More TL Predictions: Hot Bid "This is the final we have all been waiting for" + Show Spoiler +
For the past few years, the MSL was one gigantic cocktease. Savior-Bisu was derailed by Mind, Jaedong-Flash by ForGG, Bisu-Jaedong by Free, Flash-Stork by Leta. There hasn't been a hyped cross-match final in the MSL since Savior-Nal_Ra in 2006. But finally, after years of watching great OSL Finals and cooler OSL intro videos, the little brother of the individual leagues can finally stand up and say "look at me." This time, the MSL is guaranteed a better final. Jaedong-Flash is "0-3 proof." In fact, an 3-0 sweep either way would make the final that much more amazing. This is the final we have all been waiting for.
p4NDemik "It wont be an easy task, but I think Jaedong pulls it off" + Show Spoiler +
Jaedong is very fortunate that games one and five will both be played on Match Point - a map which has caused Flash considerable headaches vs Zerg. The Ultimate Weapon has been beaten in both a drawn out macro match (by HyuN - go figure) and in a relatively short match where a strong mutalisk harass allowed ZerO to take his half of the map handily and crush Flash before the 16 minute mark. The point being: Flash is vulnerable on the opening and closing map of the series.
It's no secret that Flash has the advantage on Ultimatum, Odd-Eye, and Fighting Spirit (as we've already seen from their series in the OSL). If Jaedong is going to take away the Gold on Saturday he will need to focus on outplaying Flash on Match Point and formulating some strategies that can steal a game or two in between. It won't be any easy task, but I think Jaedong pulls it off.
Jaedong > Flash on Match Point Jaedong > Flash on Ultimatum Flash > Jaedong on Odd-Eye Flash > Jaedong on Fighting Spirit Jaedong > Flash on Match Point
GTR "The only way Jaedong can win is with some really unorthodox builds" + Show Spoiler +
Personal Prediction: Flash 3-1, kids on the forums making threads with the combination of keywords 'Flash' and 'Bonjwa'.
Simply put, the goal set by the MBCgame PD's since the start of the season was to kill off the numerous amount of mediocre Zergs qualifying for the major individual leagues. This was achieved by using the map pool. While Match Point appears to be Flash's achilles heel, Jaedong is going to darn struggle on Ultimatum, Odd-Eye and Fighting Spirit in the current form Flash is in at the moment.
The way I see it, the only ways I see that Jaedong can win is with some really unorthodox builds which catch Flash off, fusing with another Zerg (Calmdong) or a riot breaks out in Yeouido because only 700 people can fit into the damn place.
Motbob "Today, the identity of the winner-to-be is a foregone conclusion" + Show Spoiler +
Flash, 3-0 The maps are heavily in Flash's favor. He has been playing better against Zerg than any other Terran has since Shark revolutionized the matchup with muta micro. He has shown that he is able to embrace his cheesy roots yet also shows incredible standard play. One year ago, the result of this series would have been completely in doubt. Today, the identity of the winner-to-be is a foregone conclusion.
I think the most likely result is Flash 3-1. I say that because Flash has the edge and its the most often score of a bo5 (probably because, combination wise, it has the most possible results).
I'm inclined to say Match Point will be the map Jaedong wins on, but its probably too close to call. Seeing Jaedong go WLLL would be the funniest result to me so I'm definitely rooting for it. The maps are good for terran, which may be relevant, though I suspect with these two specific players its less of a factor than in other series.
When we get 2 players of this caliber fighting over a long series for king of the hill, it boils down to the mental game. Flash has done nothing but gain momentum in the past few months. His TvZ in particular has looked unstoppable, and he just had a satisfying victory for an OSL title. He now has the chance at true greatness, snatching two golds in a single season. He is approaching the top of his curve skill wise, and has yet to show any signs of slowing down. I doubt he will until several weeks after he wins another gold.
I see starcraft skill for those at the top to be a sine wave. Jaedong, in comparison, is now coming down the crest of that wave. He earned 2 OSL golds back to back, and got his gold mouse. He has looked slightly less than unstoppable in the past months, and its fair to say he isn't in quite the same form as he was during his series with fantasy. He is a fierce opponent, but he simply can't have the same drive Flash does.
Flash losing 0-3 in their last best of 5 series is only going to fuel his desire to take the title this time around.
Therefore as I said, Flash in 4. Jaedong is no walk over, it could certainly go the full amount but Flash has a clear advantage.
Arrian "This is the turning point, this is where everything changed" + Show Spoiler +
NOTE - Arrian chose to use the questions from the "FAN FACEOFF" to give his prediction
There has been a lot of hype around the Lee-Ssang Rok match-up. Given their past records, do you think this series will live up to the hype?
Absolutely. The Classic Season 1 was marred by the 3-0 sweep and the fact that it wasn't legitimized by KesPA. I think that will allow Flash to put that out of his mind, and frankly, both players are playing better Starcraft than they ever have before. The Flash-Jaedong rivalry emerged as both players were emerging onto the scene, and they'll both always be judged to some extent by how they perform against each other. Neither will want to pass up on this opportunity to seize an edge.
The last time Jaedong and Flash met in a finals situation, Jaedong won 3-0. How does that factor in this time around?
It doesn't even play a role. Flash knows the way he played in that final didn't reflect at all what kind of player he is, and Jaedong knows it too. Both will be gritting their teeth and expecting their opponent to give them no quarter.
There is talk about the maps favoring Terran, how important will this be?
Well, the matchup itself favors Terran, and that's never stopped Jaedong. Jaedong's talent and ability surpasses maps. Jaedong is a perfect 4-0 on Match Point, 1-0 on Ultimatum, 2-0 on Odd-Eye, and is 7-2 on Fighting Spirit. In rivalries, anything can happen. What matters far more than the maps is that Jaedong is playing Flash.
Flash beat Jaedong pretty solidly in the recent OSL, is this a sign of things to come?
No. I remember watching progaming as a fascination in 2007, but I didn't get into it until I started watching these two. I remember Jaedong laying a beating on Stork in EVER 2007, and then feeling bad for Flash as he managed to face Jaedong in the MSL, OSL, and the Star Invitational. I thought he was done for. But Flash stunned us all, and his victories over Jaedong propelled his career lightyears beyond his reputation as a puny cheeser. There won't be a 3-0 sweep this time, not after GOM. This rivalry means everything to these players.
