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On June 01 2010 07:28 professorjoak wrote:
KeSPA has done big things for Korea, but as long as they're running the show they'll contribute nothing to esports outside of Korea.
On June 01 2010 07:41 Trozz wrote:
"Korea eSports"
It's never "Worldwide eSports"
They are doomed to fail.
why should KeSPA(Korean e-Sports Players Association) be responsible for a esports in a foreign country?
If Esport developed well if any country, sooner or later, there will be a (X)eSPA in that country.
and I think that (X)eSPA will win, even if (X)espa is disbanded, as long as the sponsers play a major role in Esports, they will form a new organisation doing the same thing as (X)espa,that is, protecting their interest.
KeSPA's interest is to have more viewer on their matches so that sponser have a better exposure in the public , Blizzard's goal is to make more money as any other company does.
if I have to choose, KeSPA is clearly the lesser evil.
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I know I'm not the only one here who is conflicted over this but I absolutely feel like I have to decide on the lesser of two evils, and at this point I feel like that would be KeSPA...
Now this is certainly not over. I am very skeptical that the entire existing framework of proleague and the individual leagues will be destroyed by all this, I think it is more likely that this is a tactic by Blizzard to try to get some compensation out of KeSPA for the right to keep doing it. If Blizzard asks for too much it is entirely likely that KeSPA will just say "screw you we're going to continue anyway", and if we are talking exclusively about SC1 then I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that whatever governing bodies exist to handle these things in Korea just let them do it, whether by passively turning a blind eye to Blizzards complaints, or actively ruling against them.
If we are talking about SC2 and GOM having rights to show it and the like the waters are a little murkier. But I do think ultimately it comes down to Blizzard taking a calculated risk. It is possible that they are even thinking that the more they demand originally the more they will be seen to be giving up if/when a compromise is reached. I think that ultimately, in Korea, Blizzard will have to acknowledge that there are powerful people working against them and they are unlikely to get as much control as they likely will (rightly or wrongly) in the rest of the world.
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On June 01 2010 08:10 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 08:06 tenpromicro wrote:On June 01 2010 02:40 Drunken Argument wrote:
2) They control the future (SC2).
It is entirely possible that Blizzard will lose the SC1 argument and KeSPA will remain in complete control of the scene and broadcasting rights. Unfortunately for KeSPA, that victory will be short-lived. In light of the recent events, I’m sure Blizzard has already included clauses in SC2’s EULA that prevent broadcasting of their games without their permission. Assuming that is the case, Blizzard can give GOM the rights as the sole broadcaster of SC2 and hope that the popularity of the new game will force other sponsors into abandoning KeSPA for the new GOM league.
What would prevent KeSPA from simply starting their own SC2 league? Battle Net 2.0. Since there is no LAN play in SC2, all games must be played on Blizzard’s servers. This gives Blizzard the opportunity to shut down any account that is being used in an illegal broadcast. KeSPA would never be allowed to broadcast any of their games.
In conclusion, Blizzard is the most likely controller of the future of Korean SC eSports. While I promised that would not moralize on who is right or wrong in this matter, I will say this. I do not think Blizzard’s actions will be the end of eSports. In America alone, nearly every national league has a private company that controls the broadcasting rights to the sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.). Blizzard is trying to establish their own kind of organization through their partnership with GOM. While the eSports of the future might have a very different face on it that the eSports of now, there will still likely be eSports.
