EDIT: What a player list, should be a gg!
Mafia VIII [GG]
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EDIT: What a player list, should be a gg! | ||
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On May 14 2009 16:43 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I'll edit my game description to put the voting thread in here. Didn't notice that thread yet! | ||
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BC wants pardoner. Why? To pardon lynches where the town is blindly following some stupid bandwagon. Under normal circumstances (Games prior to this) sure, this is a completely legitimate point. However this is a veteran's game. We supposedly know better than to fall into those traps. At the very least, we know to pause when people put forward logically consistent arguments. My point is this. BCs reason for wanting pardoner is to me, dodgy. There are obvious reasons as to why mafia would want a player in the pardoner position. I'd caution against voting for any player who specifically asks for that elected role. On to Ver: I think if Ver achieved an elected position, based on his platform he would then have to be both active (said as much) and effective (He has a history of correct decisions and good reads). If he fails in either of those, it would to be be a significant indicator of guilt. So what I'm getting at is that if we elect Ver as mayor, he has basically put himself into the position where he *has* to be both useful and active, or we start lynching. Keep in mind I don't think that's an amazing reason to vote for someone, but it's something I'm going to keep in mind while I wait for the other platforms. Caller: Caller runs every election. Much the same platform each time. Nothing suspicious there that I can see. I'm going out tonight and I'll check back tomorrow to see what has been happening before placing my vote. | ||
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At the very least, we know to pause when people put forward logically consistent arguments as to why we are bandwagoning stupidly* | ||
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I just got back home from a crazy night of revelry and it's 5am and I'm on TL. After doing some catchup (I'm defintely going to have to read these again when I wake up) I think a good combo for town leadership would be Ace/Showtime. I'd be happy with Ver/Mynock swapping in for one of those places, but I'd really like to see Ace/Showtime in an elected position, preferrably both. | ||
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If as you say, mafia were onto you, then they know about the pms already and as such, it hurts you in no way to release them to the town (And the fact that you're already fucked because you roleclaimed dt on day 1). I'm going to pm you now to direct you to this post. If you can't provide these pms which supposedly show you to be found out already within a reasonable time, then I have serious reservations about the legitimacy of your roleclaim. | ||
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I've pm'd him too so he knows about this. | ||
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On May 17 2009 14:20 L wrote: You can't protect everyone all the time. If you're going off last game, the medics were pretty off the wall. Better players means better medics. Lets hope that holds true. And Bockit, for someone that was in IRC with me finding ways to fuck empyrean over during Mafia 2, you're looking at this in an awfully interesting way. Also, why you drunk so much? O_o The difference that I see between this and game 2 was that empyrean came out as dt to force town to vote him into mayor just because he wanted to be mayor. There was no "Mafia have found me I need the protection". Though similar, I see it as different enough to take caution before we decide he's a dt. It's 21st season ^_^ | ||
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Working on the assumption that nemy is a dt, what do we do now? Do we elect him into position instead of one of the big guns currently running for it? I'm going to think about this in the next couple of hours, I wonder what everyone else thinks (about nemy's legitimacy, in light of the last few pages, and what we should do if you think he is legit) | ||
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On May 17 2009 15:03 L wrote: Way to pussy out when you realize you got caught acting like a moron. The tone of your previous post is COMPLETELY inconsistent with your meek reply. You stepped up to accuse. Red colour and all. Take responsibility for pointing the finger at someone who's going to flip townside. Oh, speaking of which. When I die I want someone to post a complete list of my posts. Feel free to go and look how we, as mafia, influenced the discussion. If anything, the current situation, with the 2 man confirmed pms, the lowered mafia count, the lowered KP and the weaker nature of the offices (Mafia 2 office was RIDICULOUS powerful) all point towards less reason for mafia to put themselves under the spotlight. And I'm citing mafia 2 so that people can see how MAFIA will react to this situation, not to say he's 100% blue obv np. I'm saying ignore the situation as it is and remove yourself from your role. Then think about how mafia would act given this situation. How would they act to plant nemy in the first place? How would the react if he's not one of them? The second situation is already covered. You can go look at the case example which has largely been replicated here by a number of players. In mafia 2 though the detective in power was much more powerful than in this game. (unkillable source of Votechecks and rock solid rolechecks) so we were definitely scared about seeing a dt in office and we did our best to make sure he didn't get there. I just went through about 10~ pages of the thread from when emp roleclaimed dt, brought back a bit of nostalgia, I was smiling when I remembered how pissed off he was when randombum flipped mafia after he stole the elected position from emp. But regardless, I think I see where you're going, and yes that does put suspicion on me, however I feel that in this game, a townie is more scared of having a mafia in pardoner position than mafia is scared of having a dt in power. Maybe people disagree with me on this, I'm open to discussion on the topic. | ||
