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[Interview] The Philosophy of the GSL

Forum Index > News
105 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
August 07 2010 03:17 GMT
#1
Gretech E-Sports Department Director Oh Joo Yang: "GSL is an Open League"

[image loading]


On the 5th, Gretech revelaed its plans for a huge StarCraft II league with a total of 600,000,000 Won in prizes for 2010, and a total of 1,200,000,000 Won in prizes for 2011. GSL is a league that anyone over 12 years old can freely participate. The three open tournaments in 2010 have the grand prize of 100,000,000 Won, and the league is attracting a lot of attention as the biggest league in the history of e-sports. Gretech e-sports department director Oh Joo Yang said, "GSL is a league created by Blizzard's and our desire for e-sports. It will run as an open league in which anyone can participate."

▶ This is GSL!

GSL is a huge league with 600,000,000 Won in prizes in 2010. Gretech revealed that in 2011, 12 tournaments will be played with total prize pool of over 1,200,000,000 Won. This is amazing for a game that had been just released only about a week ago. Director Oh said that the reason for running GSL was "the desire for the globalization of e-sports and its contents."

- I'm curious about the intention behind GSL
▲ Global broadcasting fits the league since it is based on an online game, and we're at a better spot for overseas broadcasting compared to cable TV. A lot of Korean culture is spreading to the world, and I think our e-sports culture can be shared with the world. That's why GomTV tried so hard to get into the world of e-sports, but we had many difficulties. We got kicked out and ignored... We had to stop GomTV Classic because the teams wouldn't send their players. That's when StarCraft II was released and we got the exclusive contract. We didn't give in to any outrageous demands or anything. I think we were able to become their partner because we valued Blizzard's intellectual rights and we were able to discuss without problems. If we weren't interested in the globalization of e-sports, we would have only traded broadcasting rights like IEG, but we decided to lauch GSL because we were interested. Korean e-sports is like "Galapagos". It's separated from the rest of the world. I think it worked out well since Blizzard was also interested in making StarCraft II a global e-sport.

- Why are you starting off with such a big tournament?
▲ We discussed this a lot. Some people said that small tournaments would be reasonable since the tournaments this year are just for the rights to participate in the main league next year. However, while we prepared for the year-long GSL, we concentrated on having as many tournaments as possible so that the players can take home a lot of money. We wanted to make sure the passionate and good gamers were able to earn a lot of money and continue being a gamer. A large sum of money encourages more players to participate and gathers more interest.

- How different do you think the size of the main league next year will be?
▲ The pre-season will comprise of 3 main tournaments and 1 invite-only tournament. Next year, there will be 12 tournaments. The size of the tournament is important, but stability is the most important. The prize pool may decrease in size, but it won't be by much. The fans will be very angry if it decreases too much (laughs). Our goal is to make the league bigger and bigger over time. In gold, there are a lot of tournaments, but only a few major leagues with large prizes. We will make the league bigger and bigger while running both big and small tournaments.

- Are you thinking of models similar to golf or tennis?
▲ It's not just gold and tennis that we looked at. We took ideas from many different sports. Even though e-sports comprises of games where a lot of players participate, like FPS games, I think RTS games are individual games. Even though there are teams in proleague, each match is individual. It's not like baseball or soccer(football) where you get a specific position and work with your team. If you cheat on an individual game, you lose, but in a team game, you still have a chance, if your teammates play well. That's why we made GSL an individual league. Also, there are political reasons. We could make team leagues too if the gaming teams all participate, but we're still in negotiation with the association, and this may take a long time. Although it is an individual league right now, we have the intentions to change the format to incorporate the teams somehow.

▶ GSL is a Korean league under the name of "Global league"!

GSL is supposed to be a "Global StarCraft II League", but it's strictly a Korean league. All the games are offline, and foreign gamers have to come to Korea from the preliminaries. Director Oh said, "Gretech has the rights for Korea, so we can only hold a league in Korea. We're planning on focusing on Korean gamers for the pre-season."

- I'm curious about the league format.
▲ All the games are offline. TeamLiquid asked us if we could have the preliminaries online, but then we would need more preparation, so we decided to make the pre-season offline from the preliminaries. Those who want to participate would have to come to Korea. During the main league there is a possibility of inviting foreign gamers, but I think we'll have to focus on the Korean gamers for the pre-season. Players will have to spend their own money to come to Korea if they wish to participate. I don't know if this is a good analogy, but like how soccer players have to go to England if they want to participate in the Premier League, the players will have to come to Korea if they want to participate in a Korean league. There's no artificial way to incorporate foreign gamers for the main league. GomTV only has the rights for Korea. It is out of our ability to run a league outside of Korea.

- Isn't it possible to run a online league?
▲ I don't think online leagues are good. Sports need to be offline to be fair. The leagues so far were online because they lacked the funding or the situation didn't allow for an offline league. However, you can't stop someone else playing for a player that way. We would have to trust the gamers' conscience. That's why we decided to run everything offline for GSL.

- I heard the whole league will be played in a tournament style.
▲ I think the best way to find the best player is Best of X tournaments in a single league. The players with the best condition and skill won the GomTV Classic Leagues. Pre-season will be played in the same format. We made 3 open tournaments so that the players can used to the format of the league. We will use the three tournaments to decide the rankings for the players participating in the main league.

- Where will be the games played?
▲ We prepared everything in Mokdong for HD broadcasting. We already received positive feedback of the HD broadcasting in Star2Gather. We'll play there for now, and if the league goes well, we'll move to a place that's more easily accessible for the viewers.

[image loading]


▶ GSL will be able to be viewed on Cable TV as well as online!

Gretech said that they were planning on broadcasting GSL on a cable channel as well as online to bring the league closer to the Korean fans. Director Oh revealed that "many cable channels contacted us with interest, and we're preparing it so we can start broadcasting on cable starting September."

- Are you preparing to broadcast on cable as well?
▲ We don't think we should be the only ones broadcasting it. Since we're the only ones with broadcasting rights, it's better for us if more parties wish to negotiate with us. There are a lot of cable TV channels that want to broadcast our league. We asked them to wait since we think it's better for us to negotiate with channels that already have experiences with broadcasting games. We're still negotiating with MBCGame and OGN. We're talking about starleagues right now, so I think we need to reach an agreement on that first. Also as a side note, one of the two channels is negotiating more actively than the other. If we don't get to negotiate with the two stations regarding StarCraft II, we'll have to negotiate with a different channel.

- How's the search for sponsors going?
▲ We've talked with many corporations. There have been a lot of them contacting us and blizzard after GSL was announced. We'll give more details when things are decided.

▶ There will only be one league in StarCraft II!

Gretech set the definition as a progamer as "a gamer that earns money in a league."

Players that are ranked 1st through 32nd will be set as Code S and players that are ranked 33rd through 96th will be set as code A. After a league, the lower ranks of Code S players and the upper ranks of Code A players will play a match to decide their position for the next league. Also, the bottom 32 Come A players will have to play against top 32 Battle.net players to decide the Code A players for the next season.

- Have you thought about the requirement to be a progamer?
▲ There is no difference between amateur and progamer in GSL. The fact that a player passed the preliminaries and is playing in a tournament makes him a progamer. We won't regulate or give licenses or anything like that. Some people said that there should be a way to protect the famous gamers, but what's the point of being a progamer if the gamer lacks skill to make it into the tournaments?

- I heard now there are tax breaks for amateur leagues as well.
▲ Until now, only progamers had the 3.3% special tax rate. However, since the law changed in 2009, if a lot of players compete in a league, only 20% of the earnings are able to be taxed at 22% rate. That means you'll only have to pay 4.4% as tax. This is already being applied to all of the amateur leagues in Korea. So the players participating won't have to worry about losing a lot of money to tax.

Gretech revealed that "there will only be one league for StarCraft II. We decided that after talking with Blizzard, it will be best if there is only one league for StarCraft II in Korea. Unless something big happens, GSL will represent StarCraft II in Korea."

- Will StarCraft only have one major league?
▲ Blizzard and we decided that there will only be one league. If both stations want to broadcast it, we could make some changes, but as of now our goal is to have one major league. The reason the fans were so sad after Brazil got knocked out of World Cup was that they have to wait 4 years for the next chance, but right now, a player that gets eliminated on Wednesday may appear again on Thursday, and even if they get eliminated again, comes up on Proleague on Saturday. That's why the games seem less important, and the players have hard time focusing on the individual leagues. The fans are arguing about whether it's a good thing that they can see so many games or a bad thing since the progamers are being overworked. I think that can be solved if there is only one league, but more games are played in that league. Also, in terms of business, sponsors like it that there is only one league, since the league that they are sponsoring will be only league going on.