Two things: 1. If KeSPA doesn't release the names of the accounts on BNet 2.0, how can Blizzard find out what the account names are? For example, if the games were broadcasted 30 minutes after the actual matches with the account names edited out, what is Blizzard's course of action? The Korean government favors KeSPA. The reason why Blizzard couldn't sue for SC1 rights in Korea was because the Korean government told them to just deal with KeSPA. If Blizzard tries to sue in Korea again--even with their new contract with GOM-- what makes you think that the Korean government will enforce any sort of judgment on KeSPA? The Korean government spends a fair amount of time in the development of eSports and gaming in general because it is a big part of their economy. It is highly doubtful that they will allow Blizzard to just swoop in and swipe the sport off their feet and bring it back to square one. 2. No one is saying that Blizzard's involvement is going to be the end of eSports. It's just going to be the end of eSports as we know it. It's just going to take a bit of time to get it back to what it previously was. Pardon my double post (in case theres no new one before I post this), but to answer your second paragraph. Since Blizzard gave the rights to GOM, it's now a Korean company that KeSPA would be infringing on. It's no longer American versus Korean law. The Korean government has an obligation to protect the rights of GOM against KeSPA, and the Korean Copyright Laws can now be used to that effect.
This isn't correct at all. Just the fact two companies made an agreement does not make that agreement legal in and of itself. Realistically, Korean courts could easily strike it down by saying Blizzard is trying to sell something that it doesn't actually own.
Actually, I'd take this as far as saying that I'm upset KeSPA is even willing to pay royalties in this situation. Not only will siphoning money out of the scene directly impact the players in a negative fashion, it's also bad for eSports in the long run. Giving the developer rights to royalties is unrealistic given all the other benefits they gather from having their game as a popular eSport, and means it's going to be that much harder to eventually make a solid foundation for eSports to stand on.
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On June 01 2010 08:06 tenpromicro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:40 Drunken Argument wrote:
2) They control the future (SC2).
It is entirely possible that Blizzard will lose the SC1 argument and KeSPA will remain in complete control of the scene and broadcasting rights. Unfortunately for KeSPA, that victory will be short-lived. In light of the recent events, I’m sure Blizzard has already included clauses in SC2’s EULA that prevent broadcasting of their games without their permission. Assuming that is the case, Blizzard can give GOM the rights as the sole broadcaster of SC2 and hope that the popularity of the new game will force other sponsors into abandoning KeSPA for the new GOM league.
What would prevent KeSPA from simply starting their own SC2 league? Battle Net 2.0. Since there is no LAN play in SC2, all games must be played on Blizzard’s servers. This gives Blizzard the opportunity to shut down any account that is being used in an illegal broadcast. KeSPA would never be allowed to broadcast any of their games.
In conclusion, Blizzard is the most likely controller of the future of Korean SC eSports. While I promised that would not moralize on who is right or wrong in this matter, I will say this. I do not think Blizzard’s actions will be the end of eSports. In America alone, nearly every national league has a private company that controls the broadcasting rights to the sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.). Blizzard is trying to establish their own kind of organization through their partnership with GOM. While the eSports of the future might have a very different face on it that the eSports of now, there will still likely be eSports.
Two things: 1. If KeSPA doesn't release the names of the accounts on BNet 2.0, how can Blizzard find out what the account names are? For example, if the games were broadcasted 30 minutes after the actual matches with the account names edited out, what is Blizzard's course of action? The Korean government favors KeSPA. The reason why Blizzard couldn't sue for SC1 rights in Korea was because the Korean government told them to just deal with KeSPA. If Blizzard tries to sue in Korea again--even with their new contract with GOM-- what makes you think that the Korean government will enforce any sort of judgment on KeSPA? The Korean government spends a fair amount of time in the development of eSports and gaming in general because it is a big part of their economy. It is highly doubtful that they will allow Blizzard to just swoop in and swipe the sport off their feet and bring it back to square one. 2. No one is saying that Blizzard's involvement is going to be the end of eSports. It's just going to be the end of eSports as we know it. It's just going to take a bit of time to get it back to what it previously was.
1. I'm sure that progamers practicing 13 hours a day, every day, against the same people on a Korean server will be a pretty big tell. As for the actual televised matches, it is possible that if they switched identifiers every time for every game that Blizzard couldn't keep up with them. But I doubt they'd try to keep that up for long.