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On May 17 2009 15:19 Caller wrote: you seem to be generalizing a lot, nemy's pms do have some interesting points implying a deeper connection between him and Incognito unless you apparently have more information than those pms? I don't see what is generalised there, nemy did just nonchalantly ask for pardoner instead of mayor, he did roleclaim dt out of nowhere, and he took ages to post about 10 lines of pm material. Btw, in case people are overlooking this (I was guilty of this for a couple of minutes) Incognito is supporting the pms as legitimate, that doesn't mean nemy is detective, it just means they had a pm conversation. I think I'm going to keep my vote on showtime. | ||
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Nemy is not 90% blue. Hell he's not even 30% blue. Dreamflower has pointed out his outright lie. He took the trouble to write 'multiple people' and yet was only able to provide half-arsed pms from one guy, that didn't even match very well how they were described in the first place. I'm not going to repeat Dreamflower's post anymore, go read it. I think he's a traitor, possibly a mafia ploy trying to implicate incognito maybe, but a traitor to me seems more likely. Ace: Well put with the callout. Plexa: What the fuck. MTF: Similarly. | ||
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[spoiler="last tally"] Total - 22 ----- Ver - 6 Mynock - 4 Ace - 3 Showtime! - 3 nemY - 2 BloodyC0bbler - 1 Abstain - 3 Non-voters - 8 ----- Scamp Plexa Camlito Showtime! Infundibulum infinity21 MrBabyHands L[/spoiler] Qatol posted that not long ago, and since then MTF moved off showtime to nemy, and plexa came out of nowhere and voted nemy. Putting Nemy on 4 and showtime down to 3. This puts us in a scary position imo. We have Ver kind of guaranteed mayoral position (that's fine in my books, dunno how you all feel, I tend to disagree with MTF's reasoning, more on this later) and we have Mynock and Nemy on 4, with Ace on 3. Mafia get to pick the pardoner at this rate. On top of this, nemy is looking likely to get office (Mynock technically beats him at this point, but again, mafia can easily tip the scales either way). We need to make it a bit harder for mafia to dictate the final votes. I'm going to move my vote from showtime to mynock (I'd be picking between mynock and ace, and since mynock has a higher chance of beating nemy plus ace endorsed mynock, I'm ok with that) and it will be interesting to see if someone else randomly swaps to nemy to match this, despite what has been happening in the thread. Now to MTF: On May 17 2009 04:45 MTF wrote: Ver is no doubt very intelligent and puts a tremendous effort into the game, but he lacks the ability to get under peoples skin. Showtime, Caller, and Ace have that ability in spades. And that is a larger part of Mafia than I think many players realize. It's not enough to just be able to pin down and call out Mafia members with definitive proof or verbose appeals to the town. You need to make Mafia and the supposed town uncomfortable, mad at you, and you need to be able to be able to throw out random insults or vague accusations without remorse. I think Ver is much too polite for that. I'd rather see him in Pardoner role assisting the mayor, but not having the primary voice. And yet you swap from showtime to nemy? What the fuck? | ||
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On May 18 2009 00:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: incog didn't deny PM conversation did he? Whatever then I still think hes a DT over a traitor and mafia ploy is highly unlikely as said before Just don't even waste time, elect him or make him the first lynch and we can see whose dumb. I will read your flame later Ace I said it before, incognito confirming the pm conversations does not mean he's a DT. It means they had a pm conversation. | ||
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EDIT: That's just my opinion though, if you guys think it's better for one thread that might be better. On second thoughts, I guess it makes sense to have each game in 1 thread (to help with chronology of posts) and voting threads separate. | ||
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Keep in mind I'm not saying you have, rather that if you respond to posts as you go for the next couple of pages you have to catch up, you're going to be covering old ground | ||
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On May 18 2009 07:46 mikeymoo wrote: Lynching Folca was the correct decision, and even as a townie in that game, I still stand by that, and Ace has posted pages and pages since then justifying why you always lynch the guy r/cing. This. | ||
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About pardoner and why I voted mynock before I went to bed. 1) I wasn't aware that he'd asked for pardoner, thanks for pointing that out. 2) I was more concerned with someone other than nemy getting in. I felt the need to put my vote on the candidate most likely to do that and I was unsure if I'd sleep past the voting deadline. So I voted Mynock over Ace because he was a vote up on Ace. I've since changed my vote from Mynock to Ace because I would prefer Ace to get into power, also it moves ver to pardoner, mynock out of the running and ace to mayor, which is significantly different to the votes as they stood for the majority of the election, which I'm hoping if it's disrupted any mafia plans will bring a scurry of vote changing that we can look at after the election is over. Nemy: Why won't you post the pms? I'd understand if it was just one guy asking you to do it, but it's pretty much everyone who's playing. | ||
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On May 18 2009 07:52 Incognito wrote: This what? Is why you swtiched voting to Ace 20 minutes ago and said you were going to post an explanation, only to take 20 minutes to quote someone and write one word??? Because I had to read the thread? There were about 4 pages to catch up on. I changed my vote due to certain pms I received when I logged into tl, based on questions I'd asked certain people before I even changed my vote from showtime to mynock, who hadn't responded until I had already gone to bed. Me quoting a post and saying "This" means I in general echo the sentiments of "This" ie the quote I posted. In other words, I agree with mikeymoo. | ||