- Cooperating with Blizzard will also be very important.
▲ We already negotiated with Blizzard. We run a tournament every month, and a ladder tournament ran by Blizzard is included. Blizzard plans on running a ladder tournament about four times a year, and that's included in GSL. The King of Kings Tournament in December is also named "Blizzard Cup." Blizzard also thinks that StarCraft II needs to become an e-sport in order for the game to succeed, so they are cooperating very well. The tournaments throughout the year assign points to each of the players, and those points determine who gets to play in the Blizzard Cup. The ladder tournaments give points the same way as GSL tournaments. For example, even if you never play in GSL, you may be able to play in the Blizzard Cup if you consistently place in the top of the ladder tournaments.

▶ We'll try hard to ensure the rights of the viewers

Gretech emphasized that they are not monopolizing broadcasting rights. They're only trying to make the StarCraft II League bigger through connections with other corporations.

- If you had to honestly guess how successful StarCraft II will be?
▲ Since StarCraft developed in a special situation, it will be hard to compare to StarCraft II, but I'm sure there will be no problems in establishing StarCraft II as an e-sport. I think the reason StarCraft was so popular in Korea was due to the quickly decided matches and speedy gameplay. I think it was appealing to the impatient Koreans. StarCraft was also not perfect in balance or game play. It was due to constant patching and the efforts of the gamers that completed the game. StarCraft II will also continue to develop through Blizzard and the gamers. Since it's like a 2010 version of the 12 year old game, I trust that it will go well.

- I'm curious about the e-sports Gretech is picturing.
▲ We're concentrating the most on the players. The B-team progamers are earning little and living in dorms without going to school. We don't want to criticize the current structure of e-sports, but we just want to say that the current e-sports structure is a little twisted since it wasn't planned out from the beginning. We don't want progamers to have to give up working or going to school. You shouldn't be denied participation just because you don't belong to a larger group. That's why we decided to not regulate progaming status. Some people say this will cause a problem, but I think if there are a lot of leagues and many ways to qualify, this will get better. Right now, the world of e-sports is hard to get into. We want to change this. Viewers have been watching e-sports for 10 years and have been watching new games every week. We don't want fans to be left with nothing to watch. If GSL goes as planned, viewers will be able to watch more matches then they do now.

- Anything else you'd like to say to the fans?
▲ The community seems to have a lot of doubts since we didn't reveal a lot of the details. I thank the fans that support our position. I want to tell everyone they don't need to worry about us monopolizing the rights. We wouldn't have even started a league like this if we just wanted to make profit. I hope that the fans can trust us and wait.

Source: http://fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=109667&db=issue




Old version, Translated by Milkis
+ Show Spoiler +
"GSL will be an open contest based on skill"
An Interview with the Director's Gretech's eSports Department, Oh Joo Yang


This past 5th, Gretech announced the "Global Starcraft 2 League". It is a league that anyone over twelve all over the world can enter. It is a "Massive eSports league" that
will have 600,000,000 won worth of prizes just in 2010, and 1,200,000,000 won in prizes in 2011.

The response was hot. Many normal users, to even reserve progamers who were preparing for leagues have shown interest in participating. There are now a lot more people asking about how the league runs and the rules.

On the other hand, there were people who questioned how far a Starcraft 2 League could get without the participation of KeSPA and the Progaming teams. There were even people who expressed that they felt that Gretech has thrown a force bid for victory to dominate the Starcraft 2 eSports scene.

The director of Gretech's eSports Department Oh Joo Yang (OJY) kicked aside all worries with the word "Open Door Policy". He wants to create a "Starcraft 2 Festival" for everyone, rather than a league that was limited to specialized gamers and channels. He wants to change the participation from "Gaming Teams" to "Every User", and Broadcasts not only in Cable TV but on "various mediums".

[image loading]


■ <Starcraft 2> will go in the route of "open" Progamers.

Director OJY thinks that the basic definition of a Progamer is "Someone who enters a contest to win prize money".

The basis of the Starcraft leagues were concentrated heavily on the Progame teams. Whether you are skilled or not, if you want to play in the leagues, you needed to belong to a Progame team. The B Team players or the Battle.net gosus who lacked the skill or fame had difficulty playing in matches.

Meanwhile, there is no differentiation between a pro and an amateur in the GSL. As long as you have a battle.net account and you are over 12 years old, you are able to participate, and if you perform well in the open contests that will take place three times this year, they will be able to directly play in the official leagues in 2011.

Participation is only possible through "individual's request", and there are no special considerations based on seeds, based on whether or not you're in a progaming team or not, or based on popularity. The current Starcraft Progamers are free to participate, but even in this case, they need to request individually and they need to climb up through Offline preliminaries.

The selection is only based on skill. This is the "open dorr policy" that Director OJY speaks of. He wants to create a large door of entry that anyone with skill can come through.

[image loading]


The skill testing continues even after the official leagues are open.

The GSL, depending on the results from the open contests, will be divided into two leagues. 1st place to 36th place is divided into 8 groups in the Code S league, and 33th place to 96th place participates in the Code A league, which is a round of 64 tournament. [T/N: the original article says 1st to 36th place divided into 8 groups, but 1st to 32nd place would make more sense]

Once one league ends, then the worst eight players in the 8 Code S groups and the top 8 players in Code A gather together for a "Promotion Decision Match". The players who win climb into Code S, and the players who lose are demoted into Code A.

The bottom 32 players in Code A are also required to take place in the Offline preliminaries, and they'll have to play with the top 32 users in Battle.net for the right to play in Code A next season. You need to keep winning to stay in the League.

On the other hand, those who wants to be a Progamer can increase their Battle.net records to participate in Code A. The Battle.net ranking becomes a kind of a "Waiting Ticket" to enter the league. Director OJY believes that every user on Battle.net is a "potential Progamer" as long as they are willing.

[image loading]

■ "There are no plans to create an organization, or to manage the players"

If that's the case, who manages the Progamers? Director OJY revealed that "There are no plans to create an organization or to manage the progamers". KeSPA thinks the same. Starcraft 2 progamers are not associated with KeSPA.

There are two big reasons for Progamers to join KeSPA. The first is that you need to be registered as a Progamer to be able to play in a Progame Team, and the second reason is because as a registered Progamer, you can have the prize money considered as an "earned income" and have your taxes reduces.

However, the rules related to the taxes changed. Before, if an individual not belonging in an association enter a contest and win, 22% of the winnings were taken away through taxes. On the other hand, a person registered as a Progamer only paid 3.3% taxes as the prize money was considered earned income.

This rule was recently changed so that, in contests where people gather and compete through skill, 80% of the prize money can be considered contest expenses. Therefore, if a normal person wins in a contest, they only pay 4.4% as taxes. That's only a 1.1% difference from a Progamer.

[image loading]

The same thing applies to specialized education for Progamers. OJY answers the question "But don't you at least need specialized education?" by asking "Have you ever participated in a progamer specialized education?". He doesn't believe that there will be much benefits in such a crammed method of teaching, and he points out that there aren't many progamers who take the program seriously.

He used a soccer player as an example. "A skilled soccer player is still somewhat recognized even if his attitude is problematic. However, he is expelled the second he reaches a level the fans can no longer tolerate". He is implying that this "purge" mechanism by the fans and the sponsors will be enough.

However, GSL included a minimal defense mechanism, so that if the sponsors and organizers believe that the player is lacking refinement, they can revoke the player's right to play. While in the future, with respect to teams that need skilled players or sponsors, or with respect to salaries in benefits, they could cover "the most essential things" through education, the Director is saying that they will not start by managing anything.

Keep in mind, that players who have fixed matches in Starcraft League will not be able to participate in Starcraft 2 leagues, following decisions made by the GSL organizers. While the law may not punish them greatly, because they have fixed what was the core of sports, the match results, it becomes a completely different story.

[image loading]


■ Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2.

"We are simply Starcraft 2's exclusive entrepreneurs. We are not a monopolistic entrepreneur."

Gretech's representative Bae In Shik has a habit of saying this, according to Director OJY. He says that Gretech will never monopolize broadcasts just for their profits. Gretech's purpose is to sell sub-licenses and make Starcraft 2 and its contests popular. Their goal is not to monopolize Starcraft 2.

For this purpose, Gretech is currently talking with Cable broadcasters to broadcast GSL, and currently looking for partners on the internet, Gretech's main(?) stage.

