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On June 01 2010 06:32 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 04:08 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:52 hacpee wrote:
Who will pay for the team's salaries? For the housing and food? Blizzard? If so, great. Maybe no one will, at first. That's fine. Players don't need to be paid salaries to produce great games of StarCraft. Honestly, they don't need to play 11-13 hours a day, either. Maybe they won't have perfect macro anymore, or perfectly-timed builds for every situation, but so what? Players 5+ years ago sucked compared to today -- hell, the best player at the time, Boxer, was known for having some of the worst macro of any of the high-level pros. But they were still fantastic to watch. Even now, there's no money in progaming for the vast majority of players. That wouldn't change. You just wouldn't be able to have houses of players who play 13 hours a day and don't have to pay for food. Maybe that would actually be for the better. Maybe we can rebuild an e-sports scene where the average progamer isn't a slave. It's 'fine' if the largest and most successful eSports scene just disintegrates overnight? You know, on the After Talk regarding match fixing they commented that there were 10 years of eSports they might have to completely rebuild because of the scandal. Somehow I don't think they would like for that thought to be as concrete as you suggest. Your posts in this thread completely perplex me. How exactly do you suggest conditions would improve in your scenario? Everyone would have 'real' jobs and play games on the side, or something? Would eSports be illegal? Will you ban people from tournaments if you find them practicing for more than 8 hours a day? This isn't about game quality, it's about the fact that most of us who support eSports do so because of a hope that one day it will be a respected profession (or at least one that you can live off of). The Korean scene is by far the closest we've ever come to that goal, and you're okay with destroying it for the benefit of the b-teamers. You want to kill it to save them. Sigh.
This. The bottom line to have a flourishing and successful esports scene is that a bottom line actually exists. Where will the cash come from? If they don't charge ticket for admission, then only sponsors can provide the money. If you take out kespa, which is the sponsors themselves, then the esports scene will just disintegrate, maybe into something like China's sc scene today. You have maybe 20ish semi-progamers in total competing at various tournaments for cash. The best ones may live on those prize, but the majority will win nothing at all, and eventually they all quit because they realize they gotta find a real job to survive.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 07:13 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:10 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Well you do pay them less than minimum wages in minor leagues! Better housing? Fair contracts? Huh? If it wasn't fair they wouldn't have signed it. Can you explain to me why they would agree to something they wouldn't find acceptable? Because they love the game they're willing to do certain things they wouldnt in normal circumstances....and in the minor leagues you get enough for living expenses and can get more money without even being in the pros by going to AAA and redoing your contract. Why do you think just because someone agrees to something that they think it's fair? They probably are just hoping they can make it big and not have to worry about the unfair contract. Stop trying to make excuses for why its ok to not even get paid for what they do.
I choose to volunteer a lot of my time on TeamLiquid. I am not paid. Suppose that I go a step further, and I choose to translate 40 hours a week. I agree to do this. I am not paid. I make a contract with the admin, saying that if I don't translate 40 hours a week, I can be banned. I agree to it.
Is that not fair?
What excuses am I making? The point is simple. If you don't like the conditions, you don't do it. Simple as that. Don't try to baby the progamers by going "aww how sad", and undermine their decisions by reminding them how "bad" it is. They're the one who agreed.
Yes, as long as they're not coerced to make an agreement, I can assume that any agreement is fair. When you say "they're just hoping they can make it big", isn't that just gambling?
It is absolutely okay. Just like it's okay for me to volunteer and not get paid wherever I want, it's okay for anyone else to spend their time at a progame team 13 hours a day to try to make it to the big leagues.
They love the game, so they're more willing to take price cuts. Why do you think plumbers are paid so much? No one wants to do it. Similarly, if there's a lot of people who wants to do it, wage goes down, conditions remain stagnant. Even then there's an army of people wanting to do this.
Stop infantalizing progamers. They have made their decisions, we respect them for accepting such conditions and hope that they improve, but don't try to pretend like they didn't agree to it or something.
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KeSPA has done big things for Korea, but as long as they're running the show they'll contribute nothing to esports outside of Korea.
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The only thing I know is, that I won´t buy it until there is some kind of agreement. If Esports is killed in total due to this, then I won´t buy any more Blizzard games anymore.
Somehow I assume, both is kinda impropable.
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"Korea eSports"
It's never "Worldwide eSports"
They are doomed to fail.