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On May 18 2009 07:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The issue being bockit, Ace has gotten random mystery votes, showing signs of mafia possibly pushing him into mayor position. They auto lynch nemy, he in worst case scenario flips blue and town starts the we are fucked boat. I will admit, I haven't checked the vote thread yet, again, I voted after seeing my pms, irrespective of having read the thread, because I couldn't be arsed doing time conversions and just wanted to get my vote in before any vote closing. I'm now going to re-read the last few pages and check vote thread and see if I want to change my vote! | ||
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And yet he's not. Btw incognito, why make a post calling Ver out on this, and then follow it up with "why is nobody commenting on this" and then move your vote from Ace (Believe it or not, I can understand why you are worried about a bandwagon, I'm not personally worried about this, in fact I'm happy that he got the votes but I can understand your worries) to Ver? And if you feel that strongly about Ace, you just put him into pardoner, which most people are willing to agree is a more powerful position than mayor for mafia. This is a large factor in why I put my vote on Ace from Mynock, because it disrupted the current status quo of the election and I wanted to see who made moves to put it back to where it was. | ||
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I especially want to hear more from Ver. | ||
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Incognito, ignore most of my post, I thought you moved from Ace to Ver, not showtime to Ver, that changes a lot. My bad. | ||
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Regardless of the rest of Ver's post (I still have to decide what I think about that) I want an innocent in office and I think that since Ver is pretty much guaranteed at this point (we haven't been able to knock any of his voters off even when trying to stop the nemy train) I'd like to disrupt any potential mafia plans involving Ace/Mynock (the other contenders, not saying you are mafia, rather that you could be, so why not get rid of you both from the equation) and swap in showtime at the last minute. Putting this out there now, if it looks like mynock will get in over ace during the hopeful transition of votes to showtime I'll be swapping back. | ||
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If nemy looks like he's going to get into office then I'll be going back to Ace as well. | ||
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I'm going to leave my vote on Showtime! in case people decide they want to avoid the murkiness surrounding Ver/Ace/Mynock atm and wish to join me on the cleanest candidate around! | ||
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But arguing about whether or not they roleclaimed is sidetracking. I believe that Ver is mafia and this is why: 1) Posting habits. Ver as part of his platform posted this: I don't have anything to say about accountability because I'll make it glaringly obvious that I'm on the town's side. Because being mafia takes so much time I only make the minimum number of posts; when I'm town it's the exact opposite Pretty much unfulfilled. It's day 2 and we haven't even heard the word 'plan' from you. All you've done is give half-arsed defense of yourself. You keep saying 'I've got a bunch to say' and never say it. I could go on but you all get the point. He gave us the signs of what we were to look for if he was innocent, and they haven't arrived. On top of this, I beg you all to take a look at the last game if you have the time. Read Ver's posts. There aren't too many. He's posting in the same style as he was then, and he's posting the same amount he was then. Oh and he was mafia back then too. 2)The traitor Ver to Nemy Here's what I think: you're the traitor Ver on what he thought lucaswoj's role was (post death) I never talk with MM and lucas thought I was the traitor Really? Did you? Cos I could swear you thought nemy was the traitor. Funny thing about traitors in this game. There's only one. Did you change your mind? Why didn't you lynch nemy then? If you thought lucas was the traitor, then nemy must have been mafia (in your mind, as an innocent), because you along with most of us here think that nemy isn't a dt. Oh and did I forget to mention? Let's have a look at your good ol' percentage list. From the 2nd list he posted nnocents list: Caller 97% BC 93% Malongo 85% Tricode 84% Lucaswoj 83% Incognito 80% Fusionsdf 77% Innocent traitor eh? Nice work. 3) Infinity21 You lynched infinity21 out of nowhere. Seriously nowhere. You asked town what they thought out of MTF, Amber[light], MBH. You asked Ace what he thought about Amber[light] or MBH. And then you decided, hey, let's go with this other guy, who not only hasn't been brought up in previous first-day lynch discussions, was only on the bottom of your suspects list, at a measly 70% compared to a bunch in high 90s and 80s. You're so suspicious of Mynock and you still went for infinity21. Nice. I'm pretty damn confident Ver is mafia. And I'm voting to lynch him, and I urge you all to do so as well. I've written this in an emotional rather than analytical style because I want to elicit responses. To see who comes to defend Ver. I'm also tempted to vote for a double lynch, but I'm not sure if that should go ahead quite yet. I'd suggest we wait till the 2nd realtime day of this day till we decide on that, hopefully new info will come up. Now to start some clue analysis. | ||