I agree that the actions of the Korean government in the past has favored KeSPA. But KeSPA capitalized on the legal ambiguity that existed before this debacle began. As I said before, it's entirely possible that KeSPA wins the SCBW argument. But if it's written right into the EULA for SC2 that they can't broadcast without Blizzard's permission, the Korean government would have to invalidate the EULA for every copy of SC2 sold in Korea to allow KeSPA to continue, sending the message to every international company working in Korea that it can break contracts willy-nilly. Not happening.
2. I agree.
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If its just a matter of GOM playing binding arbiter between kespa and blizzard then I think things could go very smoothly from here.
If GOM goes for the power play, things will stay ugly.
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I like starcraft and most stuff blizz makes but this verison of blizzard is full of Bull s***
kespa wrong on there part to but blizz is greedy and they really do not care about the people that made there game popular with out us fans and players a like who would care about starcraft.
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Remember, blizzard gave GOMtv to broadcast, but if gomtv allows other companies to broadcast for a fee, this will be possible. So maybe we could be seeing a gomtv kespa deal for korea specifically if gomtv offers it. It's too early. Give it a year.
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On May 31 2010 20:08 Kuja900 wrote:
Poetic justice imo for KeSPA shutting down the GOM leagues by making their teams refuse to play, if it wasnt for that I'd side with KeSPA but I just cannot forgive that.
instead you would be rather content with blizzards attempt to destroy the BW scene?
no way, kespa are fucking douchebags no doubt, but blizzard is just destroying the scale of that word.
its like in top gear and the cockometer.
kespa is like the mercedez AMG (high on the meter in the red level of cock)
blizzard[activition] is like the BMW M3, broke the machine because of its inability to measure how much of a cock they are being.
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On June 01 2010 07:28 professorjoak wrote:
KeSPA has done big things for Korea, but as long as they're running the show they'll contribute nothing to esports outside of Korea.
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On June 01 2010 10:07 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:28 professorjoak wrote:
KeSPA has done big things for Korea, but as long as they're running the show they'll contribute nothing to esports outside of Korea.
why should K(orean)eSPA contribute to esport outside of Korea?
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No really? Why state the obvious. It's 'Korean' e-Sports fill-in-the-blank." That isn't part of their mandate bud. If you want to compete in their leagues then you have to play by their rules whether you like it or not.
This is only one sector and it is arguably the biggest.
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I cannot believe KeSPA actually compared Starcraft to an Adidas' soccer ball. If I'm one of the makers of Starcraft I would be seriously hurt and stop negotiating right away.
KeSPA has been arrogant for too long, they need to realize their position now. If Adidas has any unreasonable demand to FIFA regarding the right to use their balls, FIFA will simply say fuck you and switch to Nike or a million ball producers around. KeSPA just doesn't have that fucking option! They need to realize that if they TRULY "work for the players and the fans", they are the one that should step back in this fight.
Which is sadly probably not going to happen, given KeSPA's history of incompetency, hypocrisy and short-sighted vision.
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On June 01 2010 08:59 Drunken Argument wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 08:06 tenpromicro wrote:On June 01 2010 02:40 Drunken Argument wrote:
2) They control the future (SC2).
It is entirely possible that Blizzard will lose the SC1 argument and KeSPA will remain in complete control of the scene and broadcasting rights. Unfortunately for KeSPA, that victory will be short-lived. In light of the recent events, I’m sure Blizzard has already included clauses in SC2’s EULA that prevent broadcasting of their games without their permission. Assuming that is the case, Blizzard can give GOM the rights as the sole broadcaster of SC2 and hope that the popularity of the new game will force other sponsors into abandoning KeSPA for the new GOM league.
What would prevent KeSPA from simply starting their own SC2 league? Battle Net 2.0. Since there is no LAN play in SC2, all games must be played on Blizzard’s servers. This gives Blizzard the opportunity to shut down any account that is being used in an illegal broadcast. KeSPA would never be allowed to broadcast any of their games.