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On June 01 2010 07:23 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:13 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:10 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Well you do pay them less than minimum wages in minor leagues! Better housing? Fair contracts? Huh? If it wasn't fair they wouldn't have signed it. Can you explain to me why they would agree to something they wouldn't find acceptable? Because they love the game they're willing to do certain things they wouldnt in normal circumstances....and in the minor leagues you get enough for living expenses and can get more money without even being in the pros by going to AAA and redoing your contract. Why do you think just because someone agrees to something that they think it's fair? They probably are just hoping they can make it big and not have to worry about the unfair contract. Stop trying to make excuses for why its ok to not even get paid for what they do. I choose to volunteer a lot of my time on TeamLiquid. I am not paid. Suppose that I go a step further, and I choose to translate 40 hours a week. I agree to do this. I am not paid. I make a contract with the admin, saying that if I don't translate 40 hours a week, I can be banned. I agree to it. Is that not fair? What excuses am I making? The point is simple. If you don't like the conditions, you don't do it. Simple as that. Don't try to baby the progamers by going "aww how sad", and undermine their decisions by reminding them how "bad" it is. They're the one who agreed. Yes, as long as they're not coerced to make an agreement, I can assume that any agreement is fair. When you say "they're just hoping they can make it big", isn't that just gambling? It is absolutely okay. Just like it's okay for me to volunteer and not get paid wherever I want, it's okay for anyone else to spend their time at a progame team 13 hours a day to try to make it to the big leagues. They love the game, so they're more willing to take price cuts. Why do you think plumbers are paid so much? No one wants to do it. Similarly, if there's a lot of people who wants to do it, wage goes down, conditions remain stagnant. Even then there's an army of people wanting to do this. Stop infantalizing progamers. They have made their decisions, we respect them for accepting such conditions and hope that they improve, but don't try to pretend like they didn't agree to it or something.
No its not ok, because pro starcraft is the only "pro sport" that doesnt doesnt pay its "farm league" players. Just because someone agrees to something doesnt mean its fair as much as it's something their willing to go through as a means to an end. Most pro gamers are closer to infants than adults these days. Many are still technically children anyways but treated and put on shedules MOST ADULTS dont even want to go through. KeSPA benefits off of them without paying them. Kinda seems messed up, but hey if you're cool with that then fine. I would just rather pay the players that make it possible for the entire esport to generate some money and exist. KeSPA can just burnout kids before they even start college constantly until they find one they can market and benefit from.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 07:47 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:23 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:13 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:10 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Well you do pay them less than minimum wages in minor leagues! Better housing? Fair contracts? Huh? If it wasn't fair they wouldn't have signed it. Can you explain to me why they would agree to something they wouldn't find acceptable? Because they love the game they're willing to do certain things they wouldnt in normal circumstances....and in the minor leagues you get enough for living expenses and can get more money without even being in the pros by going to AAA and redoing your contract. Why do you think just because someone agrees to something that they think it's fair? They probably are just hoping they can make it big and not have to worry about the unfair contract. Stop trying to make excuses for why its ok to not even get paid for what they do. I choose to volunteer a lot of my time on TeamLiquid. I am not paid. Suppose that I go a step further, and I choose to translate 40 hours a week. I agree to do this. I am not paid. I make a contract with the admin, saying that if I don't translate 40 hours a week, I can be banned. I agree to it. Is that not fair? What excuses am I making? The point is simple. If you don't like the conditions, you don't do it. Simple as that. Don't try to baby the progamers by going "aww how sad", and undermine their decisions by reminding them how "bad" it is. They're the one who agreed. Yes, as long as they're not coerced to make an agreement, I can assume that any agreement is fair. When you say "they're just hoping they can make it big", isn't that just gambling? It is absolutely okay. Just like it's okay for me to volunteer and not get paid wherever I want, it's okay for anyone else to spend their time at a progame team 13 hours a day to try to make it to the big leagues. They love the game, so they're more willing to take price cuts. Why do you think plumbers are paid so much? No one wants to do it. Similarly, if there's a lot of people who wants to do it, wage goes down, conditions remain stagnant. Even then there's an army of people wanting to do this. Stop infantalizing progamers. They have made their decisions, we respect them for accepting such conditions and hope that they improve, but don't try to pretend like they didn't agree to it or something. No its not ok, because pro starcraft is the only "pro sport" that doesnt doesnt pay its "farm league" players. Just because someone agrees to something doesnt mean its fair as much as it's something their willing to go through as a means to an end. Most pro gamers are closer to infants than adults these days. Many are still technically children anyways but treated and put on shedules MOST ADULTS dont even want to go through. KeSPA benefits off of them without paying them. Kinda seems messed up, but hey if you're cool with that then fine. I would just rather pay the players that make it possible for the entire esport to generate some money and exist. KeSPA can just burnout kids before they even start college constantly until they find one they can market and benefit from.