In short, who will win this series and why?
3-2 Flash.
This isn't just a chapter in the most important rivalry of the modern era of Starcraft, this could very well be its climax. This could be the finals that we look back on and say "This is the turning point, this is where everything changed." I'm calling it: In the most epic finals of our time, Flash overpowers Jaedong in a charged fifth set to be remembered.
Alffla "This is definitely the most anticipated finals in the history of StarCraft" + Show Spoiler +
This is definitely the most anticipated Finals in the history of StarCraft. Even the commentators from the OGN side have taken their time to comment on the upcoming match. Flash is currently playing the best he has ever played before, and Jaedong is also looking deadly as ever. With both players given much more time off Proleague duties, there is no doubt that these 2 rivals will give us an amazing series.
Here's my take on the games. Flash is definitely looking unstoppable, and I do think that he will take the series as well as a dual Starleague win. However, Jaedong is still Jaedong, and since he has been given the chance to watch how many other Zergs have failed against Flash (Kwanro, Calm, and all the other Zergs that Flash raped recently) I am sure he will be learning from their mistakes and be prepared as ever. Losing to Flash 0-2 in the OSL will also have triggered his must-get-revenge mode.
I'm predicting Jaedong to be utilizing strategies more akin to Calm's strategies in the OSL. While Calm's mutalisk micro isn't really terrible, Jaedong built most of his career by destroying Terrans with it. I'm predicting that the delicate balance of Terran defending 2 hatch muta and Zerg trying to kill as many marines as possible and keeping Terran at bay will be taken to the extreme in this finals. Jaedong, unlike Calm, will probably sneak in a 5 pool somewhere in the series as well.
On the other hand, Flash definitely has the mind game advantage right now. He is simply perfect at all aspects of the game whether at early, mid, or late game. Furthermore, Flash has the advantage of his cheese builds which frankly, must be really scary to any Zerg. Mid game is also incredibly hard for Zerg, with Flash's odd MnM attack timing and denying of 3rd expo. And as we've all seen in his game against Calm, late game Flash is just an impenetrable wall.
Overall I'm predicting strong play by Jaedong, but it will still not be enough to topple the Ultimate Weapon that is Flash. 3-1 to Flash!
Thanks to Radfield and Newblearbomb for generously allowing the use of his high quality "Broodwar Highlights" to recap and review the MSL semifinal matches: Please watch and enjoy these amazing videos!
Thank you to Ver, Hot Bid, Day9, Idra, Artosis, GTR, Doctor Helvetica, Heyoka, motbob, p4NDemik, alffla, Arrian, Waxangel, MrHoon, NeverGG, Radfield, Newblearbomb, and all TL readers! Hope you enjoy this article and are as phenominally excited about these finals as I am!
What a beautiful article. The layout is a thing of art.
I think you do a really good job of showing how contentious the series will be by providing a bunch of predictions from various names.
I disagree with your assertion that Flash will be playing in a reactive manner. I expect him to really dictate the early game with his choices, particularly his number of barracks. Flash has been a player who really tries to choose the pace of his TvZs.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see at least one bunker rush, perhaps in the very first set. If he does this, Jaedong is much more likely to 9-pool in game 2 and Flash can go with 3 rax to keep mutas away or some unit > tech opening.
Vs Kwanro, we also have seen how comfortable Flash is with transitioning into wraiths after he has around 4 barracks down and rolling. I think Jaedong will certainly be considering this build while he practices. Then again, if Flash had been trying to pull out that particular card against JD he would have been less likely to use it against Kwanro.
I think JD is probably trying hard to make some solid predictions about what Flash's choices will be, while Flash is trying to figure out exactly how to open in solid-yet-unpredictable ways. In other words, I really think that Jaedong will be reacting to Flash's choices, not just in this series, but in his past few rounds. I think that if JD can accurately predict what Flash is scheming, and can utilize abusive responses, he has a good chance here.
Day9's pict + comment was awesome. I play terran, I always want Flash to win, but this is the only time I can think of where JD is a true underdog and I love cheering for the underdog. I might go neutral cheer mode for this series and just take in the games for all they are worth.
Writeup of the decade, hell, of starcraft! Its beautifully formatted and remarkably written, so much HYPE so much EXCITEMENT, this will definitely be a finals that no one will ever forget! Thanks for this phenomenally sick writeup! Day[9]'s comment was just hilarious.
Nothing could possibly stop me from watching the finals live tomorrow. It´s gonna be painful if JD wins but I´m hoping for epic games atleast. This is going to be huge. I might not be able to get any sleep tonight
GOGOGOGO FLASH!
edit: Also, if the streams won´t work I´ll spend my life inventing a time machine and go back, sign up to Flash´s fanclub and go see it live.
Lol, I just saw that Kwanro quote and it reminded me of Stork saying something along the lines of "I heard he was practicing very hard. It makes me laugh to think he was practicing so many hours to cheese."
An indredibly aethetically pleasing article, not to mention the mind-boggingly awesome content. I am sometimes hesitant to give my praise to write-ups or articles because at times they seem driven more by deadline than by passion - which isn't the case here.
oh god that's a lot of images. also several of them didn't work for me the first time I loaded the page, but everything came up after a reload. any chance of a text version?
my whining aside, fantastic article. great content and presentation. I can only imagine the tremendous amount of work all you guys must have put into this.
Idra's right - Flash is playing almost perfect starcraft, but that perfection is also right at a precarious edge. If any of his timings are wrong, he'll get worked.
On January 23 2010 07:00 KingFool wrote: Day9's pict + comment was awesome. I play terran, I always want Flash to win, but this is the only time I can think of where JD is a true underdog and I love cheering for the underdog. I might go neutral cheer mode for this series and just take in the games for all they are worth.
Good point... Think I'll be neutral too, I wouldn't want this potentially epicest series of the century to be ruined by my favorite player losing it.