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On May 20 2009 00:18 dreamflower wrote: MTF, that was beautiful clue analysis, especially given the clues we've had to work with, and I can't describe how sad I am to be one of the suspects you listed. Here are my responses for your post. Mafia A I agree, I like infundibulum for this one too. He's the only player whose profile contains anything medically-related; I couldn't find anything else about medicine, syringes, needles or even drugs. (Of course, this might also be influenced by the fact that in Chuiu's game, someone was killed with a syringe and everyone assumed it was infundibulum, including me.) Furthermore, the emphasis on sounds in the later part of the paragraph really suggests infundibulum, whose profile is full of musical references and the Hammerstein quote. The only other potential flaw I could think of is that syringes are not funnel-shaped (I hope) or at least are usually thought of as cylinders with only a small funnel at the very end near the needle. However, that was an extremely minor part of your analysis. Mafia B Again, this is fantastic analysis, and damn, I wish I weren't the suspect you arrived at in the end. Linking the quote at the end was excellent, though I would argue that the answer to mikeymoo's prayers would not have been an end to his sore throat, but his life. So, in that sense, his prayers were not answered. The behavior of the Mafia seems to indicate being easily distracted and not perceptive, as shown by his watching LucasWoJ's death instead of going after mikeymoo right away and then totally missing mikeymoo. However, he does exhibit focus when he hunts after mikeymoo, so it's not as though he were totally devoid of mental processes. He just misses details, even glaring ones. Someone sleepwalking or daydreaming would probably have completely wandered off or forgotten, instead of being distracted for a moment before hunting mikeymoo down quite attentively and thoroughly. Because of the focused brutality of the killing and the fact that the killer misses details, I might tentatively suggest Heavonearth. His quote at the end includes a link that reads "http://l0lhi.mybrute.com." I didn't click on the link, but the words "my brute" does fit the way mikeymoo was killed. In addition, his profile also includes a series of letters (rather like an eye chart), followed by the sentence: "What's the pattern? no really tell me, i have no clue :O" This suggests someone who doesn't notice patterns or details, like mikeymoo's killer. Mafia C Good Lord, but that is a horrible way to die. I thought of Ver as well, because of his rape quote and the rake up the butt. My only point of disagreement is that it's Fishball who died, and I remember that Ver said he's always had a hard time reading Fishball. I don't know if that has changed, but I'm not sure he normally would have been able to discern his role. For my part, I admit I immediately thought of MrBabyHands because of his quote. Just because it references both, ahem, butt holes and manliness, and the only other thing that can be used to make clues for him would be his name. I'm doing some clue analysis of my own and just started going through your stuff now, just a note about Mafia C: it's not particularly relevant that fishball died. Whoever figured out that fishball is a medic isn't necessarily the one who killed him. And if it was, it's just chance. | ||
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Day 1: Person 1: Nothing I can really define as a clue. Day 1: Person 2: unable to locate the speaker a blur as his assailant leapt at him Traits: Nothing I can really pull out of this Day 2: Person 1: one of them screamed and charged at LucasWoJ attacker pulled out a syringe and slammed it into LucasWoJ's right eye The assailant bellowed again the only sounds left were guttural yells Traits: Yelling, screaming, bellowing, loud noises, syringe Day 2: Person 2: initially transfixed by the brutal killing suddenly remembered that there was another target and began the hunt couldn't find anyone After passing the set of curtains with a conspicuous pair of shoes sticking out for the third time ~ he heard mikeymoo sneeze (Red herring I think) Traits: Short attention span/memory, easily distracted Day 2: Person 3 the man calmly following him the other man surveyed the inside of the shed "This would have been a lot less painful for you if you had faced me like a man. You need to develop a stronger backbone; I am going to help you with that," ~ quipped the Hitman (Possibly a literary device, unusual word though to describe the assailant (unusual in the context of this and previous games)) He then shoved the rake in his hand into Fishball from behind, handle first, as far as he could. Traits: Meticulous, calm, controlled, rape. EDIT: I edited the title of the first person, accidentally listed as 'Person 2' | ||
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So town, our job today is to pick which candidate we think is the mafia candidate, and remove him. Please distribute your votes between Ace or Ver. Doing anything else hurts the town at this stage. I strongly suggest you vote Ver for reasons I've posted earlier in the thread, but I'll leave that to your discretion. | ||
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I just changed the format to make my bolded bit stick out more. | ||
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On May 20 2009 12:09 fusionsdf wrote: can someone say why its definitive that one is mafia? I don't trust either, which is why I didnt vote for them, but I missed what changed between people trusting them and voting them in and people saying they must be mafia. Why did people trust them in the first place? Why dont they trust them now? I made a post earlier (5 or 6 pages back I believe) about my reasons regarding Ver. Turns out point 2 of 3 was based on a misreading of a quote, however 1 and 3 were both strong on their own. In short: Ver is posting like he was last game (as mafia) he promised activity/planning/usefulness and he's bringing none of it. He keeps saying he has a lot to say and says nothing. He was incredibly dodgy on the infinity21 lynch. He asked town about 3 people, asked Ace about 2 people, both (I think) of which were part of the 3 people, and then picked infinity21 who was both outside the 3-4 people up for discussion and according to Ver's own posts, nowhere near as suspicious as some other people he has been calling out (Read: Mynock). | ||
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We lynch Ver tonight. We vigi someone tonight based on what we learn from ver's death. Mafia kp is down to 2. A likely scenario, not definite but nowhere near impossible. | ||
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On May 20 2009 12:24 LTT wrote: If 2 vigis stack hits, we will be sure to refund the hit of the second to send it in. Also all townies will be resurrected and be given 6 additional night lives. I deserved that. | ||
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And no shit, if Ver flips red it doesn't mean Ace is innocent, I never said that. | ||
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Ok, after consideration, I'll go along with your plan. On the condition that you agree to vigi'ing Ver tonight, giving us 2 fresh hits tomorrow if the vigi is willing to go along with us. | ||