They pay for room and boarding and food. Sounds like payment to me.
Can you define what you mean by "fair" cause I don't really get it and I bet it's really idealistic.
What's messed up about it? You need to explain. I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all.
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On June 01 2010 04:19 Bill307 wrote:Even so, I don't think they have to be perfect to be entertaining. The TSLs are great example of how entertaining non-slave SC and SC2 players can be.  Edit: relatedly: Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 04:16 iounas wrote:
Why would players keep playing if only few top players are winning all prize money..
It will become a hobby then and hobby is opposite of pro gaming. Edit 2: Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 04:16 hacpee wrote:
So you're saying you'd rather have players at the level of Therock rather than Stork? If you enjoy watching that, I don't know what to say? I guess you guys must really dislike the TSL, then. All those hobby players must be an eye-sore! No, because people who watch both Korean (PL/OSL/MSL) and foreigner (TSL, as well as other tournaments) have different expectations, depending on what they're tuning into.
I enjoyed what I saw of TSL2 because I knew these players were the best of the Americas, Europe, and Taiwan (added because of Sen). They bring prestige to the game.
Just because some people would rather see someone like Stork than Rock in the Proleague, doesn't mean they don't appreciate individuals you describe as "hobby" players - top players outside of Korea.
On June 01 2010 04:32 Bill307 wrote:I have to respect the balls it takes to dis the TSL on TLnet.  So you guys expect nothing less than 13-hours-a-day-pros when you want to enjoy a game of SC? Well, to each his own. You shouldn't put words into people's mouths. No one said they expected TSL participants to have the same level of play as Korean SL participants.
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On June 01 2010 07:53 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:47 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:23 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:13 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:10 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Well you do pay them less than minimum wages in minor leagues! Better housing? Fair contracts? Huh? If it wasn't fair they wouldn't have signed it. Can you explain to me why they would agree to something they wouldn't find acceptable? Because they love the game they're willing to do certain things they wouldnt in normal circumstances....and in the minor leagues you get enough for living expenses and can get more money without even being in the pros by going to AAA and redoing your contract. Why do you think just because someone agrees to something that they think it's fair? They probably are just hoping they can make it big and not have to worry about the unfair contract. Stop trying to make excuses for why its ok to not even get paid for what they do. I choose to volunteer a lot of my time on TeamLiquid. I am not paid. Suppose that I go a step further, and I choose to translate 40 hours a week. I agree to do this. I am not paid. I make a contract with the admin, saying that if I don't translate 40 hours a week, I can be banned. I agree to it. Is that not fair? What excuses am I making? The point is simple. If you don't like the conditions, you don't do it. Simple as that. Don't try to baby the progamers by going "aww how sad", and undermine their decisions by reminding them how "bad" it is. They're the one who agreed. Yes, as long as they're not coerced to make an agreement, I can assume that any agreement is fair. When you say "they're just hoping they can make it big", isn't that just gambling? It is absolutely okay. Just like it's okay for me to volunteer and not get paid wherever I want, it's okay for anyone else to spend their time at a progame team 13 hours a day to try to make it to the big leagues. They love the game, so they're more willing to take price cuts. Why do you think plumbers are paid so much? No one wants to do it. Similarly, if there's a lot of people who wants to do it, wage goes down, conditions remain stagnant. Even then there's an army of people wanting to do this. Stop infantalizing progamers. They have made their decisions, we respect them for accepting such conditions and hope that they improve, but don't try to pretend like they didn't agree to it or something. No its not ok, because pro starcraft is the only "pro sport" that doesnt doesnt pay its "farm league" players. Just because someone agrees to something doesnt mean its fair as much as it's something their willing to go through as a means to an end. Most pro gamers are closer to infants than adults these days. Many are still technically children anyways but treated and put on shedules MOST ADULTS dont even want to go through. KeSPA benefits off of them without paying them. Kinda seems messed up, but hey if you're cool with that then fine. I would just rather pay the players that make it possible for the entire esport to generate some money and exist. KeSPA can just burnout kids before they even start college constantly until they find one they can market and benefit from. They pay for room and boarding and food. Sounds like payment to me. Can you define what you mean by "fair" cause I don't really get it and I bet it's really idealistic. What's messed up about it? You need to explain. I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all.