In conclusion, Blizzard is the most likely controller of the future of Korean SC eSports. While I promised that would not moralize on who is right or wrong in this matter, I will say this. I do not think Blizzard’s actions will be the end of eSports. In America alone, nearly every national league has a private company that controls the broadcasting rights to the sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.). Blizzard is trying to establish their own kind of organization through their partnership with GOM. While the eSports of the future might have a very different face on it that the eSports of now, there will still likely be eSports.
Two things: 1. If KeSPA doesn't release the names of the accounts on BNet 2.0, how can Blizzard find out what the account names are? For example, if the games were broadcasted 30 minutes after the actual matches with the account names edited out, what is Blizzard's course of action? The Korean government favors KeSPA. The reason why Blizzard couldn't sue for SC1 rights in Korea was because the Korean government told them to just deal with KeSPA. If Blizzard tries to sue in Korea again--even with their new contract with GOM-- what makes you think that the Korean government will enforce any sort of judgment on KeSPA? The Korean government spends a fair amount of time in the development of eSports and gaming in general because it is a big part of their economy. It is highly doubtful that they will allow Blizzard to just swoop in and swipe the sport off their feet and bring it back to square one. 2. No one is saying that Blizzard's involvement is going to be the end of eSports. It's just going to be the end of eSports as we know it. It's just going to take a bit of time to get it back to what it previously was. 1. I'm sure that progamers practicing 13 hours a day, every day, against the same people on a Korean server will be a pretty big tell. As for the actual televised matches, it is possible that if they switched identifiers every time for every game that Blizzard couldn't keep up with them. But I doubt they'd try to keep that up for long.
I know we are going off in to a bit of a tangent, but the issue of account names can easily be bypassed. They can easily buy new copies of the game and create fresh accounts used for showmatches only.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
lots of foolish discussion in this thread
u guys are morons if you think blizzard is going to 'ruin' progaming etc
it will be fine lol
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Maybe, just maybe, Blizzard and GOM TV will allow Ongamenet and MBC to continue to broadcast BW after current Proleague season is over.
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On June 01 2010 10:31 Rekrul wrote:
lots of foolish discussion in this thread
u guys are morons if you think blizzard is going to 'ruin' progaming etc
it will be fine lol Does "progaming" include the survival of professional Broodwar?
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On June 01 2010 10:31 Rekrul wrote:
lots of foolish discussion in this thread
u guys are morons if you think blizzard is going to 'ruin' progaming etc
it will be fine lol
Yep I wonder why so many people came to that conclusion so quickly.
Actually, up to this point, the side that has clear proven record that they could 'ruin' programing is KeSPA.
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On June 01 2010 08:30 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Where will the money come from? Is blizzard going to pay these guys the money? If blizzard does pay bteamers the money and pay the A teamers and the staff their salaries with food and housing, then I will support blizzard 100%. If blizzard really wants an esports scene, it should speak with its money, not with its words. When I talk money, I'm not saying some random 50k tournament. I'm talking about investing millions of dollars each year into the players and the staff to bring us Esports.
I'd like to see blizzard pay them yes, I want it setup where the more popular and competitive pro SC gets, the more money they AND the players make. That would be perfect.
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On June 01 2010 10:39 domane wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, Blizzard and GOM TV will allow Ongamenet and MBC to continue to broadcast BW after current Proleague season is over.
Of course, why wouldn't they? As so many have pointed out how Blizzard does everything "just for money", as long as OGN and MBC could come up with a royalty deal with Blizzard/GOM, I don't see why Blizzard would stop any league.
Fans will lose nothing, OGN/MBC will lose nothing (they can use the money paying KeSPA for broadcasting rights to pay Blizzard). And as long as the leagues are still watched, there will be sponsors, and thus sponsored teams.
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If it did come down to the progame teams being unable to play matches, i wonder what would happen with all the player contracts. I mean, if Bisu or whoever has a contract to play SC1 for SKT for X amount of money and X amount of time, are they legally obligated to pay him even though they cant show the matches on tv etc?
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EPT