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You also mention the vote train on Ace signifying Ace's guilt. To use your own (valid) arguments from earlier, this is similar to the pardoner case. Just because a mafia pardoner pardons a person, doesn't make the person mafia. Just because mafia voters vote for a mayor, doesn't make that person mafia. I'm sure you can work out the reasons why this is a potentially viable tactic, the discussion we are having now is proof of that. And yet you keep ignoring this, I'm not the first one to bring this up, Ace has already brought it up. You simply repeat the almost-mantra that you've got "you have dodgy voters, you must be mafia". Taking those arguments out, removes most of the suspicion you've been building up against Ace, almost forcing the argument. Ace has made the point I just made multiple times and each time you ignore it, trying to force the issue. I sent you a pm earlier, and I said I'd post it if Ace exhibited a certain behaviour. Original Message: I too feel that the argument between Ace and Ver back during the election was terribly contrived. I do want to see Ace killed tonight (as in, before I agreed to your plan in the thread), part of the reasoning behind my posts in the thread was that I wanted to see how Ace responded to my defense of him, and your accusation. He just sat back, which to me indicates more that he's mafia, as they are usually willing to let Town do their work for them (in this case me arguing for him). I'm pretty confident now I've agreed to the plan you're proposing, we're going to see Ace come rocking into the thread "What the fuck is wrong with the town" etc. If he does, I'm going to post this pm btw. You might notice that I didn't post the pm and call Ace out as mafia. His defence of your accusations were rational and definitely fit the defence of somebody out to help the town, whereas your accusations kept trying to put words in Ace's mouth (the working with from support deal which I just covered for example). On top of all this, let's have a look at the people voting for Ace. We've got nemy, our traitor/dt/mafia, we've got Plexa, our resident "vote and never post" mafia, and we've got dreamflower, who by your own reasoning you believe is mafia. To take your own advice from earlier in the thread, step back and be objective. If you were mafia, what would you do in the situation where the town is lynching an innocent? You'd go along with it, that's what I'd do, and what mafia have been doing in every game. These all combined to make me believe Ace has a much, much lower chance of being mafia than my initial 50%. Which brings us to your plan of lynching Ace first to min/max our deaths/kills/wasted lynches w/e. It only matters to kill Ace if we think he is mafia. Since it's getting less and less likely that this is the case, we return to lynching Ver, someone we can all agree is exhibiting the most obvious mafia behaviour in this game (Maybe 2nd to Plexa). TLDR L's plan is based on the concept that our pardoner is mafia I have shown L's arguments regarding Ace being mafia to be incredibly forced. This could be either because he is a townie who doesn't want to admit he is wrong, or because he is mafia. Ver is much, much more suspicious than Ace We don't want to repeat the mistakes of last game Lynch Ver | ||
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Premise 1: I have no issue with this. Essentially it's saying, if Ace / Ver are mafia, we gain lots of information about their voters. As a premise, that's true. How we work from it I think is where we are disagreeing. You are saying we should kill both Ace and Ver. I'm willing to give Ace the benefit of the doubt based on my observations of his behaviour. If we lynch a candidate and they're innocent we get little in terms of information from the votelist (Your red herrings point). I'm at this stage willing to say I think Ace is *more likely* to be innocent than guilty. Enough so that I'd rather not lynch him over Ver tonight. Premise 2: I think this is irrelevant as I still haven't seen anything to convince me that any of the bgs claimed to anyone. Everyone knows by now the perils of doing so. They'd gain absolutely nothing out of doing so, it makes no sense. Premise 3: Same as premise 1. I agree with the premise. It only comes into play if they flip red. Again, I'm not sure enough Ace is red to be putting our hit on him at the moment. Give me better arguments than "he had a dodgy voting pattern behind him" (easily a potential red herring), or "he was working with mynock and ver", give me solidish clues (Hardware one I'm not a fan of). If you can give me solid evidence that he is mafia, then sure. Otherwise I'm inclined to disagree on the actions we should take based on this premise. Premise 4: Yes, this is true, again, if he is red. As you say, a lot of people accept that there is a red in office. Most people are pretty sure it's Ver. Not many are agreeing with you at this stage that it's Ace. Yes it's possible they are both mafia. Premise 5: This is true. I'm going to run some numbers, this is how I see it. If we lynch Ace and he is green, we've essentially wasted 1 kp of our total x kp. We traded 1 kp for 1 non-mafia If we lynch Ace and he flips red, our kp is unchanged. We've successfully traded 1 kp for 1 mafia. If we don't lynch Ace and he is green, our kp is unchanged. If we don't lynch Ace and he is red. He pardons someone as he dies on a double lynch and we lose 1 kp of our total x kp (it was pardoned in the only circumstance that a mafia pardoner is ever really going to use his power with a negative effect on the town, double lynch with him included). To me it looks like we end up even on both ways. It's possible mafia get 1 extra hit on us if when the time a mafia pardoner gets killed in a double lynch of which the other suspect is a mafia, and we need to kill both to knock their kp down a notch. Do you see how obscure this situation is? There is no need to lynch Ace now. Vote to lynch Ver | ||
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On May 20 2009 21:57 L wrote: Haha, wait, you were on our team last game and were the first instance of red herring dropping. Why would you ignore that in your analysis? The red herring dropping was part of my analysis. It works both ways. You can implicate and remove suspicion with red herring dropping. I'm saying that the people who voted suspiciously for Ace could very likely have been red herring dropping. That there was suspicious activity behind Ace's vote train is not a reason to lynch Ace. It is a reason to look at the vote train if he dies and flips red. | ||
