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On August 07 2010 16:05 G3nXsiS wrote:
So my question is, release the dates and tell me when the stream is and I will be there lol. But I really hope that starcraft 2 really grows. Again in order for them to do that they need starcraft 1 to die. Gom is really gonna have to pull something big in order to invoke interest into the game.
So, you're hoping that Starcraft Broodwar dies?
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Although it's popular to doubt the methods and motives of blizzard and Gom, from the new translation, this article seems to imply that they do know what they're doing, albeit wading around in uncharted waters. I really think they do care about the players, the scene, and the future.
The interview didn't say anything about the number of other cable networks that asked for partnership rights to broadcast SC2, it's comforting to know that they are out there, as well as sponsorships, actively trying to become a part of the scene.
I hope some of the foreign teams can sponsor some of their players to go to korea for the matches. Travel expenses are killer, but it would be a shame to have the tournament without some of the big names in the community not named Idra. Don't get me wrong, I hope Idra does the US proud, but there will be way more global viewership if foreigners get to be there and play.
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Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea.
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On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo)
making a new "kespa"?
monopolizing the league?
sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..
and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??
what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..
and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.
idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.
and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase ..
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I'm very moved by their motivation to change the living conditions of progamers in Korea. That always brought me down. 
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On August 10 2010 08:41 setzer wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea.
If Blizzard's "HEINOUS MOTIVES" cause gamers to earn more while doing less strenuous labor, being able to stay in school, and have options later in life outside of possibly coaching or casting then I say power to them.
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On August 10 2010 09:07 urashimakt wrote:I'm very moved by their motivation to change the living conditions of progamers in Korea. That always brought me down.
have you watched old boy?
progamers arent forced .. its not labor .. they have great living environments .. FREE FOOD ..
On August 10 2010 09:11 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 08:41 setzer wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea. If Blizzard's "HEINOUS MOTIVES" cause gamers to earn more while doing less strenuous labor, being able to stay in school, and have options later in life outside of possibly coaching or casting then I say power to them.
try to watch interviews of progamers, old boy, and after talk .. i dont see them doing forced labor ,, they play because they want to be there ..
you, sir, are poorly misinformed ..
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On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo) making a new "kespa"? monopolizing the league?
I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're introducing new arguments.
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..
and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??
what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..
You claim that BW is not gonna get hurt? You are whining about this hurting BW as en ESPORTS. Rather than disagreeing with me, your post confirms what I wrote.
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.
The BW ESPORTS scene has been very constant in size for at least a couple of years. there's the proleague, MSL en OSL. The number of teams has been the same since a long time. And outside of this world, sure there's tourneys and clans but it's very limited, money wise (which is a valid way to measure, even though you might want to disagree with that).
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.
Okay so now you change direction and say you're worried about IdrA?
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase ..
Every company involved in ESPORTS, every single one of them, is in it for the money. Either directly from sales related to ESPORTS itself, or as a form of advertisement, hopefully with net positive effect. That's what companies do, try to make a profit. For this to work, though, a game has to grab eyeballs and that's where the 'new and fresh' comes in. (Yes I still enjoy watching BW vods. But many people, 'regulars', have a strange aversion.)
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This whole thing is really rubbing me the wrong way..
- Have you thought about the requirement to be a progamer?
▲ There is no difference between amateur and progamer in GSL.
▶ There will only be one league in StarCraft II!
Gretech set the definition as a progamer as "a gamer that earns money in a league."
- Will StarCraft only have one major league?
▲ Blizzard and we decided that there will only be one league. If both stations want to broadcast it, we could make some changes, but as of now our goal is to have one major league. ... but right now, a player that gets eliminated on Wednesday may appear again on Thursday, and even if they get eliminated again, comes up on Proleague on Saturday. That's why the games seem less important, and the players have hard time focusing on the individual leagues. The fans are arguing about whether it's a good thing that they can see so many games or a bad thing since the progamers are being overworked. I think that can be solved if there is only one league, but more games are played in that league.
▶ We'll try hard to ensure the rights of the viewers
Gretech emphasized that they are not monopolizing broadcasting rights. They're only trying to make the StarCraft II League bigger through connections with other corporations.
This seems like a step back for current progamers. A progamer in Korea someone who passed the Courage test for a license, worked their way up from practice partner fodder, became contracted to a sponsored proteam and is then provided housing + food + salary. It is a status/position that while not honoured by many in society, is still something you work your butt off to attain.
Under GOM, anyone is a progamer simply because they have the potential to earn money by winning/placing top3 in a tournament. That 40 year old salary man you see walking down the street? Yo dawg he's a progamer on the weekends competing in GSL. This isn't likely to improve living conditions either (which as of right is really fucking good compared to the old days of Boxer etc.), the top players in SC2 will likely be the ones giving up their education to play all day, without the luxuries/amenities of a progaming team house environment. Back to the old days of amateurs eating ramen all day in a pcbang?