Lee Young Ho is not just "on fire" lately - hes a goddamn inferno. Everyday this 17 year old kid seems to not only break but shatter a new record. Holding the highest ELO ever recorded, both overall and in TvZ (breaking iloveoov's old record of 2313, something most considered impossible) there simply isn't a more fearsome StarCraft opponent in the entire world. From his humble beginnings as the "Cheddar Terran" who knocked out big-name stars like Bisu with innovative cheeses, he quickly rose to recognition by defeating Stork 3-2 in the GomTV Star Invitational with an innovative anti-carrier build and solidified his stardom when he crushed Stork again 3-0 in the Bacchus OSL, making him the youngest ever champion of the prestigious tournament. Unfortunately, he followed his breakout success with a series of disappointing individual league knockouts, though continued to remain a titan in proleague where he carried the struggling KT Rolster team (to the point where he became known as the "Child Labor Terran" because of his overloaded proleague schedule). no end parenthesis In the current season, he finally put a medal to the skills medal to the skills wat? lol by winning the EVER 2009 OSL, his second StarLeague victory, over Movie. He now stands poised in the finals of the NATE MSL, eager to become the first person since NaDa in 2002 to win both major Korean leagues in the same season.
thats just the Flash one, lol i'm not gonna do the rest
Jaedong "He too proved himself worthy of champion status"
not the best grammar and diction either, and i did spot some idiom errors, but its all good
On January 23 2010 07:30 Zona wrote: Idra's right - Flash is playing almost perfect starcraft, but that perfection is also right at a precarious edge. If any of his timings are wrong, he'll get worked.
On January 23 2010 07:30 Zona wrote: Idra's right - Flash is playing almost perfect starcraft, but that perfection is also right at a precarious edge. If any of his timings are wrong, he'll get worked.
Not even close.
Good thing you know more about starcraft, particularly terran, than idra
This is going to be an epic final, too bad MSL has restricted number of people watching live in the stadium. :[
Anyways, will Jaedong be able to pull off his infamous/famous L W W W (In a Bo5, lose the first game then win the rest of the games) or will Flash prove to dominant?
I'm excited for this and hope for epic games. Drone v. SCV elimination race in the final 5th game for the win.
HWASEUNG HOUSE SPECIAL!!!! Cool write-up, you people surely put a lot of work in it, TL never fails to get good coverage/hype of incoming epic matches Plus YAAAAY HWASEUNG HOUSE SPECIAL :D
Holy balls. I'm so excited for this. We're like ten dudes who actually managed to arrange a get-together for the finals. The most amazing thing about that is that where we are, it starts at 9.00 a.m (that's 8 1/2 hours from now). We were pretty pumped for Flash-Movie, guess how awesome tomorrow's gonna be! And, oh yeah, it's on 40" worth of widescreen... and there's coffee and breakfast... just like wtf omg, tbh!
AFK, exam paper. Enjoy the games, Jaedong will de-effing-stroy the little marine boy man...
Mere words can`t possibly explain how exciting the series is and how incredible the article is. Definitely some of the best Starcraft matches of all time are soon to come.
Wow.... Mark your calendar guys.... I don't think there has ever been a finals this hyped ever.... Not Boxer vs Yellow, not Boxer vs Oov, not Nada vs Savior.
10 years from now when starcraft bw no longer exists we'll be talking about this on teamliquid, possibly an FPS site now, and we will reminisce about the Golden age of starcraft and that time when the two most skilled players in starcraft history, who were at the crest of their powers, met on that fateful night on Janurary 23, 2010-- watched by thousands of fans hypnotized by their screens,on the edge of their seats, hoping, crying, praying-- to show us starcraft as no one else had ever seen it before.
Well everyone and their mother seems to be liking Flash's chances better but still he lost one game to Movie of all people. Scouting or no scouting if that can happen a far stronger opponent like Jaedong can take it. It's not hard to know who I'm rooting for so here's to hoping and believing!
On January 23 2010 08:48 3nickma wrote: Well everyone and their mother seems to be liking Flash's chances better but still he lost one game to Movie of all people. Scouting or no scouting if that can happen a far stronger opponent like Jaedong can take it. It's not hard to know who I'm rooting for so here's to hoping and believing!
Movie played extremely high level PvT, what are you talking about. Beating someone 3-1 is a dominant victory, that has nothing to do with his chances here.
h0h0. we wanna see a d9d on one of the games too! damn. dont know how to cheer for, or who to bet on! i hope jd wins, but then again..its flash. craaaaaaap. nevertheless i hope for an epic final!
you guys are fucking trying to match the quality of this with the actual game :D impressive. i pray for a zvt revolution (: otherwise it's going to flash.
That was the best finals thread in a LOOONG time. Holy shit this finals better not disappoint the effort that went into this thread. and LOL at predictions & HH.
I can see Jaedong winning on at least one of the strong Terran maps (like Odd-Eye) simply because Flash may be expecting some kind of gimmicky cheese build or something along those lines and play less aggressively than he otherwise would, and if JD can just play a straight up game and put everything he has into it, I think it would catch Flash off guard and allow him to squeak out a win. Cheese aside, I think whoever wins the first straight up, standard game will take the series, because the loser will see that he is the "weaker" player and the momentum from winning a long, solid macro game is immense compared to the momentum gained from fighting off cheese OR winning with it. If JD tries a cheese build and loses, he will think "oh well, that didn't work, but I guess that is to be expected. Now let's see if he can beat me at REAL StarCraft", but if he plays his hardest straight-up game and simply gets outplayed by Flash, he will be thinking "Oh shit, this kid is the real deal" and he might start cheesing or playing too lose and throw games.
So I can honestly see Flash taking this 3-0, if and ONLY if, the VERY FIRST GAME is a standard macro game, and Flash beats down Jaedong in a standard game. If this happens, I think Flash handily wins the next two due to psychological advantage.
Anyone know how to sign up at MBC game to watch the stream? I have an account on ongamenet and it would be awesome if there was a way to sign up at mbc game.
I love how all the Zergs Flash has beaten this season predict him winning and the only Zerg predicting Flash's loss is the one Zerg who managed to beat him (Hyun).
I loved reading IdrA's piece just now on predicting the finals. Very nicely analysed. I felt I learnt something reading it, and much better than what most fans write.
Killer hype article. Rooting for JD but it's yet to be shown flash can be stopped this season. maybe we'll see JD pull off mass queen, though its unlikely to go unnoticed cause of flash's super scans. Broodling followed up by crackling defliler the only thing i can think of that might be able to break flash's late game map control. Then again, one well placed emp might crush that. Hoping for a fifth epic game with something wild like lockdown and BC's and ultra/guards.
I wouldn't be surprised if one or the other cheeses one game with a 4 or 5 pool or bunker rush right after a win to try steal an extra game, it would put incredible pressure on the opponent to do so. Otherwise i think all long games.