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On May 21 2009 09:12 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Yeah, Ver's absence is unusual. It's possible he's been really, busy; he did mention defending his honors thesis or something like that. But he hasn't even popped in to just leave a remark since right after the day post These are exactly the same stunts Ver pulled last game, don't fall for them! He might legitimately have an honours thesis to defend, I'm not going to make a call on that. What I am going to make a call on is that he promised activity in his electoral platform, I'll even quote him. I don't have anything to say about accountability because I'll make it glaringly obvious that I'm on the town's side. Because being mafia takes so much time I only make the minimum number of posts; when I'm town it's the exact opposite. Read that again, look at his posting habits (both sparsity and content) and then try to tell me his absence is merely unusual | ||
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Doesn't mean I'm not suspicious, I'm just saying it matches his behaviour as far as I know it. Plexa on the other hand.. If you want to know how active Plexa can be, go check out Mafia 2. It's the exact opposite of this time around. Dunno what to call him yet, but it doesn't look good for him | ||
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[11:01] Bockit: oh I meant to ask you [11:01] Bockit: are we allowed to ask you for examples of say [11:01] Bockit: dt red herring pms [11:01] Bockit: or [11:01] Bockit: medic prot pms [11:01] Qatol: yes It is a simple matter for Nemy to have asked qatol for the pm template, and then filled it in. | ||
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Nemy could have asked qatol for the template for the cluecheck failure pm, the red herring picture means nothing | ||
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I just don't think it likely atm. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask people to make the swap to Ver. At this stage it's Ace 7 - 11 Ver, ver's vote counts for 3, making it 10 - 11. All that has to happen at that point is for a mafia voting for ver to swap to Ace, or a couple of the mafia abstaining/not voting/voting for others to 'finally decide to go to Ace' after a massive post from ver that will tip the lynch vote. Don't let mafia control the day 2 lynch! | ||
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Ver's already implied what his defense is going to be in his previous post. It's going to be something along the lines of 'You all sucked, so I ignored you, and the thread', 'I'm really disappointed', 'I was too busy to try and correct misconceptions'. If that sits with you as a legitimate defense then by all means, wait. If it doesn't, I'd recommend voting for him now. | ||
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Ver essentially posted another % mafia list padded with words this time. No reasoning, at all. The post train immediately after ver posted of half the inactives/people who have been 'holding back their votes' Be back later! | ||
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Ugh I'm trying to catch up on the thread since going to lunch before lynch time and I am amazed at the bandwagon that mafia are trying to form here. Mafia are starting a massive bandwagon against Ace to save Ver. They've timed it so it happens right before voting closes to try and prevent town from stopping it DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN. | ||
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Ver is saying that he will ask Qatol to modkill him if he doesn't flip. Qatol has said that he would modkill him if he asks. NOT THAT THERE WAS A DEAL. STOP ACTING LIKE THERE IS ONE. | ||
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On May 21 2009 13:10 L wrote: It isn't proof. I would throw up 1-2 people after some legit players tipped the voting too. Either way, look at the RESULT. I DONT KNOW ACE IS INNOCENT. NEITHER DO YOU. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. Do you admit that is clearly a bandwagon being formed by mafia here? | ||
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On May 21 2009 13:19 L wrote: I'll know when Ace/Ver flip. There's a bit too much going on without those simplifying pieces of information, but yes, there seems to have been a bandwagon formed today. We'll just find out for whom tomorrow morning. Really? You can't tell by the fact that Ver posts the most useless, time-wasting defense ever (Veteran Mayor wow) and then people like Plexa, who have been AFK THE ENTIRE GAME post about 3 times each stating how much they agree with Ver, as if they've magically been following the game suddenly. And you think that there is 'maybe' a bandwagon? You need more information? | ||
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What has he been saying? Have you been in contact with Showtime? What has he been saying? Have you been in contact with Bloodycobbler? What has he been saying What do you think about Nemy? Why did you run for mayor as a veteran when veteran is the worst role to run for mayor? | ||
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Moving on. I think I need to reread the entire thread. Sort of play it from the mafia perspective. I'm pretty demotivated tonight so I'll get to it tomorrow at uni. In the meantime, we need to help her work out who she wants to hit or it going to be wasted. I really am at a loss right now who to suggest.. could we get some discussion on this? | ||
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Another point against 0cz3c is that when he's mafia he likes to post stupidly long posts that have close to 0 actual content to distract the town, which I believe a few pages ago might have been an example of. I don't trust my mafia-judgement atm enough to say it's lynch worthy but I figured I'd put that out there for everyone to discuss. I'm still going through the thread again. L's earlier post sums up my feelings on the matter quite well. I agree with vigi-ing MBH, we don't really have a better target and Dreamflower needs to use her hit before she's killed. | ||
