• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:59
CEST 15:59
KST 22:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League19Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1205.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7134 users

[GSL] “Hivemind” - Finals Preview and SF Recap - Page 10

Forum Index > News
188 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Lotar
Profile Joined September 2010
132 Posts
October 04 2010 06:13 GMT
#181
On October 03 2010 05:42 Craixs wrote:
Lol it is not fair to just take out cool in the racial statistisks then take out some other players to make it look good lol
It makes perfect sense to remove the top two players from the statistics. In theory, you'd have to remove the bottom two as well, but you can't do that for an elimination tournament.
SlayerOfYou
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
58 Posts
October 04 2010 14:46 GMT
#182
On October 04 2010 13:04 Wayra wrote:
too much racial balance talk...can't you just write about the games?


I agree, it sounds like the writer is clearly a jaedong/fruit fan, not saying im not but i believe the game is nearly balanced. I feel like half the reason people claim OP is because they have hopped on the idra band wagon for making excuses of why they r losing. Also in his game against silver on lost temple i think it is just retarded to say imbalance on a map like that, the ledge on that map near the natural expansions have always been abused by players, either by cannon cliffing or lurk/tank drops. So it should just be expected, i mean wasnt that the whole reason people changed from LT to Luna anyway?
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
October 04 2010 17:01 GMT
#183
there is no "fruitDealer style" of Z. He clearly gambled on adjusting his builds to his opponents by good preparation, you can't do that on ladder. A lot of his openings would have been crushed if his opponents where somewhat unpredictable.
21 is half the truth
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-04 17:02:17
October 04 2010 17:01 GMT
#184
On October 04 2010 13:04 Wayra wrote:
too much racial balance talk...can't you just write about the games?

I could have done that, but ignoring one of the larger storylines of the finals is a disservice to fans. Whether or not the game is balanced can be argued, but I believe pretending the discussion doesn't exist is irresponsible.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-04 17:56:43
October 04 2010 17:55 GMT
#185
There's a serious problem with this in one way.
It overlaps two patches.

It would be interesting (although not necessarily accurate due to a smaller playerbase/number of games) to do pre-patch vs post-patch statistics.
Because some games were played after the changes, overall statistics don't help much when the patch(es) changed things by buffing/nerfing various units. (Also Desert Oasis even though it was only played 4 times).

GSL2 will be more accurate assuming there are no more balance patches mid-way through competition.

(On the patch changing things, one example would by AugustWeRRa's rush to BCs. Not quite so viable post-BC nerf).
HOLY CHECK!
The Dice
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany5 Posts
October 04 2010 20:22 GMT
#186
How to proof Zerg is UP:
First you wanna take a look at an important tournament.
All matchups except PvT seem to be pretty fine. And after all T OP, Z fine and P UP. Hmm didnt work.
Nevermind, lets just remove the best T and best Z. Hey P is fine and Z UP. Well done.
One might argue that there wasnt a dominating P that was worth remove. But, maybe Toss is just to UP for a P to do well.

I do not want to say Zerg is fine or Protoss UP. (T is OP tho :/ )
However you cant just leave two players out and then judge the outcome.
shiftY803
Profile Joined April 2010
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-05 18:23:44
October 05 2010 18:21 GMT
#187
I liked his look at the numbers even if they aren't statistically significant yet. I am going to come right out and say that I believe Terran is overpowered at the pro level, but that isn't based on hard data. That is more of an opinion than anything else. Time will tell.

In any case, math is sort of what I do for a living (statistics). I would say that the main thing one can take from the tournament is that the game's balance isn't too bad at the pro level. The main reason I say this is that outliers such as Cool exist at all. Unless his skill is just far and away better than everyone else (hard to judge this, of course), his 11-1 record could be showing that the game is not so unbalanced that it cannot be overcome with skill. If the numbers eventually prove the alleged Terran imba, blizzard will obviously need to do something. Forcing one race to have more skill to be on an even footing with another would not be a fair situation when $$$ is on the line.

Back in War3 days, there was a time when a properly played NE literally could not lose to Orc, no matter how good they were. We don't have that situation here, and kudos to Blizzard for arriving at such a balanced state so quickly.
live without appeal. ~ camus
Gruntt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
October 06 2010 07:09 GMT
#188
I think fruitdealer is so good that maybe he needs to apologize for playing his race!

Gruntt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
October 06 2010 07:23 GMT
#189
it's clear that early and correctly played ling/roach just beats back protoss gateway units.

and sorry terran... u have to make units from your barracks.... and yes... zerg will always have banelings
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
20:00
WardiTV Not-Summer Championshi
ByuN vs SHIN
ByuN vs herO
SHIN vs herO
WardiTV1017
IntoTheiNu 959
TaKeTV 330
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
19:00
Master Swan Open #108 (SHIN Mod Edition)
CranKy Ducklings70
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko447
ByuN 378
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34703
Soulkey 4104
Horang2 1034
Shuttle 959
Larva 709
FanTaSy 677
Rush 413
Mini 337
BeSt 317
Hyun 289
[ Show more ]
actioN 285
firebathero 149
Zeus 106
Last 79
Mind 74
910 51
Bishop 50
HiyA 40
Aegong 36
ToSsGirL 28
scan(afreeca) 23
Free 17
soO 16
yabsab 16
Rock 11
Sacsri 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Icarus 5
Dota 2
qojqva1520
Dendi1257
syndereN263
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
byalli803
zeus353
fl0m58
Other Games
singsing2496
B2W.Neo1144
Beastyqt460
Mlord407
Khaldor277
Pyrionflax272
crisheroes220
DeMusliM201
Chillindude17
MindelVK13
KnowMe8
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• Adnapsc2 5
• Response 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3317
League of Legends
• Nemesis4109
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
2h 1m
BSL Open Qualifier
5h 1m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 1m
OSC
23h 1m
IPSL
1d 2h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 5h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 21h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.