GomTV also has capabilities for HD broadcasts. Because of practical reasons, the service is currently limited to 720p, but it can make broadcasts that has a resolution of 1920 x 1080. This means that there won't be a problem with HD broadcasts. Director OJY have also revealed his ambition that "I would like it if we can even have one cable channel broadcasting with us".

[image loading]

Will there be any problems for operations? GSL's 2010 prize money is nearly 600,000,000 won, and starting with 2011, they are planning on putting up 1,200,000,000 won up on the line every year. From an outside perspective, this is a level that can be seen as reckless.

Director OJY responded. "We are currently in touch with Sponsors, and we have also considered various methods where Gretech and Blizzard contribute a fixed amount". It has been revealed that, amongst the Sponsor candidates, there were sponsors who contacted Gretech first before Gretech began talking about the possibility.

To have operations go smoothly, a "Contest Operation Team" was also created. Commentator Chae Jeong Won took the position as the team lead, and they are also currently recruiting commentators and casters. The operation team will also be temporarily acting as referees.

There are currently no plans for team leagues, but if there are many teams who reveal that they would like to play, a team level league could be created. Director OJY wants a flexible philosophy and open as many contests as possible to create a wide range of opportunities and prize money.

"We want to open a contest that everyone can admit is on the scale of Blizzard". This is the first goal set by Director OJY for the GSL.

Source: ThisIsGame, http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=456731&board=&category=13401
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Writer
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 03:28:01
August 07 2010 03:21 GMT
#2
Thanks for the translation! I am REALLY excited to see the matches this league produces!!! way cool.

The whole "open door" policy sounds really... fair! Hopefully we can find some as of now undiscovered talent.

How recent was that law passed about the Taxes? Thats pretty cool.

AWWWWWWWWWWW upmagic...

This is so cool! great last comment. Super cool, professional SC2 has liftoff.
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
rlagksquf
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand153 Posts
August 07 2010 03:21 GMT
#3
looking forward to it

ComusLoM
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Norway3547 Posts
August 07 2010 03:24 GMT
#4
It just gets more and more real, I can't wait for this to hit.
"The White Woman Speaks in Tongues That Are All Lies" - Incontrol; Member #37 of the Chill Fanclub
GhoSt[shield]
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2131 Posts
August 07 2010 03:28 GMT
#5
Thanks for the translation.
This is a very exciting development. The ranking system is kind of confusing, although over time I will understand it better.
This is going to be very amazing.
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
August 07 2010 03:33 GMT
#6
great stuff
:O
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
August 07 2010 03:35 GMT
#7
Nice, they're really investing a lot into it. By now I bet CJ cannot be totally ignorant of this development as it's really relevant to OGN's interests, but this is a good way to explore the possibilities of spectator SC2 while still preserving spectator BW the way it is. Waiting on Gretech to announce sublicensing BW to the broadcasters, though.

"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Percutio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1672 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 03:50:21
August 07 2010 03:50 GMT
#8
Excellent read, thanks for the post.
What does it matter how I loose it?
nbtnbt5
Profile Joined March 2009
232 Posts
August 07 2010 03:53 GMT
#9
Wow, this is an innovative idea I guess. And lol@SC match fixers not being able to compete in sc2 tournaments. Serves them right.
Yellow: "Well boxer's kind of a tool like that, wanting to bunker rush me all the time but hiding it behind all that deception."
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 04:37:06
August 07 2010 04:07 GMT
#10
very good job of showing no mercy for the match fixers.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
August 07 2010 04:07 GMT
#11
Commentator Chae Jeong Won.

Who is this? GARIMTO?
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
August 07 2010 04:10 GMT
#12
"We are simply Starcraft 2's exclusive entrepreneurs. We are not a monopolistic entrepreneur."


Gretech's representative Bae In Shik has a habit of saying this, according to Director OJY. He says that Gretech will never monopolize broadcasts just for their profits. Gretech's purpose is to sell sub-licenses and make Starcraft 2 and its contests popular. Their goal is not to monopolize Starcraft 2.


We are not monopolistic, we just have a monopoly and you must go through us? Am I missing something here?
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
SayTT
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2158 Posts
August 07 2010 04:23 GMT
#13
nice thnx for the translation! They seem to have a much better view on esport comparing to kespa,
especially concerning the 'distance' between spectator and player how to balance regulations without shoking the game/sport.
-,-
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
August 07 2010 04:34 GMT
#14
Can't wait to see how this pans out. ^_^
Someone call down the Thunder?
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
August 07 2010 04:38 GMT
#15
Really nice to know. Thanks for the translation!

I love the concept of PLAYING a match to keep your spot in the Code S league. PRESSURES ON.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
August 07 2010 04:44 GMT
#16
Looks like a solid plan. And all that money...this is gonna get interesting!
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
maneatingshoe
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada484 Posts
August 07 2010 04:54 GMT
#17
This is so exciting! I still can't believe there's this much money in SC2 already!
tarpman
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada718 Posts
August 07 2010 04:58 GMT
#18
Oh, fantastic. I really hope this continues to go in the direction he seems to want it to.
Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time.
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
August 07 2010 05:04 GMT
#19
Gom seems to really know (or say) what the players want. This is going to be real exiting!
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
August 07 2010 05:06 GMT
#20
Looks good, thanks for the translation!
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
August 07 2010 05:06 GMT
#21
This just looks better and better. I really like their open door policies. Hope things go smoothly.
Life is Good.
Motiva
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1774 Posts
August 07 2010 05:11 GMT
#22
Wow great read :D I'm pumped to watch this as it unfolds. Thanks for the post.
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
August 07 2010 05:30 GMT
#23
Thanks for the translation!

Would love to see Tasteless commentating league games. I love watching this kind of stuff but sometimes feel disengaged due to the language barrier. It'd be sick to see not only english commentary, but a guy like Tasteless (arguably my favorite caster due to his humor) get back into doing this kind of commentary.
SoJu.WeRRa
Profile Joined June 2010
Korea (South)820 Posts
August 07 2010 05:51 GMT
#24
Thats totally awesome!!!
나를 찢어갈겨이씨발놈아왜나를미치게만들어니가뭘아는데?
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
August 07 2010 05:58 GMT
#25
so anyone think this is tasteless' "secret project" he was talking about?
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
August 07 2010 06:01 GMT
#26
the only thing i wish is that i could go to korea and participate!...however i cant...at least til next summer, so if they are still having the open stuff next summer then i will attempt to participate and will give it my all, until then i will be learning how to play/win the game (mid/upper diamond around 400pts (post losing streak of 28 games in a row!!!!)
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
August 07 2010 06:13 GMT
#27
i hope tasteless and artosis are involved, i hope artosis isnt becoming strictly a gamer, and that he will still commentate.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
August 07 2010 06:48 GMT
#28
Awesome read, thanks for posting.
There's no S in KT. :P
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49974 Posts
August 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#29
[image loading]

2 passwords?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
August 07 2010 06:54 GMT
#30
This is an interesting philosophy... I wonder if it'll work
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
August 07 2010 06:56 GMT
#31
@Klogon of course they will, after all they have the money to make it work.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
G3nXsiS
Profile Joined July 2009
United States656 Posts
August 07 2010 07:05 GMT
#32
So my question is, release the dates and tell me when the stream is and I will be there lol. But I really hope that starcraft 2 really grows. Again in order for them to do that they need starcraft 1 to die. Gom is really gonna have to pull something big in order to invoke interest into the game.
Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment
Kishkumen
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States650 Posts
August 07 2010 07:07 GMT
#33
Thanks for the translation. I am so excited to watch the first one of these.
Weird, last time I checked the UN said you need to have at least 200 APM and be rainbow league to be called human. —Liquid`TLO
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 07:21:03
August 07 2010 07:12 GMT
#34
On August 07 2010 15:56 Integra wrote:
@Klogon of course they will, after all they have the money to make it work.


I honestly don't think this philosophy is sustainable for the long term. The organization and league format/rules that KeSPA had in place is part of what gave the professional BW scene the stability that it had over the years. There were familiar faces and familiar teams you'd be guaranteed to see and fans could be attracted to and develop a "relationship" with. These teams in turn would make money in various ways to sponsor the players to allow them to actually sustain themselves on gaming. And you wouldn't have to place in the top to get paid either.

Gretech has moved away from this and instead, turned the GSL into a glorified global amateur battle royale. There are no set teams or facilities, players may or may not be sponsored, and there's nothing to distinguish pros from amateurs. If the goal is to legitimize eSports and make it more professional, I really don't see this as a way to do it... Imagine if the BW scene adopted this. Instantly the vast majority of current pro gamers would have to quit since only a small number of them would win any prize money at all, much less enough to live off.