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On May 22 2009 09:55 0cz3c wrote: You might believe, Bockit? Doesn't that suggest that you haven't read it? Yup. yes it does. "but I figured I'd put that out there for everyone to discuss." Thanks. We aleady discussed it. Why bring it up again? Because mafia are hoping to use me as the next object to destroy the town? We fell for it with Ace and Ver; don't you dare attempt to do that here again. I defended myself adequately BloodyCobbler. Placing suspicions again on me suggests that you're foolish or that you're in the mafia. Really just one or the other. You said your specialty is in clues? Then why the hell do you suck so terribly this game at discerning the meaning of clues? Maybe contribute instead of covering up? Hmmm? I don't have to speak for my innocence more than I already have. Rather, I think you better start defending yourself. >.> No, I did read it. My language choice is saying that I don't trust my judgement at the moment, after what happened during the votes yesterday. That's why I'm putting it out for others to discuss. | ||
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The anti-MBH conspiracy What do we know about MBH? - L was working with him - MBH was instrumental in regards to Caller's death. - L trusted MBH - L was town-aligned With only 6 mafia, I sincerely doubt MBH is even willing to sacrifice one mafia player (Caller) to gain trust with the town. At this stage, mafia don't even need it, town had no idea what was going on and mafia were clearly in a great position. At this stage I am confident MBH is innocent. On top of this, he's called out 0cz3c, another huge suspect (which I'll get to later on in this post). If I doubt a mafia player was willing to sacrifice 1 mafia, there's no way they're willing to sacrifice 2. So I'm operating under the assumption that MBH is innocent. It's clear from the day 3 morning post that mafia were out to take out an inner circle. L was working Dreamflower and MBH. Both L and DF were on the mafia hitlist, and as far as mafia were concernd MBH was going to be taken care of by a vigi. So not needing to take him out, I am guessing that mafia decided to try and snipe a potential blue at the same time, which explains the hit on infundibulum instead of MBH. Then 1 minute before the day post, we find out something has changed. We know now that it was DF changing her hit from MBH to Caller. We also know that mafia didn't change their hitlist. This is the only reason mafia didn't hit MBH. They didn't need to, they'd already convinced the town to vigi him. Since morning, there has now been a move to get MBH lynched. Despite the fact that he was instrumental in our first mafia kill. Mafia weren't successful getting him vigi'd, now they're trying to lynch him. 0cz3c He gets his own section, he's that suspicious. Points I have made before (MBH has also used some of these in his analysis) - Brother to lucaswoj: If anyone makes sense for reading lucas as a potential blue it's him. The hit on lucas doesn't make sense otherwise. This works in reverse too. As mafia, he would be scared of lucas because he would have a high chance of finding out 0cz3c is mafia. If you had a twin brother who wasn't mafia, you'd want to kill him asap. - Long useless posts: 0cz3c as mafia last game specifically made his posts long and full of useless content so as to distract the town. We've seen a couple of these in the last few pages, and also earlier in the game. New Points: - MBH's clue analysis. - The modkill request: Where Ver used the modkill as a removal of himself from the game when he knew he was going to be causing more problems than he solved if he stayed, 0cz3c is trying to use it to prove his innocence, and also bludgeon the town into voting for MBH. Doing this doesn't help the town at all and just causes more chaos. He's been called out on this but has seemed to ignore it. - Fucking nuts defense: His defense screams mafia. Trying to accuse the accuser and not really dealing with the accusations. He's my #1 suggestion for the lynch. Caller Some very interesting posts by Caller. On a sidenote: I would say one of Caller's tells is that he gets 'chummy' with people who he's associated with/are on his side. I've seen it in a few games now. + Show Spoiler + That being said, here are my top suspects. MBH/Camlito: Clearly somebody has been bluesniping. Why else would they hit mikeymoo and Lucas and Fishball, both of whom were trying to stay dl? The only people I know in the game that are still capable of doing that are those two. Dreamflower: While behaviorally, dreamflower isn't that suspicious, the clue analysis fit in pretty well. However, the clue analysis may have fit too well, and that usually means it's not quite right. Combined with the vigilante roleclaim, I think we should wait on this and see if a vigi hit does go through. Showtime! BC made a clue post a while back that pointed really, REALLY well to Showtime!. Combined with MTF's above analysis about us middle-of-the-roaders, I think we should keep an eye on him. I'm trying to get nemy to do a RC/CC on him, so we'll wait on that to see if it goes through. HeavonEarth: What has he been doing exactly? I haven't seen a single constructive post from him. Not much else to say about this. Malongo: He's been trolling just as much as I have all game, except he hasn't been taking a position except suggesting we should lynch anybody that suspects him. Malongo plays weird like that, but yeah, still a bit strange. And that's all I have to say about that. These ones regarding nemy, really incriminating against nemy. On May 20 2009 06:05 Ace wrote: He's not a confirmed DT stop saying that nonsense. his cluecheck came out the way one would believe. I sincerely doubt that he would intentionally put that "red herring" picture in there for no good reason. On May 20 2009 05:49 0cz3c wrote: Caller should be getting protection from at least one medic, by the way. And I doubt that nemY is mafia. No use to kill a DT, Ace. I don't need protection. Nemy needs the protection most, he's essentially a confirmed dt. On May 19 2009 15:08 Incognito wrote: Show nested quote + Hey guys I just realized...IF THIS IS REAL ANOTHER DT HAS THE SAME PIC. If you are this DT, it is safe to roleclaim to nemY. If you do not have this same pic, nemY is a fraud. I doubt Qatol would send a red herring pic to one DT and not the other. Is