Flash has to be the favorite here and a loss would probably be considered a letdown. With a well-rested JD though, anything is possible.
On January 23 2010 16:30 pshych0 wrote: Could anyone tell me how i can watch this live? thanks
When the clock strikes 12:00 (approx. 15 mins from now), go to the TL.net main page and look at the right-hand side, should say a section called "Live user streams", rest is self explanatory.
I see that most staff members at 'Roffles' don't know well enough why game 3 was given to jaedong so I'll explain it a bit
Let's compare what they had...
Flash: -3 bases, of which main was mined out. I think he did a quick expansion too, so his natural wouldnt last very long either. -a small vessel count. This is ABSOLUTELY KEY. A game is never over if terran has like 8 vessels, but flash had like 2-4 with low energy since jaedong kept taking them out -not a huge m&m army either.
Jaedong: -4 bases, 5 gasses of which corner expo wasnt mining very much. His main may have run out in a couple of minutes. Possibly around the time flashs natural would mine out. -several ultras -several defilers at his expansion ready to keep up the pressure -lings
Now the misconception of an inexperienced player would be that Flash had the advantage because he was pressuring jaedongs corner expo so much. The fact, however, is that that was ALL flash had. In your average game you could maybe call it a pretty even situation or flash's advantage, but thats all there was left to this game. If jaedong could keep the expansion, his 5 gas would destroy flash and there's nothing flash would be able to do. Jaedong had enough ultras and lings, but most importantly, he had 2 defilers at the corner expo which flash wouldnt be able to irradiate due to low vessel count and low energy. Flash wasnt right next to hatchery either, he was quite a while away. The longer the game would drag on, the bigger jaedongs advantage would have been. I'll remind once again, he had several ultras and two defilers at his expo. Flash wouldnt have been able to take it down quickly unless jaedong REALLY screwed up. It's something jaedong would not do, or if he did, it's just as realistic to think that flash would screw up
Against a B-class progamer Flash could have won and match should have been replayed, but we're talking about jaedong whose decision making and mechanics are about as good as Flash's.
Jaedong would have won with 70-90% chance. Flash was pressuring his expo, yes, but thats all there was left to this game. Flash didnt have vessels to take out ultras/defilers, and jaedongs expo would have survived. Flash didn't have enough m&m either to have a real army advantage.
None of us is happy about the fact that this happened, but replaying the game or giving the win to flash would have been simply wrong. Can you really replay a match when flash faces the best zerg in the world who would have probably won?
I'm sad that this had to happen, it was a really good game and it will shake both players up. I'm also sad that jaedong isn't getting all the credit he should be getting because people will keep talking about the third game jaedong had a chance of losing
EDIT: They showed the replay, and actually it was 95% sure that jaedong won. We saw earlier how flash brought all his marines over, then some time after they arrived we saw jaedongs ultraling rape all of his M&M. Flash would not have had a big M&M army after that, and jaedong would have run over him. End of story.
Very anti-climatic, but really, it was Jaedongs win.
Ahzz is so right. Jaedong got a "default win" for a game he already won. This affected him a lot more than Flash. If there's anyone to feel sorry about, it's Jaedong, because a lot of you think his win is undeserved.
On January 23 2010 20:52 Garnet wrote: MBC should've invited Kanye West instead of that SS guy. "Yo Jaedong I know you just won an MSL and all...."
haha seriously, perfect fit.
Ahzz is right though, and I gotta say JD's mindgames were damn perfect this series. He predicted everything perfectly, 3 hatch before pool when flash FEs, overpool (or was it 9 pool?) when flash goes rax before depot. + Show Spoiler +
Although stuff like this makes me wonder if there are sometimes practice partners of pro gamers leaking some info, I mean it's possible
Had he had just a few more lings in game 2 vs the drop than he would have been in a ridiculously strong position too and probably have taken that game. And let's not forget that those maps arent very zerg-friendly
Anyways, this will surely go down as the most disappointing finals in starcraft history.
On January 23 2010 20:56 cyclone25 wrote: Ahzz is so right. Jaedong got a "default win" for a game he already won. This affected him a lot more than Flash. If there's anyone to feel sorry about, it's Jaedong, because a lot of you think his win is undeserved.
Moreover, people are forgetting something.
When two players so close to perfecting their own races play, the one who can prepare the best will have an advantage. We all know that jaedong could prepare for these matches a lot. He even lost to flash twice earlier, which is a VERY important thing because he now knew his mistakes against both key strategies which flash used here in MSL finals too. This result we saw DOES NOT mean Jaedong > Flash skillwise! It means that jaedong played better in this set than flash did.
The quality of the finals dropped from amazing to mediocre because of the game crashing, but the decision wasn't unfair in any way.
This was literally the worst dogshit I have ever viewed in my life. I am raging so hard right now it isn't even funny. The MSL finals were in no way legitimate and I sincerely hope no one attempts to take what transpired tonight as anything other than a sign that KESPA and MBCGame Channel don't give a flying shit about e-sports or StarCraft fans.
On January 23 2010 21:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This was literally the worst dogshit I have ever viewed in my life. I am raging so hard right now it isn't even funny. The MSL finals were in no way legitimate and I sincerely hope no one attempts to take what transpired tonight as anything other than a sign that KESPA and MBCGame Channel don't give a flying shit about e-sports or StarCraft fans.
I completely understand your rage over this, but I dont think it is entirely fair to imply that JD doesn't deserve his title.
Got to agree with Ahzz as well. It really sucked for Jaedong. He was definitely ahead. For people who wanted the 3rd set played again, now that we know Flash's fan is what caused the power outage, it definitely would have been even more bullshit if Kespa had instead decided to say
"Hey Jaedong, Flash's fan just reset that game after it had been going on for a while, would you mind if we just said that was all bullshit that meant nothing, and did the 3rd set from scratch pretty please?"
Only fair after that for the judges to have to decide who was ahead in the game and elect a winner. Maybe someone could argue otherwise if it was only 3 minutes in, but that game had to have been going on for close to 20 minutes.
The worst part is, even if you think Jaedong ultimately won fair and square, it doesn't really matter, because he was never able to really celebrate or feel like he had won.
If Jaedong had won 3-1 without the blackout, I could accept it and even be happy for him. Now I just feel sorry for both of them, I feel that no-one won tonight.