It's child labor in many cases for one, two paying for bare necessities still doesnt compensate 13 hour work days when they have no wages. Doesnt seem fair to me, then again I wonder if you think living in a tiny place with many other people without getting paid is the high life. Seems like a shady under the table business model. No real contracts, just feeding off of a kid's hopes to be pro gamers and not even writing them a check for all the hours they practice helping others get better as well. I'd be fine if they got minimum wages or enough to live off of as they would be getting money they could use for any purpose as long as they practiced enough. It's not like pro baseball prospects live the good life unless they're high draft picks. The point is as long as you're in their system you get paid. You cant have it both ways as KeSPA.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 08:00 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:53 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:47 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:23 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:13 Serpico wrote:On June 01 2010 07:10 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game? Well you do pay them less than minimum wages in minor leagues! Better housing? Fair contracts? Huh? If it wasn't fair they wouldn't have signed it. Can you explain to me why they would agree to something they wouldn't find acceptable? Because they love the game they're willing to do certain things they wouldnt in normal circumstances....and in the minor leagues you get enough for living expenses and can get more money without even being in the pros by going to AAA and redoing your contract. Why do you think just because someone agrees to something that they think it's fair? They probably are just hoping they can make it big and not have to worry about the unfair contract. Stop trying to make excuses for why its ok to not even get paid for what they do. I choose to volunteer a lot of my time on TeamLiquid. I am not paid. Suppose that I go a step further, and I choose to translate 40 hours a week. I agree to do this. I am not paid. I make a contract with the admin, saying that if I don't translate 40 hours a week, I can be banned. I agree to it. Is that not fair? What excuses am I making? The point is simple. If you don't like the conditions, you don't do it. Simple as that. Don't try to baby the progamers by going "aww how sad", and undermine their decisions by reminding them how "bad" it is. They're the one who agreed. Yes, as long as they're not coerced to make an agreement, I can assume that any agreement is fair. When you say "they're just hoping they can make it big", isn't that just gambling? It is absolutely okay. Just like it's okay for me to volunteer and not get paid wherever I want, it's okay for anyone else to spend their time at a progame team 13 hours a day to try to make it to the big leagues. They love the game, so they're more willing to take price cuts. Why do you think plumbers are paid so much? No one wants to do it. Similarly, if there's a lot of people who wants to do it, wage goes down, conditions remain stagnant. Even then there's an army of people wanting to do this. Stop infantalizing progamers. They have made their decisions, we respect them for accepting such conditions and hope that they improve, but don't try to pretend like they didn't agree to it or something. No its not ok, because pro starcraft is the only "pro sport" that doesnt doesnt pay its "farm league" players. Just because someone agrees to something doesnt mean its fair as much as it's something their willing to go through as a means to an end. Most pro gamers are closer to infants than adults these days. Many are still technically children anyways but treated and put on shedules MOST ADULTS dont even want to go through. KeSPA benefits off of them without paying them. Kinda seems messed up, but hey if you're cool with that then fine. I would just rather pay the players that make it possible for the entire esport to generate some money and exist. KeSPA can just burnout kids before they even start college constantly until they find one they can market and benefit from. They pay for room and boarding and food. Sounds like payment to me. Can you define what you mean by "fair" cause I don't really get it and I bet it's really idealistic. What's messed up about it? You need to explain. I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all. It's child labor in many cases for one, two paying for bare necessities still doesnt compensate 13 hour work days when they have no wages. Doesnt seem fair to me, then again I wonder if you think living in a tiny place with many other people without getting paid is the high life.
Child Labor? Sounds more like kids going to school so they can learn about starcraft. Yeah, it's a bit extreme, but they're only there so that they can learn, prove themselves, and rise up, much like you do in Highschool for colleges. Hell, in College, we PAY for that opportunity... unlike progaming houses where people can learn about starcraft for free! Hell, I bet if you start charging people so that they can be in B Teams, I bet there will be people who will do it.