But then again, from the way things look, eSports development is not really the point. I don't think Gretech has any real interest in developing the eSport, but rather doing what they can to make SC2 more popular and then selling licenses to others who may be interested in developing it. Assuming that's the actual goal, I suppose this philosophy works fine for that purpose since it makes everyone feel like they have a chance.

In the end, though, it looks like it's probably going to end up being another KeSPA type of organization to create an actual pro scene from this game.
qoiN
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden576 Posts
August 07 2010 07:44 GMT
#35
On August 07 2010 15:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:

2 passwords?


Yes, your account password and then the authenticator code.
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
August 07 2010 07:54 GMT
#36
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
andeh
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States904 Posts
August 07 2010 09:13 GMT
#37
seems like a guy we want helping esports
AyJay
Profile Joined April 2010
1515 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 11:18:58
August 07 2010 10:02 GMT
#38
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
August 07 2010 12:32 GMT
#39
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


I would like to know as well how this made E-sports go back one step.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
August 07 2010 12:35 GMT
#40
Casting duo Tasteless/Artosis and SDM/Day?
Probably not right of the bat, but maybe maybe in the future!
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 13:31:41
August 07 2010 13:30 GMT
#41
I just hope the production quality will be good, quality commentary and alot of coverage to hype up the matches is so key.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 07 2010 13:45 GMT
#42
This is really cool. I can't wait to see some guy considered a noob cheeser get in though, will be really funny.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
August 07 2010 13:54 GMT
#43
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague.

SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs"

There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off.

GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments.

Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete.
Maul
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia130 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 14:36:01
August 07 2010 14:26 GMT
#44
On August 07 2010 16:12 LegendaryZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 15:56 Integra wrote:
@Klogon of course they will, after all they have the money to make it work.

+ Show Spoiler +

I honestly don't think this philosophy is sustainable for the long term. The organization and league format/rules that KeSPA had in place is part of what gave the professional BW scene the stability that it had over the years. There were familiar faces and familiar teams you'd be guaranteed to see and fans could be attracted to and develop a "relationship" with. These teams in turn would make money in various ways to sponsor the players to allow them to actually sustain themselves on gaming. And you wouldn't have to place in the top to get paid either.

Gretech has moved away from this and instead, turned the GSL into a glorified global amateur battle royale. There are no set teams or facilities, players may or may not be sponsored, and there's nothing to distinguish pros from amateurs. If the goal is to legitimize eSports and make it more professional, I really don't see this as a way to do it... Imagine if the BW scene adopted this. Instantly the vast majority of current pro gamers would have to quit since only a small number of them would win any prize money at all, much less enough to live off.

But then again, from the way things look, eSports development is not really the point. I don't think Gretech has any real interest in developing the eSport, but rather doing what they can to make SC2 more popular and then selling licenses to others who may be interested in developing it. Assuming that's the actual goal, I suppose this philosophy works fine for that purpose since it makes everyone feel like they have a chance.

In the end, though, it looks like it's probably going to end up being another KeSPA type of organization to create an actual pro scene from this game.


Well take a look at televised poker. The great appeal of poker is that even an amateur has a shot at beating a pro. In StarCraft this is different because it's based more so on skill and generally there's less luck involved. However, StarCraft 2 is free to play (apart from buying the game of course) and will attract new players with aspirations to be the best just as poker does. Heaps of people watch the poker pros and think "man, playing poker for a living would be cool", and now it's a bit more reachable for everyday people, at least in their minds. This leads to more StarCraft 2 players and more sales for Blizzard. Would Elky still of quit BW for poker if there was $85k up from grabs each month in StarCraft?

In a tournament like the WSOP for example, thousands of players enter and most you'll never hear of, but there's still the pros that get focused on and stand out, each with their own sponsors, typically another cardroom ie Pokerstars or Full Tilt.

The same could work for this style of "everyone's allowed" tournament, where there will be heaps of good players but there will still be those that dominate and/or have tonnes of charisma, and they will stand out. These players will attract sponsors just like teams do with Brood War.

An example would be if an unknown player makes it to the semi-finals, all a company like AMD, nvidia, intel, razor etc would have to do is say, "We'll give you a couple of grand if you wear our patch/uniform when you play your next game". The player makes even more money and the sponsor gets potentially hundreds of thousands of views for cheap advertising.

Poker and StarCraft 2 are different games (sports), but I see no reason why StarCraft 2 will be hurt by this open format. We'll just have to see.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25974 Posts
August 07 2010 14:28 GMT
#45
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague.

SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs"

There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off.

GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments.

Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete.

You draw the wildest conclusions. This is week 2 and who knows what is to come.
Moderator
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
August 07 2010 14:37 GMT
#46
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague.

SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs"

There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off.

GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments.

Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete.


Or it develops into real proteams like cs 1.6 has (MyM/SK/Fnatic) where the top players get saleries and travels the worlds to compete in global events.

I'll take that any time over the current SC:BW scene, while great in itself, I want to see a global scene. The western world is not fit for the culture or system the korean esport scene has.
I want to see players like Nony travel to korea and play against Maka in the grand finals. Or SK-gaming facing off against Liquid in the clan leagues final in a LAN in germany. I can definantly see that happening in the not-so-distant future.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-07 15:00:47
August 07 2010 15:00 GMT
#47
so um, how do you sign up for this shizzle? just play on bnet and the best get picked?
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
August 07 2010 15:51 GMT
#48
Foreigner tournaments should take note...this stuff is all OPEN - not auto-invite + ruling class elite get in the huge money.

Skill > all.
Sup
Keype
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden455 Posts
August 07 2010 15:51 GMT
#49
I can't wait for those first tourneys, this will be so awesome!
Tornado Terran Fighting!
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
August 07 2010 16:30 GMT
#50
On August 07 2010 23:28 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote:
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague.

SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs"

There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off.

GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments.

Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete.

You draw the wildest conclusions. This is week 2 and who knows what is to come.


I don't know why you keep trying to call me out on this, but I draw conclusions based on the evidence out there. I'd like you to tell me why my conclusions are "wild" based on GSL's philosphy instead of just accusing me of such.


dolpiff
Profile Joined June 2010
France300 Posts
August 07 2010 21:39 GMT
#51
too bad the topic of physical presence in korea required to take part even at the earliest stages hasnt been mentionned in the interview
Rewera
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland354 Posts
August 07 2010 22:29 GMT
#52
We just need another big leagues in Europe and in US. Then we could have something like World Cup every two years amog the best of the best.
VTC
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1 Post
August 07 2010 23:43 GMT
#53
That isn't nearly enough money.
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 00:37:33
August 08 2010 00:37 GMT
#54
TYPO


The GSL, depending on the results from the open contests, will be divided into two leagues. 1st place to 36th place is divided into 8 groups in the Code S league, and 33th place to 96th place participates in the Code A league, which is a round of 64 tournament.


that "36th place" should be "32nd place"
___________
Ro 32, + Ro 64.
33-96th place is A league
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
August 08 2010 01:47 GMT
#55
On August 08 2010 09:37 waffling1 wrote:
TYPO

Show nested quote +

The GSL, depending on the results from the open contests, will be divided into two leagues. 1st place to 36th place is divided into 8 groups in the Code S league, and 33th place to 96th place participates in the Code A league, which is a round of 64 tournament.


that "36th place" should be "32nd place"
___________
Ro 32, + Ro 64.
33-96th place is A league


That's actually a Typo made in the original article. I'll make a note for it, however.
m3rciless
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1476 Posts
August 08 2010 01:51 GMT
#56
Gretech alone throwing more than a billion won down for SCII prize money. And some people said esports for this game wouldn't take off.
White-Ra fighting!
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
August 08 2010 01:53 GMT
#57
On August 07 2010 16:12 LegendaryZ wrote:
I honestly don't think this philosophy is sustainable for the long term. The organization and league format/rules that KeSPA had in place is part of what gave the professional BW scene the stability that it had over the years. There were familiar faces and familiar teams you'd be guaranteed to see and fans could be attracted to and develop a "relationship" with. These teams in turn would make money in various ways to sponsor the players to allow them to actually sustain themselves on gaming. And you wouldn't have to place in the top to get paid either.