Thanks GOM, for ensuring the rights of the viewers, by killing off every other league to make one SC league, one SC2 league. Later proleague, apparently progamers are so overworked from playing in so many broadcasted games, not because of their insane practice schedules.
Gretech revealed that "there will only be one league for StarCraft II. We decided that after talking with Blizzard, it will be best if there is only one league for StarCraft II in Korea. Unless something big happens, GSL will represent StarCraft II in Korea."
And so much for Korean Air OS2L. :\
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On August 10 2010 17:44 Badjas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo) making a new "kespa"? monopolizing the league? I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're introducing new arguments. Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..
and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??
what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..
You claim that BW is not gonna get hurt? You are whining about this hurting BW as en ESPORTS. Rather than disagreeing with me, your post confirms what I wrote. Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.
The BW ESPORTS scene has been very constant in size for at least a couple of years. there's the proleague, MSL en OSL. The number of teams has been the same since a long time. And outside of this world, sure there's tourneys and clans but it's very limited, money wise (which is a valid way to measure, even though you might want to disagree with that). Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.
Okay so now you change direction and say you're worried about IdrA? Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase .. Every company involved in ESPORTS, every single one of them, is in it for the money. Either directly from sales related to ESPORTS itself, or as a form of advertisement, hopefully with net positive effect. That's what companies do, try to make a profit. For this to work, though, a game has to grab eyeballs and that's where the 'new and fresh' comes in. (Yes I still enjoy watching BW vods. But many people, 'regulars', have a strange aversion.)
new arguement?? here it is
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142743
2nd .. your point is actually valid if your point, from what i understand, is that "SC2 will become a successful game and it will take over BW because its popular .. its a great spectator sport", sure no problem there .. i would dig that but what i mean was blizzard forcing OGN/MBC to stop televising BW because THEY DONT WANT BW ANYMORE yet THE FANS STILL WANT IT .. its might be fun to play but its not a great spectator sport .. maybe because players are still amatuer but i have no beef with that .. i have beef with the companies TRY TO KILL SOMETHING MAJESTIC ..
3rd i couldn't care less about the foreign scene .. most are compose of upstarts who think they can do big with a fresh game and still get pawned by koreans .. some are great people .. BUT i really love the DotA scene especially chinese but thats another type of esport ..
4th Idra is just an example of a foreigner with balls .. him, and draco .. but im more focusing on idra because he switched to SC2 ..
5th the current companies sponsoring BW have clear intentions .. no hidden agenda .. giving out great games and getting payed in the process .. on the other hand, blizzard is killing something ..
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@aimaimaim
1st. I don't know how the monopoly on this is going to turn out. That's a matter of wait and see. There has been quite some badmouthing between blizzard and Kespa about legal matters. And there's the history of Kespa claiming rights regarding BW, which was a dubious move. Blizzard is making a move towards the ESPORTS scene with SC2 and has business interests in this, that is clear. It's up to them to shoot themselves in the foot or not.
2nd. That feels like paranoia to me. Blizzard is taking no action at all regarding BW and Kespa. That they are promoting SC2 in the way they do has an indirect effect on BW and you nor I know how big of an effect this will be. Like I said, there is no better way than to promote a game as an ESPORTS than by having an important tourney. A big prize pool means importance. Prestige as a measure of importance will come later when history has been established. You can't blame them for trying to promote SC2.
3rd. You are talking about SC growing. How else will it grow other than in the foreign scene? Korea is saturated.
4th. Blizzard doe snot pay IdrA for the switch. (okay, that's what I assume, maybe they did ;-) )
5th. euh.. sure. Companies are in it for a profit. As long as BW gets a good viewer rating, they'll be there. If companies have to choose between BW and SC2, for sponsoring, then indeed the appearance of SC2 can have an effect. I am not denying that. I would like to see Blizzard doing more than this Korean oriented tournament. All the while, I hope BW will keep on going as it is going.
The main issue I had with your original post was how you're talking down the tournament and people who are hyped up. I was responding with a reason behind the hype. And justifying/rationalizing Blizzard's move.
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On August 10 2010 21:49 Badjas wrote:
@aimaimaim
1st. I don't know how the monopoly on this is going to turn out. That's a matter of wait and see. There has been quite some badmouthing between blizzard and Kespa about legal matters. And there's the history of Kespa claiming rights regarding BW, which was a dubious move. Blizzard is making a move towards the ESPORTS scene with SC2 and has business interests in this, that is clear. It's up to them to shoot themselves in the foot or not.
