 GMT
#87
A little embarrassing that an interesting article was so marred by extremely biased balance talk that was little more than thinly veiled whining.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
October 02 2010 07:02 GMT
#88
I wonder if rainbow will try, at least in one game, outmacroing cool by opening 17cc no harass, just like he played against ensnare.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 02 2010 07:13 GMT
#89
On October 02 2010 11:42 Ocedic wrote:
Besides Tester, is there even another Korean Protoss who is on level with the best Western Protoss players? I honestly think Korean Protoss as a whole are a step below their Western counterparts, which explains the dismal showing at GSL1. I guess the question will be answered in GSL2 when HuK shows up.


oGs Inca - don't let his loss to Cool fool you, he's just right behind Tester in a lot of ways.
Yargh
mangoloid
Profile Joined September 2010
100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-02 07:21:48
October 02 2010 07:21 GMT
#90
Liking these recaps. ^^

I missed ITR's ro64 match-up because I didn't realize he was ITR. But when I saw him play in the ro32, he instantly became my favorite for the tournament. In spite of minor mistakes, everything about his play feels rock solid, zero holes. Tastosis kept talking about his BW reputation, and I myself had been judging him according to his play in King of the Beta, but all that has to be forgotten. His play this tournament has been as consistent as it has been varied. I couldn't believe how easy he made his games against Check and Tester look (two other players who I have been really impressed with). I would not be surprised if he dominates Fruit Dealer.

However, after the semi-finals, I have come around to Fruit Dealer. I was unsure about him because of his all-ins (I was not a fan of the 6-pool D: ), but his games against LiveForever convinced me that he is as solid a Zerg as can be played right now. I do not know if he is good enough to take out ITR, but this is going to be an awesome finals match. ^_^

I don't much like the talk of "balance" in the OP and think it is wrong to pull stats to measure balance from this tournament. I also think it is bm to say that some players got as far as they did in the tournament on the strengths of their race alone. While the mechanics of Zerg are not as smooth as Terran or Protoss, good play is good play regardless of race. Watching ITR, Tester, or Fruit Dealer, one can easily see that they understand SC and their race better than the majority of their opponents. Let's leave wins and losses according to the merits of the players and circumstances of the game (as in Idra getting beaten by a lesser opponent due to critical, circumstantial mistakes) rather than to something as complex and obscure as "balance".

Finally, my thoughts on the balance issue in relation to the finals: I feel like Terran is the most strategically "developed" race so far, and that Terran players have experimented with and learned their possibilities better than the other races. Zerg feels like the least developed, probably because of imperfect game mechanics and because Zerg is harder to play (from an apm standpoint, they take longer to learn and perfect). That said, I feel I finally caught a glimpse of Zerg's true power in Fruit Dealer's semi finals -- he seems to be one of the few to be playing Zerg the way they are "supposed to be played." Fruit Dealer really understands Z's advantages -- mobility and macro -- and knows how to abuse them. LiveForever looked nearly helpless in his matches. Poor guy.

Anyway, a little over an hour left. :D
Not rooting for either player, as both are amazing and the better player will win. Right now, I think ITR has the advantage, but it would please me if Fruit Dealer proved me wrong. ^^
tyrless
Profile Joined July 2010
United States485 Posts
October 02 2010 07:24 GMT
#91
So now it's getting hard to read just the features on TL because of the asinine balance whining. BARRRFFFFFF give it up already jesus christ. (I play random btw and am very happy with the balance of the game, AND I'm rooting for Cool because he is so boss). It's completely amateur to base racial balance on results from one tournament, worse than Blizzard saying the game is balanced by virtue of ladder stats.
Zeroes
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
October 02 2010 07:37 GMT
#92
cool has a few factors helping him

ITR played nothing but TvT and TvP for the last few matches and he had no time to really prepare.
Check out my SC Lan pics Here: http://picasaweb.google.com/bunk.habit
Elevators
Profile Joined March 2010
United States56 Posts
October 02 2010 07:44 GMT
#93
This is the finals I was hoping for!

I really like both players, and will be happy whatever the outcome (as long as the matches are good), but I must say that I'm rooting for Cool... even though I'm a Terran player myself. >_>
Elevators can never be broken. They can only become stairs... wait, that's escalators! SHIT!!!
eSen1a
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia1058 Posts
October 02 2010 07:44 GMT
#94
well because i played zerg in beta im going for cool!
David Dark
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland100 Posts
October 02 2010 08:09 GMT
#95
Go Rainbow!!