Gretech has moved away from this and instead, turned the GSL into a glorified global amateur battle royale. There are no set teams or facilities, players may or may not be sponsored, and there's nothing to distinguish pros from amateurs. If the goal is to legitimize eSports and make it more professional, I really don't see this as a way to do it... Imagine if the BW scene adopted this. Instantly the vast majority of current pro gamers would have to quit since only a small number of them would win any prize money at all, much less enough to live off.

But then again, from the way things look, eSports development is not really the point. I don't think Gretech has any real interest in developing the eSport, but rather doing what they can to make SC2 more popular and then selling licenses to others who may be interested in developing it. Assuming that's the actual goal, I suppose this philosophy works fine for that purpose since it makes everyone feel like they have a chance.

In the end, though, it looks like it's probably going to end up being another KeSPA type of organization to create an actual pro scene from this game.


Most individual sports that work under this framework. Players make money from prizes and individual sponsorship. In a sense it is less stable for the players: snooker is bigger than BW, yet only about 50-100 players make enough to be considered full time pros.

However, having no artificial barriers between pros and amateurs has a lot of advantages too. It does encourage less successful players to leave the game earlier. It gives players more control over their training schedule. It possibly even allows people to compete as semi-pros.

In general the players will get more freedom and less stability. No more free agency bullshit, but no team houses either.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 05:07:16
August 08 2010 05:06 GMT
#58
wow thats insane prize pool for 2011 is over 1 million USD. Are these prize pools actually bigger than the BW leagues?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Qwerty.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 07:04:41
August 08 2010 06:41 GMT
#59
Everyone read MrHoon's blog on SC2 in Korea NOW.
AyJay
Profile Joined April 2010
1515 Posts
August 08 2010 13:26 GMT
#60
On August 08 2010 15:41 Qwerty. wrote:
Everyone read MrHoon's blog on SC2 in Korea NOW.

I read it and found nothing great about it:

1. GomTV sux we need Kespa
2. We need Lan
3. System requirements are too high

basically.
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
August 08 2010 16:46 GMT
#61
no upmagic ? ):
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
August 08 2010 20:00 GMT
#62
MY DICK IS HARD

Gom is doing right by the gamers.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
DemiSe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
883 Posts
August 08 2010 21:12 GMT
#63
Thanks for the translation. Really great news!
Let's See Who's Stronger, Your Tricks, Or My Skills.
muramasa
Profile Joined March 2005
Canada1299 Posts
August 08 2010 21:15 GMT
#64
This is awesome. I can't wait for things to really get going. There are a lot of smaller tourneys going on all the time, but this is massive.

The whole system is really dependent on Blizzard being really vigilant with their anti-hacking technology because the Battle.Net ladder itself is the way that people qualify for this. I really hope they don't drop the ball.
Hong Jin Ho. Nevar forget.
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 23:14:40
August 08 2010 23:14 GMT
#65
"We are simply Starcraft 2's exclusive entrepreneurs. We are not a monopolistic entrepreneur."


umm... tell me how those two are actually different.
atenthirtyone
Profile Joined May 2010
United States88 Posts
August 08 2010 23:40 GMT
#66
On August 09 2010 08:14 waffling1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
"We are simply Starcraft 2's exclusive entrepreneurs. We are not a monopolistic entrepreneur."


umm... tell me how those two are actually different.


They don't want to do all of the work themselves. Contract/license out the huge piece of cash cow instead of selling it themselves. =P
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 06:30:40
August 09 2010 06:30 GMT
#67
On August 08 2010 10:51 m3rciless wrote:
Gretech alone throwing more than a billion won down for SCII prize money. And some people said esports for this game wouldn't take off.

You're not making sense. An internet tv company throwing a bunch of money at a game does not an esport make.

yet.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
August 09 2010 07:13 GMT
#68
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Lokian
Profile Joined March 2010
United States699 Posts
August 09 2010 07:59 GMT
#69
I really like where this is going. Making it open for everyone is a great idea. This is how it should be... how else are we going to determine the best of the best? Courage... lol. And its international! I step back for e-sports?

If you're the best of the best, I assume you would make a lot of money. Not only that, but you would get public attention and presumably scouted by the media. I'm not sure if teams would form or another organization similar to Kespa form for SC2. Right now, it looks similar to tennis championship where its pretty much on an individual basis. But... its a game. A part time job might not be so bad. Living life you know...




Watch my gaming channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BedinSpace
Shady
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria115 Posts
August 09 2010 09:08 GMT
#70
thx for the translation!
But in my eyes they should begin to release their statements in english and translate their page! They cant anounce a GLOBAL league in korean....
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 14:42:52
August 09 2010 10:34 GMT
#71
On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses

There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo)
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 14:29:26
August 09 2010 14:17 GMT
#72
great write up!

ah just a quick note:
Its a good way to start off open like this, let it have a fresh development.
The reality is, when people say 'professional esports' there is only one example, SCBW.

This is a time to inspire and get people to excited, to learn the game and to really develop a love of this game first. This is what is going to make the fan base and the interest. Lets see some new talent and new stars come out.

I'd love to SCBW continue as it is and something different happen with SC2.
Also a main thing with anything that is a professional league, is though sponsors;
the idea in Korea about professional e-sports is there and with sponsors,
lets give it time!

Also, conversely, had they not opened it up, how the heck could you really decided who is good enough to really play. I tell you, playing online at home and playing in front of a crap load of people with a lot of cash on the line is a different story, and I think this will be a great experience and exposure to anyone who joins.

^^
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
August 09 2010 14:26 GMT
#73
OP updated with a new, more detailed translation by l10f.
AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
August 09 2010 14:30 GMT
#74
Of note:

- I'm curious about the league format.
▲ All the games are offline. TeamLiquid asked us if we could have the preliminaries online, but then we would need more preparation, so we decided to make the pre-season offline from the preliminaries. Those who want to participate would have to come to Korea. During the main league there is a possibility of inviting foreign gamers, but I think we'll have to focus on the Korean gamers for the pre-season. Players will have to spend their own money to come to Korea if they wish to participate. I don't know if this is a good analogy, but like how soccer players have to go to England if they want to participate in the Premier League, the players will have to come to Korea if they want to participate in a Korean league. There's no artificial way to incorporate foreign gamers for the main league. GomTV only has the rights for Korea. It is out of our ability to run a league outside of Korea.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Oozo
Profile Joined December 2009
Finland432 Posts
August 09 2010 16:28 GMT
#75
All that bugs me about this, is that when I see sc:bw tournament, I look at the players and teams to see if there might be intresting games.

When i see this one, I see "INSERT HUGE MONEY" crap. That's far from intresting, sadly.
SKT for OSL!
Guilty
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada812 Posts
August 09 2010 17:03 GMT
#76
Should be an interesting couple of months coming up, looks pretty cool so far.
Thanks for translation!
"How hard could it be?" -J. Clarkson
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
August 09 2010 17:44 GMT
#77
On August 10 2010 01:28 Jienny wrote:
All that bugs me about this, is that when I see sc:bw tournament, I look at the players and teams to see if there might be intresting games.

When i see this one, I see "INSERT HUGE MONEY" crap. That's far from intresting, sadly.


I see what you're trying to say, still it is the right first step.

People should not be fooled. This is not a "everyone around the world" tournament. Don't get me wrong this league right now is the best choice. Pump money in it, watch it grow. The only Problem is that Blizzard/GOM decide about the future of a professional Starcraft2 scene. And i have a bad taste when i read stuff like that:

- I'm curious about the e-sports Gretech is picturing.
▲ We're concentrating the most on the players. The B-team progamers are earning little and living in dorms without going to school. We don't want to criticize the current structure of e-sports, but we just want to say that the current e-sports structure is a little twisted since it wasn't planned out from the beginning. We don't want progamers to have to give up working or going to school. You shouldn't be denied participation just because you don't belong to a larger group. That's why we decided to not regulate progaming status. Some people say this will cause a problem, but I think if there are a lot of leagues and many ways to qualify, this will get better. Right now, the world of e-sports is hard to get into. We want to change this. Viewers have been watching e-sports for 10 years and have been watching new games every week. We don't want fans to be left with nothing to watch. If GSL goes as planned, viewers will be able to watch more matches then they do now.


One might think everyone played BW and then some guys suddenly decided to shut the doors and form this evil elitist circle. You don't want them to give up work? That's just another way of saying that they want everything to themselves but can't sustain a professional environment. Because fact of the matter is that price money is just a tinny part of the current proscene. Back a few years ago when they compared e-sport salaries there were also numbers which showed that the SKT1 house alone has yearly costs who go into the millions (dollars).

