EPT[Interview] The Philosophy of the GSL - Page 3
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 07 2010 19:02 AyJay wrote: Can't wait, still no news about english commentary =/ How the hell is having huge ass tournament is step back for e-sports? BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague. SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs" There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off. GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments. Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete. | ||
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Maul
Australia130 Posts
On August 07 2010 16:12 LegendaryZ wrote: + Show Spoiler + I honestly don't think this philosophy is sustainable for the long term. The organization and league format/rules that KeSPA had in place is part of what gave the professional BW scene the stability that it had over the years. There were familiar faces and familiar teams you'd be guaranteed to see and fans could be attracted to and develop a "relationship" with. These teams in turn would make money in various ways to sponsor the players to allow them to actually sustain themselves on gaming. And you wouldn't have to place in the top to get paid either. Gretech has moved away from this and instead, turned the GSL into a glorified global amateur battle royale. There are no set teams or facilities, players may or may not be sponsored, and there's nothing to distinguish pros from amateurs. If the goal is to legitimize eSports and make it more professional, I really don't see this as a way to do it... Imagine if the BW scene adopted this. Instantly the vast majority of current pro gamers would have to quit since only a small number of them would win any prize money at all, much less enough to live off. But then again, from the way things look, eSports development is not really the point. I don't think Gretech has any real interest in developing the eSport, but rather doing what they can to make SC2 more popular and then selling licenses to others who may be interested in developing it. Assuming that's the actual goal, I suppose this philosophy works fine for that purpose since it makes everyone feel like they have a chance. In the end, though, it looks like it's probably going to end up being another KeSPA type of organization to create an actual pro scene from this game. Well take a look at televised poker. The great appeal of poker is that even an amateur has a shot at beating a pro. In StarCraft this is different because it's based more so on skill and generally there's less luck involved. However, StarCraft 2 is free to play (apart from buying the game of course) and will attract new players with aspirations to be the best just as poker does. Heaps of people watch the poker pros and think "man, playing poker for a living would be cool", and now it's a bit more reachable for everyday people, at least in their minds. This leads to more StarCraft 2 players and more sales for Blizzard. Would Elky still of quit BW for poker if there was $85k up from grabs each month in StarCraft? In a tournament like the WSOP for example, thousands of players enter and most you'll never hear of, but there's still the pros that get focused on and stand out, each with their own sponsors, typically another cardroom ie Pokerstars or Full Tilt. The same could work for this style of "everyone's allowed" tournament, where there will be heaps of good players but there will still be those that dominate and/or have tonnes of charisma, and they will stand out. These players will attract sponsors just like teams do with Brood War. An example would be if an unknown player makes it to the semi-finals, all a company like AMD, nvidia, intel, razor etc would have to do is say, "We'll give you a couple of grand if you wear our patch/uniform when you play your next game". The player makes even more money and the sponsor gets potentially hundreds of thousands of views for cheap advertising. Poker and StarCraft 2 are different games (sports), but I see no reason why StarCraft 2 will be hurt by this open format. We'll just have to see. | ||
Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote: BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague. SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs" There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off. GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments. Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete. You draw the wildest conclusions. This is week 2 and who knows what is to come. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On August 07 2010 22:54 Milkis wrote: BW evolved from amateur leagues/tournaments -> Proleague. SC2 is now saying "screw professional teams, we're going back to deal with amateurs" There's a very good reason why you want professional teams sponsored by corporations. You won't really have that with this system. There's many advantages to BW's system, it's kinda sad that they only look at the so called "down sides" of it and brush it off. GSL's system in the end is very similar to BW's system except it's only a little bit more accessible to amateurs and now pro players are going to have a harder time earning a living. Yeah, it's 1.2 billion Won, but that's NOTHING when you think about how it needs to be distributed to everyone who wants to earn an actual living as a progamer, not just win one or two tournaments. Basically, we're going back to the times were progamers are back in their tiny cramped apartments eating ramen all day in order to compete. Or it develops into real proteams like cs 1.6 has (MyM/SK/Fnatic) where the top players get saleries and travels the worlds to compete in global events. I'll take that any time over the current SC:BW scene, while great in itself, I want to see a global scene. The western world is not fit for the culture or system the korean esport scene has. I want to see players like Nony travel to korea and play against Maka in the grand finals. Or SK-gaming facing off against Liquid in the clan leagues final in a LAN in germany. I can definantly see that happening in the not-so-distant future. | ||
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Zafrumi
Switzerland1272 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Skill > all. | ||
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Keype
Sweden455 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 07 2010 23:28 Chill wrote: You draw the wildest conclusions. This is week 2 and who knows what is to come. I don't know why you keep trying to call me out on this, but I draw conclusions based on the evidence out there. I'd like you to tell me why my conclusions are "wild" based on GSL's philosphy instead of just accusing me of such. | ||
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dolpiff
France300 Posts
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Rewera
Poland354 Posts
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VTC
United States1 Post
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waffling1
599 Posts
The GSL, depending on the results from the open contests, will be divided into two leagues. 1st place to 36th place is divided into 8 groups in the Code S league, and 33th place to 96th place participates in the Code A league, which is a round of 64 tournament. that "36th place" should be "32nd place" ___________ Ro 32, + Ro 64. 33-96th place is A league | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 08 2010 09:37 waffling1 wrote: TYPO that "36th place" should be "32nd place" ___________ Ro 32, + Ro 64. 33-96th place is A league That's actually a Typo made in the original article. I'll make a note for it, however. | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On August 07 2010 16:12 LegendaryZ wrote: I honestly don't think this philosophy is sustainable for the long term. The organization and league format/rules that KeSPA had in place is part of what gave the professional BW scene the stability that it had over the years. There were familiar faces and familiar teams you'd be guaranteed to see and fans could be attracted to and develop a "relationship" with. These teams in turn would make money in various ways to sponsor the players to allow them to actually sustain themselves on gaming. And you wouldn't have to place in the top to get paid either. Gretech has moved away from this and instead, turned the GSL into a glorified global amateur battle royale. There are no set teams or facilities, players may or may not be sponsored, and there's nothing to distinguish pros from amateurs. If the goal is to legitimize eSports and make it more professional, I really don't see this as a way to do it... Imagine if the BW scene adopted this. Instantly the vast majority of current pro gamers would have to quit since only a small number of them would win any prize money at all, much less enough to live off. But then again, from the way things look, eSports development is not really the point. I don't think Gretech has any real interest in developing the eSport, but rather doing what they can to make SC2 more popular and then selling licenses to others who may be interested in developing it. Assuming that's the actual goal, I suppose this philosophy works fine for that purpose since it makes everyone feel like they have a chance. In the end, though, it looks like it's probably going to end up being another KeSPA type of organization to create an actual pro scene from this game. Most individual sports that work under this framework. Players make money from prizes and individual sponsorship. In a sense it is less stable for the players: snooker is bigger than BW, yet only about 50-100 players make enough to be considered full time pros. However, having no artificial barriers between pros and amateurs has a lot of advantages too. It does encourage less successful players to leave the game earlier. It gives players more control over their training schedule. It possibly even allows people to compete as semi-pros. In general the players will get more freedom and less stability. No more free agency bullshit, but no team houses either. | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
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Qwerty.
United States292 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 08 2010 15:41 Qwerty. wrote: Everyone read MrHoon's blog on SC2 in Korea NOW. I read it and found nothing great about it: 1. GomTV sux we need Kespa 2. We need Lan 3. System requirements are too high basically. | ||
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