Zerg noobs are going down
Hey dude, nice shot.
Phayt
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada346 Posts
October 02 2010 08:25 GMT
#96
If he were against oGs Top or Inca or someone, I'd be all for Cool. He's been one of my favourite players in the tournament, and I've been hoping for him to get this far the whole time(from the beginning of the round of 64 on). But that whole time, I've been wanting IntoTheRainbow to win. In fact, all month, I've been predicting ITR>Cool for the final. So, Cool, I love you, and you've done a brilliant job representing Zerg(which I play, for the record). Regardless, I'm betting on ITR for the final.


GO RAINBOW
Piledriver
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1697 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-02 08:32:03
October 02 2010 08:30 GMT
#97
On October 02 2010 15:31 kirkybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".


Yeah like 4 warp gate? Real defensive opening right there :x

I disagree with just about everything you said. Terran don't have any gimmicks, and that's ALL toss has. If you scout my base and I'm playing T, guess what, I'm building an army and it's going to be either mech, bio, or a mix. whoopdeedoo.

However, as toss, it's pretty normal to proxy some building, or hid some critical tech structure, just so later you can go "hah, i got you, you didn't have X" x being detection, or anti-air or something stupid. that's what a gimmick is, and toss are the kings.



4 Gate perhaps works against terran at your silver level play. Have fun being in silver.

Seriously, I wrote an entire page and all you could say was lolol 4 warpgate and lolol proxy tech.
Envy fan since NTH.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 02 2010 08:31 GMT
#98
On October 02 2010 14:50 Piledriver wrote:
Show nested quote +
he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP)



This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with

1) Reapers
2) Hellion drops
3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp.
4) Stim marauder drops
5) Cloaked Banshees
6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo
7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate)
8) Raven timing all ins
9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs

Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options.

TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".




I was thinking specifically of the number of gross micro mistakes I saw in games than anything, had nothing to do with anything racially based.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
October 02 2010 08:36 GMT
#99
On October 02 2010 17:31 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2010 14:50 Piledriver wrote:
he PvT or TvZ numbers on their own look like a disaster, but I can't help but feel like while watching many of those games the Terrans playing were simply stronger players than their Zerg or Protoss opponents (this is particularly true with TvP)



This is simply a retarded statement. The truth of the matter is, the race mechanics of terran make its player seem better than they actually are. They have a hundred different bag of tricks which they are free to use even and more importantly are not all in. For instance here is a short list of things which I came up with

1) Reapers
2) Hellion drops
3) Floating factory threatening hellion drops with 3 rax pressure at ramp.
4) Stim marauder drops
5) Cloaked Banshees
6) Multiple pronged drops at main and expo
7) Battlecruiser timing all ins (doesnt take much skill, but looks awesome to spectate)
8) Raven timing all ins
9) Thor pushes with multiple scvs

Granted that these take a certain amount of skill to use, but honestly Toss dont have these gimmicks which makes their play seem very passive and defensive and not "skilled". The few gimmicks that they have are all by default all in, with very little room for failure. If a P does a void ray opening or DT opening, and it doesnt go well, he has basically lost the game right there. A T has bazillion more options, and the Toss is FORCED to go down the robot tech route just to scout and play reactively to these options.

TLDR: Terrans are not magically more skilled than toss - the variety of strategies in their playbook forces toss to play ultra defensive with robot openings and also they suffer from a lack of flashy, low cost harassing capabilities which makes their game look "low-skilled".




I was thinking specifically of the number of gross micro mistakes I saw in games than anything, had nothing to do with anything racially based.

I really agree with you here. In most TvPz, I did not see a really good P. Appart for inca and tester, mot P in GSL were good, but far from top players.
ZaaaaaM
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1828 Posts
October 02 2010 08:37 GMT
#100
On October 02 2010 15:52 Sideburn wrote:
A little embarrassing that an interesting article was so marred by extremely biased balance talk that was little more than thinly veiled whining.

Well thats the topic of the month, and its true.

Thanks for these recaps and previews TL <3
no dude, the question
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 166
ProTech74
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 1000
soO 43
Sacsri 20
HiyA 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
SilentControl 6
NotJumperer 1
League of Legends
JimRising 626
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K643
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King50
Westballz24
Other Games
summit1g7812
C9.Mang0349
Hui .227
byalli172
NeuroSwarm71
Trikslyr23
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• Sammyuel 24
• Light_VIP 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 11m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
4h 11m
Korean StarCraft League
20h 11m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.