• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:03
CEST 08:03
KST 15:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Recent recommended BW games Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6000 users

[GSL] “Hivemind” - Finals Preview and SF Recap - Page 10

Forum Index > News
188 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Lotar
Profile Joined September 2010
132 Posts
October 04 2010 06:13 GMT
#181
On October 03 2010 05:42 Craixs wrote:
Lol it is not fair to just take out cool in the racial statistisks then take out some other players to make it look good lol
It makes perfect sense to remove the top two players from the statistics. In theory, you'd have to remove the bottom two as well, but you can't do that for an elimination tournament.
SlayerOfYou
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
58 Posts
October 04 2010 14:46 GMT
#182
On October 04 2010 13:04 Wayra wrote:
too much racial balance talk...can't you just write about the games?


I agree, it sounds like the writer is clearly a jaedong/fruit fan, not saying im not but i believe the game is nearly balanced. I feel like half the reason people claim OP is because they have hopped on the idra band wagon for making excuses of why they r losing. Also in his game against silver on lost temple i think it is just retarded to say imbalance on a map like that, the ledge on that map near the natural expansions have always been abused by players, either by cannon cliffing or lurk/tank drops. So it should just be expected, i mean wasnt that the whole reason people changed from LT to Luna anyway?
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
October 04 2010 17:01 GMT
#183
there is no "fruitDealer style" of Z. He clearly gambled on adjusting his builds to his opponents by good preparation, you can't do that on ladder. A lot of his openings would have been crushed if his opponents where somewhat unpredictable.
21 is half the truth
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-04 17:02:17
October 04 2010 17:01 GMT
#184
On October 04 2010 13:04 Wayra wrote:
too much racial balance talk...can't you just write about the games?

I could have done that, but ignoring one of the larger storylines of the finals is a disservice to fans. Whether or not the game is balanced can be argued, but I believe pretending the discussion doesn't exist is irresponsible.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-04 17:56:43
October 04 2010 17:55 GMT
#185
There's a serious problem with this in one way.
It overlaps two patches.

It would be interesting (although not necessarily accurate due to a smaller playerbase/number of games) to do pre-patch vs post-patch statistics.
Because some games were played after the changes, overall statistics don't help much when the patch(es) changed things by buffing/nerfing various units. (Also Desert Oasis even though it was only played 4 times).

GSL2 will be more accurate assuming there are no more balance patches mid-way through competition.

(On the patch changing things, one example would by AugustWeRRa's rush to BCs. Not quite so viable post-BC nerf).
HOLY CHECK!
The Dice
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany5 Posts
October 04 2010 20:22 GMT
#186
How to proof Zerg is UP:
First you wanna take a look at an important tournament.
All matchups except PvT seem to be pretty fine. And after all T OP, Z fine and P UP. Hmm didnt work.
Nevermind, lets just remove the best T and best Z. Hey P is fine and Z UP. Well done.
One might argue that there wasnt a dominating P that was worth remove. But, maybe Toss is just to UP for a P to do well.

I do not want to say Zerg is fine or Protoss UP. (T is OP tho :/ )
However you cant just leave two players out and then judge the outcome.
shiftY803
Profile Joined April 2010
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-05 18:23:44
October 05 2010 18:21 GMT
#187
I liked his look at the numbers even if they aren't statistically significant yet. I am going to come right out and say that I believe Terran is overpowered at the pro level, but that isn't based on hard data. That is more of an opinion than anything else. Time will tell.

In any case, math is sort of what I do for a living (statistics). I would say that the main thing one can take from the tournament is that the game's balance isn't too bad at the pro level. The main reason I say this is that outliers such as Cool exist at all. Unless his skill is just far and away better than everyone else (hard to judge this, of course), his 11-1 record could be showing that the game is not so unbalanced that it cannot be overcome with skill. If the numbers eventually prove the alleged Terran imba, blizzard will obviously need to do something. Forcing one race to have more skill to be on an even footing with another would not be a fair situation when $$$ is on the line.

Back in War3 days, there was a time when a properly played NE literally could not lose to Orc, no matter how good they were. We don't have that situation here, and kudos to Blizzard for arriving at such a balanced state so quickly.
live without appeal. ~ camus
Gruntt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
October 06 2010 07:09 GMT
#188
I think fruitdealer is so good that maybe he needs to apologize for playing his race!

Gruntt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
October 06 2010 07:23 GMT
#189
it's clear that early and correctly played ling/roach just beats back protoss gateway units.

and sorry terran... u have to make units from your barracks.... and yes... zerg will always have banelings
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Masters #7
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:00
FSL s11 code B championship
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft661
Nina 100
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 7772
Sharp 119
Mind 101
Bale 81
sSak 52
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm194
LuMiX2
League of Legends
JimRising 655
Counter-Strike
summit1g7809
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King105
Other Games
C9.Mang0338
m0e_tv167
ROOTCatZ107
Livibee57
amsayoshi38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick724
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH203
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2148
League of Legends
• Lourlo1088
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
2h 58m
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
11h 58m
Ladder Legends
13h 58m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
OSC
1d 6h
OSC
1d 17h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The Patches Monday
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.