my logic flawed here anyone? if the other dt got the clue right he wouldn't send the red herring pic... but i'm pretty sure nemy is safe to roleclaim to. On May 19 2009 14:28 nemY wrote: Ugh fine take it for what it's worth please. Hide nested quote - Original Message: No, that is not a clue. Red herring! http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red-herring_color.jpg ----------------------------------------- Original Message: since i'm running out of time, been busy, and haven't receieved much input i'll ask, is "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." a clue related to any mafia players? If i had more time and had actually been thinking about it, i'd get a better question. Enjoy. I think this is legit lol. Example of aforementioned chumminess On May 19 2009 14:25 nemY wrote: Hide nested quote - On May 19 2009 14:23 Caller wrote: On May 19 2009 14:17 nemY wrote: nothing useful, "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." is red-herring. I'ma die tonight. could we get the actual pm pls? Can you guarantee my protection for tonight? i don't know any medics... but i can offer you my psychic internet anti-mafia wards XD On May 19 2009 14:17 nemY wrote: nothing useful, "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." is red-herring. I'ma die tonight. could we get the actual pm pls? We see that Caller was trying to set nemy up as both a likely innocent, and roleclaimable (as in, we should roleclaim to nemy). Why would mafia do that if he was innocent? I can think of many reasons why they'd do that if he's mafia. And if he was innocent, why haven't they killed him? It's not like they've had hits that were blocked by medics yet. They even had an extra hit that they used on infundibulum instead of nemy. Town at this stage is ignoring him so they can't rely on town to kill him. Who's lynch candidate #2? At the moment, It's a tossup between HeavOnEarth, MTF and nemy for me. HeavOnEarth and MTF are both people I would call major players in the MBH conspiracy, if you want evidence for this, read their posts from Ver getting modkilled through to now, keeping in mind the order in which the posts occur after major events. For example, when DF says she's thinking of going for MBH, we immediately get responses from MBH and HeavOnEarth agreeing with no further input. Also for MTF he keeps trying to link clues to MBH. Keep in mind, nothing by itself is bad, I'm looking at the larger picture here, taking into account the accumulation of actions of players. And finally for MTF I have a very fishy pm from him, where he is almost blatantly trying to fish for a townie circle. Ah, had forgotten about that staff perk. Well, in any case it doesn't really matter whether they asked you to or not to me. As I said, promoting voting activity is only ever a good thing. So, I'm gonna guess you, Showtime, and possibly Plexa have a sort of group thing going on? I only say that because you seemed to be in communication with other people early on in the game, Plexa is inactive in the thread (probably hiding under town's suspicion) and Showtime likes to build up stuff from behind the scenes. No need to really answer me, of course. I'm just trying to develop some skills beyond doing cluework in the game, so thought I'd take a guess. We also have some clue analysis from an associate, MTF is an acronym for Musculoskeletal Transplant Foundation. Works pretty well for a rake up the arse and replacing the spine one might say. But going over his post history, for every really suspicious thing he's done, he's also done something that helps the town. Which is kind of perfect mafia play really.I can't decide what I think about him at the moment, so I suggest we wait on MTF, and instead lynch HeavOnEarth as #2 for a combination of the reasons mentioned by previous posters and also because his defense was mafia-esque. While writing this showtime posted that pm log and commentary. Based on that plus the stuff that's been brought up against tricode already by BC and showtime! before, I think tricode is as good, possibly better lynch candidate than heavon today, as we have both clues and behaviour. So I'm going to vote 0cz3c and tricode, along with a double lynch. I'd urge people to vote similarly, but I'd be happy if heavon was killed instead of tricode. 0cz3c must die though. | ||
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Before Ver died, he let me know that you were an unsubstantiated DT. If this is true, I need you to do a RC on Bockit-Ver highly suspected him. If you aren't a DT, wrong number. Sincerely, ~a noob Before Ver died, he let me know that you were an unsubstantiated medic. If you are, please protect Scaramanga tonight. I have a feeling he will be hit as I think mafia is blue sniping. If not, wrong number. Sincerely ~asshole vigilante Look like a mafia template for fishing for blue anyone? | ||
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the first one was from tricode in showtime's post the second one was from malongo in his own post | ||
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0cz3c, nemY, MTF, fusionsdf (star clues), Plexa, heavonearth | ||
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On May 24 2009 12:34 MTF wrote: Yes, it's close to the end of the lynch anyway, so it's not going to swing votes. I just want to clarify here: You are a suspect to me, I don't think you're lynch worthy today as we have 3 better candidates in my mind (HOE, 0cz and Tricode). I'll post my stuff once the lynch goes through, don't want to distract the town at the moment. | ||
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In other news, at least we got one! Mafia are down to 2kp. Time to re-re-evaluate what I'm doing here... | ||
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I just spent 4-5 hours working with showtime to prove mtf ocz3c and heavonearth were guilty, so so so taken in. Goddamn hahaha | ||
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On May 24 2009 14:55 Fishball wrote: I knew all the roles right after I died. Then I read your posts for a couple days, and while we were playing evony, do you know how hard it was for me to keep the truth away from you ? You were too off, haha. I can imagine. I just want to know how badly showtime was laughing irl during our msn convo this morning/last night (Depending on what timezone you're in) | ||
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