Why should they get paid more than they do? They don't produce anything of value! What do the B teamers do? They don't play in proleague or individual teams, they don't make any value for the team other than serve as practice partners. If you dig up trenches and fill them back in for 13 hours for 5 days a week do you deserve to be paid? No.
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On June 01 2010 02:40 Drunken Argument wrote:
2) They control the future (SC2).
It is entirely possible that Blizzard will lose the SC1 argument and KeSPA will remain in complete control of the scene and broadcasting rights. Unfortunately for KeSPA, that victory will be short-lived. In light of the recent events, I’m sure Blizzard has already included clauses in SC2’s EULA that prevent broadcasting of their games without their permission. Assuming that is the case, Blizzard can give GOM the rights as the sole broadcaster of SC2 and hope that the popularity of the new game will force other sponsors into abandoning KeSPA for the new GOM league.
What would prevent KeSPA from simply starting their own SC2 league? Battle Net 2.0. Since there is no LAN play in SC2, all games must be played on Blizzard’s servers. This gives Blizzard the opportunity to shut down any account that is being used in an illegal broadcast. KeSPA would never be allowed to broadcast any of their games.
In conclusion, Blizzard is the most likely controller of the future of Korean SC eSports. While I promised that would not moralize on who is right or wrong in this matter, I will say this. I do not think Blizzard’s actions will be the end of eSports. In America alone, nearly every national league has a private company that controls the broadcasting rights to the sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.). Blizzard is trying to establish their own kind of organization through their partnership with GOM. While the eSports of the future might have a very different face on it that the eSports of now, there will still likely be eSports.
Two things:
1. If KeSPA doesn't release the names of the accounts on BNet 2.0, how can Blizzard find out what the account names are? For example, if the games were broadcasted 30 minutes after the actual matches with the account names edited out, what is Blizzard's course of action?
The Korean government favors KeSPA. The reason why Blizzard couldn't sue for SC1 rights in Korea was because the Korean government told them to just deal with KeSPA. If Blizzard tries to sue in Korea again--even with their new contract with GOM-- what makes you think that the Korean government will enforce any sort of judgment on KeSPA? The Korean government spends a fair amount of time in the development of eSports and gaming in general because it is a big part of their economy. It is highly doubtful that they will allow Blizzard to just swoop in and swipe the sport off their feet and bring it back to square one.
2. No one is saying that Blizzard's involvement is going to be the end of eSports. It's just going to be the end of eSports as we know it. It's just going to take a bit of time to get it back to what it previously was.
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If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 08:06 xBillehx wrote:
If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that.
I don't think it has to do with Blizzard wanting to audit them, it's the Blizzard having the "right" to audit them that bothers them.
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On June 01 2010 08:06 tenpromicro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:40 Drunken Argument wrote:
2) They control the future (SC2).
It is entirely possible that Blizzard will lose the SC1 argument and KeSPA will remain in complete control of the scene and broadcasting rights. Unfortunately for KeSPA, that victory will be short-lived. In light of the recent events, I’m sure Blizzard has already included clauses in SC2’s EULA that prevent broadcasting of their games without their permission. Assuming that is the case, Blizzard can give GOM the rights as the sole broadcaster of SC2 and hope that the popularity of the new game will force other sponsors into abandoning KeSPA for the new GOM league.
What would prevent KeSPA from simply starting their own SC2 league? Battle Net 2.0. Since there is no LAN play in SC2, all games must be played on Blizzard’s servers. This gives Blizzard the opportunity to shut down any account that is being used in an illegal broadcast. KeSPA would never be allowed to broadcast any of their games.
In conclusion, Blizzard is the most likely controller of the future of Korean SC eSports. While I promised that would not moralize on who is right or wrong in this matter, I will say this. I do not think Blizzard’s actions will be the end of eSports. In America alone, nearly every national league has a private company that controls the broadcasting rights to the sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.). Blizzard is trying to establish their own kind of organization through their partnership with GOM. While the eSports of the future might have a very different face on it that the eSports of now, there will still likely be eSports.
Two things: 1. If KeSPA doesn't release the names of the accounts on BNet 2.0, how can Blizzard find out what the account names are? For example, if the games were broadcasted 30 minutes after the actual matches with the account names edited out, what is Blizzard's course of action? The Korean government favors KeSPA. The reason why Blizzard couldn't sue for SC1 rights in Korea was because the Korean government told them to just deal with KeSPA. If Blizzard tries to sue in Korea again--even with their new contract with GOM-- what makes you think that the Korean government will enforce any sort of judgment on KeSPA? The Korean government spends a fair amount of time in the development of eSports and gaming in general because it is a big part of their economy. It is highly doubtful that they will allow Blizzard to just swoop in and swipe the sport off their feet and bring it back to square one. 2. No one is saying that Blizzard's involvement is going to be the end of eSports. It's just going to be the end of eSports as we know it. It's just going to take a bit of time to get it back to what it previously was.