So multiply that by 11, remember that everyone had the chance to go through courage every time, take into consideration how many hundreds of people work around the players / in the background, the insane amount of organisation that has to be done and then remember that we are talking about gaming here. Step back in AWE people, in AWE to what the professional bw korean progaming scene has build up in just a few years.

Al tough not comparable to soccer or any other major sport, the stability pro teams provide their gamers allows for real E-SPORTS in the first place. Of course you don't want your participants to quit their job, because there is no contract or guarantee for the players whatsoever that might provide security to this profession.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
August 09 2010 18:52 GMT
#78
On August 10 2010 02:44 Jayson X wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 01:28 Jienny wrote:
All that bugs me about this, is that when I see sc:bw tournament, I look at the players and teams to see if there might be intresting games.

When i see this one, I see "INSERT HUGE MONEY" crap. That's far from intresting, sadly.


I see what you're trying to say, still it is the right first step.

People should not be fooled. This is not a "everyone around the world" tournament. Don't get me wrong this league right now is the best choice. Pump money in it, watch it grow. The only Problem is that Blizzard/GOM decide about the future of a professional Starcraft2 scene. And i have a bad taste when i read stuff like that:

Show nested quote +
- I'm curious about the e-sports Gretech is picturing.
▲ We're concentrating the most on the players. The B-team progamers are earning little and living in dorms without going to school. We don't want to criticize the current structure of e-sports, but we just want to say that the current e-sports structure is a little twisted since it wasn't planned out from the beginning. We don't want progamers to have to give up working or going to school. You shouldn't be denied participation just because you don't belong to a larger group. That's why we decided to not regulate progaming status. Some people say this will cause a problem, but I think if there are a lot of leagues and many ways to qualify, this will get better. Right now, the world of e-sports is hard to get into. We want to change this. Viewers have been watching e-sports for 10 years and have been watching new games every week. We don't want fans to be left with nothing to watch. If GSL goes as planned, viewers will be able to watch more matches then they do now.


One might think everyone played BW and then some guys suddenly decided to shut the doors and form this evil elitist circle. You don't want them to give up work? That's just another way of saying that they want everything to themselves but can't sustain a professional environment. Because fact of the matter is that price money is just a tinny part of the current proscene. Back a few years ago when they compared e-sport salaries there were also numbers which showed that the SKT1 house alone has yearly costs who go into the millions (dollars).

So multiply that by 11, remember that everyone had the chance to go through courage every time, take into consideration how many hundreds of people work around the players / in the background, the insane amount of organisation that has to be done and then remember that we are talking about gaming here. Step back in AWE people, in AWE to what the professional bw korean progaming scene has build up in just a few years.

Al tough not comparable to soccer or any other major sport, the stability pro teams provide their gamers allows for real E-SPORTS in the first place. Of course you don't want your participants to quit their job, because there is no contract or guarantee for the players whatsoever that might provide security to this profession.


You shouldn't expect all this organization to happen instantly. Generate hype first, then when SC2 is actually popular maybe then the way SC1 is played will become legitamite.
hohoho
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 19:36:11
August 09 2010 19:33 GMT
#79
This is no different than any other tournament except that it has a huge prize money . Having a team league similar to proleague with this huge prize money will be far more interesting knowing that it's an open league . Teams like Liquid , MYM , mouz could participate in it , thought i guess it could only be a tournament and not a daily league like Proleague .
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
August 09 2010 19:52 GMT
#80
Some of you guys have way out of control expectations. A ton of stable sponsorship backing is required to keep something like Kespa's proleague going. Gretech doesn't want to start off with too much then have it fall apart. What they've laid out here is what they know they can support and maintain and still be exciting. Big corporate sponsors don't care about the development of ESPORTS, they're looking for return on investment for their marketing expenditures. You have to prove a league can be successful before the big money sponsorships come in, otherwise the sponsors risk damaging their brand by being associated with a league that fails.

It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
Kurt_Russell
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada147 Posts
August 09 2010 20:48 GMT
#81
On August 07 2010 16:05 G3nXsiS wrote:
So my question is, release the dates and tell me when the stream is and I will be there lol. But I really hope that starcraft 2 really grows. Again in order for them to do that they need starcraft 1 to die. Gom is really gonna have to pull something big in order to invoke interest into the game.


So, you're hoping that Starcraft Broodwar dies?
My captcha when signing up was in ovules :S
cerebralz
Profile Joined August 2009
United States443 Posts
August 09 2010 23:07 GMT
#82
Although it's popular to doubt the methods and motives of blizzard and Gom, from the new translation, this article seems to imply that they do know what they're doing, albeit wading around in uncharted waters. I really think they do care about the players, the scene, and the future.

The interview didn't say anything about the number of other cable networks that asked for partnership rights to broadcast SC2, it's comforting to know that they are out there, as well as sponsorships, actively trying to become a part of the scene.

I hope some of the foreign teams can sponsor some of their players to go to korea for the matches. Travel expenses are killer, but it would be a shame to have the tournament without some of the big names in the community not named Idra. Don't get me wrong, I hope Idra does the US proud, but there will be way more global viewership if foreigners get to be there and play.

setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
August 09 2010 23:41 GMT
#83
Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea.
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-10 00:14:48
August 10 2010 00:01 GMT
#84
On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses

There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo)


making a new "kespa"?
monopolizing the league?

sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..

and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??

what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..

and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.

idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.

and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
August 10 2010 00:07 GMT
#85
I'm very moved by their motivation to change the living conditions of progamers in Korea. That always brought me down.
Who dat ninja?
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
August 10 2010 00:11 GMT
#86
On August 10 2010 08:41 setzer wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea.

If Blizzard's "HEINOUS MOTIVES" cause gamers to earn more while doing less strenuous labor, being able to stay in school, and have options later in life outside of possibly coaching or casting then I say power to them.
Who dat ninja?
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-10 00:18:36
August 10 2010 00:16 GMT
#87
On August 10 2010 09:07 urashimakt wrote:
I'm very moved by their motivation to change the living conditions of progamers in Korea. That always brought me down.


have you watched old boy?

progamers arent forced .. its not labor .. they have great living environments .. FREE FOOD ..


On August 10 2010 09:11 urashimakt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 08:41 setzer wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks 1.2 billion won is too much money to give away to undeserving amateurs? 90% of BW a-teamers are better than those playing SC2 and make significantly less money (unless you are s-class and win SL) than what GOM is offering. Like some of speculated, I think the money was fronted by Blizzard to spur the decrepit SC2 sales in Korea.

If Blizzard's "HEINOUS MOTIVES" cause gamers to earn more while doing less strenuous labor, being able to stay in school, and have options later in life outside of possibly coaching or casting then I say power to them.


try to watch interviews of progamers, old boy, and after talk .. i dont see them doing forced labor ,, they play because they want to be there ..

you, sir, are poorly misinformed ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
August 10 2010 08:44 GMT
#88
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:
On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses

There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo)


making a new "kespa"?
monopolizing the league?

I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're introducing new arguments.
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..

and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??

what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..

You claim that BW is not gonna get hurt? You are whining about this hurting BW as en ESPORTS. Rather than disagreeing with me, your post confirms what I wrote.
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.

The BW ESPORTS scene has been very constant in size for at least a couple of years. there's the proleague, MSL en OSL. The number of teams has been the same since a long time. And outside of this world, sure there's tourneys and clans but it's very limited, money wise (which is a valid way to measure, even though you might want to disagree with that).
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.

Okay so now you change direction and say you're worried about IdrA?
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase ..

Every company involved in ESPORTS, every single one of them, is in it for the money. Either directly from sales related to ESPORTS itself, or as a form of advertisement, hopefully with net positive effect. That's what companies do, try to make a profit. For this to work, though, a game has to grab eyeballs and that's where the 'new and fresh' comes in. (Yes I still enjoy watching BW vods. But many people, 'regulars', have a strange aversion.)
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
san-tokie
Profile Joined May 2007
Korea (South)185 Posts
August 10 2010 09:36 GMT
#89
This whole thing is really rubbing me the wrong way..

- Have you thought about the requirement to be a progamer?
▲ There is no difference between amateur and progamer in GSL.

▶ There will only be one league in StarCraft II!
Gretech set the definition as a progamer as "a gamer that earns money in a league."