On January 23 2010 21:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This was literally the worst dogshit I have ever viewed in my life. I am raging so hard right now it isn't even funny. The MSL finals were in no way legitimate and I sincerely hope no one attempts to take what transpired tonight as anything other than a sign that KESPA and MBCGame Channel don't give a flying shit about e-sports or StarCraft fans.
I completely understand your rage over this, but I dont think it is entirely fair to imply that JD doesn't deserve his title.
No, I don't think that at all. I think Jaedong would have won the series anyway.
That doesn't change the fact that the entire event was an utter failure and probably the biggest disappointment imaginable.
The worst part is, even if you think Jaedong ultimately won fair and square, it doesn't really matter, because he was never able to really celebrate or feel like he had won.
If Jaedong had won 3-1 without the blackout, I could accept it and even be happy for him. Now I just feel sorry for both of them, I feel that no-one won tonight.
Exactly... I know that Jaedong won 3-1 fair and square, but it doesn't feel like a real win.
Everyone loses in this finals. JD cant celebrate properly, Flash had his dad ejected from the premises. MBC had potentially the best series turn into the worst and will be hated. KeSPA will be loathed for the decision (rightly or wrongly). And the fans were cheated out of the end of the most intense game of the series and left with a bad taste at the end.
On January 23 2010 21:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This was literally the worst dogshit I have ever viewed in my life. I am raging so hard right now it isn't even funny. The MSL finals were in no way legitimate and I sincerely hope no one attempts to take what transpired tonight as anything other than a sign that KESPA and MBCGame Channel don't give a flying shit about e-sports or StarCraft fans.
I completely understand your rage over this, but I dont think it is entirely fair to imply that JD doesn't deserve his title.
No, I don't think that at all. I think Jaedong would have won the series anyway.
That doesn't change the fact that the entire event was an utter failure and probably the biggest disappointment imaginable.
ok I misunderstood your post then and I feel the same way
I expected to be happy as hell if JD managed to take down flash but now...
quark put it nicely at the end of one post:
On January 23 2010 21:10 KwarK wrote: This should have been the peak of JD's career. Forcing Flash to GG on Flash's best map in his best matchup at the peak of his skill. JD was robbed.
It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
Why don't just replay the game? It's totally stupid to let someone win by default in a MSL-final and in my Opinion, Flash had a good chance to win this game. 3rd CC going up, many vessels, good pressuring JD's bases, opportunity for Dropship-play like in Game 2, already raped JD's 3rd gas once and killed lots of drones.
JD had a certain advantage, but he was totally on his back foot and thats not a good position to play against JD.
I mean; I was rooting for JD, but 2 very short and one-sided wins for JD and one by default and in between of that hours of drama, was kinda disappointing. At least if you're interested in long and exciting games and not the Drama and Korean commercials. ^^'
On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote: It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
Why don't just replay the game? It's totally stupid to let someone win by default in a MSL-final and in my Opinion, Flash had a good chance to win this game. 3rd CC going up, many vessels, good pressuring JD's bases, opportunity for Dropship-play like in Game 2, already raped JD's 3rd gas once and killed lots of drones.
JD had a certain advantage, but he was totally on his back foot and thats not a good position to play against JD.
I mean; I was rooting for JD, but 2 very short and one-sided wins for JD and one by default and in between of that hours of drama, was kinda disappointing. At least if you're interested in long and exciting games and not the Drama and Korean commercials. ^^'
I also had a hunch it was gonna be disappointing but jesus, who would have expected this..
Your analysis is completely wrong though That 3rd cc was soon to be his only base mining many vessels? no, low vessel count, low energy. Pressuring JD's bases with ALL he had. dropship play? he needed every vessel he could get he couldnt have gone dropship. Flash was about to lose.
On January 23 2010 22:14 TotalDominator wrote: haha...now theres a player called Power Outage...his elo is 2036. Sad for FBH, he's ranked below Power Outage lmao...
Well, unlike PO, FBH never managed to take out Flash when it mattered. Imagine what would have happened if Flash vs FBH on NeoMedusa had stopped right when FBH was in a dominating spot and Flash was thinking about GGing.
the match honestly could have went either way. flash still had alot of stuff to keep him in the game pumping meds and rines (as all of you have seen he just kept pumping and pumping away.) and he had enough vessels to easily irradiate all of the defilers and ultras on the field. flash could have taken that base and established more of his own. even towards the very few seconds before the power went out we seen that flash had vessels by jaedongs mineral line at that base indicating he was probably going for another eraser trick with the drones. so even if jaedong was able to defend the base itself his mining there would have been severely disrupted if not halted all together.
on the other hand jaedong could have defended it well by just keeping the vessel count down and plaguing and swarming everything. he did have enought units to defend that base but he DID NOT have the units to take the game. we seen how heavy flashes wall was, he was able to defend it with just rines. no tanks at all. but at the same time flash didnt have units to really take the game either since he was sending them all to atk that bottom left. even if flash took that base it wouldnt have meant he would have automatically won because he didnt have the units to win the game at that point. same with jaedong, even if he defended it he didnt have the units to take the game just yet..
so thats why imho i beleive the game should have been restarted. up until the power outage it really was a stale mate. and honestly in a pro high lvl and high caliber game as that one you just CAN NOT call something like that. in such high lvl of play ANYTHING can happen. we seen that in game 2 just before the game 3 match. it looked like jaedong had the game won in game 2 but flash pulled out a victory. you just cant call stuff like that.
On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote: It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
Why don't just replay the game? It's totally stupid to let someone win by default in a MSL-final and in my Opinion, Flash had a good chance to win this game. 3rd CC going up, many vessels, good pressuring JD's bases, opportunity for Dropship-play like in Game 2, already raped JD's 3rd gas once and killed lots of drones.
JD had a certain advantage, but he was totally on his back foot and thats not a good position to play against JD.
I mean; I was rooting for JD, but 2 very short and one-sided wins for JD and one by default and in between of that hours of drama, was kinda disappointing. At least if you're interested in long and exciting games and not the Drama and Korean commercials. ^^'
I also had a hunch it was gonna be disappointing but jesus, who would have expected this..
Your analysis is completely wrong though That 3rd cc was soon to be his only base mining many vessels? no, low vessel count, low energy. Pressuring JD's bases with ALL he had. dropship play? he needed every vessel he could get he couldnt have gone dropship. Flash was about to lose.