Pardon my double post (in case theres no new one before I post this), but to answer your second paragraph.
Since Blizzard gave the rights to GOM, it's now a Korean company that KeSPA would be infringing on. It's no longer American versus Korean law. The Korean government has an obligation to protect the rights of GOM against KeSPA, and the Korean Copyright Laws can now be used to that effect.
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On June 01 2010 08:08 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 08:06 xBillehx wrote:
If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that. I don't think it has to do with Blizzard wanting to audit them, it's the Blizzard having the "right" to audit them that bothers them.
But why would it bother them if theres nothing to hide? It's literally no trouble at all and would merely re-enforce to the fans that KeSPA is non-profit if it truly is. It just doesn't make sense for that to be one of the "outrageous" claims they disagree with while playing off the face of it being non-profit.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 08:11 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 08:08 Milkis wrote:On June 01 2010 08:06 xBillehx wrote:
If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that. I don't think it has to do with Blizzard wanting to audit them, it's the Blizzard having the "right" to audit them that bothers them. But why would it bother them if theres nothing to hide? It's literally no trouble at all and would merely re-enforce to the fans that KeSPA is non-profit if it truly is. It just doesn't make sense for that to be one of the "outrageous" claims they disagree with while playing off the face of it being non-profit.
It's not about anything to hide.
It's like this. Suppose that, Maple Story finally takes off as an eSports in United States. In fact, people love it so much that an entire culture develops around it. Furthermore, the United States Government backs and approves of an organization created to promote Maple Story in the United States as a cultural entity. All the major sponsors and companies involved in Maple Story, except for Nexon, join the board of this organization.
Nexon then comes in, and demands rights to audit them at any given point. You think this organization, backed by the US government and major US companies will allow that to happen?
It's about "rights", rather than what's actually there. Korean Sponsors don't want American companies to be able to nudge into their finances whenever the companies feel like it. It's ridiculous.
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On June 01 2010 08:06 xBillehx wrote:
If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that.
nonprofit doesn't mean there is no cash flow. If Blizzard can just audit everything and see a big cash flow they could demand a higher royalty fee, which means less money into esports scene, which means even worse treatment of progamers. Kespa may not care about progamers, but Blizzard even cares less about them. At least Kespa is interested in developing a successful scene out of its own interest, whereas Blizzard just wants money.
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So is blizzard being greedy here? I think kespa paying blizzard some money is fair enough.
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On June 01 2010 08:22 iloahz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 08:06 xBillehx wrote:
If KeSPA is truely non-profit like they claim to be, why did they refuse to agree to Blizzard wanting to audit them? If they are non-profit, the audit will only verify that. nonprofit doesn't mean there is no cash flow. If Blizzard can just audit everything and see a big cash flow they could demand a higher royalty fee, which means less money into esports scene, which means even worse treatment of progamers. Kespa may not care about progamers, but Blizzard even cares less about them. At least Kespa is interested in developing a successful scene out of its own interest, whereas Blizzard just wants money.
This is why we cannot have Blizzard running the eSports scene. It will fail once it stops being profitable. And given their inexperience in eSports, they will likely stumble in the beginning -- putting the entire sport into jeopardy. Greed will kill the only thing going for eSports right now.
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On June 01 2010 07:03 Serpico wrote:
I simply want players to have better housing and more pay with fair contracts. You shouldnt be working 10 hours a day and not get paid, regardless of skill. It's like having a baseball farmleague and saying "You're in AA not the majors so we wont pay you." The hell is that? So you want free labor and to just completely abuse kids because they like a game?
Where will the money come from? Is blizzard going to pay these guys the money? If blizzard does pay bteamers the money and pay the A teamers and the staff their salaries with food and housing, then I will support blizzard 100%. If blizzard really wants an esports scene, it should speak with its money, not with its words. When I talk money, I'm not saying some random 50k tournament. I'm talking about investing millions of dollars each year into the players and the staff to bring us Esports.
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EPT