- Will StarCraft only have one major league?
▲ Blizzard and we decided that there will only be one league.
If both stations want to broadcast it, we could make some changes, but as of now our goal is to have one major league. ... but right now, a player that gets eliminated on Wednesday may appear again on Thursday, and even if they get eliminated again, comes up on Proleague on Saturday. That's why the games seem less important, and the players have hard time focusing on the individual leagues. The fans are arguing about whether it's a good thing that they can see so many games or a bad thing since the progamers are being overworked. I think that can be solved if there is only one league, but more games are played in that league.

▶ We'll try hard to ensure the rights of the viewers
Gretech emphasized that they are not monopolizing broadcasting rights. They're only trying to make the StarCraft II League bigger through connections with other corporations.


This seems like a step back for current progamers. A progamer in Korea someone who passed the Courage test for a license, worked their way up from practice partner fodder, became contracted to a sponsored proteam and is then provided housing + food + salary. It is a status/position that while not honoured by many in society, is still something you work your butt off to attain.

Under GOM, anyone is a progamer simply because they have the potential to earn money by winning/placing top3 in a tournament. That 40 year old salary man you see walking down the street? Yo dawg he's a progamer on the weekends competing in GSL. This isn't likely to improve living conditions either (which as of right is really fucking good compared to the old days of Boxer etc.), the top players in SC2 will likely be the ones giving up their education to play all day, without the luxuries/amenities of a progaming team house environment. Back to the old days of amateurs eating ramen all day in a pcbang?

Thanks GOM, for ensuring the rights of the viewers, by killing off every other league to make one SC league, one SC2 league. Later proleague, apparently progamers are so overworked from playing in so many broadcasted games, not because of their insane practice schedules.

Gretech revealed that "there will only be one league for StarCraft II. We decided that after talking with Blizzard, it will be best if there is only one league for StarCraft II in Korea. Unless something big happens, GSL will represent StarCraft II in Korea."


And so much for Korean Air OS2L. :\
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
August 10 2010 10:30 GMT
#90
On August 10 2010 18:36 san-tokie wrote:

And so much for Korean Air OS2L. :\

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142743
Korean Air OSL2. (psst, it's a BW league )
HOLY CHECK!
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
August 10 2010 11:31 GMT
#91
On August 10 2010 17:44 Badjas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
On August 09 2010 19:34 Badjas wrote:
On August 09 2010 16:13 aimaimaim wrote:
lol people are so hyped about amateurs playing .. while making this tournament MIGHT bring up SC2 in korea, its still very very VERY early to say this is gonna replace BW as the next gen eSport big-timer .. We watch organized leagues because the games are awesome. players have great experience with the game to deliver a great and ENTERTAINING match. amateurs playing a 2-week old game with that kind of pot money only tells us 1 thing .. "forget about BW, we got better prize money and its open for everyone. you dont need BW" .. its like blizzard shoving SC2 in people's asses

There are no SC2 pro's right now. The hype is not over seeing amateur players play, it is about the growth of ESPORTS. BW will perhaps last, but there is no growth to be found. SC2 is new and fresh, and you may not like it but that is a key component that is required. If there would be a tourney with a 5000 dollar prize pool it would not get any hype and there is much less of a chance to see the best of the best compete. The huge prize pool will guarantee that those will play, and they already have months of beta playtime under their belt, plus a lot of experience with BW. You can't discredit a tourney organization's for trying. You can however whine about the damage this will do to BW's presence as an esport. (edit: typo)


making a new "kespa"?
monopolizing the league?

I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're introducing new arguments.
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
sure as hell another big e-sport on the way ..

and its gonna hurt BW? im not ticked off if its gonna hurt BW .. im gonna be ticked off because of we had a great spectator sport and these companies is going to close it down because the bigger companies want to generate more money. and im not saying dont give SC2 a chance .. id give it a try and id be happy as fuck if its gonna succeed .. but what if it doesnt because koreans hated SC2/Blizzard and watching foreign scene isn't really great? and BW died in the process??

what im whining here is that blizzard hides with the "growth of esport" where they try to destroy the best esport scene just so they can generate more money ..

You claim that BW is not gonna get hurt? You are whining about this hurting BW as en ESPORTS. Rather than disagreeing with me, your post confirms what I wrote.
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and you talk about growth .. BW has always been growing, and it will never stop. it will only stop growing if its gonna get killed by companies wishing only money .. the foreign scene just think its not growing anymore because SC2 is around the corner and they think they can have a fresh chance against them and they are such pussies that they dont even try to beat koreans.

The BW ESPORTS scene has been very constant in size for at least a couple of years. there's the proleague, MSL en OSL. The number of teams has been the same since a long time. And outside of this world, sure there's tourneys and clans but it's very limited, money wise (which is a valid way to measure, even though you might want to disagree with that).
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
idra for example, he had a great start, really admirable, living his dream of becoming a progamer, and now he is in korea, playing in a proteam, and he already played 2 televised game. BW is still big, now he tries a new game, gambling his foothold for a game with uncertain future.

Okay so now you change direction and say you're worried about IdrA?
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 09:01 aimaimaim wrote:
and gambling is great but if the speculations are true that this was only a front by blizzard to generate money .. then i dont see it as a Growth yet .. remember that the 1st televised SC:BW game in korea was a test run .. it wasn't forced .. there weren't any huge-ass pot money .. SC:BW was aired so that koreans television viewers will increase ..

Every company involved in ESPORTS, every single one of them, is in it for the money. Either directly from sales related to ESPORTS itself, or as a form of advertisement, hopefully with net positive effect. That's what companies do, try to make a profit. For this to work, though, a game has to grab eyeballs and that's where the 'new and fresh' comes in. (Yes I still enjoy watching BW vods. But many people, 'regulars', have a strange aversion.)



new arguement?? here it is

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142743

2nd .. your point is actually valid if your point, from what i understand, is that "SC2 will become a successful game and it will take over BW because its popular .. its a great spectator sport", sure no problem there .. i would dig that but what i mean was blizzard forcing OGN/MBC to stop televising BW because THEY DONT WANT BW ANYMORE yet THE FANS STILL WANT IT .. its might be fun to play but its not a great spectator sport .. maybe because players are still amatuer but i have no beef with that .. i have beef with the companies TRY TO KILL SOMETHING MAJESTIC ..

3rd i couldn't care less about the foreign scene .. most are compose of upstarts who think they can do big with a fresh game and still get pawned by koreans .. some are great people .. BUT i really love the DotA scene especially chinese but thats another type of esport ..

4th Idra is just an example of a foreigner with balls .. him, and draco .. but im more focusing on idra because he switched to SC2 ..

5th the current companies sponsoring BW have clear intentions .. no hidden agenda .. giving out great games and getting payed in the process .. on the other hand, blizzard is killing something ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
August 10 2010 12:49 GMT
#92
@aimaimaim

1st. I don't know how the monopoly on this is going to turn out. That's a matter of wait and see. There has been quite some badmouthing between blizzard and Kespa about legal matters. And there's the history of Kespa claiming rights regarding BW, which was a dubious move. Blizzard is making a move towards the ESPORTS scene with SC2 and has business interests in this, that is clear. It's up to them to shoot themselves in the foot or not.

2nd. That feels like paranoia to me. Blizzard is taking no action at all regarding BW and Kespa. That they are promoting SC2 in the way they do has an indirect effect on BW and you nor I know how big of an effect this will be. Like I said, there is no better way than to promote a game as an ESPORTS than by having an important tourney. A big prize pool means importance. Prestige as a measure of importance will come later when history has been established. You can't blame them for trying to promote SC2.

3rd. You are talking about SC growing. How else will it grow other than in the foreign scene? Korea is saturated.

4th. Blizzard doe snot pay IdrA for the switch. (okay, that's what I assume, maybe they did ;-) )

5th. euh.. sure. Companies are in it for a profit. As long as BW gets a good viewer rating, they'll be there. If companies have to choose between BW and SC2, for sponsoring, then indeed the appearance of SC2 can have an effect. I am not denying that. I would like to see Blizzard doing more than this Korean oriented tournament. All the while, I hope BW will keep on going as it is going.

The main issue I had with your original post was how you're talking down the tournament and people who are hyped up. I was responding with a reason behind the hype. And justifying/rationalizing Blizzard's move.
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
August 11 2010 00:19 GMT
#93
On August 10 2010 21:49 Badjas wrote:
@aimaimaim

1st. I don't know how the monopoly on this is going to turn out. That's a matter of wait and see. There has been quite some badmouthing between blizzard and Kespa about legal matters. And there's the history of Kespa claiming rights regarding BW, which was a dubious move. Blizzard is making a move towards the ESPORTS scene with SC2 and has business interests in this, that is clear. It's up to them to shoot themselves in the foot or not.