Well, you just can't be sure JD would've won. And yes, Flash was soon to run out of mins on main and natural, but thats no guarantee that JD would've won. About the Vessels: Flash lost lots of Vessels, but he still had enough to irradiate JD's Defilers to keep them from entering Flahses bases. I think Flash could've at least defended his bases.
My point is just, that even if you think it's okay to declare someone a winner when it's pretty obvious (and even that would be kinda stupid in a MSL Finals) this Game was certainly not one of them.
Its pretty obvious JD had a certain advantage, but why don't just replay the game? It's annoying for the players, the people watching, they players parents (as we witnessed ^^') and the whole SC-scene. I'm sure many people will shout out stuff like "rigged" and stuff like that.
It just doesn't make sense... I mean, what could be the reasons not to replay the game:
1) The Match could go too long: Nothing compared to hours of boring debate and commercials. 2) It's annoying for the palyers: I'm sure JD and Flash were pretty annoyed to wait so long and not knowing what will happen. 3) The people watching don't want to see a regame after a 20min game and they want to see results: Well, that's just a matter of opinion. I would've been pretty happy with a 6-Set best-of-5 MSl Finals. ^^' (Instead, we get 4 Set's with one-sided games and the only interesting game being the one that didn't got finished.)
On January 23 2010 22:24 Ballistixz wrote: the match honestly could have went either way. flash still had alot of stuff to keep him in the game pumping meds and rines (as all of you have seen he just kept pumping and pumping away.) and he had enough vessels to easily irradiate all of the defilers and ultras on the field. flash could have taken that base and established more of his own. even towards the very few seconds before the power went out we seen that flash had vessels by jaedongs mineral line at that base indicating he was probably going for another eraser trick with the drones. so even if jaedong was able to defend the base itself his mining there would have been severely disrupted if not halted all together.
on the other hand jaedong could have defended it well by just keeping the vessel count down and plaguing and swarming everything. he did have enought units to defend that base but he DID NOT have the units to take the game. we seen how heavy flashes wall was, he was able to defend it with just rines. no tanks at all. but at the same time flash didnt have units to really take the game either since he was sending them all to atk that bottom left. even if flash took that base it wouldnt have meant he would have automatically won because he didnt have the units to win the game at that point. same with jaedong, even if he defended it he didnt have the units to take the game just yet..
so thats why imho i beleive the game should have been restarted. up until the power outage it really was a stale mate. and honestly in a pro high lvl and high caliber game as that one you just CAN NOT call something like that. in such high lvl of play ANYTHING can happen. we seen that in game 2 just before the game 3 match. it looked like jaedong had the game won in game 2 but flash pulled out a victory. you just cant call stuff like that.
Watch the vod on youtube. There's 30 seconds that wasn't shown in the playback. In it Flash makes one more abortive push towards 7, scouts a defiler consuming lings and then in the last 3 seconds Flash retreats his army back to his min only. The battle for 7 was over. This isn't just theorycraft and extrapolation, Flash aborted his last attack on 7 after scouted sunks, ultras and a fully charged defiler. With 7 up and running the game was over.
On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote: It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
I was afraid it would be disappointing too, but for completely different reasons. From their previous BO3 (osl), i was thinking the matches wont be 'epic' enough (aside from who it is that's playing), like a muta harrassment leading to gg, or a bunker rush / timing attack. The first match was sort of like that (between 10-15 mins or so), but the second match was great (and quite intense for a while). The real shame is how everything fell apart. That 3rd match was the very definition of epic. Probably one of the most intense TvZs ive seen all year, and it kills me that it didn't occur to anyone to have a UPS battery backup on the hardware in the studio (computers/monitors as well as all the recording equipment). After that, it all went downhill. And unfortunately, nobody can enjoy the end-results, not even JD.
On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote: It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
I was afraid it would be disappointing too, but for completely different reasons. From their previous BO3 (osl), i was thinking the matches wont be 'epic' enough (aside from who it is that's playing), like a muta harrassment leading to gg, or a bunker rush / timing attack. The first match was sort of like that (between 10-15 mins or so), but the second match was great (and quite intense for a while). The real shame is how everything fell apart. That 3rd match was the very definition of epic. Probably one of the most intense TvZs ive seen all year, and it kills me that it didn't occur to anyone to have a UPS battery backup on the hardware in the studio (computers/monitors as well as all the recording equipment). After that, it all went downhill. And unfortunately, nobody can enjoy the end-results, not even JD.
/Agree; why didn't the blackout happen during a boring game? Game 3 was freakin' sweet! ^^'
Even if JD woudl've won, maybe flash could've pulled of some nice moves that were, even if not game-winning, at least exciting.
But anyways: Tomorrow it's Winners-League-Time and everything will be fine and dandy again. xD
On January 23 2010 22:24 Ballistixz wrote: the match honestly could have went either way. flash still had alot of stuff to keep him in the game pumping meds and rines (as all of you have seen he just kept pumping and pumping away.) and he had enough vessels to easily irradiate all of the defilers and ultras on the field. flash could have taken that base and established more of his own. even towards the very few seconds before the power went out we seen that flash had vessels by jaedongs mineral line at that base indicating he was probably going for another eraser trick with the drones. so even if jaedong was able to defend the base itself his mining there would have been severely disrupted if not halted all together.
on the other hand jaedong could have defended it well by just keeping the vessel count down and plaguing and swarming everything. he did have enought units to defend that base but he DID NOT have the units to take the game. we seen how heavy flashes wall was, he was able to defend it with just rines. no tanks at all. but at the same time flash didnt have units to really take the game either since he was sending them all to atk that bottom left. even if flash took that base it wouldnt have meant he would have automatically won because he didnt have the units to win the game at that point. same with jaedong, even if he defended it he didnt have the units to take the game just yet..
so thats why imho i beleive the game should have been restarted. up until the power outage it really was a stale mate. and honestly in a pro high lvl and high caliber game as that one you just CAN NOT call something like that. in such high lvl of play ANYTHING can happen. we seen that in game 2 just before the game 3 match. it looked like jaedong had the game won in game 2 but flash pulled out a victory. you just cant call stuff like that.