2nd. That feels like paranoia to me. Blizzard is taking no action at all regarding BW and Kespa. That they are promoting SC2 in the way they do has an indirect effect on BW and you nor I know how big of an effect this will be. Like I said, there is no better way than to promote a game as an ESPORTS than by having an important tourney. A big prize pool means importance. Prestige as a measure of importance will come later when history has been established. You can't blame them for trying to promote SC2.
3rd. You are talking about SC growing. How else will it grow other than in the foreign scene? Korea is saturated.
4th. Blizzard doe snot pay IdrA for the switch. (okay, that's what I assume, maybe they did ;-) )
5th. euh.. sure. Companies are in it for a profit. As long as BW gets a good viewer rating, they'll be there. If companies have to choose between BW and SC2, for sponsoring, then indeed the appearance of SC2 can have an effect. I am not denying that. I would like to see Blizzard doing more than this Korean oriented tournament. All the while, I hope BW will keep on going as it is going.
The main issue I had with your original post was how you're talking down the tournament and people who are hyped up. I was responding with a reason behind the hype. And justifying/rationalizing Blizzard's move.
it has already started .. they will try to kill BW .. with this so much hype, and with BW broadcast is put to a halt .. BW will die out and SC2 might not make a great esport .. im saying is that the foreign scene doesnt have what it takes to have a good esport scene, atleast on US/EU anyway, but not really in Asia .. growth is uncertain, but the way blizzard delivers their "vision of esport" it seems, to them, that they are the key to have a great international scene which is bullshit. thats why they are monopolizing everything .. also, korea isnt saturated .. its just growing slowly .. foreign scene might not be saturated, but its really uncertain. thats why there aren't any "GSL" like theme in the foreign scene.
also take note about the US/EU proscene regarding RTS outside korea/china. its pretty poor. building from scratch isn't blizzard's idea of esport. they are in it for the money alone, and doesn't give a damn about the fans. korean proscene on the other hand, like i said, gives us great games and getting payed in the process. i dont care who holds the copyrights. fuck that. as long as great esport is broadcasted im fine.
SC2 games NOW aren't worth the pot money being thrown by Blizzard/GSL. a 2week+ game with all the amateur playing. its a sight for sore eyes.
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I'm impressed. seems like they really know what they are doing. online preliminaries would only decrease the tournaments credibility since anyone can cheat, hack, etc.
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Awesome. I have mixed feelings about their statement about ' if you're not good enough to qualify you're hardly a progamer'.
What makes professional leagues so attractive is that you develop a rapport with a certain "cast" of players. Their drama and their tale gives the game a bit more significance than if someone you don't know is playing. Sure, we can all appreciate moments of brilliance, but moments of brilliance are just that, moments.
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@aimaimaim, Blizzard and esports/sc2 fans share a common interest, which is getting lift-off of SC2. You keep pitching it as an evil move against BW, but there's no specific action against BW, however as a side effect it could suffer. Blizzard isn't alone in wanting big tourneys for SC2, but perhaps you don't agree with that (reasoning that BW is likely to suffer, which I see as a valid position to hold). As my original point was, the money isn't thrown around because of the quality of the players, but as a means of getting lift-off. And I believe your usage of that proverb 'sight for sore eyes' is used wrong there but that's just for your info 
I hope SC2 and BW can coexist, but I would prefer SC2 to get worldwide development over BW staying stable as an ESPORTS only in Korea. If I have to choose between the two.
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I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW
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On August 12 2010 00:09 HeadhunteR wrote:
I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW
it will, if it wouldnt then esport was going to die in korea
sc2 isnt to hurt scbw. sc2 is just to grow esports. scbw has no potential to grow so with scbw we will never see things like esports world cups.
sc2 is a whole new chance for esports. a chance that may not come ever again
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On August 12 2010 07:43 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 00:09 HeadhunteR wrote:
I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW it will, if it wouldnt then esport was going to die in korea sc2 isnt to hurt scbw. sc2 is just to grow esports. scbw has no potential to grow so with scbw we will never see things like esports world cups. sc2 is a whole new chance for esports. a chance that may not come ever again
have no potential to grow? why do i keep on seeing these arguements .. BW is still growing slowly .. the foreign scene thinks its dying because they cant seem to penetrate the leagues with their low skill capacity .. Idra, back when he was still playing BW, is an example of what foreigners must do so that they can penetrate any proscene.
"esports world cups" uhmm lets see .. WCG ANYONE????
seeing as to how koreans hate SC2 and yet koreans still own the best foreigners out there and you think RTS esport can be big outside?
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I don't understand why people complain because anyone can participate in the GSL. I think the skill level will be as high in GSL as it is in the current BW scene, even if players don't need a licence to play. The best players will certainly find sponsors, just like they did in BW, and then they'll have all day to practice SC2 if they wish too.
I certainly believe the SC2 proscene will be established fast. It can't happen to turn into an amateur tournament like WCG, it just can't. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the current proteams have some players in the GSL '11.
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