2nd. That feels like paranoia to me. Blizzard is taking no action at all regarding BW and Kespa. That they are promoting SC2 in the way they do has an indirect effect on BW and you nor I know how big of an effect this will be. Like I said, there is no better way than to promote a game as an ESPORTS than by having an important tourney. A big prize pool means importance. Prestige as a measure of importance will come later when history has been established. You can't blame them for trying to promote SC2.

3rd. You are talking about SC growing. How else will it grow other than in the foreign scene? Korea is saturated.

4th. Blizzard doe snot pay IdrA for the switch. (okay, that's what I assume, maybe they did ;-) )

5th. euh.. sure. Companies are in it for a profit. As long as BW gets a good viewer rating, they'll be there. If companies have to choose between BW and SC2, for sponsoring, then indeed the appearance of SC2 can have an effect. I am not denying that. I would like to see Blizzard doing more than this Korean oriented tournament. All the while, I hope BW will keep on going as it is going.

The main issue I had with your original post was how you're talking down the tournament and people who are hyped up. I was responding with a reason behind the hype. And justifying/rationalizing Blizzard's move.


it has already started .. they will try to kill BW .. with this so much hype, and with BW broadcast is put to a halt .. BW will die out and SC2 might not make a great esport .. im saying is that the foreign scene doesnt have what it takes to have a good esport scene, atleast on US/EU anyway, but not really in Asia .. growth is uncertain, but the way blizzard delivers their "vision of esport" it seems, to them, that they are the key to have a great international scene which is bullshit. thats why they are monopolizing everything .. also, korea isnt saturated .. its just growing slowly .. foreign scene might not be saturated, but its really uncertain. thats why there aren't any "GSL" like theme in the foreign scene.

also take note about the US/EU proscene regarding RTS outside korea/china. its pretty poor. building from scratch isn't blizzard's idea of esport. they are in it for the money alone, and doesn't give a damn about the fans. korean proscene on the other hand, like i said, gives us great games and getting payed in the process. i dont care who holds the copyrights. fuck that. as long as great esport is broadcasted im fine.

SC2 games NOW aren't worth the pot money being thrown by Blizzard/GSL. a 2week+ game with all the amateur playing. its a sight for sore eyes.
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
August 11 2010 03:57 GMT
#94
I'm impressed. seems like they really know what they are doing. online preliminaries would only decrease the tournaments credibility since anyone can cheat, hack, etc.
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11046 Posts
August 11 2010 06:21 GMT
#95
Awesome. I have mixed feelings about their statement about ' if you're not good enough to qualify you're hardly a progamer'.

What makes professional leagues so attractive is that you develop a rapport with a certain "cast" of players. Their drama and their tale gives the game a bit more significance than if someone you don't know is playing. Sure, we can all appreciate moments of brilliance, but moments of brilliance are just that, moments.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
August 11 2010 13:26 GMT
#96
@aimaimaim, Blizzard and esports/sc2 fans share a common interest, which is getting lift-off of SC2. You keep pitching it as an evil move against BW, but there's no specific action against BW, however as a side effect it could suffer. Blizzard isn't alone in wanting big tourneys for SC2, but perhaps you don't agree with that (reasoning that BW is likely to suffer, which I see as a valid position to hold). As my original point was, the money isn't thrown around because of the quality of the players, but as a means of getting lift-off. And I believe your usage of that proverb 'sight for sore eyes' is used wrong there but that's just for your info

I hope SC2 and BW can coexist, but I would prefer SC2 to get worldwide development over BW staying stable as an ESPORTS only in Korea. If I have to choose between the two.
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
HeadhunteR
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Argentina1258 Posts
August 11 2010 15:09 GMT
#97
I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW
in The Kong line forever
imperator-xy
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Germany1366 Posts
August 11 2010 22:43 GMT
#98
On August 12 2010 00:09 HeadhunteR wrote:
I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW


it will, if it wouldnt then esport was going to die in korea


sc2 isnt to hurt scbw. sc2 is just to grow esports. scbw has no potential to grow so with scbw we will never see things like esports world cups.
sc2 is a whole new chance for esports. a chance that may not come ever again
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
August 12 2010 03:03 GMT
#99
On August 12 2010 07:43 imperator-xy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2010 00:09 HeadhunteR wrote:
I still dont know why some people believe that more than 100 people (pro gamers, commentators, coaches, managers etc.. ) will lose their job overnight, if the ratings are good then there is no way BW will not be televised. Stop thinking sc2 will replace BW


it will, if it wouldnt then esport was going to die in korea


sc2 isnt to hurt scbw. sc2 is just to grow esports. scbw has no potential to grow so with scbw we will never see things like esports world cups.
sc2 is a whole new chance for esports. a chance that may not come ever again


have no potential to grow? why do i keep on seeing these arguements .. BW is still growing slowly .. the foreign scene thinks its dying because they cant seem to penetrate the leagues with their low skill capacity .. Idra, back when he was still playing BW, is an example of what foreigners must do so that they can penetrate any proscene.


"esports world cups" uhmm lets see .. WCG ANYONE????

seeing as to how koreans hate SC2 and yet koreans still own the best foreigners out there and you think RTS esport can be big outside?
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
jambonkingcool
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada186 Posts
August 13 2010 05:09 GMT
#100
I don't understand why people complain because anyone can participate in the GSL. I think the skill level will be as high in GSL as it is in the current BW scene, even if players don't need a licence to play. The best players will certainly find sponsors, just like they did in BW, and then they'll have all day to practice SC2 if they wish too.

I certainly believe the SC2 proscene will be established fast. It can't happen to turn into an amateur tournament like WCG, it just can't. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the current proteams have some players in the GSL '11.
viraltouch
Profile Joined July 2010
United States299 Posts
August 13 2010 23:58 GMT
#101
I'm seeing GSL as Blizzard's coup against KESPA for everything that it didn't turn out for them.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
August 14 2010 22:25 GMT
#102
Good news, one big league is definitely the best way to run it. Better ranking and a true "best player". Thanks milkis for the translation!
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
bias-
Profile Joined October 2004
United States410 Posts
August 16 2010 19:28 GMT
#103
I can't believe how many people's comments are in favor of this plan. In my opinion e-sports in Korea (the largest e-sports culture in any country) will be crushed by the selfishness of Blizzard and Gretech. Less sponsors, less professionalism, more money-grubbing, and an overall weakened community in the long-term. Yeah there's a lot of people excited about SC2 after only buying the game a few weeks ago - but that's not what TL is about.

When will people see that the twist in Blizzard/Activision, their terrible relations with Korean e-sports culture/fans, and bad battle.net interface?

Blizz obviously is trying to kill SC:BW leagues to promote SC2 and the one and only league for it that it happens to run.

Great graphics, shiny story, good gameplay, but no one seems to care about what made TL what it is in the past.
For serious minds, a bias recognized is a bias sterilized.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 20:49:48
August 16 2010 20:48 GMT
#104
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote:
Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/

On August 07 2010 16:54 SkelA wrote:
Rater than the broadcasts, GSL's goal is for the success of Starcraft 2

Preety much as expected. Indeed blizzard is sponsoring theese tours for one and only purpose and thats selling copies of SC2. But its a step back for the e-sport scene.


How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports?


BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague.

SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs"

There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off.

GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments.

Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete.


So it makes sense that SC2 needs to evolve the same way BW did.

People need to remember that SC2 is a different game. There isn't a big pool of players ready to just be professional SC2 players and there isn't a bunch of corporations ready to shell out money to support teams and players like this yet.. The scene needs to grow. The game hasn't even been out for a month.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
August 19 2010 03:50 GMT
#105
This has been said somewhere else, and I think it is true.
"Quality --> Passion --> Money

NOT

Money --> Passion --> Quality"

SC2 is just a fad that will fade away in a year or two because it is a terrible spectator sport.

BW will continue to grow(OSL finals in Shanghai anyone? Chinese market is huge am I right?).
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 04:25:05
August 19 2010 04:08 GMT
#106
AFAIK, people in China don't pay that much attention to SC anymore. It's all Dota now.

This is especially the case since there hasn't been a truly good Chinese SC player since PJ. I imagine that it's much like the foreigner BW scene where there's still some people going at it and fans of pro-gamers, etc. But if there was going to be a major expansion it'd have happened by now.

People just need to accept that SC 2 is likely going to be the next big thing, at least internationally. Can't say how long it'll last, but judging by Blizzard's release schedule it'd probably last at least 3 more years.
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