Watch the vod on youtube. There's 30 seconds that wasn't shown in the playback. In it Flash makes one more abortive push towards 7, scouts a defiler consuming lings and then in the last 3 seconds Flash retreats his army back to his min only. The battle for 7 was over. This isn't just theorycraft and extrapolation, Flash aborted his last attack on 7 after scouted sunks, ultras and a fully charged defiler. With 7 up and running the game was over.
from what i seen the last few seconds before the outage he did pull his units back but he still had a few vessels near his min line which i figured he could have just pulled back his units while getting ready for another eraser trick on the drones. the base wouldnt have been taken but he also wouldnt have any drones mining there for a bit. also we seen jaedong attemtp to harass flash many times during that game and not getting anything accomplished.
theres to many unknowns to call a game like that. towards the last few seconds before the outtage jaedong really didnt have many units out on the field to take flash out. so i cant see how they can call that a win for him. its the same for flash, he didnt have much of anything either at that point. most of his M&M forces were wiped and didnt have many vessels at that point. jaedong didnt have many defilers and almost all of his ultras got iradiated except for maybe a handfull. but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
i was rooting for jaedong to win the entire match, but not like this. imho i think the judges made a wrong call. the game should have been restarted.
On January 23 2010 22:40 Ballistixz wrote: but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
With what money? His main was mined out and his nat was almost mined.
What you need to understand is JDs build was a special abusive build designed to combat Flash's style on Odd-Eye. A rematch would be giving the game to Flash. It wouldn't work twice. But it did work once. Also those vessels had no energy. They'd just cast irradiate on ultralisks and were moving about above the defiler as it consumed without casting. With that in mind I think it unlikely he was about to eraser the min line.
On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote: It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
Why don't just replay the game? It's totally stupid to let someone win by default in a MSL-final and in my Opinion, Flash had a good chance to win this game. 3rd CC going up, many vessels, good pressuring JD's bases, opportunity for Dropship-play like in Game 2, already raped JD's 3rd gas once and killed lots of drones.
JD had a certain advantage, but he was totally on his back foot and thats not a good position to play against JD.
I mean; I was rooting for JD, but 2 very short and one-sided wins for JD and one by default and in between of that hours of drama, was kinda disappointing. At least if you're interested in long and exciting games and not the Drama and Korean commercials. ^^'
I also had a hunch it was gonna be disappointing but jesus, who would have expected this..
Your analysis is completely wrong though That 3rd cc was soon to be his only base mining many vessels? no, low vessel count, low energy. Pressuring JD's bases with ALL he had. dropship play? he needed every vessel he could get he couldnt have gone dropship. Flash was about to lose.
Well, you just can't be sure JD would've won. And yes, Flash was soon to run out of mins on main and natural, but thats no guarantee that JD would've won. About the Vessels: Flash lost lots of Vessels, but he still had enough to irradiate JD's Defilers to keep them from entering Flahses bases. I think Flash could've at least defended his bases.
My point is just, that even if you think it's okay to declare someone a winner when it's pretty obvious (and even that would be kinda stupid in a MSL Finals) this Game was certainly not one of them.
Its pretty obvious JD had a certain advantage, but why don't just replay the game? It's annoying for the players, the people watching, they players parents (as we witnessed ^^') and the whole SC-scene. I'm sure many people will shout out stuff like "rigged" and stuff like that.
It just doesn't make sense... I mean, what could be the reasons not to replay the game:
1) The Match could go too long: Nothing compared to hours of boring debate and commercials. 2) It's annoying for the palyers: I'm sure JD and Flash were pretty annoyed to wait so long and not knowing what will happen. 3) The people watching don't want to see a regame after a 20min game and they want to see results: Well, that's just a matter of opinion. I would've been pretty happy with a 6-Set best-of-5 MSl Finals. ^^' (Instead, we get 4 Set's with one-sided games and the only interesting game being the one that didn't got finished.)
The main reason (and a valid one at that) is that the map favored terran, and in order to counter it, JD used a very risky opening, which worked, but would be ruined in a rematch since Flash has just seen it.
However, had a rematch been scheduled for a later day (in a week or so), possibly even a different map (a proleague map perhaps, that both players are currently very familiar with), it would eliminate this problem, as both of them can plan whatever strategies they need to and not be placed at a disadvantage. As for the 4th match, it was pretty clear Flash wasn't playing like himself, and its really not his fault (with dad being escorted out, and the drama over the previous match + his team and coaches), its a real shame that the series ended like that.
On January 23 2010 22:40 Ballistixz wrote: but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
With what money? His main was mined out and his nat was almost mined.
What you need to understand is JDs build was a special abusive build designed to combat Flash's style on Odd-Eye. A rematch would be giving the game to Flash. It wouldn't work twice. But it did work once. Also those vessels had no energy. They'd just cast irradiate on ultralisks and were moving about above the defiler as it consumed without casting. With that in mind I think it unlikely he was about to eraser the min line.
he was getting ready to put another base up. but still i dont beleive anyone can call something like that especially when its jaedong vs flash were talking about. like i said u can just look at game 2 and see that jaedong appeared to have the match won but brilliant micro from flash won him that game. who is to say he couldnt pull off the same thing in game 3?
either way it was a BS ending. u can see going into game 4 almost everyone left the stadium and flash was in a desprate attempt to rush a win so he can stay in. jaedong unfortunately predicted he was in a rush to win game 4 after what happened in the last game and went with a rush build himself. and sad to say flash lost the MSL on a very bad note and a bunch of "what ifs" had to of entered his mind with game 3. the end celebration was so damn sad... almost half the ppl left at that point and it honestly didnt feel like a victory at all.
it just ended in a real sad way and this will definably live on in SC history and definably be the subject of huge controversy. it rly sux the way it ended and i beleive this should have been handled differently. but what are you gonna do =/. oh well wats done is done.
he was getting ready to put another base up. but still i dont beleive anyone can call something like that especially when its jaedong vs flash were talking about. like i said u can just look at game 2 and see that jaedong appeared to have the match won but brilliant micro from flash won him that game. who is to say he couldnt pull off the same thing in game 3?
In game two jaedong lost his guardians for nothing, and flash had a huge army. Unlike in third game, Flash's bases were NOT mined out! If it got disconnected nobody would have rewarded the other with a win. Your point would have made sense if jaedong had a few ultras by the time the drops came, but he had nothing. Like 12 lings and thats it, and ultras about a minute away.
