Well, that was an interesting game. I learned a lot, especially about reading between the lines of people's posts, though I have a long, long way to go. Especially with figuring out roles and analyzing behavior.

After reading Chuiu's post, I feel better about my clue analysis being completely wrong most of the time, though, because I'm not sure I even understand a lot of those connections now (aside from some of the MoC and Snet ones) and definitely wouldn't have gotten them from the first reading.

Next time, though, let's have a game with experienced players distributed a lot more evenly between town and Mafia. For example, all of Ace's list of 12 were townies (and many of them were blues), not to mention semioldguy and Fishball. I know the roles were randomly assigned, but I can't help thinking that the resulting mass of inexperience and inactivity on the Mafia side doomed them a lot more than any ingenuity on the town's part (the exception being MrBabyHands, whom I'm starting to think possesses magical analytical powers).

Humbug

United States264 Posts

April 03 2009 16:16 GMT

#1663

Bleh, mafia got ripped apart pretty hard this game --;;. Clue analysis was very spot on, a mafia member was brought up in every analysis :\. gg

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

April 03 2009 16:50 GMT

#1664

So, does everyone think this game was balanced or imbalanced for town... or did they win merely because of luck and mafia's relative inexperience?

Ace

United States16096 Posts

April 03 2009 16:56 GMT

#1665

Mostly because Mafia was inexperienced and town had a lot of luck.

semioldguy

United States7488 Posts

April 03 2009 17:09 GMT

#1666

I think the format is mostly balanced, but the town set itself favorably at the beginning.

When I was a Detective I realized pretty much right away that I wanted to be elected to one of the positions so that I could immediately role-claim. DT's exist to want to claim their roles, since their information is most useful to the town when they can share it publicly. Normally this would put a big, fat target on their head, but the automatic protection from the BG's meant that I could role-claim myself much more easily.

None of the other roles want to role claim nearly as badly or share their information until they are on the chopping block.

Phrujbaz

Netherlands512 Posts

April 03 2009 18:24 GMT

#1667

What did MBH do this game? How the hell did he figure out Fishball was a vigi?

Qatol

United States3165 Posts

April 03 2009 18:35 GMT

#1668

MoC you took a pretty big gamble on me by not double hitting night. I figured I had about a 50/50 of getting a medic night 1 and the plan was to have me incarcerated day 2. We were almost positive that the hit was coming, and if I survivied, it meant that we triggered the medic plan right away. I guess you had to gamble though. It was decently likely that Ver would get 2 medics also which was why he was second on the incarceration list. Why didn't you ever try to put a hit on Ace? Did you just figure that he would be protected every night?

I agree that you didn't have many players in the mafia who could have run for office on name value alone. Because of that, I think you probably should have proposed some sort of plan to try and get into office Ace-style. I was actually kinda worried you would pull something like that, which was why I helped BC propose the medic plan he ran on. Medics, vigis and incarceration were the only ways I could think of to confirm innocents in this game until after the GF died.

Funny thing to note: if Pyrr had been confirmed after he took his hit and survived, that hit confirmed MBH as well. MBH was incarcerated but that hit accounted for all of the mafia hits. The mafia were at a population where if they lost 1 member, their KP was decreased. Since it was not, MBH HAD to have been town.

The biggest reason this game seemed imbalanced in my view was that the DTs managed to get in contact with each other really early. Coordinated (secret) DTs with a mouth that cannot be killed is a HUGE blow to the mafia. Once that happened, the game was basically over. This involved a lot of luck and the mafia being pretty passive. The game probably would have seemed a lot more balanced if that hadn't have happened.

I'm pretty surprised that most medics decided not to follow Ace's zodiac plan. I'm curious why they decided to do that. Could you guys explain please?

Ra.Xor.2

United States1784 Posts

April 03 2009 18:38 GMT

#1669

GG, millers really served no purpose, hopefully next game is more balanced.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

April 03 2009 18:58 GMT

#1670

Well since I was a medic I protted MBH first night. I figured since Ver was more well known surely all the other medics would go for him or someone else.

I had a discussion with MBH and we both pegged SoG as a highly probable DT. The way he was trying to win the election ( he never fully committed to any plan but tried to stay active and in the limelight) made me think he had something to share. Then Ver mentioned he revealed he was a blue and that was that. If I was a DT I would have acted in somewhat the same way.

To MoC: you don't need name value to win an election. SoG has never played on Tl.Net before and he got elected. Also, not many people even tried to get elected. It's much better to try all out than let 2 townies get those spots. Pretty much everything that could have went wrong this game for Mafia did go wrong and it started with the elections :/

Qatol

United States3165 Posts

April 03 2009 19:19 GMT

#1671

Oh your protections made total sense to me. You were one of the players who recognized MBH as a significant asset for the town early (AND you followed the plan because he was on the list). In fact, if I were mafia, you would have outsmarted me with that prot. I had MBH pegged as a strong player that probably wouldn't get protection UNLESS either you or versatile was medic.

JL13

United States1384 Posts

April 03 2009 20:27 GMT

#1672

yay, town victory! Nice job to everyone who played.

Infundibulum

United States2552 Posts

April 03 2009 21:06 GMT

#1673

good game guys. it was fun not using my only kill!

Chuiu

3470 Posts

April 03 2009 21:22 GMT

#1674

I just want to point out that every single person lynched that was mafia had been role/clue checked ahead of time and everyone not mafia wasn't.

|16:24| qatol: incorrect statement! RoL was lynched, was mafia, and was neither rolechecked nor cluechecked!

nemY

United States3119 Posts

April 03 2009 22:00 GMT

#1675

Very nicely done town, SoG's a fucking hero... kinda glad he got mayor over me, although I still wanna be mayor some day (even though i'll do nothing) =(

Fishball

Canada4788 Posts

April 03 2009 23:29 GMT

#1676

On April 04 2009 07:00 nemY wrote:
although I still wanna be mayor some day (even though i'll do nothing)

Don't think that is a good statement to help your dreams come true

Malongo

Chile3472 Posts

April 04 2009 01:03 GMT

#1677

cannon fodder townies ftw!

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

April 04 2009 13:53 GMT

#1678

When is the next game starting ^_^

Bockit

Sydney2287 Posts

April 04 2009 15:34 GMT

#1679

Thanks Chuiu and Incognito for the game

Was a fun game, townies felt a little op, but I think that was more a case of various townies (mainly SoG

) picking up the flame and keeping the thread incredibly active and on topic. I think this will become less of an issue as we all get better at the game though, with mafia more able to hide their 'mafia-ness' while being incredibly active and seemingly helpful.

If I was to take anything from this though, rolechecks are still a tad OP imo. Maybe drop back to 2 detectives?

Fishball

Canada4788 Posts

April 04 2009 17:26 GMT

#1680

I'd prefer keeping them at 3 (at the very least) and have a new rule set for rolechecks.
eg. not able to use the power twice in a row etc.

If we only had 2 DT's, and Mafia got a lucky break and killed one early on, that would hurt the town a bit too much.