This wasn't the case in game three, flashs bases were mined out, his army would not be rebuilt in a moment, his vessel count was low and they had no energy. Jaedong had 3 bases mining well, and a fourth starting to drone up. Flash didn't have dropships because he needed vessels so that jaedong couldnt dark swarm everything he has. Even if he had dropships, what would he drop? marines which don't exist? If he dropped the units used elsewhere, he still wouldnt kill jaedong and he wouldnt have any marines at his main or expansions. There was pretty much a 5-10% chance of flash winning.
Though I do agree that it's a lose-lose no matter what was decided.
Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
On January 24 2010 03:31 Hehlol wrote: Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
I'm amazed with all the controversy that has generated, Jaedong had that win, it's as simple as that, just accept it nerdfans. Why do some of you try so hard to diminish what Jaedong has accomplished?
On January 24 2010 03:31 Hehlol wrote: Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
This isn't that hard people...
Yeah it didn't though. ~_~
This isn't that hard for you.
I can explain simply how JD would win from that position using his 4 bases and 5 gas and the units and tech he had, as well as the 5th base morphing at 1. Would you please go ahead and explain how Flash would win with his one mining base with 6 crystals, his low vessel count and his single group of mnm.
On January 24 2010 04:50 anotheracc wrote: I'm amazed with all the controversy that has generated, Jaedong had that win, it's as simple as that, just accept it nerdfans. Why do some of you try so hard to diminish what Jaedong has accomplished?
Will because they were so used to Flash winning they are in complete shock right now let alone a ton of people were saying Flash was going to 3-0 Jaedong no problem. They are butt hurt right now give it some time and hopefully they relax by then I am just soo happy Jaedong beat flash due to all the fanboys :D
mhmmm... Again sth. about Game3: I think ret made a very good point when explaining that a regame would've been more or less a loss for JD, because he had only planned one build for this very Terran-favoured Map. But in my opinion, his Build was very risky, so if Flash just went for some sort of early aggression (and with odd-eye being a 2-player map and flash very often trying to get an offensive bunker up and just retreating if it doesn't work, especially on Maps where you can easily wall-in your natural) he would've had an easy win.
So, JD did this very risky build, thats the first point, the second one is: If there is a rematch and it had to be on odd-eye, flash has no way of knowing whether JD will just play the same Build again or go for an early rush etc. and i'm sure JD knows how to play a build thats very aggressive early on and if he doesnt win, he can allways return to macro...
wow, Jae Dong deserved the title based on the merits of the first game alone! my goodness, when was the last time a Terran bonjwa was forced to GG from just muta harassing?
I've been a bit out of the loop and this was my first time seeing Flash playing in years apologies Flash fans, but after hearing all the hooplah with how dominating Flash's TvZ is atm, his performance during those 3 games that were played out properly was relatively weak
well lets think outside the box.. did ret think of this ... if a rematch was a auto win for flash .. then replay the game on a different map .. its as simple as that .. why is kespa incapable of making creative decisions... its simple choose a new map that is more or less balanced and has been played an equal amount by both players and let them replay a new game .. i know they will have to come up with unprepared strategies on the spot .. but in a way what would test player prowess and skill more than that...they could even choose a map that had an equal number of games played more or less by both players in the proleague so each would have equal strats revealed .. dun know just an idea
also comebacks ahve and do happen in sc all the time .. to say he had ti won 100 percent is not an accurate statement he was not at his natural breaking it .. he had a 3rd cc built ,, but most likely jaedong takes the game .. however psychological things must also be taken into account .. how can you expect a human being to perform after somthing like this happens .. i know if it was me i would be so unhappy after having a game called like that no matter if i was behind or not , and watching my father get ejected from the stadium .we are human not machines not matter how much a machine flash appears he has emotions to . you cant tell me the following game proceeded in the way it would of from its own volition if the 3rd had not ended in that way.. i was rooting for both players i like them both and would have been happy either way ,,so im not just a flash fanboy getting emo .. i realize its a tough sitution with no perfect answer even in an ideal world becuase in an ideal world flashes fan doesnt *&^^% up like that ..... but how can you punish flash for something his fan , and punish the entire e-sporst community by turning the msl finals into a circus ,, but imo this is a fake result and i dont take it too serioulsy .. which sux for jaedong i think many feel this way .. he for sure had the skills to win without this happening and very well may have .. but now this will go down as the worst msl in history ,, waht nore evidence is needed that there needs to be ap layers union of some sort .. kespa needs to be put in check ,, the players are the value here
On January 24 2010 17:33 chessmaster wrote: also comebacks ahve and do happen in sc all the time .. to say he had ti won 100 percent is not an accurate statement he was not at his natural breaking it .. he had a 3rd cc built ,, but most likely jaedong takes the game .. however psychological things must also be taken into account .. how can you expect a human being to perform after somthing like this happens .. i know if it was me i would be so unhappy after having a game called like that no matter if i was behind or not , and watching my father get ejected from the stadium .we are human not machines not matter how much a machine flash appears he has emotions to . you cant tell me the following game proceeded in the way it would of from its own volition if the 3rd had not ended in that way.. i was rooting for both players i like them both and would have been happy either way ,,so im not just a flash fanboy getting emo .. i realize its a tough sitution with no perfect answer even in an ideal world becuase in an ideal world flashes fan doesnt *&^^% up like that ..... but how can you punish flash for something his fan , and punish the entire e-sporst community by turning the msl finals into a circus ,, but imo this is a fake result and i dont take it too serioulsy .. which sux for jaedong i think many feel this way .. he for sure had the skills to win without this happening and very well may have .. but now this will go down as the worst msl in history ,, waht nore evidence is needed that there needs to be ap layers union of some sort .. kespa needs to be put in check ,, the players are the value here
@chessmaster: you raised some valid points, but you also pointed out there was no perfect answer - so what exactly do you suggest Kespa should have done in such a situation? other than take preventive measures to ensure something like this will never happen again
you were being diplomatic and then you ended by blaming everything on Kespa...very confusing
I'd love to see these games, especially since apparently *something* happened (I don't yet know what, I wanna see for myself first!) but apparently I can't find the VODs. The TLPD doesn't have them linked either. Did anyone get them or were they only on the livestream?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/f9mgwl.jpg)
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Flash < 
Jaedong on Match Point![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/5os18i.png)
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Kal Jan 16th![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2wqx24w.jpg)
can't wait!![[image loading]](http://smashbros.neoseeker.com/w/i/smashbros/5/52/FD.jpg)
